Israel prepares for ground military operation, 98 dead in Gaza Strip airstrikes

[johna]

 

See, this is where the problem lies - people like you actually believe that this 66 year figure is relevant in the context of thousands of years.

No the problem is that the Jews were there long before the Palestinians to start with - over three thousand years - and that they have a viable country that is thriving economically. They have been recognized by the UN and they have won numerous wars against their enemies. Whether people like you like it, or not, they are not going anywhere.  

 

We know the Israelis are not going any where, what we want is Israel to pull back to its 1967 borders, and allow a Palestinian state, but god has commanded the Israelis otherwise, could this passage be your only claim to Israeli existence. 

 

“However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites — as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God” (Deuteronomy 20:16-18

 

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

See, this is where the problem lies - people like you actually believe that this 66 year figure is relevant in the context of thousands of years.

No the problem is that the Jews were there long before the Palestinians to start with - over three thousand years - and that they have a viable country that is thriving economically. They have been recognized by the UN and they have won numerous wars against their enemies. Whether people like you like it, or not, they are not going anywhere.  

 

We know the Israelis are not going any where, what we want is Israel to pull back to its 1967 borders, and allow a Palestinian state, but god has commanded the Israelis otherwise, could this passage be your only claim to Israeli existence.

 

It has little to do with God and what you want doesn't matter. The largest group if Israelis are secular and not religious. The Palestinians already turned down the 67 borders when they had the chance. They have been waging war ever since and LOSING. That ship has already sailed and long ago.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

UN:  77% of the dead in Gaza are civilians.

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/12/israel-northern-gaza-evacuate_n_5580851.html

 

I actually followed your link.

The 77% figure appearing in is further linked to a BBC article (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28279562).

The 77% figure appearing in the BBC link (as a UN estimate) is further linked to the UN OCHA report :

http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_sitrep_11_07_2014.pdf

 

In the report itself, the figures are first dubbed as "preliminary data collected by the Protection Cluster from various sources."

So it "preliminary", rather than conclusive. The word "estimate" is repeated in various forms.  As for "various sources" - the very next line cited figures from the Palestinian Ministry of Health (MoH). Further estimates are attributed to "Palestinian human rights organizations". The question may be raised if these sources provide a valid and impartial view.

 

This is actually a good example of how media changes perception of something originally self-defined as "preliminary" and "estimate", to a concrete fact. Same goes for the source itself, which is not exactly the UN as such, but a report by a local branch of a UN agency (OCHA), citing local sources, with clear affiliations.

 

The report does not seem to have much to say about Hamas actions and how they effect the situation of the civilians in the Gaza Strip.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Scott

[Morch]

 

 

 

 

"Terrorism is the deliberate use of violence aimed against civilians in order to achieve political ends."

Hamas are a terrorist group. They purposely target innocent civilians.

 

 
Something Israel with the help of the US is of course not doing, right?

 

Right. Israel does not target civilians. Hamas DOES. You really should read the rest of the thread before responding.

 

Total rubbish my dear! If Israel does not target civilians, so why UN: 77% of the dead in Gaza are civilians ?? Bad, non-functioning weapons? Some civilians by pure chance standing in front of military people? Just some non-important collateral damage? Go ahead and put your justification out here or just shut up!

 

 

Even the report does not say Israel targets civilians, at best it calls it indiscriminate shooting. I do not think that it outright

states Israel intentionally targets civilians. The 77% civilian casualty figure, which will undoubtedly be repeated from now

on as fact, appears on the actual report as "preliminary", "an estimate" and is based on Palestinian sources (such as the

Ministry of Health), which are not always objective sources.

 

Among the reasons for the casualties you somehow fail to mention that the Gaza Strip is a densely populated urban zone,

and that Hamas knowingly utilizes the population, residential areas, and public buildings (hospitals, schools, mosques) as

protection for its own going actions. This is by no means a one way street.
 

[Morch]

 

 

 

^^ There you go again - denying the rights of the indigenous people. 

 

It's appalling. 

 

Asinine. Who are these "indigenous people" and where did they come from? If you mean the "Palestinian" imposters, they sure aren't indigenous.

 

There never was a people called Palestinians until after WWII when this bloody terrorist group hijacked the name from the old name of Palestine which was an area that included several countries.

 

There never was a country called Palestine and there never were, and there aren't Palestinians. They aren't even imposters. They are name inventors.

 

 

I think it is rather immaterial now.  The Palestinians, under one name or another have their roots in the area. The Jews do as well.

 

Getting into a pissing contest about who was first, or who has more historical/religious right to the land is all very nice, but the reality nowadays is that both got a valid claim. Denying the other side existence as a people, or denial of other side's right to exist are both unacceptable, and lead nowhere.
 

 

 

Correct -  

 

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the settlers in Israel have zero connection to the country.  They are European and have been for a thousand years or more. 

 

This entire imbroglio is a European creation now backed by monstrous right-wing Christian zealots who have the temerity to say that 1947 is the only year that matters.  I can't be bothered going into all that but anyone with a brain can see how morally abhorrent that position is.

 

As far as I'm concerned, as a Brit, I would issue every single European settler in Israel a British passport and invite them to come live among us. We Brits, especially the English, owe the Jewish people a historical apology for expelling them. It was an aberration of our historical declaration of the freedom of men enshrined in the Magna Carta and the Declaration of Arbroath.

 

The Jews shouldn't be in Israel, they should be here living under our protection while they await the Last Days, and their calling  by God.

 

The UN Resolution of 1947 was not God's calling.  There are millions of Jews that agree with that. 

 

 

No, that is not a fact.

Most of the people living in Israel were born there. Many are not second or third generation, some more.

Not all are of European origin, many trace their ancestry to Muslim countries in the Middle East and North Africa.

 

The nowadays Palestinians do not, for the most part, have a much different connection with the land. Most of them

were not around a thousand years ago (if that is your currently favored time frame, hard to keep track). Checking

both ancestry and surnames, it is not that hard to track down the origins of many Palestinians - mostly form other

countries in the Middle East and a bit further afield.

 

Claims to the land based on ancient history aside, there are currently two people on this smallish piece of real estate.

Neither is going anywhere, regardless of the other side's wished or outsiders conceptions and views on their claims,

history and connection to the land.

 

The last bit is rather more muddled then the rest of your posts - when did the UK expel the Jews? Or is this generous

offer supposed to include any Jew, with whatever ancestry who currently lives in Israel?

And if the 1947 resolution is not to your liking - what does it mean for the Palestinian state to be? Its creation is also

based upon the same resolution. Or is this another instance of cherry picking the parts of UN related issues which

fit the bill?

[Morch]

 

 

If Israel does not target civilians, so why UN: 77% of the dead in Gaza are civilians ??

You better start watching the news before making ignorant comments. 
Number one, those figure come out of a hat. Hamas do not wear uniforms, so there is no way to tell who is who at this point in time.
Number two, Hamas has been encouraging civilians to ignore warnings of airstrikes and some have been rushing into buildings that were about to be hit, so that they could become "martyrs" and be guaranteed those 72 virgins. The blame for civilian deaths goes to Hamas.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s

 

 

If people rush voluntarily into the buildings then Hamas are not to blame. 

 

I bet you're the kind of guy that would eulogize Americans that gave up their lives to further the cause of nationhood, at lets say - The Alamo? 

 

Do you really understand how morally bankrupt your stance is? 

 

 

Even is Hamas was not actively encouraging them to do so (in one way or another), even if Hamas was not calling civilians to disregard Israeli warnings before incoming attacks - as the ruling authority in charge of the Gaza Strip, is it not the Hamas responsibility to protect its own people?

 

Most governments will not allow civilians to throw themselves in harm's way, will not take actions (such as using residential area to stage military operations) endangering their civilians, or will consider the consequences of taking arms against a  superior force might have on their people.

 

But do go on preaching on morals...
 

[Morch]

 

 

If Israel does not target civilians, so why UN: 77% of the dead in Gaza are civilians ??

You better start watching the news before making ignorant comments. 
Number one, those figure come out of a hat. Hamas do not wear uniforms, so there is no way to tell who is who at this point in time.
Number two, Hamas has been encouraging civilians to ignore warnings of airstrikes and some have been rushing into buildings that were about to be hit, so that they could become "martyrs" and be guaranteed those 72 virgins. The blame for civilian deaths goes to Hamas.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s

 

 

Those figures came from the UN.

 

Israel is murdering women and children.
 

 

 

Rinse, repeat. If you keep at it long enough it will solidify into the fact which it isn't now.

Do take the time to read the sources for your own posts and links provided by yourself before re-hashing them

as undisputed reality.
 

[Morch]

 

 

 

Those figures came from the UN.

 

Would the UN hypocrites ever lie about Israel?
 

 

 

The thread would be better served if we all avoided tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories.
 

 

 

That obviously applies just to tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories that are at odds with other tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories.  Right?
 

[Morch]

 

 

The UN calls for a ceasefire, but Israel is intent on continuing its ethnic cleansing campaign.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/12/un-security-council-gaza-ceasefire-call
 
 
 
 

 
As deplorable as many Israeli political decisions have been over the past decades  (e.g. the settlements on the West Bank) your characterization of Israeli policy as ethnic cleansing shows both your biases and your ignorance. As failed as I perceive the politics of Netanyahu, I recognize that it has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing.

Go visit Israel some time, they're shipping out Ethiopian Jews like it's going out of fashion. YouTube if you like!

 

 

Where is that facepalm emoticon when you need it.  Israel is not shipping out Ethiopian Jews - Israel has major issues with illegal immigration flow from certain  African countries, most notably Sudan and Eritrea. This illegal immigrants are not Jews, but either Christian or Muslim. Furthermore, while Israeli authorities would have liked to apply heavy handed actions, so far the

Israeli supreme court and local NGO's have curbed quite a bit of it.

 

Seems like that racist slur sort of backfired there.  Now go and educate yourself some before making another silly remark:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_from_Africa_to_Israel

 

Also, I'm pretty sure you haven't been anywhere near Israel yourself lately if you're making such claims.

[up-country_sinclair]

Disabled Palestinians unable to escape Israeli air strike

International pressure to curb civilian casualties is mounting as a charitable centre in Gaza is destroyed in an Israeli attack

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/12/disabled-palestinians-unable-escape-israeli-air-strike

 

 

This is beyond disgraceful.  The UN needs to act now to stop this murderous aggression and then initiate war crimes tribunals.

Edited July 14, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[up-country_sinclair]

Taken from the same article linked in my post above:

 

The death toll in Gaza, which included a significant number of civilians, rose overnight to more than 130 after five days of bombing and artillery bombardment, with almost 1,000 injured. There have been no fatalities in Israel.

 

 

[Morch]

 

 

The UN calls for a ceasefire, but Israel is intent on continuing its ethnic cleansing campaign.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/12/un-security-council-gaza-ceasefire-call

 

 

 

 

 

As deplorable as many Israeli political decisions have been over the past decades  (e.g. the settlements on the West Bank) your characterization of Israeli policy as ethnic cleansing shows both your biases and your ignorance. As failed as I perceive the politics of Netanyahu, I recognize that it has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing.

 

 

Take it up with the UN human rights recorder:

 

Richard Falk, United Nations special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories, told a news conference that Israeli policies bore "unacceptable characteristics of colonialism, apartheid and ethnic cleansing".

 

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/21/uk-palestinian-israel-un-idUKBREA2K1JM20140321

 

 

That wouldn't be the UN as in the UNHRC, would it? That UN body supposed to monitor human rights globally, and yet somehow manages to have just under half of its country specific resolutions deal with Israel?  One would have thought that there are other evils out there...   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Human_Rights_Council

 

And that wouldn't be the same Richard Falk who was a fan of Khomeini, routinely anti-Israel before his appointment to his current post and a believer in 9/11 conspiracy theories?   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Falk

 

Wonder why even the UN chief finds it necessary to criticize both....

 

Any more objective and impartial sources up your sleeve?

[Scott]

Let's please keep the discussion civil.  

[Ulysses G.]

Any more objective and impartial sources up your sleeve?

Has he ever produced one? Quoting Richard Falk as credible source, the guy who posts anti-Semitic cartoons on his blog and who the Palestinian Authority has asked to resign, calling him "a partisan of Hamas". The UN hypocrites need to stay out of it.

[Ulysses G.]

In the report itself, the figures are first dubbed as "preliminary data collected by the Protection Cluster from various sources." So it "preliminary", rather than conclusive. The word "estimate" is repeated in various forms.  As for "various sources" - the very next line cited figures from the Palestinian Ministry of Health (MoH). Further estimates are attributed to "Palestinian human rights organizations".

As I said before, the figures are pulled from a - very biased - hat.

[Morch]

 

 

The thread would be better served if we all avoided tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories.

Like claiming that Israel is purposely targeting civilians, despite the overwhelming evidence otherwise. 

 

 

They might not be deliberately targeting them, but they certainly shed no tears over the civilians they kill.

 

 

Who would "they" be? The Israeli government? The Israeli public as a whole? Segments of Israeli society?  Not much public festivities with government encouragement and participation in Israel when Hamas takes a hit, compare with general public reactions and leadership announcements (particularly when it comes to the Hamas and the Gaza Strip) when the Israelis suffer a blow.

 

There is actually quite a sizable opposition in Israel (with or without including Arab citizens) which does not automatically condone each and every government action, often raising vocal criticism of same. On the other side of the fence...not much of that.
 

[Morch]

 

Disabled Palestinians unable to escape Israeli air strike

International pressure to curb civilian casualties is mounting as a charitable centre in Gaza is destroyed in an Israeli attack

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/12/disabled-palestinians-unable-escape-israeli-air-strike

 

 

This is beyond disgraceful.  The UN needs to act now to stop this murderous aggression and then initiate war crimes tribunals.

 

 

If your point was that in warfare, especially one conducted in urban residential areas, the civilians suffer - this is true. Nothing stopping the Hamas from relocating its activities, headquarters and personnel to designated areas, thereby greatly reducing the risk to civilian lives.
 

[Ulysses G.]

There are plenty of left-wingers in Israel that are very concerned about the human rights of Palestinians - even if they are the enemy - and plenty of people on the left and right felt bad about the kid who was killed as revenge for the three Israeli teenagers allegedly murdered by Hamas.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Pattszero]

There are plenty of left-wingers in Israel that are very concerned about the human rights of Palestinians - even if they are the enemy - and plenty of people on the left and right felt bad about the kid who was killed as revenge for the three Israeli teenagers allegedly murdered by Hamas.

 

Maybe if you would stop looking at them as the enemy things might change, huh? 

[Ulysses G.]

How can a terrorist organization that is calling for your complete destruction. and showering you with rockets, not be your enemy? Wake up. 

Edited July 14, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Seastallion]

 

As usual Israel and its great army are doing war against civilians . Reminder , this state is occupying for more than 50 years and stealing land from another country , it does not respect even  basic international laws , it wants to completely annex palestine and does want peace at all, other wise it will not continue to steel land to make new settlements.The result is an apartheid system with ghettos like gaza which has and will have a boomerang effect.
Its lobby is so powerful that they never get international sanctions and are not sue for crime against humanity.
 

You need to catch up with current times . Israel does not build in Gaza , does not control Gaza , does not want Gaza .

Hamas is in control of Gaza , so your concerns of Gaza being turned into ghetto should be taken up with them and with brothers across the border in Egypt.

May be if Hamas spent all Iranian money on its people instead of financing their terror attacks than Gaza would not be a ghetto

If you going to post hatred at least make sure to have some factual information

 

YOU need to catch up with the current times! Israel has created the ghetto of Gaza, one of the most densely populated places on earth, barricading the civilians inside concrete walls, forbidding basic human needs as well as "luxuries" such as dates and cinnamon, colouring pencils for kids, and a whole list of normal items.

Petermach is referring to the Westbank, and in fact, all of Palestine (except Gaza). He is citing facts. It is you who should acquaint himself with the facts.

If YOU are going to post hate-propagating things, make sure it is based on factual information.

[Pralaad]

 

 

As usual Israel and its great army are doing war against civilians . Reminder , this state is occupying for more than 50 years and stealing land from another country , it does not respect even  basic international laws , it wants to completely annex palestine and does want peace at all, other wise it will not continue to steel land to make new settlements.The result is an apartheid system with ghettos like gaza which has and will have a boomerang effect.
Its lobby is so powerful that they never get international sanctions and are not sue for crime against humanity.

You need to catch up with current times . Israel does not build in Gaza , does not control Gaza , does not want Gaza .

Hamas is in control of Gaza , so your concerns of Gaza being turned into ghetto should be taken up with them and with brothers across the border in Egypt.

May be if Hamas spent all Iranian money on its people instead of financing their terror attacks than Gaza would not be a ghetto

If you going to post hatred at least make sure to have some factual information

 

YOU need to catch up with the current times! Israel has created the ghetto of Gaza, one of the most densely populated places on earth, barricading the civilians inside concrete walls, forbidding basic human needs as well as "luxuries" such as dates and cinnamon, colouring pencils for kids, and a whole list of normal items.
Petermach is referring to the Westbank, and in fact, all of Palestine (except Gaza). He is citing facts. It is you who should acquaint himself with the facts.
If YOU are going to post hate-propagating things, make sure it is based on factual information.

 

Sorry to spoil your delusion.

Hamas has created the ghetto of Gaza, no need to scapegoat

What Israel does at its borders is Israel's business.

If Hamas could not bring your basic human needs through Israeli borders, they could always bring it in through Egyptian border, who happens to be their brothers.

Oh but wait, they could not. Now why is that?

 

PS. now which part of this would you like to dispute or consider factually incorrect?

Edited July 14, 2014 by Pralaad

[bina]

And it is the Israeli Electric Company that supplies the electricity and the palestinian Govt owes the company money on top of it all

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Johpa]

*Deleted post edited out*

 

Israelis inherited the mess after 1967 and became a caretaker of that same mess, with no real clue, nor understanding, on how to deal with the disaster that is Gaza. Then the Israelis vacated Gaza in the hopes of "land for peace" which of course produced nothing resembling peace but one result was the near extinguishing of the Israeli peace movement.   And of course the Palestinians were also unable to come up with an answer because there is no clear solution.  The Gazans own inability to come up with an answer led to the internal conflict between Hamas and the PA which led to more civilian  deaths than any Israeli incursion or attack.  And the beat goes on....

Edited July 15, 2014 by Scott
Deleted post edited out

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic, inflammatory and troll posts have been removed along with replies.   If you wish to post, please be civil and stay on the topic.  

[Morch]

 

 

As usual Israel and its great army are doing war against civilians . Reminder , this state is occupying for more than 50 years and stealing land from another country , it does not respect even  basic international laws , it wants to completely annex palestine and does want peace at all, other wise it will not continue to steel land to make new settlements.The result is an apartheid system with ghettos like gaza which has and will have a boomerang effect.
Its lobby is so powerful that they never get international sanctions and are not sue for crime against humanity.
 

You need to catch up with current times . Israel does not build in Gaza , does not control Gaza , does not want Gaza .

Hamas is in control of Gaza , so your concerns of Gaza being turned into ghetto should be taken up with them and with brothers across the border in Egypt.

May be if Hamas spent all Iranian money on its people instead of financing their terror attacks than Gaza would not be a ghetto

If you going to post hatred at least make sure to have some factual information

 

YOU need to catch up with the current times! Israel has created the ghetto of Gaza, one of the most densely populated places on earth, barricading the civilians inside concrete walls, forbidding basic human needs as well as "luxuries" such as dates and cinnamon, colouring pencils for kids, and a whole list of normal items.

Petermach is referring to the Westbank, and in fact, all of Palestine (except Gaza). He is citing facts. It is you who should acquaint himself with the facts.

If YOU are going to post hate-propagating things, make sure it is based on factual information.

 

 

The blockade on Gaza is maintained by Egypt as well.

It could be nullified tomorrow is Egypt wills it. Yet somehow Egypt does not seem to think this is a bright idea. There is, relatively, less pointing of fingers at Egypt on Arab and world media when it comes to this.

 

Gaza is, for the most part, not barricaded by a concrete wall, what you refer to does exist, to a certain extent, on the West Bank. Even there, though, it is far from encircling all the Palestinian territory. Most of the border between Israel and Gaza are basically fenced, not walled. There is no-go zone near the fence, which under the latest cease- fire was carved out of Israeli territory.

 

There are not many Israelis advocating an annexation of the West Bank (seeing this would mean making citizens of the Palestinian and leading into further mess), no one talks about annexing the Gaza Strip.

 

The Palestinians are not Israeli citizens, and their land is not annexed. Israel repeatedly stated that the current security barriers are in effect temporary and that lines would be determined in negotiation. There are no illegal settlements in the Gaza Strip, and most current issues on that front when it comes to the West Bank are to do with expansion of the current illegal settlements, rather than with further land grabs. Israel got a rather large Arab minority (20%) with full civic rights and political representation - seems a bit far fetched to use the Apartheid tag, even if it scores some points.

[Ulysses G.]

Israel got a rather large Arab minority (20%) with full
civic rights and political representation - seems a bit far fetched to use the Apartheid tag, even if it scores some points.

Far fetched? Ridiculous would be more like it. 

[umbanda]

 

 

Only one problem with all that. There is barely a smidgen of truth in his post and lots of unjustified anger which could be easily construed as hate. Pretty much every one of his points have been already been refuted on this forum in the last few days. Geography is far from his only error.

 

A somewhat complex problem as we know.

 

I respect Israel's right to exist, protect its territory and to enjoy peace.

 

However, allowing settlements and building on land which isn't theirs, blockading and prohibiting certain items, and  trying to restrict the rights of Palestinian's to be recognized as a country don't promote a peaceful settlement. It can't be all one way traffic - either way.

 

It must be very frustrating dealing with constant terrorist attacks and threats and especially having rockets fired at your cities. But, indiscriminate bombing, shooting, blowing up of property etc - somewhat reminiscent of tactics adopted by the Axis powers in WW2. Their failure to pacify conquered peoples was one of their downfalls. It smacks of revenge rather than prevention - you hit us, we'll hit harder. It is understandable to react like this and very difficult for anyone to propose a different reaction that will be successful. That does not make it right, nor is it likely to succeed in eliminating violence.

 

Israel has on occasion, often under great provocation, acted with a heavy hand and broken internationally recognized laws on occasions. There is no doubt that the powerful Jewish lobbies in  many countries especially the USA have prevented sanctions. Any other nation acting like this would have faced international wrath. But the attacks on Israel are also far more in number, frequency and often brutality. Makes understanding the never ending cycle easier,

 

Both sides have to change significantly. Israel must prevent those elements that steal land as if it's theirs. and support international convention. The Palestinians must recognize the rights of Israel to exist and respect those rights. This dispute has been stoked and manipulated by Islamic extremists for a long time, for their own agendas. Heaven help everyone if the loonies from ISIS get there. 

 

 

Both sides have to change significantly. Israel must prevent those elements that steal land as if it's theirs. and support international convention. The Palestinians must recognize the rights of Israel to exist and respect those rights. This dispute has been stoked and manipulated by Islamic extremists for a long time, for their own agendas. Heaven help everyone if the loonies from ISIS get there.

 

 

The Palestinians have had a chance, In fact more than one chance to accept a peace deal with Israel. But in the end have made more demands. You should ask yourself why this is after nearly fifty years. The answer is because they don't really want Israel to be in existence.  

 

 

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=466     "This official PA map of "Palestine” was broadcast on PA TV in September 2011. The map includes both the PA areas and all of Israel"

 

 

 

 

 

 

In biblical times all that area was named Palestine, even territory today ocupied by Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, and Jewish people called "People from Israel" were living there, like Jesus and Moses. The land was divided after many violent conflicts between Arabs tribes and after the British occupation. If Gaza people wants to still calling Palestine to their land it is OK, but to believe that they have rights to the biblical Palestine territory it is just ignorance and/or demagogy. Cannot be take it seriously by educated people, or be excuse for violence....but...Money and Power it is, and always will in this world the main and hidden reason of wars. Unfortunately, innocent people die in wars....a lot more than fighters.
 

Edited July 15, 2014 by umbanda

[johna]

Netanyahu's  spin doctoring of Israeli aggression exposed

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Om8E5ZvTGI

[Morch]

Netanyahu's  spin doctoring of Israeli aggression exposed

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Om8E5ZvTGI

 

I actually like this guy, probably would have liked him a bit more if he wasn't so obviously biased and bit more informed.  Keeping on talking about Gaza as occupied, re-hashing casualty preliminary estimates of casualty figures as solid facts, belittling the fear of kids on the other side, and allowing for Hamas usage of residential areas...sort of take the edge from his point.