Israel 'to intensify Gaza attacks'

[Pralaad]

Israel murder's 76 Palestinian men, women and children, no Israeli's injured.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelpalestine-crisis-netanyahu-unrepentant-despite-growing-gaza-death-toll-9598821.html

No israeli's injured only over 400 rockets fired into Israeli civilians within a few days .

Perhaps good on IDF for protecting it's citizens, and Shame on Hamas for NOT protecting it's citizens and using them as human shields

[Ulysses G.]

Israel murder's 76 Palestinian men, women and children, no Israeli's injured.

Blame Hamas. The Israelis are warning civilians to leave military targets before they strike and telling them where it will happen, but Hamas are encouraging their own people to stay and get killed so they can use it for publicity purposes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s

[GentlemanJim]

It says about the same as the 5 Israeli's caught on video in New York, and seen by eye witnesses, dancing as the Twin Towers came down.

The Snopes fact-checkers say that nutty little conspiracy theory is a load of crap that originated in Pravda and a very unreliable, pro-Palestinian TV channel. Why do you always post this kind of nonsense? Do you expect anyone take it seriously?

"None of us need any reminders after the events of September 11 of what an ugly place the world can be, but we continue to receive those reminders nonetheless. In this case, there are plenty of anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist and anti-Israeli groups eager to use the horrors of September 11 as fodder for propaganda to serve their own political ends."

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/israel.asp]

Snopes is a mom and pop operation, owned by David and Barbara Mikkelson self proclaimed retired Jewish Ultra Liberal Democrats. If you want to take as gospel the tripe on snopes that is researched and edited by these two then be my guest, but I belong to the part of population with a brain and am perfectly capable of objectively researching what does and does not happen.

[Ulysses G.]

I belong to the part of population with a brain and am perfectly capable of objectively researching what does and does not happen.

Snopes has a great reputation for unearthing actual FACTS, despite the fact that they are "Jewish".

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/jun/16/snopes.folklore

[Pakboong]

80 something rockets and no reported casualties ? No wonder Israel let em fly. Perfect PR tool and license to kill.

You sound a little disappointed there.

There are many reasons as to why rocket fire does not result in casualties. Mainly it because rockets are not the best way to inflict casualties, but they do a great job an instilling terror and winning PR and morale points. Surprise, both sides play these games.

Then there are operational issues such as launching rockets with the opponent quick and accurate response almost assured, hitting specific targets with unguided missiles, having some rockets intercepted by superior technology etc.

But yes, go ahead and tell people living under rocket fire there's nothing to worry about. I'm pretty sure you've never ever experienced anything similar or your wouldn't post such nonsense.

[Scott]

Off-topic discussion deleted.

[siampolee]

This link below provides an interesting thought provoking article.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/07/10-5

[Morch]

It says about the same as the 5 Israeli's caught on video in New York, and seen by eye witnesses, dancing as the Twin Towers came down. You can't have your cake and eat it Jingthing. Both sides are wrong and trying to defend EITHER side is morally reprehensible.

I'll ignore that off topic flame / 911 conspiracy theory rubbish and instead focus on the current events in Israel and Gaza.

As I did bring up the Arab Israeli citizen celebrations in TEL AVIV, I suppose I should show what I was referring to. I can't verify the accuracy of these videos so if someone can verify that this is real (or show it isn't) that would be welcome.

Posted July 9. Supposedly Arab Israelis in TEL AVIV celebrating the Hamas rockets going deeper into Israel.

And another one, presumably similar time.

Anyway ... I thought it was relevant that Israel has 20 percent Arabic citizens to see a scene like this.

Not sure what do you mean by "real" - that it happened in Yafo (the older and mostly Arab part of Tel Aviv) is true, can see the shop sign on the back, and cars got Israeli license plates. The demonstrations and riots among Israeli Arabs started right after the news of the Palestinian boy's murder, and were in evidence almost all over the country. This was partly orchestrated by certain elements but mostly genuine outrage, fueled by long standing issues to do with Israel's Arab minority. Expressing support for the Hamas attacks is a silly by product of this - as bina posted, rockets from Gaza do not discriminate between Jews and Muslims.

There's a lot of anger in Israel (that is among the Jewish population) over these demonstrations and expression of support toward the Hamas.

The 20%+ minority thing - depends on point of view. Can be said that realistically compared with most Muslims and/or with other minority groups in the Middle East, Arab Israeli get the best of it. As can be repeatedly seen - Arab Israeli parliament members often get away with stuff that would see them sanctioned in other countries (not to mention Middle East ones). These demonstrations are not met by anti-riot Egyptian style response of anything of the sort - compared with treatment of protests in other Middle East countries, police is pretty soft.

Now, that said - it all depends on what the benchmark is. Comparing Arab Israeli rights to similar groups in the Middle East is one thing, comparing their rights to similar groups in the West would be another - and would give different answers. Then again, while they do have full rights as far as the law goes, the application of the law is not always adhered to, and at least to some extent (again, depends whom you ask) there is a measure of discrimination. These demonstrations are partly a way to express sympathy and solidarity with the Palestinians, and partly the product of anger (or disenchantment ) over long term social issues. How much of the second part it justified is, again, eye of the beholder stuff.

EDIT: I've noticed that both sides (well, more organized on the Hamas, more individual effort from Israelis) sometimes re-hash older material (pictures, clips, casualty number, rocket hits). Can get a bit confusing sometimes. There was a BBC piece about this a few days ago, will try to dig it up if it is of interest.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Scott

[johna]

Israel murder's 76 Palestinian men, women and children, no Israeli's injured.

Blame Hamas. The Israelis are warning civilians to leave military targets before they strike and telling them where it will happen, but Hamas are encouraging their own people to stay and get killed so they can use it for publicity purposes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s

No lets blame the IDF, they are the ones murdering Palestinians.

Israel has pretty much declared Gaza as a free fire zone.

[Morch]

Israel murder's 76 Palestinian men, women and children, no Israeli's injured.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelpalestine-crisis-netanyahu-unrepentant-despite-growing-gaza-death-toll-9598821.html

I don't believe the word "murder" appears in the article. There are Israelis injured, although not many.

Have to wonder about Hamas not advising the population to avoid public gatherings, under the circumstances. The Israeli authorities were rather quick to issue warnings about that since the start of the escalation.

[Morch]

80 something rockets and no reported casualties ? No wonder Israel let em fly. Perfect PR tool and license to kill.

You sound a little disappointed there.

There are many reasons as to why rocket fire does not result in casualties. Mainly it because rockets are not the best way to inflict casualties, but they do a great job an instilling terror and winning PR and morale points. Surprise, both sides play these games.

Then there are operational issues such as launching rockets with the opponent quick and accurate response almost assured, hitting specific targets with unguided missiles, having some rockets intercepted by superior technology etc.

But yes, go ahead and tell people living under rocket fire there's nothing to worry about. I'm pretty sure you've never ever experienced anything similar or your wouldn't post such nonsense.

I'm sure you had a point. Sort of lost in the irrelevance of showing a rocket piece though.

Was that supposed to be some sort of illustration as to how harmless these things are?

May want to check this out:

Rocket hits Ashdod gas station Three people injured in rocked attack, as MDA emergency units treat several others at scene.

Following a barrage of sirens across southern Israeli cities, a rocket launched from Gaza hit a fuel tank near a gas station in Ashdod, causing severe damage and a fire. MDA reported one person was critically injured by the strike, while two other Israelis were lightly injured.

The three were taken to the Kaplan Medical Center in Rehovot. The seriously injured man suffered injuries to his limbs. Emergency rescue units search for more injured people at the scene. Firefighters on the scene are working to control the fire.

http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Rocket-hits-Ashdod-gas-station-362369

[Morch]

This link below provides an interesting thought provoking article.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/07/10-5

Not really thought provoking as such. Mostly re-hashing some notions and applying them to the current situation. This is achieved by ignoring certain facts, belittling others, and making some unfounded claims.

For starters, it assumes all of the responsibility of whatever happens lies with Israel. The Palestinians have their own myths, their own domestic political struggles and their own narrative to support. Anyone who disregards that is being uninformed (not to say dishonest) about facts, and in a way, somewhat condescending toward the Palestinians.

The article ignores the fact that Hamas is not interested, at least not in any obvious meaningful way to engage Israel in a peaceful manner. Even the reference to the last attempt at Palestinian reconciliation is incorrect - there was no clear deceleration of abandoning armed struggle against Israel by Hamas. Rocket launches this time around are not solely by "splinter groups" as presented, but see major Hamas participation. The article also ignores issues pertaining to Hamas's losing ground in Gaza Strip (economic crisis and hardline prestige) as additional factors in this current conflagration - this was in the cards long before the kidnapping and murder.

Next - Israel did present evidence that the wanted murderers were Hamas men. Claiming that Hamas is not responsible is a bit bogus, seeing the way these news were received and actions condoned. I do not think Israel claimed that the action was directed from Hamas Central, as such, nor does it see it as germane. Funny how the writer whines about no evidence, yet is assured of the perpetrators motives as if he had any corroboration for this.

There's more, but really gets tiresome replying to one liners.

[Morch]

Israel murder's 76 Palestinian men, women and children, no Israeli's injured.

Blame Hamas. The Israelis are warning civilians to leave military targets before they strike and telling them where it will happen, but Hamas are encouraging their own people to stay and get killed so they can use it for publicity purposes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s

No lets blame the IDF, they are the ones murdering Palestinians.

Israel has pretty much declared Gaza as a free fire zone.

If Israel would have declared Gaza a "free fire zone" the casualty list would be much higher.

You may want to take Israel's neighbors as reference to what does count as "free fire zone" in

the context of urban residential areas.

I suppose that Israel could rig up a system that would launch an unguided rocket back at Gaza

for each one launched by Hamas & Co. Not sure that the Gazans will approve, but it may just

satisfy some posters sense of fairness.

Again, the word "murder" is not used in the article, rather it's your own addition.

[johna]

Israel murder's 76 Palestinian men, women and children, no Israeli's injured.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelpalestine-crisis-netanyahu-unrepentant-despite-growing-gaza-death-toll-9598821.html

No israeli's injured only over 400 rockets fired into Israeli civilians within a few days .

Perhaps good on IDF for protecting it's citizens, and Shame on Hamas for NOT protecting it's citizens and using them as human shields

What would you say was the ratio of rockets fired, 10 to 1, 20 to 1, probably a lot more given the ratio of those killed Palestinians 100 Israeli 0

[Ulysses G.]

If you are losing 100 lives to one, if probably means that you should not be continually using weapons of terror and starting wars against much superior forces. It is not Israel's fault that the Palestinians never seem to wake up.

[joepublic]

80 something rockets and no reported casualties ?.

That might have to do with the fact that half of Israel are hiding in shelters while Hamas has Palestinian woman and children acting as human shields to shield their terrorist fighters and protect rocket launchers while they are firing into civilian areas.

Several Palestinians were killed in an airstrike on a Gaza rooftop. Palestinian medical sources told CNN the death toll was 10, but then lowered it to seven. Official Palestinian news agency WAFA reported that six were killed. Those killed were forming a "human shield" on the roof of a home belonging to members of Hamas' militant wing, Palestinian sources said. Two were children, WAFA and Palestinian medical sources said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/08/world/meast/mideast-tensions/

Knowing CNN's quality of journalism, you are better off watching BBC or AL JAZEERA.

Another good outlet is rt,com. CNN is pointless

[Ulysses G.]

Another good outlet is rt,com. CNN is pointless

You mean the Russia Times. Yes, very reliable they are.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

This thread is not about the source of the information, it is about a topic. If you wish to use a different source, feel free to do so.