Low-income earners unable to make ends meet on 300 baht minimum wage

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I just walked to Ratchawat market close to where I stay in Bangkok.

I bought one kilo of Rambutan 30 Baht, one kilo of Mangosteen 25 Baht, some fried banana and so 20 Baht, one ice coffee 20 Baht. That's 95 Baht already and I didn't buy anything special.

Now imagine 300 Baht a day for you, and your wife, and your two small children who go to school ... ...

OK,

32bht for 1Kgof Bread flour, 32bht, that's 2-3 loaves of bread (or 15 bread rolls).

99bht for 5Kg of white rice, a lot of meals worth (say 25 meals).

34bht for 300gmof chicken breast from Tesco, about 6 curries worth.

79bht for 1Kg of frozen french fries, Tescos own (10 meals).

Yellow Mango, 20bht for 1Kg.

(these were all items I purchased in the last 2 days)

About 270bht so far. Sauce/spice for the food, I already had.

Children are given free meals at government school if aged between 5 and 13.

You can live well on small amounts of money if you choose carefully.

Edited July 12, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[wwest5829]

whatsupdoc.

I guess the reason that the cost of living is higher is to a large extent due to the steep rise in minimum wage. If so, raising the minimum wage further might not have the desired effect.

The main reason there was a rise in the minimum wage level was so as people could live as opposed to exist.

No doubt you are comfortably living on an average Thai wage in your ivory tower?

It didn't work though did it, any rise in wages must be coupled with a rise in productivity otherwise it doesn't work,prices just rise to compensate.

I don't understand, you propose that there not be minimum wages required? Do you think business will raise wages in fairness to the profits they earn? Not my understanding of history. I love the writer, Charles Dickens, but I don't want to see a return to England in the 1850's before government intervention to address the unmet needs in society.

We have a tight labour market and whether the government 300 B wage increase or wage will eventually rise is a moot point. We seen labour unrests in Indonesia and China over wage raise and governments were behind the curve and companies forced to increase wages after days of losses.

Workers are better informed and have unions now to advise. Business that profit and not raise wage or benefits in tandem will have a very fluid labour force. I have example of a friend who bought a luxury car while workers have no wage increase or bonus. They notice and start the bad mouthing. What happen next is expected. Workers and even mid management walk out.

If you are in touch with hiring nowadays, you will know that 300B is now on a low end. Workers for construction are now demanding up to 500 B in Pattaya and Bangkok and skill workers are still hard to find. I have hired workers at 300 B for my restaurant business and it is impossible to retain and they will be on lookout for better wage and they will get it next door.

The biggest inflation component is food followed by transportation. Importers have to pay more to import due to the Baht depreciation. Transport companies are raising their delivery charges due to higher oil prices, also due to Baht depreciation. Higher prices are passed down and affect all including food prices. Lots if components are in play, not only wages.

Agree, many things at play. My bottom line concern is some fairness in labor wages. I don't believe this happens if left totally up to market forces. What I see, globally is a growing disparity in income/wealth.

[rubl]

I just walked to Ratchawat market close to where I stay in Bangkok.

I bought one kilo of Rambutan 30 Baht, one kilo of Mangosteen 25 Baht, some fried banana and so 20 Baht, one ice coffee 20 Baht. That's 95 Baht already and I didn't buy anything special.

Now imagine 300 Baht a day for you, and your wife, and your two small children who go to school ... ...

OK,

32bht for 1Kgof Bread flour, 32bht, that's 2-3 loaves of bread (or 15 bread rolls).

99bht for 5Kg of white rice, a lot of meals worth (say 25 meals).

34bht for 300gmof chicken breast from Tesco, about 6 curries worth.

79bht for 1Kg of frozen french fries, Tescos own (10 meals).

Yellow Mango, 20bht for 1Kg.

(these were all items I purchased in the last 2 days)

About 270bht so far. Sauce/spice for the food, I already had.

Children are given free meals at government school if aged between 5 and 13.

You can live well on small amounts of money if you choose carefully.

You can live well on small amounts of money if you choose have to be carefully.

Come the next school season with school uniforms, books, small illnesses, some toys, the occasional family outing to a aircon-ed mall and sharing the snacks prepared at home to save money, and so and.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

You can live well on small amounts of money if you choose have to be carefully.

Come the next school season with school uniforms, books, small illnesses, some toys, the occasional family outing to a aircon-ed mall and sharing the snacks prepared at home to save money, and so and.

I'm always careful with my money, most sensible people are.

Not a case of "having to".

Illness is fixed free of charge.

Uniforms and books, many make do with second hand, the really poor get government hand outs.

Ever watched Thai children from poor families, they don't have toys (as we think of them in the west).

Outings are a trip to the nearest riverbank, where dad can fish (free food) and the kids can splash.

Malls, aren't for the poor.

[Thanet]

You are saying that because you are not on the minimum wage.

No. he is saying that because he understand how economics works

Of course the cost of living will go up if the minimum wage is increased. But other things will change too: Business owners, instead of living like feudal lords, will need to work harder to improve productivity in order to stay competitive. The government will need to invest more in educating its people so that they can produce more and innovate more. This transition is normal for all developing countries, and results in the emergence of a larger middle class, who can afford the higher cost of living and stimulate the economy by spending more.

By just relying on cheap labour, Thailand will not only be doing its citizenry an injustice, but will also get stuck in a middle income trap - overtaken in the industrial sector by countries that develop their people and productivity faster, and in the overtaken in the agricultural sector by countries with cheaper labour still.

That's what you mean by economics, right?

Did business owners work harder last wage hike?

This should answer your question about your knowledge of economics

Speaking as the MD of a Thailand branch office, and from my own experience of managing a factory that employs Thais of various skills, I can tell you that business owners have indeed had to work harder since the introduction of the minimum wage. We are having to train staff and look at ways of making them more productive. They benefit from this by improving their skills, and so do we by improving our operational efficiency and differentiating ourselves from the competition.

Now, other than using vague generalities to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, what are your credentials to lecture me on economics, may I ask?

I don't believe you have any.

[rubl]

You can live well on small amounts of money if you choose have to be carefully.

Come the next school season with school uniforms, books, small illnesses, some toys, the occasional family outing to a aircon-ed mall and sharing the snacks prepared at home to save money, and so and.

I'm always careful with my money, most sensible people are.

Not a case of "having to".

Illness is fixed free of charge.

Uniforms and books, many make do with second hand, the really poor get government hand outs.

Ever watched Thai children from poor families, they don't have toys (as we think of them in the west).

Outings are a trip to the nearest riverbank, where dad can fish (free food) and the kids can splash.

Malls, aren't for the poor.

No need for improvement, been living like that for generations.

Makes me wonder why the NCPO is spending on a Thai happiness program, makes me wonder about heated discussions on elections, constitutions and democracy.

Just be careful and 300 Baht a day is enough for happiness. It's true, an American here told me

Edited July 12, 2014 by rubl

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Now, other than using vague generalities to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, what are your credentials to lecture me on economics, may I ask?

I don't believe you have any.

Mostly our credentials are, we have enough money to live comfortably without working, and you don't.

[ginjag]

18 year old lad, N/E.

m/cycle payments...............................2,500 per month,

Food....................................................3,000,

Water..................................................... 250,

Mobile top up..........................................250,

Room..................................................2,000,

Min wage 9,000.

Save 1,000. per month. If he already has a m/cycle Save 3,500 per month.

My nephew is 18 and works for the Forestry Dept and earns 6,500 per month.

He has to pay his grandmother 1,000 baht to pay for the motorbike she bought for him and I charge him 1,500 baht to live here.

That is 50 baht a day and includes living, 2 or 3 meals a day, electricity, water, laundry etc.

He has 4,000 baht to get him to work and back, about 1,500 a month and 2,500 to spend on himself.

He usually runs out of money by the middle of the month and gets credit at the local shops at least for a while.

I controlled his money for a while and sometimes he had money left at the end of the month. Now he is lucky if he has any by the 3rd of the month.

He doesn't have the brains to realise that if he only went out 1 night in 3 after 2 months he would be in credit.

Today is the 12th and he has not paid me or his grandmother yet.

He may well be a nice lad, he needs tutoring from young if not it is live for today, not paying for what they owe is not a big guilt problem for most Thais.

Being in debt can also bring out the bad in us, some will gamble, steal, take drugs/alcohol to get rid of the problem (short term)

Keep doing your best and encourage him to try to get his head round the prob.

[JesseFrank]

Let me see, 18 months ago that would be around january 2013

Kasikorn says 29.63 instead of 27.

http://www.kasikornbank.com/EN/RatesAndFees/ForeignExchange/Pages/ForeignExchangeHistory.aspx?d=15&m=1&y=2013&r=0

On Friday Kasikorn again said 31.80, again a far cry from 33.00

http://www.kasikornbank.com/EN/RatesAndFees/ForeignExchange/Pages/ForeignExchange.aspx

I'm sure you can post any links to proof you're not just talking bullocks.

Hey I didn't have time to look at the charts.

So.let's not split decimals here. Do you remember the discussions with kittirat and everyone panicking when the baht got to about 28?

And everyone was begging for a weaker baht?

Jan 2014 33 to the USD

Apr 2013 28.5 to the USD

My apoglogies Mr.currency trader but that looks to me like about 4.5baht in 28, which is about 16%.

Is that good enough for youhttp://opentoexport.com/article/thailand-economy-thailand-wrestles-strong-baht-as-economy-slows-june-2013/

Thailand Economy: Thailand Wrestles Strong Baht as Economy Slows June 2013

Current rating:

Everyone was having a good old moan in early 2013 about the strong baht. Well now they got their wish. Any export boom? Thought not.

Stop sprouting drivel to float your boat,

Currency exchange April 2013

April 2013.JPG

Currency exchange January 2014

January 2014.JPG

Please point out where we can find the bs figures you claim.

Took them off a chart.

Hey its a trend matey. The baht got relatively strong at the beginning of 2013, everyone in exports was panicking and today, it has weakened. If we are going to sit here and debate whether 32.75 is 33 or 28.20 is 28, let's just call it quits and say the baht has weakened in the last 18 to 24 months shall we.

Strewth. Didn't know this was a currency trading site. Or is your point that the baht strengthened in this period and thus fuel prices got lower?

By the way, where can't you see 28.5 in April 2013 on your chart? And for the sake of argument let's not wonder if 32.85 is 33 OK.

Bloody hell, what a pedant.

Indeed it was below 29.00 on the chart for a few days, no 28.20 as you claim above and for sure no 27.00 as you previously claimed.

And that is a difference of 7%, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[JesseFrank]

I just walked to Ratchawat market close to where I stay in Bangkok.

I bought one kilo of Rambutan 30 Baht, one kilo of Mangosteen 25 Baht, some fried banana and so 20 Baht, one ice coffee 20 Baht. That's 95 Baht already and I didn't buy anything special.

Now imagine 300 Baht a day for you, and your wife, and your two small children who go to school ... ...

OK,

32bht for 1Kgof Bread flour, 32bht, that's 2-3 loaves of bread (or 15 bread rolls).

99bht for 5Kg of white rice, a lot of meals worth (say 25 meals).

34bht for 300gmof chicken breast from Tesco, about 6 curries worth.

79bht for 1Kg of frozen french fries, Tescos own (10 meals).

Yellow Mango, 20bht for 1Kg.

(these were all items I purchased in the last 2 days)

About 270bht so far. Sauce/spice for the food, I already had.

Children are given free meals at government school if aged between 5 and 13.

You can live well on small amounts of money if you choose carefully.

Looking at what you bought and how many meals you do with it, I assume your body weight is 35 Kg.

[rubl]

You can live well on small amounts of money if you choose have to be carefully.

Come the next school season with school uniforms, books, small illnesses, some toys, the occasional family outing to a aircon-ed mall and sharing the snacks prepared at home to save money, and so and.

I'm always careful with my money, most sensible people are.

Not a case of "having to".

Illness is fixed free of charge.

Uniforms and books, many make do with second hand, the really poor get government hand outs.

Ever watched Thai children from poor families, they don't have toys (as we think of them in the west).

Outings are a trip to the nearest riverbank, where dad can fish (free food) and the kids can splash.

Malls, aren't for the poor.

To be fair, irresponsible as I can be at times I just walked to 7/11 to buy some orange juice and then walked to a shop near to buy two big bottles of Chang (52B/b). In total this offset me by 125 Baht. Mind you, Bangkok is expensive

[AnotherOneAmerican]

To be fair, irresponsible as I can be at times I just walked to 7/11 to buy some orange juice and then walked to a shop near to buy two big bottles of Chang (52B/b). In total this offset me by 125 Baht. Mind you, Bangkok is expensive

I don't drink alcoholic drinks, but if I did, it wouldn't be Chang.

Don't like sweetened OJ either, spoilt by the choice in the USA.

3l of water for 1.5bht would be a much more healthy choice for your body.

Edited July 12, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[mesquite]

Regarding the minimum wage, why not raise it to 500 USD/ HOUR, worldwide?

That way we'd all be rich!

(No, I'm just kidding and trying to show the absurdity of minimum wage legislation.)

[rubl]

To be fair, irresponsible as I can be at times I just walked to 7/11 to buy some orange juice and then walked to a shop near to buy two big bottles of Chang (52B/b). In total this offset me by 125 Baht. Mind you, Bangkok is expensive

I don't drink alcoholic drinks, but if I did, it wouldn't be Chang.

Don't like sweetened OJ either, spoilt by the choice in the USA.

3l of water for 1.5bht would be a much more healthy choice for your body.

You sound like my doctor

I also drink lots of water, from the tap so that might be the 3ltr/1.5B you mentioned.

Edited July 12, 2014 by rubl

[beautifulthailand99]

I asked my wife how much a fresh chicken was in Thailand - she said about 150 baht which is half the minimum wage which will buy 2 chickens - by contrast in the UK the minimum wage is circa £50 a day and a fresh chicken (not free range) is about £5 so she could buy 10 chickens. Thailand pairng mahk mahk. Beer is now cheaper in UK supermarkets in real terms than beer in Thai supermarkets. How the ordinary folk get by in Thailand staggers me sometimes.

[Pralaad]

Speaking as the MD of a Thailand branch office, and from my own experience of managing a factory that employs Thais of various skills, I can tell you that business owners have indeed had to work harder since the introduction of the minimum wage. We are having to train staff and look at ways of making them more productive. They benefit from this by improving their skills, and so do we by improving our operational efficiency and differentiating ourselves from the competition.

Now, other than using vague generalities to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, what are your credentials to lecture me on economics, may I ask?

I don't believe you have any.

In other words what you trying to say is that you had to fire a few people and the ones that you kept had to actually do some work?

So instead of having 3 men do a job of one, you had to cut back to 2 men and train them to do the job of the 3rd?

Clearly my credentials are no where as impressive as yours, i am only a Director, Owner and Founder of 2 company's with around 150 staff.

I worked silly hours before the wage rise, during the wage rise and after the wage rise, because the never ending supply of lazy people who want to do as little as possible but get paid as much as possible is a never ending problem for any business in Thailand.

Because wage rise, did nothing to get them to do more work, if anything they started to do less, but play more on their phones and work for shorter periods of time.

Instead of staying in the same job for at least 4 months, they now stay 1 month, if lucky 2 month.

Now you do need to educate me here a little, you said you were MD of a branch, this means you do not own the company right?

So YOU had to do more work, i would assume OWNERS did not. Am correct in my assumption? because i do not understand much about corporate structure or economics

So if owners did not have to do more work, an esteemed MD like yourself did, which no doubt you did not do, but delegated it down the line to floor or line manager, how does your post prove the point of owners doing more work?

Edited July 12, 2014 by Pralaad

[ikke]

Funny how those with a nice fat bank account are the first to criticize raising wages. "What? I have to pay my servants more? no way!" Let have those driving the BMWs and Benzes live on 300 baht a day, even for one week. Suicides would increase 500%.

You are at least socialist and one very close to communist !

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I asked my wife how much a fresh chicken was in Thailand - she said about 150 baht which is half the minimum wage which will buy 2 chickens - by contrast in the UK the minimum wage is circa £50 a day and a fresh chicken (not free range) is about £5 so she could buy 10 chickens. Thailand pairng mahk mahk. Beer is now cheaper in UK supermarkets in real terms than beer in Thai supermarkets. How the ordinary folk get by in Thailand staggers me sometimes.

But before you get to keep any of your UK minimum wage, you need to deduct NI, PAYE and council tax.

In Thailand the deductions from your 300bht would be, errrr, nothing.

[h90]

I guess the reason that the cost of living is higher is to a large extent due to the steep rise in minimum wage. If so, raising the minimum wage further might not have the desired effect.

No because not only makes it everything more expensive, it reduces Thailands competitiveness. Some companies move to Cambodia. And low paid immigrants without rights take over jobs.

To increase salaries you must improve education. Automatically better educated will earn more. Less educated will work more on machines than manual and also getting higher salary....downside it needs years and it isn't be done with a simple law.

[h90]

I asked my wife how much a fresh chicken was in Thailand - she said about 150 baht which is half the minimum wage which will buy 2 chickens - by contrast in the UK the minimum wage is circa £50 a day and a fresh chicken (not free range) is about £5 so she could buy 10 chickens. Thailand pairng mahk mahk. Beer is now cheaper in UK supermarkets in real terms than beer in Thai supermarkets. How the ordinary folk get by in Thailand staggers me sometimes.

And now ask your wife how much a chicken was before the Thaksin monopolized the chicken production (laws that effectively forbid to rise chicken for private persons because of the bird flue). I can't remember the price increase but it was surely triple.

Before Thais earned less money but the costs were even less. Over the last years the food prices got more and more Europe like but the salaries increased way slower.

The only way to increase salaries now would be to devalue the Baht at the same time (which is basically taking money from the rich).

[JesseFrank]

I asked my wife how much a fresh chicken was in Thailand - she said about 150 baht which is half the minimum wage which will buy 2 chickens - by contrast in the UK the minimum wage is circa £50 a day and a fresh chicken (not free range) is about £5 so she could buy 10 chickens. Thailand pairng mahk mahk. Beer is now cheaper in UK supermarkets in real terms than beer in Thai supermarkets. How the ordinary folk get by in Thailand staggers me sometimes.

But before you get to keep any of your UK minimum wage, you need to deduct NI, PAYE and council tax.

In Thailand the deductions from your 300bht would be, errrr, nothing.

Sure, but after all those deductions he still can buy at least 5 chickens, and on top of that he get a subsidy when he loses his job and other benefits.

[Thanet]

Speaking as the MD of a Thailand branch office, and from my own experience of managing a factory that employs Thais of various skills, I can tell you that business owners have indeed had to work harder since the introduction of the minimum wage. We are having to train staff and look at ways of making them more productive. They benefit from this by improving their skills, and so do we by improving our operational efficiency and differentiating ourselves from the competition.

Now, other than using vague generalities to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, what are your credentials to lecture me on economics, may I ask?

I don't believe you have any.

In other words what you trying to say is that you had to fire a few people and the ones that you kept had to actually do some work?

So instead of having 3 men do a job of one, you had to cut back to 2 men and train them to do the job of the 3rd?

Clearly my credentials are no where as impressive as yours, i am only a Director, Owner and Founder of 2 company's with around 150 staff.

I worked silly hours before the wage rise, during the wage rise and after the wage rise, because the never ending supply of lazy people who want to do as little as possible but get paid as much as possible is a never ending problem for any business in Thailand.

Because wage rise, did nothing to get them to do more work, if anything they started to do less, but play more on their phones and work for shorter periods of time.

Instead of staying in the same job for at least 4 months, they now stay 1 month, if lucky 2 month.

Now you do need to educate me here a little, you said you were MD of a branch, this means you do not own the company right?

So YOU had to do more work, i would assume OWNERS did not. Am correct in my assumption? because i do not understand much about corporate structure or economics

So if owners did not have to do more work, an esteemed MD like yourself did, which no doubt you did not do, but delegated it down the line to floor or line manager, how does your post prove the point of owners doing more work?

It sounds like your business is going down the gurgler and that you can only compete by paying your staff a pittance. You are resentful when they pack up and leave. The world changes, and you have to change with it. Thais have aspirations, and are no longer content to be paid peanuts. They move on if you don't pay them properly.

I've always found that if you pay staff the market rate, and treat them well, they work hard in return.

I'm sure that if the boot were on the other foot, you wouldn't work for a company that didn't pay the market rate. From your own description of your problems, it sounds as if your staff are unhappy working for you, and are moving on to places where they are paid well and are happy working.

A fair days work for a fair days pay is not a new concept, and you should try it out in your business.That's economics at its most rudest and crudest. Working for money is a numbers game, right?

Have you considered management training?

Edited July 12, 2014 by Thanet

[Pralaad]

Speaking as the MD of a Thailand branch office, and from my own experience of managing a factory that employs Thais of various skills, I can tell you that business owners have indeed had to work harder since the introduction of the minimum wage. We are having to train staff and look at ways of making them more productive. They benefit from this by improving their skills, and so do we by improving our operational efficiency and differentiating ourselves from the competition.

Now, other than using vague generalities to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, what are your credentials to lecture me on economics, may I ask?

I don't believe you have any.

In other words what you trying to say is that you had to fire a few people and the ones that you kept had to actually do some work?

So instead of having 3 men do a job of one, you had to cut back to 2 men and train them to do the job of the 3rd?

Clearly my credentials are no where as impressive as yours, i am only a Director, Owner and Founder of 2 company's with around 150 staff.

I worked silly hours before the wage rise, during the wage rise and after the wage rise, because the never ending supply of lazy people who want to do as little as possible but get paid as much as possible is a never ending problem for any business in Thailand.

Because wage rise, did nothing to get them to do more work, if anything they started to do less, but play more on their phones and work for shorter periods of time.

Instead of staying in the same job for at least 4 months, they now stay 1 month, if lucky 2 month.

Now you do need to educate me here a little, you said you were MD of a branch, this means you do not own the company right?

So YOU had to do more work, i would assume OWNERS did not. Am correct in my assumption? because i do not understand much about corporate structure or economics

So if owners did not have to do more work, an esteemed MD like yourself did, which no doubt you did not do, but delegated it down the line to floor or line manager, how does your post prove the point of owners doing more work?

It sounds like your business is going down the gurgler and that you can only compete by paying your staff a pittance. You are resentful when they pack up and leave. The world changes, and you have to change with it. Thais have aspirations, and are no longer content to be paid peanuts. They move on if you don't pay them properly. We pay our staff the market rate, and they work hard for us in return.

I'm sure that if the boot were on the other foot, you would do likewise, and from your own description of your problems, it sounds as if your staff are unhappy working for you, and are moving on to places where they are happy working.

A fair days work for a fair days pay is not a new concept, and you should try it out in your business.That's economics at its most rudest and crudest, right?

Have you considered management training?

I thank you for your business assessment, ONLY i did not ask for one,

I thought i was pretty clear to ask you to clarify your statement that owners work harder.

You have managed to create a great job for yourself, but for some reason you are failing to answer simple questions.

Is it not part of your job description of MD to be able to answer or explain simple question.

So please be kind enough to respond and address the actual issues raised.

PS, Why would i bother even considering any kind of training, when i can employ someone like you for peanuts and have you doing all the work, while i sit back and enjoy the money you make for me

PPS, you pay your staff market rate? Do you mean 9000 per month? or do you mean 400-500 baht per hour? Lets see how great vivid imagination can be

Edited July 12, 2014 by Pralaad

[Thanet]

Speaking as the MD of a Thailand branch office, and from my own experience of managing a factory that employs Thais of various skills, I can tell you that business owners have indeed had to work harder since the introduction of the minimum wage. We are having to train staff and look at ways of making them more productive. They benefit from this by improving their skills, and so do we by improving our operational efficiency and differentiating ourselves from the competition.

Now, other than using vague generalities to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, what are your credentials to lecture me on economics, may I ask?

I don't believe you have any.

In other words what you trying to say is that you had to fire a few people and the ones that you kept had to actually do some work?

So instead of having 3 men do a job of one, you had to cut back to 2 men and train them to do the job of the 3rd?

Clearly my credentials are no where as impressive as yours, i am only a Director, Owner and Founder of 2 company's with around 150 staff.

I worked silly hours before the wage rise, during the wage rise and after the wage rise, because the never ending supply of lazy people who want to do as little as possible but get paid as much as possible is a never ending problem for any business in Thailand.

Because wage rise, did nothing to get them to do more work, if anything they started to do less, but play more on their phones and work for shorter periods of time.

Instead of staying in the same job for at least 4 months, they now stay 1 month, if lucky 2 month.

Now you do need to educate me here a little, you said you were MD of a branch, this means you do not own the company right?

So YOU had to do more work, i would assume OWNERS did not. Am correct in my assumption? because i do not understand much about corporate structure or economics

So if owners did not have to do more work, an esteemed MD like yourself did, which no doubt you did not do, but delegated it down the line to floor or line manager, how does your post prove the point of owners doing more work?

It sounds like your business is going down the gurgler and that you can only compete by paying your staff a pittance. You are resentful when they pack up and leave. The world changes, and you have to change with it. Thais have aspirations, and are no longer content to be paid peanuts. They move on if you don't pay them properly. We pay our staff the market rate, and they work hard for us in return.

I'm sure that if the boot were on the other foot, you would do likewise, and from your own description of your problems, it sounds as if your staff are unhappy working for you, and are moving on to places where they are happy working.

A fair days work for a fair days pay is not a new concept, and you should try it out in your business.That's economics at its most rudest and crudest, right?

Have you considered management training?

I thank you for your business assessment, ONLY i did not ask for one,

I thought i was pretty clear to ask you to clarify your statement that owners work harder.

You have managed to create a great job for yourself, but for some reason you are failing to answer simple questions.

Is it not part of your job description of MD to be able to answer or explain simple question.

So please be kind enough to respond and address the actual issues raised.

PS, Why would i bother even considering any kind of training, when i can employ someone like you for peanuts and have you doing all the work, while i sit back and enjoy the money you make for me

PPS, you pay your staff market rate? Do you mean 9000 per month? or do you mean 400-500 baht per hour? Lets see how great vivid imagination can be

The issue that started this conversation was you telling me that I knew nothing about economics when I inferred that another poster here was voicing an opinion in ignorance of living on the minimum wage. I had no quarrel with you.

As I said the world changes. Commercial realities, as you very well know, are based purely on numbers, which are exact and have no sympathy whatsoever. Those who can't change with the world are toast.

Good luck.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Thanet

[Pralaad]

The issue that started this conversation was you telling me that I know nothing about economics. I had no quarrel with you.

As I said the world changes. If you can't change with it, then you are toast.

Good luck.

Oh no, sorry is not going to be so easy for you now.

Please be kind enough to answer.

You stated, you pay staff market rate, so you pay staff 9000 baht month, being market rate in Thailand or 400-500 baht per hour being market rate in the West

You stated owners work harder when wage rises, you are not an owner, it is clear you have never been one and i am certain you are NOT MD or even in senior managements. I know you are NOT MD or a senior manager, because MD or senior management does not train factory floor workers.

So please do answer simple questions put to you, after all you are claiming to know what OWNERS do, because you are apparently MD of a branch.

[Thanet]

The issue that started this conversation was you telling me that I know nothing about economics. I had no quarrel with you.

As I said the world changes. If you can't change with it, then you are toast.

Good luck.

Oh no, sorry is not going to be so easy for you now.

Please be kind enough to answer.

You stated, you pay staff market rate, so you pay staff 9000 baht month, being market rate in Thailand or 400-500 baht per hour being market rate in the West

You stated owners work harder when wage rises, you are not an owner, it is clear you have never been one and i am certain you are NOT MD or even in senior managements. I know you are NOT MD or a senior manager, because MD or senior management does not train factory floor workers.

So please do answer simple questions put to you, after all you are claiming to know what OWNERS do, because you are apparently MD of a branch.

Sorry buddy - you are basing your ongoing argument on an assumption that you yourself have incorrectly made.

An MD (or any other person for that matter) of a subsidiary company can indeed own equity in said juristic person. The holding company does not have to own all the shares. Am I right?

Anyway, hold on to your best staff and stop living in the past. Otherwise, you'll be spaded under by the cruel hand of progress like so many before you.

[Pralaad]

The issue that started this conversation was you telling me that I know nothing about economics. I had no quarrel with you.

As I said the world changes. If you can't change with it, then you are toast.

Good luck.

Oh no, sorry is not going to be so easy for you now.

Please be kind enough to answer.

You stated, you pay staff market rate, so you pay staff 9000 baht month, being market rate in Thailand or 400-500 baht per hour being market rate in the West

You stated owners work harder when wage rises, you are not an owner, it is clear you have never been one and i am certain you are NOT MD or even in senior managements. I know you are NOT MD or a senior manager, because MD or senior management does not train factory floor workers.

So please do answer simple questions put to you, after all you are claiming to know what OWNERS do, because you are apparently MD of a branch.

Sorry buddy - you are basing your ongoing argument on an assumption that you yourself have incorrectly made.

An MD (or any other person for that matter) of a subsidiary company can indeed own equity in said juristic person. The holding company does not have to own all the shares. Am I right?

Anyway, hold on to your best staff and stop living in the past. Otherwise, you'll be spaded under by the cruel hand of progress like so many before you.

, thank you, you have provided enough answers ,

[Thanet]

The issue that started this conversation was you telling me that I know nothing about economics. I had no quarrel with you.

As I said the world changes. If you can't change with it, then you are toast.

Good luck.

Oh no, sorry is not going to be so easy for you now.

Please be kind enough to answer.

You stated, you pay staff market rate, so you pay staff 9000 baht month, being market rate in Thailand or 400-500 baht per hour being market rate in the West

You stated owners work harder when wage rises, you are not an owner, it is clear you have never been one and i am certain you are NOT MD or even in senior managements. I know you are NOT MD or a senior manager, because MD or senior management does not train factory floor workers.

So please do answer simple questions put to you, after all you are claiming to know what OWNERS do, because you are apparently MD of a branch.

Sorry buddy - you are basing your ongoing argument on an assumption that you yourself have incorrectly made.

An MD (or any other person for that matter) of a subsidiary company can indeed own equity in said juristic person. The holding company does not have to own all the shares. Am I right?

Anyway, hold on to your best staff and stop living in the past. Otherwise, you'll be spaded under by the cruel hand of progress like so many before you.

, thank you, you have provided enough answers ,

And you've evidently run out of them

[rubl]

Now whereas the discussion on the THB/US$ exchange rate is interesting, most Thai people and especially those trying to survive on 300 Baht / day couldn't care less as they somehow got other worries, like how to feed their kids, how to get them dressed properly, how to try to prepare them better for this cruel world where 'all are equal' is only true in theory but not in practise.

[NeverSure]

Has it not been established that in every society there is an economic ladder with someone on the bottom? If you raise the ladder, that person will still be on the bottom.

If the minimum wage was, in all "fairness" raised to 100,000 baht per day, soon a loaf of bread would cost 40,000 baht to pay for the labor of growing the wheat, transporting, selling it, making the bread, paying people to sell it...

The only way for a nation to become wealthier is to create more wealth to go around. Thais can't do that. They work for other countries which know how to create new wealth. They work in a factory as cheap labor making things for Toyota or Intel who are creating and exporting the new wealth by converting raw materials into something valuable (wealth.)

The best the Thais have been able to do is to pirate other countries' inventions, i.e. steal copies of Windows, sell cheap knockoffs made in China, or make cheap copies of trademarked items.

The Thais are so far away in core education and independent thinking, they are followers and blame things on ghosts. It isn't possible to wave a magic wand and create prosperity for the masses.