Does It Make Sense To Buy A House Here

[kannot]

Thanks for this....it is a different ball game here for sure.

I guess the point is this: If I bought a home in UK then the price could go up or down in 20 years BUT one thing is for sure...20 years from now you could live in a house that is the same thing in 20 years as the day you bought it....indeed your grandchildren could live in it it 60 years from now without issue.....in contrast can you imagine a house or condo here in 20 years or worse still in 60 years time? No way if I bought a house or condo here would it be liveable 60 years from now.

I think that is the fundamental issue I am facing in my mind.

Go take a look at TAIPING CONDO Bangkok its the oldest and still lived in and isnt cheap.

[slipperylobster]

Renting is a mugs game if you are intending to stay permanently , money down the drain. However, it might make sense if you were uncertain about staying here and if you were still working. I would not have bought were I not retied, at my age I don't really care what happens in 20 years.

The question of owning is moot....as you cannot own property anyways. Definitely a drawback.

A condo? Many might be happy with that... I never was. There are condo sales by the dozens, and few are good investments. You can rent cheaper than owning....few make a profit.

[Soutpeel]

I plan to retire soon and will spend 7 days a week mincing around my house, rent free.

Mincing ?

[BillyBobThai]

Houses are much the same as women. Is far cheaper to rent than buy.

[up-country_sinclair]

What should give people caution is the lack of zoning laws most westerners take for granted. You could have practically anything built right next door to your house and there would be very little you could do about it.

Except sell and move.

[sirineou]

Houses are much the same as women. Is far cheaper to rent than buy.

and just like the women you might need a shot of Penicillin afterwords

[thailiketoo]

Smart people don't lose money when they rent or buy anyplace it's called due diligence.

[zydeco]

Buy the house and you also buy your neighbors--whoever they may be, now, or years down the road. Buy a house and, effectively, you are trapped. Buy a house on property and, if you are a non-citizen, you are violating Thai law and subject to blackmail, extortion, and the whims of your Thai partner. So, buy a house? No, no, no, and, again, no.

[pomchop]

Big assumption that the place you rent today for 25,000 baht will still be renting for the same 25,000 baht in 10-20 years.

IF that were the case then of course rent..However in the real world of landlords and inflation you can certainly

expect your rents will increase substantially over time. If your 25 k rent turns into 50 or 100 k rent over the

next ten plus years then those renting numbers don't look so great.

Inflation is a fact of life and as a renter you will always be subject to price increases that you cannot control whereas a buyer can lock in his price basically for the rest of his life.

Oh how I wish I had managed to buy or long term lease one of those sub soi sukhumvit compounds about 20 years ago when they were priced at a fraction of todays levels....or even a nice condo in a quality building.

I also think some of the assumptions made that the house/building will be unlivable in 20 years are bogus. The

house I have I suspect will be alive and well long long after I am gone.

To each his own, up to you, blah blah blah.

[kurnell]

I plan to retire soon and will spend 7 days a week mincing around my house, rent free.

Mincing ?

To and from the coffee shop

[Beetlejuice]

OK, putting aside all the legal issues regarding farangs owning land and properties in Thailand, here are some facts:

Buying: Firstly unless the property is built right in a main town or within a convenient distance from a main town and is a desirable location, then do not consider land and property as an investment in Thailand, but only as a place to live and as a roof over your head. The further out into no man`s land a home is built, the less chance of selling in the future and there will be little chance that the property will increase in value over the forthcoming years. Therefore, my advice is for those who cannot afford to purchase a property conveniently located near to town, should set a price limit a maximum of 1.5 up to 2 million baht and only consider it as a home and not as an investment, plus not expecting to make any sort of profit for the future. Spending no more than 2 million baht that is still highly probably in the outer areas means not having to place too much investment into the real estate. Also there is much involved with buying land and building in Thailand, the buyer should have in-depth knowledge of all the legal aspects and seriously consider what could actually go wrong and turn the home into a nightmare. For example, the home is totally secluded in it`s own grounds with beautiful views of the fields and mountains and then within a year someone comes along and builds a whacking great factory or warehouse only 1 metre away from the boundaries of the property or the seller has a loan out on the land or is actually not the real owner and so on. I could create a 20 page thread just on the pros and cons alone.

Renting: Problem with renting is that the tenant will always be under the shadow of a landlord and long term residence cannot be guaranteed, mostly on a yearly basis, although if it does all go pear shaped the tenant does have the option of throwing the keys back through the letter box and simply walking away that is not possible for owned real estate.

The bottle line is, if considering buying land and property in Thailand, then the buyer had better be well clued up and know what he is doing, otherwise it could cost you dear.

[slipperylobster]

Nobody here is going to sell a house. Up to the wife, if she wants to cut you in or not. For those with good, solid, long term marriages, perhaps a deal. For 86 percent of the others.... they will just have to take the walk.

[JAFO]

@OP. Tough call and only one you can answer. Early on I rented. It was convenient and I could pack up and move to another location at will. I highly encourage any newcomer to do this for the first few years they are in TL. It pays huge dividends later as you have been able to see the lay of the land, good and bad.

After awhile having a place to do with as you wish and a place where the missus is happy is very nice as long as you did not sink your last dollar in it. Like anywhere in the world there is risk in owning.

I would never(and did not) consider buying a house in TL an investment and try and toss out your western "I Need a huge place to show off" mentality, you don't. Simple is better for a host of reasons

Condo's are terrible. Its like renting with rules. I'd pass on that.

Bottom line, Take your time. You should be in no rush. Don't get caught up in all the drama from miserable foreigners who landed, met a girl and sunk everything they had in 3 months and now are trapped out in some rice paddy area. Never spend more than you feel comfortable losing in the event it all goes bad.

Good Luck

[bonobo]

For most foreigners in Thailand, I would recommend renting only as a practical aspect. Many people come here, then decide to go back to their home country within five years.

For longer term, rent might seem better from a cost basis, but rents do rise, and the 20k you pay in rent today will probably not be 20k ten years from now.

I bought a house because I don't like having a landlord and I like to improve property. I've put in a fish pond, a western kitchen, a bathtub, trees, etc., things I would never have done if I was renting. Now, even with the headaches of installation, I can enjoy the things I have added to the home.

[NeverSure]

OP this seems like a great opportunity to get onto the Thai property ladder, dont listen to the nay sayers, go for it buy it

[geordiel]

With renting there is always the danger of the Landlord raising the rent substantially, especially if you have made improvements to the property. Also with family settled in the area with friends, schools etc you may have to leave at short notice should the landlord not renew the lease.

[WhamBam]

Your personal circumstances can change too. Mine did. I am glad I rented. Add to the fact a house is never yours.

A condo seems a better idea to buy but they too have problems especially if you get bad neighbours renting next door or above you.

I prefer not to buy but that is my personal preference.

Possibly if I was in a stable relationship I'd buy / build a house in the village at a fraction of the cost the OP mentioned and use that as a base to travel from.

[MJP]

Your personal circumstances can change too. Mine did. I am glad I rented. Add to the fact a house is never yours.

A condo seems a better idea to buy but they too have problems especially if you get bad neighbours renting next door or above you.

I prefer not to buy but that is my personal preference.

Possibly if I was in a stable relationship I'd buy / build a house in the village at a fraction of the cost the OP mentioned and use that as a base to travel from.

". . . at a fraction of the cost the OP mentioned . . . "

This is true. A house in LOS needn't cost well over £100,000!!! For anyone wanting a house there, circumstances need to meet these tests:

1. Have Thai children (kids can own it) or be in a long term very stable relationship;

2. Only do this when the exchange rate is favorable, there's no rush;

3. When the exchange rate is favorable it usually means Thailand has crashed, so land/build costs should be cheaper at the time;

4. The financier (that's you) fully comprehends Thai land law with respect to foreigners;

5. The financier can keep control of big ideas. There's no need to build a palace, really there isn't, it needs to be sized according to your needs rather than wants;

6. Consider building rather than buying off the peg. Understand quite how temporary many of these structures referred to as houses actually are. It's best to go with a decent piling contractor for foundations, in fact learn building before you start (coolthaihousedotcom is a good start), understand material and labour costs and build costs per square metre;

7. Location, location, location. The financier understands that living close to family can be a double edged sword and the proximity to family needs to be proportional to family relationships, i.e., the worse the relations the further away you should be;

8. Consider utilities. Does the area have a reliable quality water supply, drainage, electricity, internet?;

9. Does the area flood, is it close to landfill or other source of hell/pollution, where's the groundwater and is it usable?

10. Also remember that houses aren't worth much compared to land. It's better to have big land and small house. You can then have one of those ride on lawn mowers;

11. Neighbours. Check;

12. Can the financier afford to lose it all?

So much of the infrastructure we take for granted in the West due to minor things like planning and civilization in general you have to build yourself in Thailand. This can be aggravation.

Edited July 13, 2014 by MJP

[David48]

Humm ... my thoughts ...

From an investment perspective

Firstly, because you can't control the future ... with Property you usually you make the money when you buy, not usually when you sell.

Seek a person who needs to sell, not someone who wants.

Buying from the Developer is usually not the best idea ... sort of like buying a new car.

Look for situations where there maybe upstream property appreciation.

A Supermarket development near by, the BTS/MRT being extended within 'walking distance' ... usually classed for Westerners as 400 metres.

If you decide to rent and not buy ... what will you do with that money?

All things being equal ... most property over the long term keeps pace with inflation. Long term is 10 years +

In the future, when it comes time to sell ... who will be your market?

We Westerners will only be a fraction of that market.

If you invest that money and buy ... what reserves do you have in case of a 'Black Swan' event ... something your can't foresee or predict.

Is your money currently in Thailand? Think of the currency risk.

What it the Baht is devalued considerably? Or increases in value against that Country where you currently hold your funds.

Personal

Investment hat off ... mate sitting next to you in Bar hat on now.

What sort of temperament do you have? If you rent and not buy, can you invest those funds to do something else and not touch them?

You need the dividends and capital appreciation to offset the rent and the rent increases.

They are the questions I would be asking myself.

Good Luck with your decision.

[David48]

^^ MJP ... nice post ... we were posting at the same time ... much of what your posted is gold ...

[MJP]

^^ MJP ... nice post ... we were posting at the same time ... much of what your posted is gold ...

I've been there. Twice.

[JAFO]

Your personal circumstances can change too. Mine did. I am glad I rented. Add to the fact a house is never yours.

A condo seems a better idea to buy but they too have problems especially if you get bad neighbours renting next door or above you.

I prefer not to buy but that is my personal preference.

Possibly if I was in a stable relationship I'd buy / build a house in the village at a fraction of the cost the OP mentioned and use that as a base to travel from.

". . . at a fraction of the cost the OP mentioned . . . "

This is true. A house in LOS needn't cost well over £100,000!!! For anyone wanting a house there, circumstances need to meet these tests:

1. Have Thai children (kids can own it) or be in a long term very stable relationship;

2. Only do this when the exchange rate is favorable, there's no rush;

3. When the exchange rate is favorable it usually means Thailand has crashed, so land/build costs should be cheaper at the time;

4. The financier (that's you) fully comprehends Thai land law with respect to foreigners;

5. The financier can keep control of big ideas. There's no need to build a palace, really there isn't, it needs to be sized according to your needs rather than wants;

6. Consider building rather than buying off the peg. Understand quite how temporary many of these structures referred to as houses actually are. It's best to go with a decent piling contractor for foundations, in fact learn building before you start (coolthaihousedotcom is a good start), understand material and labour costs and build costs per square metre;

7. Location, location, location. The financier understands that living close to family can be a double edged sword and the proximity to family needs to be proportional to family relationships, i.e., the worse the relations the further away you should be;

8. Consider utilities. Does the area have a reliable quality water supply, drainage, electricity, internet?;

9. Does the area flood, is it close to landfill or other source of hell/pollution, where's the groundwater and is it usable?

10. Also remember that houses aren't worth much compared to land. It's better to have big land and small house. You can then have one of those ride on lawn mowers;

11. Neighbours. Check;

12. Can the financier afford to lose it all?

So much of the infrastructure we take for granted in the West due to minor things like planning and civilization in general you have to build yourself in Thailand. This can be aggravation.

^ Nice post MJP

#7 is the best of them all. So many a foreigner has failed miserably due to this one. I know quite a few that bought out in a "Village" or in a congested beach area only to find after a few years it was not the life they wanted and imploded. You definitely need some hang time in Thailand to decide. Location IMHO is everything and is based solely on your temperament, patience, desires, expectations and needs. As others noted, things will change in your life as well. Have to look a bit at the future as well.

So I recommend you put away your money for now OP. Go live around Thailand. You will have plenty of time to spend your money but at least this way its a better informed decisions. This thread alone has some extremely good info.

Edited July 13, 2014 by JAFO

[tartempion]

All depends on your expectations.

Seeing all the Thai ghetto's, whether 1 million or 5 million baht houses on a handkerchief of land, no gardens all concrete

I wanted rice fields and trees around the house. A house built to my liking. The village is 1km away.

Spend 3 million, live here year 13, nearing 156 months, thus 19.230 monthly cost. Not so good, not so bad money wise.

But very happy with my choice/decision.

Say I still would be around for the next 7 years, 12.500 monthly cost. Satisfied with that perspective.

Edit: not being totally selfish: house is in gf's name (no surprise here), she has a place to live in (or sell if she like) after I'm gone and we adopted her brother's young baby girl, she is next in line for inheritance - house and 2 rai building land we bought in the village.

Edited July 13, 2014 by tartempion

[TheFishman1]

For me better to Rent if I bought a house couldn't be in my name.i have lived in several Country's that I bought in my name and sold put was not something that happens overnight. Here in Disneyland think best to rent ,rent is cheap.i have looked at some really nice places that where 7-8 yrs old and half look worn down mold on entrance signs I thing that Thai people just don't see it the club house was dirty and not maintained and this was a 9 yr old place go figure

[chiang mai]

The more money you spend on rent, the more likely it is that buying a place of your own will make sense. If you're happy to live in a 8,000 baht studio and you can get a decent return on your savings, renting is probably the right thing for you. But if you spend 20/25k a month on rent, because you want somewhere larger and nicer to live, and your investment returns are low, buying is a better deal.Whatever else happens though, as said previously, don't buy until you been here for at least a couple of years.

[ChrisB87]

I think you answered your own question in paragraphs 2-3.

It could make sense to buy in Thailand, but not that particular house and probably not at your age, unless you have kids who could benefit.

Edited July 14, 2014 by ChrisB87

[Familyonthemove]

I think a house in a 'mooban' artificial village is the same as a condo on practice - it's just a horizontal condo. As the OP says you are at risk of poor general maintenance of the site and at the mercy of neighbours.

But buying an older house on a separate plot and improve it may change the maths if the location is right. You will save on rent and get all your original investment on rent and improvements back when you sell. And if you look at the direction of growth of the city / town nearby and buy in its path - your property may gain in the value. Buy in outer Bangkok for example - but in the likely direction of future public transport links - then you could win. Need to look well ahead though, as when the plans are known the values have already factored in the future transport.

Sent from my C6902 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bowerboy]

Thanks for these comments..

The thing is that rents really do not go up here...if anything they go down (if renting non brand new places).

Example: When I first moved to Bangkok in 2004 i moved to a 1 bedroom condo in soi ruam rudee where I stayed for 5 years (as a single guy..absolute glory days! If those walls could talk!) and the rent was 40,000 per month and stayed that way for 5 years.

Since then a lot more quality condos are available on the BTS line and that same condo now rents for 35,000THB per month.

Another example would be NS Towers out at Bangna...100 plus square meter places for 20,000THB and they get cheaper all the time...and a nice building too (although a bit of a weird place to live although the car park is all BMW's and Benz and Porsche).

Just a couple of examples above and also the same thing in the housing village where we live we now...newer houses are 50,000THB up (and all empty) with the houses that are 5 or 6 years old all going for around 20,000THB per month (and mostly full).

So that is part of my reasoning in this...i am pretty sure 20 years from now I could live in a similar standard place as I do now for fairly similar rent as I pay now based on past experience.

[Albertosez]

Some good opinions and advice I think - both for and against buying. Personally, I bought my house because having considered most of the same for and against points I decided that I wouldn't lose my shirt - even if I didn't cover my investment should I decide to sell. I wouldn't really consider buying a house / condo in Thailand as a means to make money - this is not Singapore / Hong Kong that is for sure. In fact, I am 100% confident that I will not recover my investment because of what I have since spent on extensive renovation. However, I wanted a home, not just a place to live and I could never have personalized my property to this extent if I was only renting. I spend approx 22 hours per day inn my house ( personal specific circumstances ) and this significantly influenced my decision to buy. If I sell in maybe 5 years, I guess I will lose between 1M to 2M on my investment ( silly eh ? ) but maybe that would still be less than I had spent on rent and at least I have had the satisfaction of living in my own small humble castle rather than someone else's house ?

[pnustedt]

I was in the same quandry as the op about 8 years ago when I was moving to Thailand. I went for the purchase route and bought a 4 bdrm det. house in a suburban moo ban for about the equivalent of GBP28,000. Similar properties now sell for around GBP100,000 and we live in a house to our taste within a good secure community. I have also purchased farming land and built a farmhouse about 40km away and it is also a good investment. The best investments for quality of life and return on investment that I have made.

I am now negotiating to buy a commercial building with some apartments for Bt8mil. IMHOP purchasing is the way to go but renting is certainly a cheap route. I wouldn't buy to rent in Thailand.