Radio Waves/wireless Signals Are Risks As Electricity Conductors ?

[greenwanderer108]

I thought I heard this on some Thai newscast one time or another the past month but can't remember if I actually saw/heard it from news or just dreamed I did. So what's the real deal? Is someone putting themselves in any endanger by chatting away on the cellphone during a huge lightning storm ?

All I know is that at my current BKk apartment, they tend to always shot off the phonelines during lighting storms. I assume this was to bring the risk down of the building being damaged by lighting/power surges and the is reasonable that land lines can act as conducters, being a risk but what's the word on the wireless waves-signals that are everywhere, invisible yet abundant ....Pehaps it's all a fable, can someone back it up whether it's truth or not...

This is vital information to know for sure figuring that I'll be using wireless internet quite often the next few months, on top of the fact that it's monsoon season !

Thanks in advance,

Edited June 29, 2006 by greenwanderer108

[stumonster]

they tend to always shot off the phonelines

yes quite a lot of shooting is thailand at the moment.

if you are using your mobile phone while outside in a lightning storm and you happen to to be struck by lightning - your risk of dying is increased.

[ajarnmark]

Lightning can strike anywhere, anytime during storm. There is no single way that can save you from lightning 100%. All the measures can reduce the risk a little bit. Cell phones are 100% safer during a L-Storm as it does not have any wire connection. When a L-bolt hits any building or any place then it can move via conductors. Good examples are wires, water, metal pipes etc.

Following are some precautions during an L-Storm to reduce the risk to your life and property.

1. Do not take shower.

2. Do not use land phones. However, you can use cordless phones.

3. Do not use electrical appliances, as it can be damaged if the main line hit by the lightning bolt.

4. Do stand near windows or in balcony.

5. If you are in open move inside building.

6. If you are standing under any tall structure, such as tree or tower, move immediately.

7. If you are in open are feel that your body hairs are raised, it is indication that you are going to be hit by L-bolt soon. Do not sit. Put your hands on knees and bent down.

Pray to your God or anyone you believe that you would be safe during the storm.

Summary of my understanding about L-Storm. Welcome all corrections/comments.

[GuestHouse]

Utter nonsense.

The fear is based on the increased conductibity of ionized air around the phone's arial.

In truth the ionization that occurs around your mobile phone's arial extends to a few micro meters - Not the sort of thing that puts you at risk of a lightening strike.

You've more chance of falling down a pot hole or crashing your car while on the mobile.

But, small as the increase in risk that you are exposing yourself to is, we nevertheless live in hope.

[TokyoT]

But, small as the increase in risk that you are exposing yourself to is, we nevertheless live in hope.

[chownah]

You are safe from lightning if you are inside an automobile....except for convertibles and perhaps fibre glass bodied cars...I guess.

Edit: I forgot to say you must not be touching any metal knobs or steering wheels etc.

Edited June 29, 2006 by chownah

[Pink Mist]

think about it, why do they disconnect phone lines during thunderstorms, because the lines sit out in the streets and if hit anything down the line is at risk of damage including humans.

obviously the lightning wont travel thru a cell site to a mobilr but if you are out amongst the storm then you are at risk,but lightning thru a ceel phone is a totally new energy transmission source

[moonoi]

I guess this is the article you are referring too.....originally reported by the BBC quoted here from theregister.co.uk:

Warning: mobiles and lightning don't mix

Conversation killer

By Lester HainesPublished Friday 23rd June 2006 08:55 GMT

UK doctors are advising mobile-addicted Brit youth to lay off the chat during thunderstorms - or risk the consequences.

According to the BBC, the British Medical Journal cites the case of a 15-year-old girl who was struck by lightning in a London park while talking on her phone. She suffered a burst eardrum and cardiac arrest and, a year later, "has severe physical difficulties as well as brain damage which has led to emotional and cognitive problems".

What the kids of today don't understand, apparently, is that when you're struck by lightning, your skin's high resistance will cause most of the charge to pass over the body in a process called "external flashover". If, however, you have metal objects or liquids in contact with the skin, these can provoke the charge to enter and pass through your body where it can wreak havoc with your internals.

The Northwick Park Hospital doctors who treated the unfortunate London victim discovered three fatal cases of mobile phone chat lightning strike - in China, Korea and Malaysia. Swinda Esprit, of the ear, nose and throat department said: "It is obvious really, but we all carry mobile phones and we don't think about it. Children particularly won't realise the risk."

It's not, however, simply a matter of not making calls during tempests. The mere presence of your phone about your person increases the risk of lightning-induced internal injury, as Met Office boffin Paul Taylor noted: "It is well known within the thunderstorm detection community that wearing or carrying metallic objects can increase the likelihood of injury.

"It certainly adds to the intensity of the skin damage and the article certainly amplifies that here. I would treat a mobile phone as yet another piece of metal that people tend to carry on their persons like coins and rings." ®

and to quote a response to that article

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Everyone at El-Reg is fired. Yes. Everyone. Even the Lettuce bloke and the guy who made rather a mess of the "database" last week. hel_l, sack the cleaner and the unforetunate who serves the danish and coffee during brunch.

It's like the lovely Mr Blaater (or is it Blatter, I can't be bothered to go and find out) says: Someone should have run on to the pitch (ok, rushed around the cupboard that is El-Reg HQ) shouting "Stop! Stop!"

Hang on ... It's my tablets ... You haven't really run with the Lightening Kills People on Mobiles "news" have you ... ONLY the BBC is going to run with that load of old cobblers, surely?!

THREE PEOPLE in the whole wide world have been found dead after using their mobile phone in a thunderstorm (and one person is badly injured).

It appears that's ever; not this week, not last year, not even back in the 1990s. Nope. Ever. Three people.

So the El-Reg headline should read "Using mobile phones in a storm is LESS dangerous than blowing your nose!"

I know it's Friday, I know the footie kicks off in an hour or so ... But there is no excuse. So yer all fired for being a bunch of bed-wetting, paranoid, happy-to-parrot-fear-mongering-nonsense wazzocks!

(And where are the bl00dy Letters? Hmmm? Lunch-time has come and gone already ... tap tap tap ...)

;o)

Andy Harrison

Editors Comment:

Listen, Andy, we're not sure you're taking this mobile electrocution threat seriously. You try telling the bloke from China who was struck by lightning while gabbing away that it's not matter of life or death. And as for blowing your nose, well, a recent British Medical Journal exposé revealed that between 1560 and 2005, seventeen people were struck by meteorites while expelling the contents of their nasal passages. The reason? They simply had not been alerted to the possible risk. We rest our case. ®

I don't really need to add anything

[greenwanderer108]

okay, so this makes more sense.

The actual risk of being struck has nothing to do with the wireless, invisible signals---which aparently have no frequency or phenom. as to attract static energy from the sky, i.e. lighting strike etc. etc. And if something-someone were to be damaged during a lighting storem while surfing internet via gprs, it will more than likely happen if my computer is plugged in to an outlet or acting as a conductor directly somehow, though static energy, esp energy via mobile radio waves, etc. is not a likely scenerio as a dangerous conduction of Zeus's fury...

The three people who got struck could have suffered injuries because of a pair of keys, digital camera, or Sex in the City special DVD wrapped in tinfoil ...no necesarry connection to the mobile phone...aparently...but then again, no one can really say for sure with nature...

In either case, all these invisible wireless signals, whether for cell phones, radio waves, blue tooth, infared, ultraviolet, microwave, etc. do have other risks to human health right ??? If so, can you remind me and point me to the proper studies....Or am I confusing actual memories of information and knowledge with dreams and imagination ? ? ?

Thanks again !

[elkangorito]

think about it, why do they disconnect phone lines during thunderstorms, because the lines sit out in the streets and if hit anything down the line is at risk of damage including humans.

obviously the lightning wont travel thru a cell site to a mobilr but if you are out amongst the storm then you are at risk,but lightning thru a ceel phone is a totally new energy transmission source

I'm with Bronco on this one.

Also, if you wish to protect your home appliances during a lightning storm, unplug them from the power points. Turning them off is not good enough.

Radio transmissions tend to be unaffected during electrical storms...unless the antenna is hit. But this depends upon the type of antenna used.

[greenwanderer108]

Utter nonsense.

The fear is based on the increased conductibity of ionized air around the phone's arial.

In truth the ionization that occurs around your mobile phone's arial extends to a few micro meters - Not the sort of thing that puts you at risk of a lightening strike.

You've more chance of falling down a pot hole or crashing your car while on the mobile.

But, small as the increase in risk that you are exposing yourself to is, we nevertheless live in hope.

If your last sentance was your ay of saying you have a deathwish on me, I humbly advise you to redirect-channel such nonsense-emotions into love back into your own family and children so that they don't grow up hating and cursing others all there lives, despite the fact of being better off than 99 percent of the rest of the world. Otherwise I'm not sure how to interpret this 'hope' of yours

And as far as your information about ionized air...does ionized air have anything to do with the actual waves-signals ommited and received ? In other words, is there any ionation in the propagation of radio packets to be considered sufficient for electro magnetism activity???

Has there ever been a case of an active satelite dishe or other large transmitters-recivers being struck while (and possibly because of) processing signals

Your logic would make sense of only a few micro meters of airel for a single cellphone, but if a normal cell phone's signal is increased to radio packets or other larger, more powerful waves-signals, than logically the ionisation-electro magnetism attraction would increase with the size of the signal...Perhaps I just misunderstand the whole concept altogether...if so, enlighten me

Cheers

[tuky]

taken from PCN

Lucky escape as fisherman is struck by lightning in Na-Jomtien.

A story now detailing a lucky escape by a local Thai man. Khun Den aged 26 was rushed to the Queen Sirigit Hospital in Sattahip after he had been struck by lightning as he was fishing on the coastline in Na-Jomtien sub-district. At the time it was raining heavily and thunder and lightning filled the sky. Khun Den was on his mobile phone at the time whilst holding an umbrella. This should not be done when thunder and lightning are present. The phone acted as a conductor and a bolt of lightning hit the man causing serious burns of his upper body. Doctors tell us that he was lucky to survive and will require plastic surgery to repair the burnt areas of his body.

Sorry to Khun Den, but now he knows not to use his mobile during a lightning storm, keep the umbrella by all means.

[chownah]

A lightning storm joke: Two golfers were out on the course when a lightning storm started. The first golfer took out his two iron and held it straignt up above him. The second golfer said, "Why are you doing that?" The first golfer replied, "Not even God can hit a two iron!".

Today I was working out in the rice paddy putting up barbed wire when a lightning storm came through....I just kept working...I was pulling long (50m)pieces of wire through water filled rice paddies!!! I thought of how I might die at any instant and as a result I got really really focused on paying attention to what was happening in my life because it might be all that I got....it was really cool!!!! Like really good drugs!!!! I recommend it.

[jackr]

You are safe from lightning if you are inside an automobile....except for convertibles and perhaps fibre glass bodied cars...I guess.

Edit: I forgot to say you must not be touching any metal knobs or steering wheels etc.

Won't matter if you do touch any metal in the car as the four tyres are insulating the vehicle from the ground so no path to earth for el boltio, whom will look for his route elsewhere; unless, of course, someone has stolen your tyres and you're sitting on the rims, then you may have problems.

[DD18]

You are safe from lightning if you are inside an automobile....except for convertibles and perhaps fibre glass bodied cars...I guess.

Edit: I forgot to say you must not be touching any metal knobs or steering wheels etc.

Won't matter if you do touch any metal in the car as the four tyres are insulating the vehicle from the ground so no path to earth for el boltio, whom will look for his route elsewhere; unless, of course, someone has stolen your tyres and you're sitting on the rims, then you may have problems.

Was told that if your mobile rings while at petrol station (inside car or not) it can cause a spark with interesting consequences! Only place my son turns his phone off, ignores notices everywhere else.

[Guest endure]

think about it, why do they disconnect phone lines during thunderstorms, because the lines sit out in the streets and if hit anything down the line is at risk of damage including humans.

obviously the lightning wont travel thru a cell site to a mobilr but if you are out amongst the storm then you are at risk,but lightning thru a ceel phone is a totally new energy transmission source

I'm with Bronco on this one.

Also, if you wish to protect your home appliances during a lightning storm, unplug them from the power points. Turning them off is not good enough.

Radio transmissions tend to be unaffected during electrical storms...unless the antenna is hit. But this depends upon the type of antenna used.

And upon the frequency of the signals. HF signals are greatly affected by electrical storms.

[Jai Yen Yen]

...Perhaps I just misunderstand the whole concept altogether...

Stick to posing, mate:

/photo removed

mod

Edited June 29, 2006 by tuky

[Ijustwannateach]

You are safe from lightning if you are inside an automobile....except for convertibles and perhaps fibre glass bodied cars...I guess.

Edit: I forgot to say you must not be touching any metal knobs or steering wheels etc.

Won't matter if you do touch any metal in the car as the four tyres are insulating the vehicle from the ground so no path to earth for el boltio, whom will look for his route elsewhere; unless, of course, someone has stolen your tyres and you're sitting on the rims, then you may have problems.

The rubber has little to do with it. Since the normal resistance of air requires millions of volts per meter to break down, and the lightning may travel several kilometers on its way, a little rubber makes little difference if the lightning decides your car is really the easiest path to the ground (if it's on top of a small, pointed peak in the middle of a flat field and under it is a large iron boulder, for instance).

The reason you are safer in a car is that it simulates a Faraday cage- ideally it would be a fully enclosed hollow metal object, like a sphere or anything you could bash a sphere into without breaking its surface anywhere. A closed metal conducting surface under normal circumstances cannot transmit an electric field within itself [this is the effect that explains why it's difficult to use your cell phone in some elevators and other metal-cage-like areas]; therefore the lightning cannot set up an ionized path within the metal from outside and it must travel around the surface. I don't think it would matter if you were touching anything metal inside because you wouldn't be a grounding path to anywhere; though I suppose if you were touching two different metal surfaces that were topologically "outwards" and one was at a relatively higher voltage (perhaps because the lightning reached it first) you could still get a shock.

So the rubber tyres could be gone and you'd still be relatively safer in most automobile frames.

"Steven"

[libya 115]

It is true that lightning strikes can hit phone lines etc.

I know someone who had satellite/computer/TV/video all wiped out during a strike.

It is probably rare but now I unplug everything during a storm to be on the safe side.

I am sure it is dangerous to stand under trees. As an above poster said; better to crouch down in a storm and remove all metallic objects.

The mobile phone scare story must be a myth.

[Soundguy]

The three people who got struck could have suffered injuries because of a pair of keys, digital camera, or Sex in the City special DVD wrapped in tinfoil ...

Sex In The City, I've heard of that. It's the TV show about 3 prostitutes and their mother isn't it?

[Dragonman]

You are safe from lightning if you are inside an automobile....except for convertibles and perhaps fibre glass bodied cars...I guess.

Edit: I forgot to say you must not be touching any metal knobs or steering wheels etc.

Won't matter if you do touch any metal in the car as the four tyres are insulating the vehicle from the ground so no path to earth for el boltio, whom will look for his route elsewhere; unless, of course, someone has stolen your tyres and you're sitting on the rims, then you may have problems.

Saw programme on Reality channel couple of weeks ago. Top medical expert on Lightning strikes in US said this was an "urban myth". Nothing to do with the tyres, it's the current is diverted around the car's metal body. I ain't got a clue.

Saw the Na Jomtien fisherman on local Tv. He was in a bad state, but mobile not a mark. Moral, buy a large mobile to sit in during storms.

[percy2]

Top medical expert on Lightning strikes in US

Talk about a narrow field of specialization

[Dragonman]

Top medical expert on Lightning strikes in US

Talk about a narrow field of specialization

Not really. Apparently around 300 people each year in the States alone are left damaged with neurological problems caused by lightning strikes. Some times the problems never go away.

If you play golf on a July Sunday afternoon at 4pm in Florida you have the best chance of experiencing a lightning strike.

[GuestHouse]

Greenwander, do not confuse electrostatics and radio transmission with Magic Moonbeams - They are not the same thing.

[Gary A]

Years ago lightening hit a utility pole across from my house. That pole had my telephone wire on it. VERY fortunately I nor anyone else were near the phone. The phone was actually blown off the wall and there was a big black spot where the phone was. I always remembered that.

[jackr]

You are safe from lightning if you are inside an automobile....except for convertibles and perhaps fibre glass bodied cars...I guess.

Edit: I forgot to say you must not be touching any metal knobs or steering wheels etc.

Won't matter if you do touch any metal in the car as the four tyres are insulating the vehicle from the ground so no path to earth for el boltio, whom will look for his route elsewhere; unless, of course, someone has stolen your tyres and you're sitting on the rims, then you may have problems.

The rubber has little to do with it. Since the normal resistance of air requires millions of volts per meter to break down, and the lightning may travel several kilometers on its way, a little rubber makes little difference if the lightning decides your car is really the easiest path to the ground (if it's on top of a small, pointed peak in the middle of a flat field and under it is a large iron boulder, for instance).

The reason you are safer in a car is that it simulates a Faraday cage- ideally it would be a fully enclosed hollow metal object, like a sphere or anything you could bash a sphere into without breaking its surface anywhere. A closed metal conducting surface under normal circumstances cannot transmit an electric field within itself [this is the effect that explains why it's difficult to use your cell phone in some elevators and other metal-cage-like areas]; therefore the lightning cannot set up an ionized path within the metal from outside and it must travel around the surface. I don't think it would matter if you were touching anything metal inside because you wouldn't be a grounding path to anywhere; though I suppose if you were touching two different metal surfaces that were topologically "outwards" and one was at a relatively higher voltage (perhaps because the lightning reached it first) you could still get a shock.

So the rubber tyres could be gone and you'd still be relatively safer in most automobile frames.

"Steven"

True, but regardless of the fact that lightning is travelling at 9/10ths the speed of light and has gone several kilometres, rubber is still an insulator and it is highly unlikely that you'd get hit in favour of virtually anything else in your immediate surroundings that is straight through to the ground, ie - trees, buildings with lightning conductors, etc etc. If you were on a peak and on top of an iron boulder, the lightning would go straight for the boulder, why would it waste time slowing itself down and zapping its energy just to go through the car with rubber tyres?... and this all without Google.

[elkangorito]

There is no way whatsoever to fortell the outcome of any lightning strike.

I bring to attention;

1. Kirchoffs Law.

2. Ohm's Law.

It might be worthwhile noting that "dry" electrical storms are more dangerous than "wet" electrical storms since all the electrical energy is not easily "earthed". In a "wet" electrical storm, car tyres will be wet (if the car is in the storm) & therefore will conduct electricity. In a "dry" electrical storm, the electrical discharge will choose the least resistance to earth...this could easily be moist human flesh.

Inside the car, the passenger may be affected due possibly to being at a different potential to the surrounding car components.

Actually, it's all a question of "potential".

[elkangorito]

think about it, why do they disconnect phone lines during thunderstorms, because the lines sit out in the streets and if hit anything down the line is at risk of damage including humans.

obviously the lightning wont travel thru a cell site to a mobilr but if you are out amongst the storm then you are at risk,but lightning thru a ceel phone is a totally new energy transmission source

I'm with Bronco on this one.

Also, if you wish to protect your home appliances during a lightning storm, unplug them from the power points. Turning them off is not good enough.

Radio transmissions tend to be unaffected during electrical storms...unless the antenna is hit. But this depends upon the type of antenna used.

And upon the frequency of the signals. HF signals are greatly affected by electrical storms.

Sorry Endure...my intent was to say that radio transmissions do not necessarily attract lightning. As a former Amatuer Radio Operator, I used to hate electrical storms if I was using 20, 40 & especially 80 Metres.

[jackr]

There is no way whatsoever to fortell the outcome of any lightning strike.

I bring to attention;

1. Kirchoffs Law.

2. Ohm's Law.

It might be worthwhile noting that "dry" electrical storms are more dangerous than "wet" electrical storms since all the electrical energy is not easily "earthed". In a "wet" electrical storm, car tyres will be wet (if the car is in the storm) & therefore will conduct electricity. In a "dry" electrical storm, the electrical discharge will choose the least resistance to earth...this could easily be moist human flesh.

Inside the car, the passenger may be affected due possibly to being at a different potential to the surrounding car components.

Actually, it's all a question of "potential".

Yeah, wet rubber tyres mkes a big difference

[Ijustwannateach]

Jackr, if you were on top of the boulder, "straight" for the boulder electrically would mean around the surface of your car. The voltage the lightning "saves" by taking a "shortcut" through the low-resistance metal of the car might be compensation and more for the difficulty of going through a relatively thin layer of rubber.

In relatively hot environments like Thailand, I've seen science teachers have trouble with the fun experiments using van der Graf generators, because of the high rate of seepage of charge through users' rubber shoes.

Again, I repeat, it is *much less likely* (not impossible) for lightning to go through a car than around it, because of the Faraday cage effect. Lightning generally sets up small straight sections to ionize and pass through (called "stepping," I believe), and it is highly unlikely that enough voltage would be induced on one outer side of the closed metal conducting surface to create an ionized path *inside* it that would not be nullified by the movement of compensating charge in the metal surface to the other side of the "cage" (thus cancelling out the electric field necessary for the lightning to ionize and pass through the center).

Of course, the car is not completely closed. Lightning could pass through a car window normally, for instance; but having that nice low-resistance metal surface to pass through, it seems *highly unlikely* that it would generally do so.

"Steven"

P.S. Thanks for the compliment, but my posts here (as elsewhere) are written me own self.