Junta wants reforms done quickly

[heybruce]

In other words, until there is a government that meets your standards on these 14 principles of democracy, you consider a military coup acceptable. Even though a coup is the antithesis of democracy.

I don't know how many democracies there are around the the world that need to be toppled for failing to meet your standards. but I'm sure there are many. I suspect that in most of them the people aren't even aware that they need a coup to straighten their government out.

My standards? No, democratic standards mate. Democratic.

Unless all the points that I didn't reference ( google it mate) in my previous post are democratic to your standards?

No transparency in water hearings. So your standards say that is democratic?

No transparency in rice scheme. So your standards say that is democratic?

Threatening to behead yourself if an accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, convicted criminal unelected fugitive is not back in Thailand. So your standards say that is democratic?

That unelected man running the PTP. So your standards say that is democratic?

Vote for us or we won't give you what you want. Essentially saying "I won't advance Thailand because you support the other guys" So your standards say that is democratic?

It goes on and on and on.

Democracy was not lost because it was never there so the Junta did not remove democracy. They are restorers of it.

The real coup happened in 2011. 1 second after the PTP won the election. The Junta are reversing that coup and putting Thailand back on the road to democracy.

The PTP won a monitored election deemed legitimate. Something that no military junta can claim. For the rest I'll tell you what I've repeatedly told rubl, there is nothing on your list of PTP actions that could not, and should not, have been dealt with by the courts or by the voters in a new election.

You think the military is restoring democracy? Like they did after the 2006 coup?

there is nothing on your list of PTP actions that could not, and should not, have been dealt with by the courts or by the voters in a new election.

Agreed. The coup was to restore stability. It did that. I would say it will restore democracy, but for that to happen it must have been there before. The Junta will bring democracy to Thailand.

The courts will continue on with there job and the next election will follow next year.

Glad we can agree on one thing anyway.

Your having reading problems again. Check the verb tense of my statements. The problems should have been dealt with by courts and elections without a coup.

Your statement "The Junta will bring democracy to Thailand." seems wildly optimistic. On what do you base this optimism?

[djjamie]

My standards? No, democratic standards mate. Democratic.

Unless all the points that I didn't reference ( google it mate) in my previous post are democratic to your standards?

No transparency in water hearings. So your standards say that is democratic?

No transparency in rice scheme. So your standards say that is democratic?

Threatening to behead yourself if an accused terrorist, accused mass murderer, convicted criminal unelected fugitive is not back in Thailand. So your standards say that is democratic?

That unelected man running the PTP. So your standards say that is democratic?

Vote for us or we won't give you what you want. Essentially saying "I won't advance Thailand because you support the other guys" So your standards say that is democratic?

It goes on and on and on.

Democracy was not lost because it was never there so the Junta did not remove democracy. They are restorers of it.

The real coup happened in 2011. 1 second after the PTP won the election. The Junta are reversing that coup and putting Thailand back on the road to democracy.

The PTP won a monitored election deemed legitimate. Something that no military junta can claim. For the rest I'll tell you what I've repeatedly told rubl, there is nothing on your list of PTP actions that could not, and should not, have been dealt with by the courts or by the voters in a new election.

You think the military is restoring democracy? Like they did after the 2006 coup?

there is nothing on your list of PTP actions that could not, and should not, have been dealt with by the courts or by the voters in a new election.

Agreed. The coup was to restore stability. It did that. I would say it will restore democracy, but for that to happen it must have been there before. The Junta will bring democracy to Thailand.

The courts will continue on with there job and the next election will follow next year.

Glad we can agree on one thing anyway.

Your having reading problems again. Check the verb tense of my statements. The problems should have been dealt with by courts and elections without a coup.

Your statement "The Junta will bring democracy to Thailand." seems wildly optimistic. On what do you base this optimism?

My standards? Democratic standards. That is the bit you ignored. The PTP were not democratic. That is the bit you ignored.

There was nothing the coup took away from the courts my dear friend. They have not done the courts job. The courts are still dealing with the same cases before during and after the coup. Just because you read something on asiancorrespondent doesn't mean you can spout it as fact.

The Junta will be allowing an election after reform. A reform that will allow all the other democratic principles to flourish instead of the only one you harp on. Have you not read the news for the past 3 months. Do you not read this or is this the fake news because it does not suit the agenda.

Now back to the point you refuse to address.

My standards? Democracy standards. That is the bit you ignored.

The PTP are 1/15 democratic. The Junta have already proven they are 1/15th democratic by offering transparency in the form of not passing any projects without NACC scrutiny and shelving projects like the 4G auction because of a lack of transparency. That is one principle a piece so far.If the Junta do one more they are more democratic than the PTP.

Time to leave the bitter past behind as it is this mindset that holds Thailand back. These shadow lurkers that denounce the Junta rejoiced at terrorist attacks, ignored farmers and held voters in contempt.

I embrace the Junta for what they have done because the alternative is too hard to bear and is more in line with Iraq.

[Robby nz]

I think you're smart enough to know that your 52% number is crap, but I'm not certain. You seem oblivious to the fact that Thailand currently doesn't have a democracy. Also, much like many of the shallow thinkers who post here, you seem incapable of accepting that a person can be anti-coup without being pro-Shinawatra.

You are wasting your time here. Any one that thinks a government that is not wanted by 52% of the people is democratic will never understand what democracy is. In his senseless need to have a corrupt government in power he fails to notice that the people are happier corruption is down and the baht is still at the same as it was before the coup. In fact worth more than it was a year ago. Thailand has been given a time schedule on what it's intentions are. None of that give me 6 months crap. Things are changing and it is going to be a new Thailand. They now have a government in that unlike him does not live in the past. It has seen the mistakes of past coups and elections and is taking steps to see that they are not repeated.

There will always be the Shinawatra fans. He did spread a lot of crumbs at his feet but that source is now cut off.

I wonder if heybruce thinks that is democracy when you have a Prime Minister flying around Thailand in a helicopter that is not equipped for night flying so she has her brother a convicted criminal on the run from the law call into the cabinet meetings to relay instructions to them?

Some people are just plain resistant to change no matter how good it is. But the funny thing is when things are going down hill they are OK with that. Go figure.

Were you aware of the fact that the current junta felt Thailand needed a coup for the same reason Myanmar needed a coup in 1988? Perhaps your new Thailand will look like the old Myanmar.

I am well aware of the fact that Thailand has a coup government. It is not a Democracy.

You on the other hand are unaware that it is far better than what you call a Democracy. You pay absolutely no attention to what is going on. You are oblivious to the fact that the junta has laid down a time schedule for returning the country to an elected government.

You are unaware that it is making changes to give people a choice in governing Thailand. You are unaware that it has paid off huge debts to rice farmers that the previous government refused to pay. Instead of paying them they closed down the government causing all kinds off hardship on the rice growers one of the leading exports of the country in fact took them from world leaders to third place and incurred massive debts.

You are unaware that they are taking steps to better the Thai education system. Some of which I disagree but they are better than what Thailand. had. Which of these things did the Burmese do when they had their coup in 1988?

From what you have posted you have no idea of what Democracy is 48% is a cold hard fact. It is a minority and that is what we had running Thailand. defiantly not a democracy.

If you are not pro Thaksin why so much vehemence over the fact that he is not in power any more?

I am pro-democracy and anti-coup, I'm not pro-Thaksin. Are you truly incapable of recognizing the difference?

48% was the voter turn-out in the February election. A great many Thai's did not vote in an election they perceived as pointless since the Democrats dropped out. It was not a referendum on the government. You are twisting reality if to fit your views if you consider it as such.

I am aware that the junta has presented a schedule for a new constitution and election. The constitution will determine how democratic the election and new government will be. I suspect the new constitution will be a significant step back from the democracy allowed in the 2007 constitution, which was a significant step back from the democracy allowed in the 1997 constitution. What in the military's history leads you to believe the military supports democracy?

I am aware the junta has gone on a spending spree. I read uncensored news from outside Thailand. From July 5, 2014, 'The Economist':

"IT DID not take long for Thailand’s ruling junta to discover the first lesson of building popular goodwill: when in doubt, spend. The National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO), the ruling junta led by General Prayuth Chan-ocha, has occupied itself in its first month in office airing out government coffers with a high-powered leafblower. It paid nearly 92.4 billion baht ($2.8 billion) to rice farmers under a subsidy scheme implemented by the deposed government of Yingluck Shinawatra. It is pondering ambitious transport schemes estimated to cost more than $72 billion.

It has also promised to clear a $21-billion backlog of projects awaiting approval from the Board of Investment (BOI)—of which Mr Prayuth has appointed himself chair. At the BOI’s first post-coup meeting, on June 18th, it approved 18 projects worth $4 billion. And after deposing a government founded on economic populism, the NCPO seems to have decided that sometimes mimickry is the better part of governance: it brokered a deal that brought World Cup matches to free TV channels." http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21606327-economy-cannot-shrug-thailands-political-problems-when-teflon-wears

I especially like the sentence: "And after deposing a government founded on economic populism, the NCPO seems to have decided that sometimes mimickry is the better part of governance:"

Where do you get your news from?

I am interested in your so called spending spree.

For a start

The military paid the farmers a debt owed to them by the country an debt that was racked up over many months by the rice scheme.

It can not be in any way be referred to as a spending spree for it was a debt that had to be paid and had been neglected by the PT Govt which had said the money was there to pay out when it was not.

To pay it promptly was by no stretch of the imagination populism rather correcting the neglect of the PT govt which had led to extreme hardship for many farmers to the point of some taking their own lives.

Next

It is pondering ? Hardly a spending spree.

These projects were all to be part of the off budget 2.2 trillion loan that was scrapped and are an start of what is agreed to be a much needed upgrade of infrastructure. Rather than have things done outside budget where there is no accountability the military has suggested these projects be revisited and looked at in a transparent manner and included in successive budgets over the life of each project. What is wrong with that ?

Next.

The projects awaiting approval by the BOI were those which had been held up be the failure of the PT Govt to make provision for these projects to be completed when they dissolved the house. These are projects directly relating to overseas investment which it is generally agreed is needed to boost the economy. And are projects which had already been considered by the BOI and deemed good for the country, they would have been approved anyway by PT or any other Govt. What is so wrong with that ?

World cup on TV.

A company was attempting to hold the country to ransom over the rights, the general said 'stop pissing about just do it people want to watch' no political duck shoving and money in anyone's back pocket

Now I see the company is going to have to pay most of the money back.

Who wrote that piece for the Economist ?

Robert Amsterdam by any chance ?

[heybruce]

The PTP won a monitored election deemed legitimate. Something that no military junta can claim. For the rest I'll tell you what I've repeatedly told rubl, there is nothing on your list of PTP actions that could not, and should not, have been dealt with by the courts or by the voters in a new election.

You think the military is restoring democracy? Like they did after the 2006 coup?

there is nothing on your list of PTP actions that could not, and should not, have been dealt with by the courts or by the voters in a new election.

Agreed. The coup was to restore stability. It did that. I would say it will restore democracy, but for that to happen it must have been there before. The Junta will bring democracy to Thailand.

The courts will continue on with there job and the next election will follow next year.

Glad we can agree on one thing anyway.

Your having reading problems again. Check the verb tense of my statements. The problems should have been dealt with by courts and elections without a coup.

Your statement "The Junta will bring democracy to Thailand." seems wildly optimistic. On what do you base this optimism?

My standards? Democratic standards. That is the bit you ignored. The PTP were not democratic. That is the bit you ignored.

There was nothing the coup took away from the courts my dear friend. They have not done the courts job. The courts are still dealing with the same cases before during and after the coup. Just because you read something on asiancorrespondent doesn't mean you can spout it as fact.

The Junta will be allowing an election after reform. A reform that will allow all the other democratic principles to flourish instead of the only one you harp on. Have you not read the news for the past 3 months. Do you not read this or is this the fake news because it does not suit the agenda.

Now back to the point you refuse to address.

My standards? Democracy standards. That is the bit you ignored.

The PTP are 1/15 democratic. The Junta have already proven they are 1/15th democratic by offering transparency in the form of not passing any projects without NACC scrutiny and shelving projects like the 4G auction because of a lack of transparency. That is one principle a piece so far.If the Junta do one more they are more democratic than the PTP.

Time to leave the bitter past behind as it is this mindset that holds Thailand back. These shadow lurkers that denounce the Junta rejoiced at terrorist attacks, ignored farmers and held voters in contempt.

I embrace the Junta for what they have done because the alternative is too hard to bear and is more in line with Iraq.

I'm not ignoring democracy. You are ignoring the fact that any elected government that attempts to hold a new election is more democratic than a military junta that cancels elections, puts soldiers on the streets, censors the press, etc.

You love those 14 principles, generated by an obscure group called "Deliberating in a Democracy in the Americas (DDA)" and by no means universally accepted. I think they're good ideas, but not a practical criteria for starting a democracy. You love them because they allow you to minimize the importance of elections.

But you did answer an earlier question of mine; you do rely on the censored press for you information.

[heybruce]

I think you're smart enough to know that your 52% number is crap, but I'm not certain. You seem oblivious to the fact that Thailand currently doesn't have a democracy. Also, much like many of the shallow thinkers who post here, you seem incapable of accepting that a person can be anti-coup without being pro-Shinawatra.

You are wasting your time here. Any one that thinks a government that is not wanted by 52% of the people is democratic will never understand what democracy is. In his senseless need to have a corrupt government in power he fails to notice that the people are happier corruption is down and the baht is still at the same as it was before the coup. In fact worth more than it was a year ago. Thailand has been given a time schedule on what it's intentions are. None of that give me 6 months crap. Things are changing and it is going to be a new Thailand. They now have a government in that unlike him does not live in the past. It has seen the mistakes of past coups and elections and is taking steps to see that they are not repeated.

There will always be the Shinawatra fans. He did spread a lot of crumbs at his feet but that source is now cut off.

I wonder if heybruce thinks that is democracy when you have a Prime Minister flying around Thailand in a helicopter that is not equipped for night flying so she has her brother a convicted criminal on the run from the law call into the cabinet meetings to relay instructions to them?

Some people are just plain resistant to change no matter how good it is. But the funny thing is when things are going down hill they are OK with that. Go figure.

Were you aware of the fact that the current junta felt Thailand needed a coup for the same reason Myanmar needed a coup in 1988? Perhaps your new Thailand will look like the old Myanmar.

I am well aware of the fact that Thailand has a coup government. It is not a Democracy.

You on the other hand are unaware that it is far better than what you call a Democracy. You pay absolutely no attention to what is going on. You are oblivious to the fact that the junta has laid down a time schedule for returning the country to an elected government.

You are unaware that it is making changes to give people a choice in governing Thailand. You are unaware that it has paid off huge debts to rice farmers that the previous government refused to pay. Instead of paying them they closed down the government causing all kinds off hardship on the rice growers one of the leading exports of the country in fact took them from world leaders to third place and incurred massive debts.

You are unaware that they are taking steps to better the Thai education system. Some of which I disagree but they are better than what Thailand. had. Which of these things did the Burmese do when they had their coup in 1988?

From what you have posted you have no idea of what Democracy is 48% is a cold hard fact. It is a minority and that is what we had running Thailand. defiantly not a democracy.

If you are not pro Thaksin why so much vehemence over the fact that he is not in power any more?

I am pro-democracy and anti-coup, I'm not pro-Thaksin. Are you truly incapable of recognizing the difference?

48% was the voter turn-out in the February election. A great many Thai's did not vote in an election they perceived as pointless since the Democrats dropped out. It was not a referendum on the government. You are twisting reality if to fit your views if you consider it as such.

I am aware that the junta has presented a schedule for a new constitution and election. The constitution will determine how democratic the election and new government will be. I suspect the new constitution will be a significant step back from the democracy allowed in the 2007 constitution, which was a significant step back from the democracy allowed in the 1997 constitution. What in the military's history leads you to believe the military supports democracy?

I am aware the junta has gone on a spending spree. I read uncensored news from outside Thailand. From July 5, 2014, 'The Economist':

"IT DID not take long for Thailand’s ruling junta to discover the first lesson of building popular goodwill: when in doubt, spend. The National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO), the ruling junta led by General Prayuth Chan-ocha, has occupied itself in its first month in office airing out government coffers with a high-powered leafblower. It paid nearly 92.4 billion baht ($2.8 billion) to rice farmers under a subsidy scheme implemented by the deposed government of Yingluck Shinawatra. It is pondering ambitious transport schemes estimated to cost more than $72 billion.

It has also promised to clear a $21-billion backlog of projects awaiting approval from the Board of Investment (BOI)—of which Mr Prayuth has appointed himself chair. At the BOI’s first post-coup meeting, on June 18th, it approved 18 projects worth $4 billion. And after deposing a government founded on economic populism, the NCPO seems to have decided that sometimes mimickry is the better part of governance: it brokered a deal that brought World Cup matches to free TV channels." http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21606327-economy-cannot-shrug-thailands-political-problems-when-teflon-wears

I especially like the sentence: "And after deposing a government founded on economic populism, the NCPO seems to have decided that sometimes mimickry is the better part of governance:"

Where do you get your news from?

I am interested in your so called spending spree.

For a start

The military paid the farmers a debt owed to them by the country an debt that was racked up over many months by the rice scheme.

It can not be in any way be referred to as a spending spree for it was a debt that had to be paid and had been neglected by the PT Govt which had said the money was there to pay out when it was not.

To pay it promptly was by no stretch of the imagination populism rather correcting the neglect of the PT govt which had led to extreme hardship for many farmers to the point of some taking their own lives.

Next

It is pondering ? Hardly a spending spree.

These projects were all to be part of the off budget 2.2 trillion loan that was scrapped and are an start of what is agreed to be a much needed upgrade of infrastructure. Rather than have things done outside budget where there is no accountability the military has suggested these projects be revisited and looked at in a transparent manner and included in successive budgets over the life of each project. What is wrong with that ?

Next.

The projects awaiting approval by the BOI were those which had been held up be the failure of the PT Govt to make provision for these projects to be completed when they dissolved the house. These are projects directly relating to overseas investment which it is generally agreed is needed to boost the economy. And are projects which had already been considered by the BOI and deemed good for the country, they would have been approved anyway by PT or any other Govt. What is so wrong with that ?

World cup on TV.

A company was attempting to hold the country to ransom over the rights, the general said 'stop pissing about just do it people want to watch' no political duck shoving and money in anyone's back pocket

Now I see the company is going to have to pay most of the money back.

Who wrote that piece for the Economist ?

Robert Amsterdam by any chance ?

I'll let you take your dispute with the Economist regarding descriptive phrases up with the Economist.

I was replying to a post from Northern John who referenced all the spending the junta was doing as being a good thing, and who stated that I was unaware of the spending.

[Robby nz]

I think you're smart enough to know that your 52% number is crap, but I'm not certain. You seem oblivious to the fact that Thailand currently doesn't have a democracy. Also, much like many of the shallow thinkers who post here, you seem incapable of accepting that a person can be anti-coup without being pro-Shinawatra.

You are wasting your time here. Any one that thinks a government that is not wanted by 52% of the people is democratic will never understand what democracy is. In his senseless need to have a corrupt government in power he fails to notice that the people are happier corruption is down and the baht is still at the same as it was before the coup. In fact worth more than it was a year ago. Thailand has been given a time schedule on what it's intentions are. None of that give me 6 months crap. Things are changing and it is going to be a new Thailand. They now have a government in that unlike him does not live in the past. It has seen the mistakes of past coups and elections and is taking steps to see that they are not repeated.

There will always be the Shinawatra fans. He did spread a lot of crumbs at his feet but that source is now cut off.

I wonder if heybruce thinks that is democracy when you have a Prime Minister flying around Thailand in a helicopter that is not equipped for night flying so she has her brother a convicted criminal on the run from the law call into the cabinet meetings to relay instructions to them?

Some people are just plain resistant to change no matter how good it is. But the funny thing is when things are going down hill they are OK with that. Go figure.

Were you aware of the fact that the current junta felt Thailand needed a coup for the same reason Myanmar needed a coup in 1988? Perhaps your new Thailand will look like the old Myanmar.

I am well aware of the fact that Thailand has a coup government. It is not a Democracy.

You on the other hand are unaware that it is far better than what you call a Democracy. You pay absolutely no attention to what is going on. You are oblivious to the fact that the junta has laid down a time schedule for returning the country to an elected government.

You are unaware that it is making changes to give people a choice in governing Thailand. You are unaware that it has paid off huge debts to rice farmers that the previous government refused to pay. Instead of paying them they closed down the government causing all kinds off hardship on the rice growers one of the leading exports of the country in fact took them from world leaders to third place and incurred massive debts.

You are unaware that they are taking steps to better the Thai education system. Some of which I disagree but they are better than what Thailand. had. Which of these things did the Burmese do when they had their coup in 1988?

From what you have posted you have no idea of what Democracy is 48% is a cold hard fact. It is a minority and that is what we had running Thailand. defiantly not a democracy.

If you are not pro Thaksin why so much vehemence over the fact that he is not in power any more?

I am pro-democracy and anti-coup, I'm not pro-Thaksin. Are you truly incapable of recognizing the difference?

48% was the voter turn-out in the February election. A great many Thai's did not vote in an election they perceived as pointless since the Democrats dropped out. It was not a referendum on the government. You are twisting reality if to fit your views if you consider it as such.

I am aware that the junta has presented a schedule for a new constitution and election. The constitution will determine how democratic the election and new government will be. I suspect the new constitution will be a significant step back from the democracy allowed in the 2007 constitution, which was a significant step back from the democracy allowed in the 1997 constitution. What in the military's history leads you to believe the military supports democracy?

I am aware the junta has gone on a spending spree. I read uncensored news from outside Thailand. From July 5, 2014, 'The Economist':

"IT DID not take long for Thailand’s ruling junta to discover the first lesson of building popular goodwill: when in doubt, spend. The National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO), the ruling junta led by General Prayuth Chan-ocha, has occupied itself in its first month in office airing out government coffers with a high-powered leafblower. It paid nearly 92.4 billion baht ($2.8 billion) to rice farmers under a subsidy scheme implemented by the deposed government of Yingluck Shinawatra. It is pondering ambitious transport schemes estimated to cost more than $72 billion.

It has also promised to clear a $21-billion backlog of projects awaiting approval from the Board of Investment (BOI)—of which Mr Prayuth has appointed himself chair. At the BOI’s first post-coup meeting, on June 18th, it approved 18 projects worth $4 billion. And after deposing a government founded on economic populism, the NCPO seems to have decided that sometimes mimickry is the better part of governance: it brokered a deal that brought World Cup matches to free TV channels." http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21606327-economy-cannot-shrug-thailands-political-problems-when-teflon-wears

I especially like the sentence: "And after deposing a government founded on economic populism, the NCPO seems to have decided that sometimes mimickry is the better part of governance:"

Where do you get your news from?

I am interested in your so called spending spree.

For a start

The military paid the farmers a debt owed to them by the country an debt that was racked up over many months by the rice scheme.

It can not be in any way be referred to as a spending spree for it was a debt that had to be paid and had been neglected by the PT Govt which had said the money was there to pay out when it was not.

To pay it promptly was by no stretch of the imagination populism rather correcting the neglect of the PT govt which had led to extreme hardship for many farmers to the point of some taking their own lives.

Next

It is pondering ? Hardly a spending spree.

These projects were all to be part of the off budget 2.2 trillion loan that was scrapped and are an start of what is agreed to be a much needed upgrade of infrastructure. Rather than have things done outside budget where there is no accountability the military has suggested these projects be revisited and looked at in a transparent manner and included in successive budgets over the life of each project. What is wrong with that ?

Next.

The projects awaiting approval by the BOI were those which had been held up be the failure of the PT Govt to make provision for these projects to be completed when they dissolved the house. These are projects directly relating to overseas investment which it is generally agreed is needed to boost the economy. And are projects which had already been considered by the BOI and deemed good for the country, they would have been approved anyway by PT or any other Govt. What is so wrong with that ?

World cup on TV.

A company was attempting to hold the country to ransom over the rights, the general said 'stop pissing about just do it people want to watch' no political duck shoving and money in anyone's back pocket

Now I see the company is going to have to pay most of the money back.

Who wrote that piece for the Economist ?

Robert Amsterdam by any chance ?

I'll let you take your dispute with the Economist regarding descriptive phrases up with the Economist.

I was replying to a post from Northern John who referenced all the spending the junta was doing as being a good thing, and who stated that I was unaware of the spending.

No thank you.

I was replying to your post that the military had gone on a spending spree with the inference that it was a terrible thing.

Ok carry on with your defense of PT.

[shakya]

How many times have we heard these speeches about tackling corruption?

Yet day after day we read stories that the corrupt will be weeded out and transferred to an inactive post. If Thailand wants to rid itself of corruption (well most of it), you have a policy of prosecution and punishment not a game of musical chairs.

It is not that those in power do not understand it! They do for look at the drug laws and sentencing. Why is the law so harsh for relatively minor use? I suggest the reason is because there is a mentality that drugs are truly evil and should be eradicated although sure the laws are also used for less altruistic reasons.

Yet there are laws against corruption which is hard for individuals to prove, yet after going through all the effort of exposing these people, they serve no jail time. Often the corruption is really treasonous involving such huge sums of the national treasury. It is a truly evil thing, affects every Thai every day and yet is treated with disdain.

As for political reform, there will need to be educational reform before much headway is made with the politicians since most of the candidates seem to be mentally challenged. Simple beliefs and ideology is not enough if there is an ill educated and naive brain behind it since such people have no capacity for debate and reason and are incapable of rationalization.

If the public, who are in a similar state of confusion and brainwashed in the corrupt operation of society as the norm, have such people offered up for election, what hope is there? Add to that a muzzled press through the defamation laws and external reassures and threats and the public cannot even get informed in the extremely unlikely event that they even wanted to.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Just to make matters worse Thailand is getting a very bad press this am on Aljazeera concerning slavery issues, prawn workers are being sold for 400 dollors, then having to work for years for no pay, when/how will it all end ? My heart sunk on hearing this, there will be severe restrictions from America and Europe, the press release goes on to stay... sad, really sad

[heybruce]

I am pro-democracy and anti-coup, I'm not pro-Thaksin. Are you truly incapable of recognizing the difference?

48% was the voter turn-out in the February election. A great many Thai's did not vote in an election they perceived as pointless since the Democrats dropped out. It was not a referendum on the government. You are twisting reality if to fit your views if you consider it as such.

I am aware that the junta has presented a schedule for a new constitution and election. The constitution will determine how democratic the election and new government will be. I suspect the new constitution will be a significant step back from the democracy allowed in the 2007 constitution, which was a significant step back from the democracy allowed in the 1997 constitution. What in the military's history leads you to believe the military supports democracy?

I am aware the junta has gone on a spending spree. I read uncensored news from outside Thailand. From July 5, 2014, 'The Economist':

"IT DID not take long for Thailand’s ruling junta to discover the first lesson of building popular goodwill: when in doubt, spend. The National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO), the ruling junta led by General Prayuth Chan-ocha, has occupied itself in its first month in office airing out government coffers with a high-powered leafblower. It paid nearly 92.4 billion baht ($2.8 billion) to rice farmers under a subsidy scheme implemented by the deposed government of Yingluck Shinawatra. It is pondering ambitious transport schemes estimated to cost more than $72 billion.

It has also promised to clear a $21-billion backlog of projects awaiting approval from the Board of Investment (BOI)—of which Mr Prayuth has appointed himself chair. At the BOI’s first post-coup meeting, on June 18th, it approved 18 projects worth $4 billion. And after deposing a government founded on economic populism, the NCPO seems to have decided that sometimes mimickry is the better part of governance: it brokered a deal that brought World Cup matches to free TV channels." http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21606327-economy-cannot-shrug-thailands-political-problems-when-teflon-wears

I especially like the sentence: "And after deposing a government founded on economic populism, the NCPO seems to have decided that sometimes mimickry is the better part of governance:"

Where do you get your news from?

I am interested in your so called spending spree.

For a start

The military paid the farmers a debt owed to them by the country an debt that was racked up over many months by the rice scheme.

It can not be in any way be referred to as a spending spree for it was a debt that had to be paid and had been neglected by the PT Govt which had said the money was there to pay out when it was not.

To pay it promptly was by no stretch of the imagination populism rather correcting the neglect of the PT govt which had led to extreme hardship for many farmers to the point of some taking their own lives.

Next

It is pondering ? Hardly a spending spree.

These projects were all to be part of the off budget 2.2 trillion loan that was scrapped and are an start of what is agreed to be a much needed upgrade of infrastructure. Rather than have things done outside budget where there is no accountability the military has suggested these projects be revisited and looked at in a transparent manner and included in successive budgets over the life of each project. What is wrong with that ?

Next.

The projects awaiting approval by the BOI were those which had been held up be the failure of the PT Govt to make provision for these projects to be completed when they dissolved the house. These are projects directly relating to overseas investment which it is generally agreed is needed to boost the economy. And are projects which had already been considered by the BOI and deemed good for the country, they would have been approved anyway by PT or any other Govt. What is so wrong with that ?

World cup on TV.

A company was attempting to hold the country to ransom over the rights, the general said 'stop pissing about just do it people want to watch' no political duck shoving and money in anyone's back pocket

Now I see the company is going to have to pay most of the money back.

Who wrote that piece for the Economist ?

Robert Amsterdam by any chance ?

I'll let you take your dispute with the Economist regarding descriptive phrases up with the Economist.

I was replying to a post from Northern John who referenced all the spending the junta was doing as being a good thing, and who stated that I was unaware of the spending.

No thank you.

I was replying to your post that the military had gone on a spending spree with the inference that it was a terrible thing.

Ok carry on with your defense of PT.

Oh, another binary thinker. I'm anti-coup so I must be pro-PTP. I wonder if it was like that in Weimar Germany; if you were anti-communist you must be pro-Nazi, and if you were anti-Nazi you must be pro-communist.

[ginjag]

I'll let you take your dispute with the Economist regarding descriptive phrases up with the Economist.

I was replying to a post from Northern John who referenced all the spending the junta was doing as being a good thing, and who stated that I was unaware of the spending.

No thank you.

I was replying to your post that the military had gone on a spending spree with the inference that it was a terrible thing.

Ok carry on with your defense of PT.

Oh, another binary thinker. I'm anti-coup so I must be pro-PTP. I wonder if it was like that in Weimar Germany; if you were anti-communist you must be pro-Nazi, and if you were anti-Nazi you must be pro-communist.

Suppose near everyone is anti-coup if it took over a democratically well run government.

So your excuse is ?? Elections now, reforms only carried out by PTP, democracy as it wasn't under Yingluck, democracy is not about elections, it is how you conduct yourself in government. Why are you on TVF day in day out, with the changed rhetoric from Super Yingluck to bad army.-----bad Suthep---stupid Dems , never winning an election,---let the people decide even if it means mayhem,-----

I wonder if your currency trebled with the armies policies, you would still say thanks great governing but coups are wrong. I don't like coup's.

[djjamie]

The PTP won a monitored election deemed legitimate. Something that no military junta can claim. For the rest I'll tell you what I've repeatedly told rubl, there is nothing on your list of PTP actions that could not, and should not, have been dealt with by the courts or by the voters in a new election.

You think the military is restoring democracy? Like they did after the 2006 coup?

there is nothing on your list of PTP actions that could not, and should not, have been dealt with by the courts or by the voters in a new election.

Agreed. The coup was to restore stability. It did that. I would say it will restore democracy, but for that to happen it must have been there before. The Junta will bring democracy to Thailand.

The courts will continue on with there job and the next election will follow next year.

Glad we can agree on one thing anyway.

Your having reading problems again. Check the verb tense of my statements. The problems should have been dealt with by courts and elections without a coup.

Your statement "The Junta will bring democracy to Thailand." seems wildly optimistic. On what do you base this optimism?

My standards? Democratic standards. That is the bit you ignored. The PTP were not democratic. That is the bit you ignored.

There was nothing the coup took away from the courts my dear friend. They have not done the courts job. The courts are still dealing with the same cases before during and after the coup. Just because you read something on asiancorrespondent doesn't mean you can spout it as fact.

The Junta will be allowing an election after reform. A reform that will allow all the other democratic principles to flourish instead of the only one you harp on. Have you not read the news for the past 3 months. Do you not read this or is this the fake news because it does not suit the agenda.

Now back to the point you refuse to address.

My standards? Democracy standards. That is the bit you ignored.

The PTP are 1/15 democratic. The Junta have already proven they are 1/15th democratic by offering transparency in the form of not passing any projects without NACC scrutiny and shelving projects like the 4G auction because of a lack of transparency. That is one principle a piece so far.If the Junta do one more they are more democratic than the PTP.

Time to leave the bitter past behind as it is this mindset that holds Thailand back. These shadow lurkers that denounce the Junta rejoiced at terrorist attacks, ignored farmers and held voters in contempt.

I embrace the Junta for what they have done because the alternative is too hard to bear and is more in line with Iraq.

I'm not ignoring democracy. You are ignoring the fact that any elected government that attempts to hold a new election is more democratic than a military junta that cancels elections, puts soldiers on the streets, censors the press, etc.

You love those 14 principles, generated by an obscure group called "Deliberating in a Democracy in the Americas (DDA)" and by no means universally accepted. I think they're good ideas, but not a practical criteria for starting a democracy. You love them because they allow you to minimize the importance of elections.

But you did answer an earlier question of mine; you do rely on the censored press for you information.

Yes you are. 14 principles of democracy you are ignoring. I see the common thread in your replies to me is "elections" nothing more. Nothing less. It is elections in every single one of your posts. Every one. No other principles. Just………………………yep, elections. You said elections 3 times in the first paragraph alone. When you can defend the PTP by aligning their democracy with the 14 other principles then we can talk.

I also didn't say the 15 principles of democracy are the 14 you're talking about. I have never heard of this pdf you sent me. But elections is one of course.

Great if they held a new election. Didn't work out. The terrorists from the militia that brought them to power last time got involved remember so the military had to start saving lives on average of 1 a week. So far they have saved, since the 22nd of May, 7 lives. Toot, toot my friend. Yes yes, elections will come.

Gotto stop those terrorist attacks. The court's couldn't. The police didn't. The coup did. Yes, yes elections. I do know it is ONE principle of the 15. I have not forgotten.

Now, I cannot entertain you any longer by trying to convince you daily terrorist attacks are not good and an unelected accused mass murderer, accused terrorist, convicted criminal fugitive running Thailand is better than a Junta trying to bring a long missed democracy to Thailand…(Yes, yes election. We know mate)

I have to go now as BattleField 4 on the playstation has double experience points until midnight tonight and I gotta get that M79 grenade launcher before the time runs out. How apt, the UDD terrorists used that to attack innocent protestors. Yes, yes. Elections. I STILL have not forgotten mate.

May peace and reconciliation be with you my friend. Leave the shadows for your sake and your children's if you have any. We need to set the example for the youth.

[mrtoad]

Are The Redtards, still saying that elections are the only thing that brings democracy back? Time they realised that election are great, but there has to be the right conditions for a functional and fair democracy. Their last attempt was a sham, and a total abuse of power.

Time for them to change the record.

[heybruce]

I'll let you take your dispute with the Economist regarding descriptive phrases up with the Economist.

I was replying to a post from Northern John who referenced all the spending the junta was doing as being a good thing, and who stated that I was unaware of the spending.

No thank you.

I was replying to your post that the military had gone on a spending spree with the inference that it was a terrible thing.

Ok carry on with your defense of PT.

Oh, another binary thinker. I'm anti-coup so I must be pro-PTP. I wonder if it was like that in Weimar Germany; if you were anti-communist you must be pro-Nazi, and if you were anti-Nazi you must be pro-communist.

Suppose near everyone is anti-coup if it took over a democratically well run government.

So your excuse is ?? Elections now, reforms only carried out by PTP, democracy as it wasn't under Yingluck, democracy is not about elections, it is how you conduct yourself in government. Why are you on TVF day in day out, with the changed rhetoric from Super Yingluck to bad army.-----bad Suthep---stupid Dems , never winning an election,---let the people decide even if it means mayhem,-----

I wonder if your currency trebled with the armies policies, you would still say thanks great governing but coups are wrong. I don't like coup's.

Are you trying to wear me down by being incoherent? I confess, it may work. But just because you discourage replies by being incoherent doesn't mean you'll persuade others. Have you considered being rational and coherent?

[heybruce]

Your having reading problems again. Check the verb tense of my statements. The problems should have been dealt with by courts and elections without a coup.

Your statement "The Junta will bring democracy to Thailand." seems wildly optimistic. On what do you base this optimism?

My standards? Democratic standards. That is the bit you ignored. The PTP were not democratic. That is the bit you ignored.

There was nothing the coup took away from the courts my dear friend. They have not done the courts job. The courts are still dealing with the same cases before during and after the coup. Just because you read something on asiancorrespondent doesn't mean you can spout it as fact.

The Junta will be allowing an election after reform. A reform that will allow all the other democratic principles to flourish instead of the only one you harp on. Have you not read the news for the past 3 months. Do you not read this or is this the fake news because it does not suit the agenda.

Now back to the point you refuse to address.

My standards? Democracy standards. That is the bit you ignored.

The PTP are 1/15 democratic. The Junta have already proven they are 1/15th democratic by offering transparency in the form of not passing any projects without NACC scrutiny and shelving projects like the 4G auction because of a lack of transparency. That is one principle a piece so far.If the Junta do one more they are more democratic than the PTP.

Time to leave the bitter past behind as it is this mindset that holds Thailand back. These shadow lurkers that denounce the Junta rejoiced at terrorist attacks, ignored farmers and held voters in contempt.

I embrace the Junta for what they have done because the alternative is too hard to bear and is more in line with Iraq.

I'm not ignoring democracy. You are ignoring the fact that any elected government that attempts to hold a new election is more democratic than a military junta that cancels elections, puts soldiers on the streets, censors the press, etc.

You love those 14 principles, generated by an obscure group called "Deliberating in a Democracy in the Americas (DDA)" and by no means universally accepted. I think they're good ideas, but not a practical criteria for starting a democracy. You love them because they allow you to minimize the importance of elections.

But you did answer an earlier question of mine; you do rely on the censored press for you information.

Yes you are. 14 principles of democracy you are ignoring. I see the common thread in your replies to me is "elections" nothing more. Nothing less. It is elections in every single one of your posts. Every one. No other principles. Just………………………yep, elections. You said elections 3 times in the first paragraph alone. When you can defend the PTP by aligning their democracy with the 14 other principles then we can talk.

I also didn't say the 15 principles of democracy are the 14 you're talking about. I have never heard of this pdf you sent me. But elections is one of course.

Great if they held a new election. Didn't work out. The terrorists from the militia that brought them to power last time got involved remember so the military had to start saving lives on average of 1 a week. So far they have saved, since the 22nd of May, 7 lives. Toot, toot my friend. Yes yes, elections will come.

Gotto stop those terrorist attacks. The court's couldn't. The police didn't. The coup did. Yes, yes elections. I do know it is ONE principle of the 15. I have not forgotten.

Now, I cannot entertain you any longer by trying to convince you daily terrorist attacks are not good and an unelected accused mass murderer, accused terrorist, convicted criminal fugitive running Thailand is better than a Junta trying to bring a long missed democracy to Thailand…(Yes, yes election. We know mate)

I have to go now as BattleField 4 on the playstation has double experience points until midnight tonight and I gotta get that M79 grenade launcher before the time runs out. How apt, the UDD terrorists used that to attack innocent protestors. Yes, yes. Elections. I STILL have not forgotten mate.

May peace and reconciliation be with you my friend. Leave the shadows for your sake and your children's if you have any. We need to set the example for the youth.

Wow, incoherence squared. I give you a link to the only page I could find to your much 'referenced' (no reference provided) 14 Principles of Democracy and you say you never heard of the .pdf. I don't know what your 14 principles are, and since you don't believe in providing references, you probably aren't going to tell us.

But clearly you don't like elections that may give results that you won't approve of, and you waste a lot of time on playstation games. That tells us a lot.

[JAG]

Look what you've done now "heybruce", you've started him off again on his 15 principles of democracy. He will be crayoning all over this thread from now on with his pseudo academic dodgy political science.nonsence.

Lets just accept that he embraces the military coup, he likes the idea of bemedalled Generals running the show, and couldn't give a toss that the Thai people have lost the right to decide who governs them for the foreseeable future!

[djjamie]

My standards? Democratic standards. That is the bit you ignored. The PTP were not democratic. That is the bit you ignored.

There was nothing the coup took away from the courts my dear friend. They have not done the courts job. The courts are still dealing with the same cases before during and after the coup. Just because you read something on asiancorrespondent doesn't mean you can spout it as fact.

The Junta will be allowing an election after reform. A reform that will allow all the other democratic principles to flourish instead of the only one you harp on. Have you not read the news for the past 3 months. Do you not read this or is this the fake news because it does not suit the agenda.

Now back to the point you refuse to address.

My standards? Democracy standards. That is the bit you ignored.

The PTP are 1/15 democratic. The Junta have already proven they are 1/15th democratic by offering transparency in the form of not passing any projects without NACC scrutiny and shelving projects like the 4G auction because of a lack of transparency. That is one principle a piece so far.If the Junta do one more they are more democratic than the PTP.

Time to leave the bitter past behind as it is this mindset that holds Thailand back. These shadow lurkers that denounce the Junta rejoiced at terrorist attacks, ignored farmers and held voters in contempt.

I embrace the Junta for what they have done because the alternative is too hard to bear and is more in line with Iraq.

I'm not ignoring democracy. You are ignoring the fact that any elected government that attempts to hold a new election is more democratic than a military junta that cancels elections, puts soldiers on the streets, censors the press, etc.

You love those 14 principles, generated by an obscure group called "Deliberating in a Democracy in the Americas (DDA)" and by no means universally accepted. I think they're good ideas, but not a practical criteria for starting a democracy. You love them because they allow you to minimize the importance of elections.

But you did answer an earlier question of mine; you do rely on the censored press for you information.

Yes you are. 14 principles of democracy you are ignoring. I see the common thread in your replies to me is "elections" nothing more. Nothing less. It is elections in every single one of your posts. Every one. No other principles. Just………………………yep, elections. You said elections 3 times in the first paragraph alone. When you can defend the PTP by aligning their democracy with the 14 other principles then we can talk.

I also didn't say the 15 principles of democracy are the 14 you're talking about. I have never heard of this pdf you sent me. But elections is one of course.

Great if they held a new election. Didn't work out. The terrorists from the militia that brought them to power last time got involved remember so the military had to start saving lives on average of 1 a week. So far they have saved, since the 22nd of May, 7 lives. Toot, toot my friend. Yes yes, elections will come.

Gotto stop those terrorist attacks. The court's couldn't. The police didn't. The coup did. Yes, yes elections. I do know it is ONE principle of the 15. I have not forgotten.

Now, I cannot entertain you any longer by trying to convince you daily terrorist attacks are not good and an unelected accused mass murderer, accused terrorist, convicted criminal fugitive running Thailand is better than a Junta trying to bring a long missed democracy to Thailand…(Yes, yes election. We know mate)

I have to go now as BattleField 4 on the playstation has double experience points until midnight tonight and I gotta get that M79 grenade launcher before the time runs out. How apt, the UDD terrorists used that to attack innocent protestors. Yes, yes. Elections. I STILL have not forgotten mate.

May peace and reconciliation be with you my friend. Leave the shadows for your sake and your children's if you have any. We need to set the example for the youth.

Wow, incoherence squared. I give you a link to the only page I could find to your much 'referenced' (no reference provided) 14 Principles of Democracy and you say you never heard of the .pdf. I don't know what your 14 principles are, and since you don't believe in providing references, you probably aren't going to tell us.

But clearly you don't like elections that may give results that you won't approve of, and you waste a lot of time on playstation games. That tells us a lot.

Hard to rebut hard facts heay…..Don't blame you for your reply. Don't blame you for the condescension. Don't blame you for belittling me. That is all you have heay.

I love elections. I embrace them like a new born baby on a mothers teat. They are wonderful heay. I see you you love them over all other principles of democracy.

I respect elections equally and with as much emotion as the other 14 principles.

Pity you don't.

Terrorism is bad mate.

Good night.

[rubl]

Look what you've done now "heybruce", you've started him off again on his 15 principles of democracy. He will be crayoning all over this thread from now on with his pseudo academic dodgy political science.nonsence.

Lets just accept that he embraces the military coup, he likes the idea of bemedalled Generals running the show, and couldn't give a toss that the Thai people have lost the right to decide who governs them for the foreseeable future!

Bemedalled Generals?

Does that mean I have to change my Tshirt?

[djjamie]

Look what you've done now "heybruce", you've started him off again on his 15 principles of democracy. He will be crayoning all over this thread from now on with his pseudo academic dodgy political science.nonsence.

Lets just accept that he embraces the military coup, he likes the idea of bemedalled Generals running the show, and couldn't give a toss that the Thai people have lost the right to decide who governs them for the foreseeable future!

Ironic thing is you embrace democracy yet cannot get past the first principle.

Come on. Humour me. Tell me one principle that the PTP adhere too. (apart from elections)

Please. I beg you..

[heybruce]

I'm not ignoring democracy. You are ignoring the fact that any elected government that attempts to hold a new election is more democratic than a military junta that cancels elections, puts soldiers on the streets, censors the press, etc.

You love those 14 principles, generated by an obscure group called "Deliberating in a Democracy in the Americas (DDA)" and by no means universally accepted. I think they're good ideas, but not a practical criteria for starting a democracy. You love them because they allow you to minimize the importance of elections.

But you did answer an earlier question of mine; you do rely on the censored press for you information.

Yes you are. 14 principles of democracy you are ignoring. I see the common thread in your replies to me is "elections" nothing more. Nothing less. It is elections in every single one of your posts. Every one. No other principles. Just………………………yep, elections. You said elections 3 times in the first paragraph alone. When you can defend the PTP by aligning their democracy with the 14 other principles then we can talk.

I also didn't say the 15 principles of democracy are the 14 you're talking about. I have never heard of this pdf you sent me. But elections is one of course.

Great if they held a new election. Didn't work out. The terrorists from the militia that brought them to power last time got involved remember so the military had to start saving lives on average of 1 a week. So far they have saved, since the 22nd of May, 7 lives. Toot, toot my friend. Yes yes, elections will come.

Gotto stop those terrorist attacks. The court's couldn't. The police didn't. The coup did. Yes, yes elections. I do know it is ONE principle of the 15. I have not forgotten.

Now, I cannot entertain you any longer by trying to convince you daily terrorist attacks are not good and an unelected accused mass murderer, accused terrorist, convicted criminal fugitive running Thailand is better than a Junta trying to bring a long missed democracy to Thailand…(Yes, yes election. We know mate)

I have to go now as BattleField 4 on the playstation has double experience points until midnight tonight and I gotta get that M79 grenade launcher before the time runs out. How apt, the UDD terrorists used that to attack innocent protestors. Yes, yes. Elections. I STILL have not forgotten mate.

May peace and reconciliation be with you my friend. Leave the shadows for your sake and your children's if you have any. We need to set the example for the youth.

Wow, incoherence squared. I give you a link to the only page I could find to your much 'referenced' (no reference provided) 14 Principles of Democracy and you say you never heard of the .pdf. I don't know what your 14 principles are, and since you don't believe in providing references, you probably aren't going to tell us.

But clearly you don't like elections that may give results that you won't approve of, and you waste a lot of time on playstation games. That tells us a lot.

Hard to rebut hard facts heay…..Don't blame you for your reply. Don't blame you for the condescension. Don't blame you for belittling me. That is all you have heay.

I love elections. I embrace them like a new born baby on a mothers teat. They are wonderful heay. I see you you love them over all other principles of democracy.

I respect elections equally and with as much emotion as the other 14 principles.

Pity you don't.

Terrorism is bad mate.

Good night.

It's certainly hard to refute made-up facts. If you were to provide links or references to your claims and your much mentioned 14 Principles it might be possible to have a debate.

[ginjag]

Suppose near everyone is anti-coup if it took over a democratically well run government.

So your excuse is ?? Elections now, reforms only carried out by PTP, democracy as it wasn't under Yingluck, democracy is not about elections, it is how you conduct yourself in government. Why are you on TVF day in day out, with the changed rhetoric from Super Yingluck to bad army.-----bad Suthep---stupid Dems , never winning an election,---let the people decide even if it means mayhem,-----

I wonder if your currency trebled with the armies policies, you would still say thanks great governing but coups are wrong. I don't like coup's.

Are you trying to wear me down by being incoherent? I confess, it may work. But just because you discourage replies by being incoherent doesn't mean you'll persuade others. Have you considered being rational and coherent?

My dear friend, look at all these posts discussing WHAT ?? yes what in fact, because all I see is that your propaganda machine ran out of parts more than a month ago-so you switched to anti army tactics and the never ending election rubbish.

What are you really trying to say ??? my Yingluck is pushed out by a non democratically elected army, even if her party was diabolical it was elected democratically. so it should be ruling in a diabolical manner. The army kicked them out because no other option was open, they were that bad that trying to return them through the ballot box would have been criminal.( they were running a criminal government in many ways).

Try another friendly topic this pro PTP/Thaksin--anti army thing is getting boring to say the least, same same old rubbish--likened to a yo yo.

[ginjag]

Look what you've done now "heybruce", you've started him off again on his 15 principles of democracy. He will be crayoning all over this thread from now on with his pseudo academic dodgy political science.nonsence.

Lets just accept that he embraces the military coup, he likes the idea of bemedalled Generals running the show, and couldn't give a toss that the Thai people have lost the right to decide who governs them for the foreseeable future!

Ironic thing is you embrace democracy yet cannot get past the first principle.

Come on. Humour me. Tell me one principle that the PTP adhere too. (apart from elections)

Please. I beg you..

Very difficult thing to answer, it's not their agenda to answer things like this only to reply mainly, attack with any morsel of a loophole to keep the discussions on going. I have tried to put normal points of view but to no avail.

PTP cracked and self destroyed, (the thinking of the pro PTP what do we do now----elections---now what do we do, attack the protesters-----now what do we do try to slag the army because they were not elected.) things are running fairly smooth this makes it difficult so lets argue about anything----the best choice would be the democracy principles as there is not a lot more to talk about.

[heybruce]

Suppose near everyone is anti-coup if it took over a democratically well run government.

So your excuse is ?? Elections now, reforms only carried out by PTP, democracy as it wasn't under Yingluck, democracy is not about elections, it is how you conduct yourself in government. Why are you on TVF day in day out, with the changed rhetoric from Super Yingluck to bad army.-----bad Suthep---stupid Dems , never winning an election,---let the people decide even if it means mayhem,-----

I wonder if your currency trebled with the armies policies, you would still say thanks great governing but coups are wrong. I don't like coup's.

Are you trying to wear me down by being incoherent? I confess, it may work. But just because you discourage replies by being incoherent doesn't mean you'll persuade others. Have you considered being rational and coherent?

My dear friend, look at all these posts discussing WHAT ?? yes what in fact, because all I see is that your propaganda machine ran out of parts more than a month ago-so you switched to anti army tactics and the never ending election rubbish.

What are you really trying to say ??? my Yingluck is pushed out by a non democratically elected army, even if her party was diabolical it was elected democratically. so it should be ruling in a diabolical manner. The army kicked them out because no other option was open, they were that bad that trying to return them through the ballot box would have been criminal.( they were running a criminal government in many ways).

Try another friendly topic this pro PTP/Thaksin--anti army thing is getting boring to say the least, same same old rubbish--likened to a yo yo.

More incoherence, along with some misinformation. Find anything I've posted that qualifies as pro-PTP or pro-Shinawatra. Don't give your interpretation of my posts, find something I've posted that is clearly pro-PTP or pro-Shinawatra.

As I've repeatedly said, I'm opposed to the coup, and military coups in general, and I'm pro-democracy, but that does not make me pro-Shinawatra. Is that too complicated for you?