Scores of foreigners refused entry to Thailand at Malaysian border

[philw]

3 and a bit people per day. Suggest the immigration guys need to pull the finger out and try harder.

Sardonic but nice........

[AYJAYDEE]

There are many on here who wish to define 'tourist' primarily by length of time... Hmmmm? It seems in their meager lives it has never occurred to them that there is a class of people who are fortunate enough to live anywhere they want. If they have utilized the Thai tourist visa system and extensions that have been in play, remember it was fully facilitated by Thai immigration ... then they are tourists even if they stayed in Thailand a year... they were permitted to do so by the Thai Government. Nothing sneaky was going on - there was no need to be sneaky - just do the allowed border runs - get another 30 days or whatever was allowed and go back to having fun, or flower gardening, or snorkeling, or backpacking., or ... Oh - and they had a REAL VISA is was called a Tourist Visa - it was valid and so were the Extension Stamps put up on it... Validated by the Thai border police WILLINGLY every time they stamped it on an out and in.

Small minds just cannot think outside the box. It is not for those on the side lines to define what a tourist is - just because you do not have enough money to do what they do. Tourist don't have to go home - that is a measurement by those who don't have the money and freedom live another kind of life.

Now all that is changing because the Thai Government via the Immigration Authorities are enforcing old laws at stringent levels. And the perpetual freedom loving tourist who have been able to afford such a life in Thailand will just go find other places to spend their money. And yes they could buy an Elite Card perhaps... but maybe they just wanted to put that money in a condo investment and not give it to the Thai Government to squander.

Just a Note: I am not speaking of those who are working illegally, or in some other way breaking Thai Laws. And if you think that every long stay 'tourist' is a law breaker in some way ... then you live in a punitive little world.

And by the way none of this applies to me -- on an old guy on a pension way over age 60 - here quite legally.

no one said they were sneaky. but if they never went home year in year out they were not tourists. as you said, they were fortunate enough to LIVE

anywhere they wanted.

[Time Traveller]

3 and a bit people per day. Suggest the immigration guys need to pull the finger out and try harder.

Well if you have a visa, you have reasonable expectation to be allowed to enter the country.

There is only a presumption by the border officials that a visa holder could be working. Do Thai immigration really believe people who could make $15 an hour working legally in their own countries are flocking to Thailand to work illegally for $15 a day with no benefits, then exit and enter the country again every 60 days in order to comply with immigration law, but at the same time happy to break the Thai labor laws by working illegally?

Dream on Samran,

Edited July 16, 2014 by Time Traveller

[AYJAYDEE]

3 and a bit people per day. Suggest the immigration guys need to pull the finger out and try harder.

Well if you have a visa, you have reasonable expectation to be allowed to enter the country.

There is only a presumption by the border officials that a visa holder could be working. Do Thai immigration (and Samran) really believe people who could make $15 an hour working legally in their own countries are flocking to Thailand to work illegally for $15 a day with no benefits, then exit and enter the country again every 60 days ?

many are .

[bkkjames]

What is amazing (not unsurprising) is nobody has said you must stay out of the country XXXX days / weeks / months before we will consider to allow you back in again.

Meanwhile over at TAT, the spin machine has thrown a belt and they are looking for a new part.

[Deacon Bell]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

Hotel bookings, flights, not having stayed in Thailand for 364 days out of the last 365.

[Time Traveller]

3 and a bit people per day. Suggest the immigration guys need to pull the finger out and try harder.

Well if you have a visa, you have reasonable expectation to be allowed to enter the country.

There is only a presumption by the border officials that a visa holder could be working. Do Thai immigration (and Samran) really believe people who could make $15 an hour working legally in their own countries are flocking to Thailand to work illegally for $15 a day with no benefits, then exit and enter the country again every 60 days ?

many are .

So why would these hypothetical people want to do visa runs? If they are breaking Thai Labor laws already then it's likely they are happy to break the immigration law as well and not even bother doing visa runs.

[Deacon Bell]

3 and a bit people per day. Suggest the immigration guys need to pull the finger out and try harder.

Well if you have a visa, you have reasonable expectation to be allowed to enter the country.

There is only a presumption by the border officials that a visa holder could be working. Do Thai immigration really believe people who could make $15 an hour working legally in their own countries are flocking to Thailand to work illegally for $15 a day with no benefits, then exit and enter the country again every 60 days in order to comply with immigration law, but at the same time happy to break the Thai labor laws by working illegally?

Dream on Samran,

I know many people doing this. EFL teachers earning between 600-900b per hour. Either not employed full-time by a school (doing it free lance) or don't have a degree so cannot get a WP and extension.

Many have been doing it for years.

Unlike teaching without a WP, the consequence of not doing visa runs etc. has kept them staying in the country legally for that time (with tourist visas or whatever).

Edited July 16, 2014 by Deacon Bell

[TechnikaIII]

This might just be the beginning.I can see Thailand's neighboring countries having problems with all the farangs that can go into

Thailand.

The Burmese border post at Mae Sot will be none too pleased. At 500 Baht a pop for every in-and-out, it gave them a steady flow of cash from dawn to dusk. And Thai side was collecting overstay fines. I've seen a few handing over substantial wads of money on that score!

They may as well shut down, close the bridge and start shooting each other again.

[Deacon Bell]

3 and a bit people per day. Suggest the immigration guys need to pull the finger out and try harder.

Well if you have a visa, you have reasonable expectation to be allowed to enter the country.

There is only a presumption by the border officials that a visa holder could be working. Do Thai immigration (and Samran) really believe people who could make $15 an hour working legally in their own countries are flocking to Thailand to work illegally for $15 a day with no benefits, then exit and enter the country again every 60 days ?

many are .

So why would these hypothetical people want to do visa runs? If they are breaking Thai Labor laws already then it's likely they are happy to break the immigration law as well and not even bother doing visa runs.

See my above post.

Very little consequence of teaching without a WP.

Overstaying for years, most definitely will have a consequence whenever they need to leave or need to show their passport to an official.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Deacon Bell

[watso63]

I have no axe to grind as I am here on a retirement extension of stay. Foreigners have been allowed and encouraged to buy condos here. If you are a condo owner and below 50 years old and single, then you could end up being denied staying in your "home". OK the elite card is an option, but the "investment in Thailand" has already been made, so why isn't there a visa allowing a visit as and when option available as long as funds can be shown, where employment in Thailand is not required? Or is there?

As an aside, I don't feel the elite card is overly expensive. 5 years of two week holidays would cost about the same (depending on where you come from) when travel from home and back from the airport (in home country), flights, hotels, etc are taken into account.

[JDGRUEN]

To JDG -- Some persons and governments just have a hard time saying 'NO!' -- the current government apparently doesn't.

And rightfully so ... every country has a right to change their minds on how certain laws are enforced. I don't take issue with it (as if it mattered if I did).

I do take issue with how this has been handled. Why not take people who they wish to bar from Thailand (at least temporarily) and issue them a special limited time pass - say 7 days (as is available)... stamp big red stamps in their passport and let them go back with the written orders that the 'tourist' had to sign and get their belongings - settle their affairs and get out of Thailand. Even if the IOs required the party to get on line - (provide WiFi) and say Book a Flight out of Thailand and I'll let you back in. You have 7 days.

Nothing like this was done. My friends finally got home at 1:00 this morning after spending 2 and 1/2 days in Malaysia, spending lots of cash, go to Penang - get a Tourist Visa .. come back ... All the while on their FIRST attempt to do a border crossing they had a flight out of Thailand booked in June for July 29. They had the printed out flight paperwork - the IOs did not even want to look at them ... So entry was barred. So stupid - why treat genuine tourists like dodgy criminals ... ? Mercy me!!

[Pattaya46]

I know a guy, 42, swimming in his money....well ok, wading, a visa runner.

Spends around 2-3 million baht a year.

He will probably not get a visa any more. Byebye!

A rather ridiculous example. If he had that much money he could easily spend 100'000 B/year for an Elite Card and it would be fine, with no more hassle with Immigration, and no more boring trips for Visa extension or Visaruns

Agree....but I guess a few have ruined it for the genuine tourists

who do like to stay here for a length of time.....

I don't know in which way there is bad change for genuine tourists ??

Or maybe you have to define "length of time" ?

[AYJAYDEE]

To JDG -- Some persons and governments just have a hard time saying 'NO!' -- the current government apparently doesn't.

And rightfully so ... every country has a right to change their minds on how certain laws are enforced. I don't take issue with it (as if it mattered if I did).

I do take issue with how this has been handled. Why not take people who they wish to bar from Thailand (at least temporarily) and issue them a special limited time pass - say 7 days (as is available)... stamp big red stamps in their passport and let them go back with the written orders that the 'tourist' had to sign and get their belongings - settle their affairs and get out of Thailand. Even if the IOs required the party to get on line - (provide WiFi) and say Book a Flight out of Thailand and I'll let you back in. You have 7 days.

Nothing like this was done. My friends finally got home at 1:00 this morning after spending 2 and 1/2 days in Malaysia, spending lots of cash, go to Penang - get a Tourist Visa .. come back ... All the while on their FIRST attempt to do a border crossing they had a flight out of Thailand booked in June for July 29. They had the printed out flight paperwork - the IOs did not even want to look at them ... So entry was barred. So stupid - why treat genuine tourists like dodgy criminals ... ? Mercy me!!

how many 30 day entries and tourist visas did they have in a row?

[Time Traveller]

Very little consequence of teaching without a WP.

And there lies the problem. So maybe the Labor Dept need to get and do some work, raid businesses and fine and deregister those that are hiring illegal workers, instead of immigration just excluding everyone that arrives "with travel history".

It is completely reasonable that some people actually do not work for 6 months out of a year and might just in fact be genuine tourists. I know of several people who work is seasonal and would fall under suspicion and/or exclusion if they had to confront Thai immigration with tourist visas.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Time Traveller

[belg]

so next is to chase the overstayers & blacklist them

[JDGRUEN]

There are many on here who wish to define 'tourist' primarily by length of time... Hmmmm? It seems in their meager lives it has never occurred to them that there is a class of people who are fortunate enough to live anywhere they want. If they have utilized the Thai tourist visa system and extensions that have been in play, remember it was fully facilitated by Thai immigration ... then they are tourists even if they stayed in Thailand a year... they were permitted to do so by the Thai Government. Nothing sneaky was going on - there was no need to be sneaky - just do the allowed border runs - get another 30 days or whatever was allowed and go back to having fun, or flower gardening, or snorkeling, or backpacking., or ... Oh - and they had a REAL VISA is was called a Tourist Visa - it was valid and so were the Extension Stamps put up on it... Validated by the Thai border police WILLINGLY every time they stamped it on an out and in.

Small minds just cannot think outside the box. It is not for those on the side lines to define what a tourist is - just because you do not have enough money to do what they do. Tourist don't have to go home - that is a measurement by those who don't have the money and freedom live another kind of life.

Now all that is changing because the Thai Government via the Immigration Authorities are enforcing old laws at stringent levels. And the perpetual freedom loving tourist who have been able to afford such a life in Thailand will just go find other places to spend their money. And yes they could buy an Elite Card perhaps... but maybe they just wanted to put that money in a condo investment and not give it to the Thai Government to squander.

Just a Note: I am not speaking of those who are working illegally, or in some other way breaking Thai Laws. And if you think that every long stay 'tourist' is a law breaker in some way ... then you live in a punitive little world.

And by the way none of this applies to me -- on an old guy on a pension way over age 60 - here quite legally.

no one said they were sneaky. but if they never went home year in year out they were not tourists. as you said, they were fortunate enough to LIVE

anywhere they wanted.

Your definition of tourist is yours and other narrow minded people who cannot envision such a life.

Look up several definitions and see if they have time limitations on them. You do recall reading books and seeing movies of people fortunate enough to lounge on the French Riviera or sit on a hill top in Greece overlooking the sea for six to nine months at a time, or the Brits who spent years tromping around about India (should I go on?)... Oh and check out how many months the French often take for Holiday... I think they still do that...

That sort of lifestyle does exist ya' know... Do some reading.

And --- what is it about "it was allowed" do you not get? Staying in Thailand for 6 - 9 - 12 months at a time was 'allowed' on a tourist visa... no laws were broken by just staying here in this manner. If laws were broken in other ways then that is another subject.

It is all a moot point for now as the Thai Government has chosen to enforce the law fully (no quarrel with that) ... but for people to lambast 'tourist' for not being your brand of 'tourist' - when it was perfectly allowed and facilitated is just plain silliness ...

By the way in the last few months did you turn anyone into the Immigration Authorities for being a suspected 'tourist'? ... Geeze if you didn't I am disappointed... because that is what Brown Shirt mentality people do.

[Pattaya46]

so next is to chase the overstayers & blacklist them

Humm.... And what about that?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/741109-immigration-clarifies-and-confirms-overstay-crackdown/

[AYJAYDEE]

There are many on here who wish to define 'tourist' primarily by length of time... Hmmmm? It seems in their meager lives it has never occurred to them that there is a class of people who are fortunate enough to live anywhere they want. If they have utilized the Thai tourist visa system and extensions that have been in play, remember it was fully facilitated by Thai immigration ... then they are tourists even if they stayed in Thailand a year... they were permitted to do so by the Thai Government. Nothing sneaky was going on - there was no need to be sneaky - just do the allowed border runs - get another 30 days or whatever was allowed and go back to having fun, or flower gardening, or snorkeling, or backpacking., or ... Oh - and they had a REAL VISA is was called a Tourist Visa - it was valid and so were the Extension Stamps put up on it... Validated by the Thai border police WILLINGLY every time they stamped it on an out and in.

Small minds just cannot think outside the box. It is not for those on the side lines to define what a tourist is - just because you do not have enough money to do what they do. Tourist don't have to go home - that is a measurement by those who don't have the money and freedom live another kind of life.

Now all that is changing because the Thai Government via the Immigration Authorities are enforcing old laws at stringent levels. And the perpetual freedom loving tourist who have been able to afford such a life in Thailand will just go find other places to spend their money. And yes they could buy an Elite Card perhaps... but maybe they just wanted to put that money in a condo investment and not give it to the Thai Government to squander.

Just a Note: I am not speaking of those who are working illegally, or in some other way breaking Thai Laws. And if you think that every long stay 'tourist' is a law breaker in some way ... then you live in a punitive little world.

And by the way none of this applies to me -- on an old guy on a pension way over age 60 - here quite legally.

no one said they were sneaky. but if they never went home year in year out they were not tourists. as you said, they were fortunate enough to LIVE

anywhere they wanted.

Your definition of tourist is yours and other narrow minded people who cannot envision such a life.

Look up several definitions and see if they have time limitations on them. You do recall reading books and seeing movies of people fortunate enough to lounge on the French Riviera or sit on a hill top in Greece overlooking the sea for six to nine months at a time, or the Brits who spent years tromping around about India (should I go on?)... Oh and check out how many months the French often take for Holiday... I think they still do that...

That sort of lifestyle does exist ya' know... Do some reading.

And --- what is it about "it was allowed" do you not get? Staying in Thailand for 6 - 9 - 12 months at a time was 'allowed' on a tourist visa... no laws were broken by just staying here in this manner. If laws were broken in other ways then that is another subject.

It is all a moot point for now as the Thai Government has chosen to enforce the law fully (no quarrel with that) ... but for people to lambast 'tourist' for not being your brand of 'tourist' - when it was perfectly allowed and facilitated is just plain silliness ...

By the way in the last few months did you turn anyone into the Immigration Authorities for being a suspected 'tourist'? ... Geeze if you didn't I am disappointed... because that is what Brown Shirt mentality people do.

i didnt say 6-9-12 months! i said YEAR IN YEAR OUT. and spare me your personal insults.

[boike]

I wonder how All the self righteous people on here and other threads will react when they start with your tyoe of visa. You're literary cheering the misery of these people of whom most have the means to stay here and don't work or do any crime.

Of course Thailand has the right to enforce their immigration laws but dont talk about these people like you're better then them. Immigration will move to the othet type of visas because also those were not always properly enforced/checked. E.g. people borrowing the 400k or 800k

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

[bkkjames]

I wonder how All the self righteous people on here and other threads will react when they start with your tyoe of visa. You're literary cheering the misery of these people of whom most have the means to stay here and don't work or do any crime.

Of course Thailand has the right to enforce their immigration laws but dont talk about these people like you're better then them. Immigration will move to the othet type of visas because also those were not always properly enforced/checked. E.g. people borrowing the 400k or 800k

Sent from my Galaxy S4 4G LTE

Who's cheering?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[newermonkey]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

I would imagine that someone who has entered Thailand never before or just a few times they would be safe. but those seasoned falang who have many many tourist stamps would need to show some evidence such as hotel booking etc..

I agree with the clampdown, I have worked in Thailand legally for 30 years and have seen forigners on touist visas with no work permit setting up shop and damaging my industry by suppling cheap and bad quality services.

[navara]

Was there an official warning? Do they have used a warning period of several months to a year? I can't remember such a thing. They should let people enter. It is not reasonable, it's not fair. The whole world would know about this and tourist will stay away, when a country decides to be unfriendly.

[Time Traveller]

If they have utilized the Thai tourist visa system and extensions that have been in play, remember it was fully facilitated by Thai immigration ... then they are tourists even if they stayed in Thailand a year... they were permitted to do so by the Thai Government.

Exactly.

The only effective way for the Thai immigration to get rid of the people they deem undesirable is to ban all tourists. Or every tourist gets 30 days (or whatever) then no more entries, no extensions. For them to try to do anything else is just wasting their time and money because there will always be loopholes that criminals can exploit.

[MrWorldwide]

Was there an official warning? Do they have used a warning period of several months to a year? I can't remember such a thing. They should let people enter. It is not reasonable, it's not fair. The whole world would know about this and tourist will stay away, when a country decides to be unfriendly.

This was posted here in late May and there have been updates since but I have no idea how many travel agencies worldwide were given forewarning.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/727092-thai-immigration-border-insecurity-mounts-as-tourist-visa-abuse-is-targeted/

Personally, I dont see it as being 'unfriendly' to those who spend no more than 4 weeks a year in Thailand but that's a whole other thread.

[Tatsujin]

How does one prove that they are a genuine tourist?

Do you not read anything in the OP pieces?

Legitimate tourists who wish to enter Thailand are advised to show officials hotel bookings or some kind of travel itinerary.

In addition to this, I would add that (in their eyes), you are probably NOT a tourist when:

1. You have no luggage

2. You have numerous out/in stamps back to back or in close relationship to each other

3. You leave the border at 10am and reenter at 1pm on the same day

4. You are on a bus/van that caters specifically for out/in border runs

Get the picture?

[franzs]

I think there will be a lot of people with new passports on the way

[technologybytes]

Clearly there are very many different definitions of a tourist, I'd say it's someone who is here for leisure with no intention of working or running any kind of business. Not every tourist stays in hotels and not every tourist has an ongoing ticket. Just because someone has been a tourist for 2 years already does no nesseserally mean that person is not a real tourist.

The crackdown is to prevent people using a Tourist Visa or Exempt Stamp to come to Thailand and then work.. that can happen on someones first ever visit.

[samran]

3 and a bit people per day. Suggest the immigration guys need to pull the finger out and try harder.

Well if you have a visa, you have reasonable expectation to be allowed to enter the country.

There is only a presumption by the border officials that a visa holder could be working. Do Thai immigration really believe people who could make $15 an hour working legally in their own countries are flocking to Thailand to work illegally for $15 a day with no benefits, then exit and enter the country again every 60 days in order to comply with immigration law, but at the same time happy to break the Thai labor laws by working illegally?

Dream on Samran,

The real test is if they are tourists or if they are defacto residents. Working illegally might be an easy 'gotchya' test. But you are either a genuine tourist, or not.

For what it is worth. I knew a couple of people once earning 1000 baht an hour doing english tutoring afterschool and working on ESL shops during the day. Never had work permits untill well later down the track. I think this was just the tip of the iceberg.

Edited July 16, 2014 by samran

[MrWorldwide]

I think there will be a lot of people with new passports on the way

This has been addressed across several threads and no amount of messing with fonts will change the fact that Thai Immigration have access to a database containing the complete travel history of the person in front of them.