Visa crackdown and property prices

[isawasnake]

I think in the long run policies like this will make real estate prices go up, and give the country some much needed legitimacy.

[Maejo Man]

Agree with above "PattayaPhom", but also for other cities.

My landlady has had a couple of properties vacant for aout 4 months. cosequently she is about 120,000 out of pocket. She sent me a letter the other day informing me that as of September my rent would increase by approximately 60%

In answer to the OP's question, I think that new house sales will be hardly be affected, but wental properties certainy will, and it will get worse. as short term renters vacate.

My wife has several properties,bought 8-10 years ago,and in that time have not

been able to raise the rents,as I don't think the market is right to put the rents up,

The returns are still good @ 12-16% and the houses have paid for themselves,

We are not greedy and have happy long term tenants, as we look after them.

Regards Worgeordie

A pity my landlady does not take a leaf out of your book. I have been in this house for 23 years and have made over 200,000 baht's worth of improvements over the years, Sadly my original landlady died a while ago and now her daughter has control of dozens of properties.

I have no idea of her motives

Edited July 16, 2014 by Maejo Man

[ldnguy]

What has it got to do with Cambodia. USA, UK and others have similar schemes for rich people But vastly more expensive. And a few Euro countries as well.

I suppose you'll be off to Cambodia then. Goodbye.

You'd also better look up the definition of blackmail. No-one is blackmailing you. You obviously don't know what it means.

I like when the commie type zeal turns some people thinking they are the authority to say me good bye...

I only said goodbye because I thought you were leaving. You don't qualify for any visa and won't pay for an Elite Card, so it's a reasonable assumption to make that you are leaving. So goodbye is appropriate when people leave.

[ldnguy]

UK has very minimal property tax as well.

Really? I dont call UK council tax minimal, and council tax is just rates (property tax) by another name.

In Europe the full local property tax on my house was somewhere north of 150,000B(equiv)/year though I did get some rebates on that.

Council tax in my area is about £1,000 a year. That's what I mean by minimal. Much more in New York for example. UK's minimal property tax is often cited as a reason that London property does so well compared to other global cities like New York, Hong Kong, etc. UK compares very well to other rich countries.

[arunsakda]

How many tourist-visa runners own property? Zero.

False.... under 50 year old age ( I don't worked, I dont leartn thai, I had no thai wife... I was just a long term tourist: Only relax and spending my money ) no any other options to stay in the country for longer time, than the 3 entry tourist visa ( visa runs ) Now it seems illegal, despite the law says it is still legal.... BTW I own 3 condo and planned to buy a 4th... Under the new " visa lottery " I changed my mind...

4 Condos? Renting them out yourself, without business license and work permit is illegal. This is the type of non-compliance targeted by enhanced enforcement of current immigration regulations.

[KittenKong]

UK has very minimal property tax as well.

Really? I dont call UK council tax minimal, and council tax is just rates (property tax) by another name.

In Europe the full local property tax on my house was somewhere north of 150,000B(equiv)/year though I did get some rebates on that.

Council tax in my area is about £1,000 a year. That's what I mean by minimal.

That's not really minimal if you compare it to the council tax on a condo here (zero).

My point is that in many other countries you might be expected to pay 1 or 2% of the property's value every year in local taxation and I think this is a definite incentive not to own empty property.

[KittenKong]

4 Condos? Renting them out yourself, without business license and work permit is illegal.

Is it? As long he employs an agent to do the rent collection and general management I dont see that it breaks any law for a farang to own 4 condos and rent them out.

[arunsakda]

Correct. Many skip the agent with their management fees and Taxes. Cheating in a way they would never dare to in their home country.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

How many tourist-visa runners own property? Zero.

i know one with two condos in pattaya

[bkkjames]

Correct. Many skip the agent with their management fees and Taxes. Cheating in a way they would never dare to in their home country.

Wonder if they register their short term holiday renters with authorities like hotels do?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[KittenKong]

Wonder if they register their short term holiday renters with authorities like hotels do?

This doesnt seem to happen very often in condos, though it is supposed to.

Edited July 16, 2014 by KittenKong

[3mike26]

OP here, thanks for your thoughts on this. Consensus seems to be maybe small, short-term effect on particular market segments.

[trogers]

Agree with above "PattayaPhom", but also for other cities.

My landlady has had a couple of properties vacant for aout 4 months. cosequently she is about 120,000 out of pocket. She sent me a letter the other day informing me that as of September my rent would increase by approximately 60%

In answer to the OP's question, I think that new house sales will be hardly be affected, but wental properties certainy will, and it will get worse. as short term renters vacate.

My wife has several properties,bought 8-10 years ago,and in that time have not

been able to raise the rents,as I don't think the market is right to put the rents up,

The returns are still good @ 12-16% and the houses have paid for themselves,

We are not greedy and have happy long term tenants, as we look after them.

Regards Worgeordie

A pity my landlady does not take a leaf out of your book. I have been in this house for 23 years and have made over 200,000 baht's worth of improvements over the years, Sadly my original landlady died a while ago and now her daughter has control of dozens of properties.

I have no idea of her motives

Me thinks she is trying to drive you out and sell the house...

A landlord looks to minimise vacancy period for obvious reason.

[gk10002000]

Won't make any difference. Most foreigners that buy property have visas to stay here. Those doig visa runs generally don't buy property. There are exceptions of course, but this affects very few people.

I disagree. While many or even most doing Visa runs may not own the property, many or most are renting the propery longer term. Once and if they stop renting or vacancy rates go up, then the unit prices will probably go down.

[Straight8]

I can't this tightening of visa laws having a positive at the very least, though longer term and depending on how this situation with Visas and long stay plays out, on top of already inflated prices, my guess would be a plateau or small fall in prices.

Forgetting those that simply can't afford it, those under 50 who want to retired earlier and have sufficient funds [1,000,000+ baht a year for arguments sake] will now be having second thoughts of buying property due to risks of what else this wonderful country will concoct next.

Certainly won't be in favour of the foreigner.

[thehelmsman]

It's all a diabolical plot by the government to get more foreigners to marry Thai ladies, huh...maybe,maybe........

[Christie Paul]

Doubtless most visa runners are not property owners.

But intelligent investors will be concerned about the thin edge of the wedge.

Will Thailand remain open for opportunity or will it become less hospitable?

Thai authorities are obliged to take care of the interests of their people first and foremost. Likewise expats will take care of their own interests first and foremost. Those who have put down roots and have become at home here, naturally hope these diverse interests will converge. But we must consider the possibility they won't.

The outlook for tourism is not great, quite apart from recent turbulence here.

Western economies are tanking, youth unemployment is skyrocketing, the baltic dry goods index is off a cliff, GDP/ Debt ratios are in the toilet and sinking. I don't think Thailand sees a big future in Western tourists and perhaps is more concerned about an influx of Western economic refugees.

Flagship properties will probably be okay more or less, maybe for a while perhaps. The rest will sink and not keep up with inflation.

[Straight8]

Doubtless most visa runners are not property owners.

But intelligent investors will be concerned about the thin edge of the wedge.

Will Thailand remain open for opportunity or will it become less hospitable?

Thai authorities are obliged to take care of the interests of their people first and foremost. Likewise expats will take care of their own interests first and foremost. Those who have put down roots and have become at home here, naturally hope these diverse interests will converge. But we must consider the possibility they won't.

The outlook for tourism is not great, quite apart from recent turbulence here.

Western economies are tanking, youth unemployment is skyrocketing, the baltic dry goods index is off a cliff, GDP/ Debt ratios are in the toilet and sinking. I don't think Thailand sees a big future in Western tourists and perhaps is more concerned about an influx of Western economic refugees.

Flagship properties will probably be okay more or less, maybe for a while perhaps. The rest will sink and not keep up with inflation.

The risk to reward ratio is just not worth it, on top of inflated prices, Thailand in particular BKK does not look like bargain buying with the plethora of empty condo's.

[KarenBravo]

Phuket already has a massive over-supply of condos and houses. A little bit more won't make any difference.

[JohnP1752]

Will they start cracking down on foreigners purchasing houses and condos through Thai companies next. That would really punch a hole in the market

[Codesh]

very naive questions, but please share your knowledge with me!

I know that there are taxes on profits made from the sale of a condo in Thailand. But what about tax on income from a condo - how does that work? Is there a simple Thai system for declaring and paying tax on such income? If the rental is handled through a management agent, do/can they organise for payment of any income taxes? Is it worth finding a Thai accountant for someone who wanted to buy a few condos to generate a small income stream? If it all seems too hard to deal with the bureaucracy of the Thai tax system, do I just bury my head in the sand?

[max72]

How many tourist-visa runners own property? Zero.

False.... under 50 year old age ( I don't worked, I dont leartn thai, I had no thai wife... I was just a long term tourist: Only relax and spending my money ) no any other options to stay in the country for longer time, than the 3 entry tourist visa ( visa runs ) Now it seems illegal, despite the law says it is still legal.... BTW I own 3 condo and planned to buy a 4th... Under the new " visa lottery " I changed my mind...

Me too. I used to stay in Thailand 4-5 months a year and spend every time about 30 000 euros or so ,I own a condo and wanted to buy more, but since the ultra racist rules against tourists, I decided to sell it and go to buy in a neighbour country.

Many friends of mine are in the same situation. I am 41 and without any need to work. I just live on holiday.

[max72]

I also looked at some condos for sale in a 5-year old building. They have never been sold or lived in. The prices now are 20% higher than 5 years ago. So not being able to sell some since the building was first built hasn't dragged prices down. They can afford to wait or not ever sell. That s a huge different between Thai and Western property markets. There is a more of a rich/poor divide here and more buying with cash. They just don't need to sell, so there is no downward pressure on prices.

This is what makes the market here so hard to work out. Everything seems overvalued, but I can't see any real way for prices to drop drastically because there aren't many sellers who will lower prices. In UK, a developer would drop the prices for the last few sales. Here they would keep for 30 years if they didn't sell. It's a very different market.

The market is different because there are no property ownership taxes here. One day some clever government (this one?) will introduce them and that will probably have a big effect on the number of empty properties around and their asking prices.

Think about it: property taxes are the easiest of all to apply as you cant hide the property you own and you cant move it either. It's a mystery to me why they dont already exist in some substantial form. They would raise billions and billions for the government.

In fact, they plan to introduce property taxes.This will surely drive prices down.

But non resident foreigners will also need to pay ?

I already pay taxes in my own country for the condo I own in Thailand .

[Christie Paul]

A nice good long dose of an economy in a quagmire, falling prices, increasing poverty and general discontent, will bring about some enlightened immigration policies.

[KittenKong]

In fact, they plan to introduce property taxes.This will surely drive prices down.

But non resident foreigners will also need to pay ?

I already pay taxes in my own country for the condo I own in Thailand .

Really? Property ownership taxes imposed on property situated outside its own borders? Sounds like the sort of country I would like to leave! Is that some sort of wealth tax?

Taxes on profits from such foreign property (rent, capital gains) are a different matter, of course.

If Thailand introduces property ownership taxes then I would expect them to apply equally to non-residents.

Edited September 13, 2014 by KittenKong

[IMA_FARANG]

How many tourist-visa runners own property? Zero.

-------------------------

For the record.

I am a retiree living in Bangkok and have been for three years now.

So far the latest "crackdown" has had no effect on me.

Also I didn't and won't/don't buy any "property".

I lease a serviced apartment/flat on a 3 monthly lease at present.

Edited September 13, 2014 by IMA_FARANG