How will NES EFL Teachers without degrees now stay in Thailand?

[Soutpeel]

Based on what I have rad from timwin over the last few weeks, i assume that he is working illegally, without a degree on a tourist visa. He also seems to think that everyone is an old geezer.

The whole immigration system needs so e tightening up, there are parts of it that will affect some of our businesses, however when things become clearer then it will also become easier. There have been too many flying under the radar, this crackdown will benefit all in the long term.

Oh, we got a real Sherlock here. Don't quit your day job, pal.

Timwin, by you remark, I think we have established you are working illegally, but I am curious in what sector are you working illegally ? education or on line and how have you resolved your possible impending visa problems under the new regime ?

[Timwin]

Timwin, by you remark, I think we have established you are working illegally, but I am curious in what sector are you working illegally ? education or on line and how have you resolved your possible impending visa problems under the new regime ?

I am not working illegally. I think you are just a fake, you know next to nothing about Thailand and how things work here.

[mrtoad]

Based on what I have rad from timwin over the last few weeks, i assume that he is working illegally, without a degree on a tourist visa. He also seems to think that everyone is an old geezer.

The whole immigration system needs so e tightening up, there are parts of it that will affect some of our businesses, however when things become clearer then it will also become easier. There have been too many flying under the radar, this crackdown will benefit all in the long term.

Oh, we got a real Sherlock here. Don't quit your day job, pal.

Timwin, by you remark, I think we have established you are working illegally, but I am curious in what sector are you working illegally ? education or on line and how have you resolved your possible impending visa problems under the new regime ?

Maybe timwin is on overstay as well

[Soutpeel]

Timwin, by you remark, I think we have established you are working illegally, but I am curious in what sector are you working illegally ? education or on line and how have you resolved your possible impending visa problems under the new regime ?

I am not working illegally. I think you are just a fake, you know next to nothing about Thailand and how things work here.

Really, I am sorry I dont believe you, unless of course you dont even live in Thailand ?

What is it I know next to nothing about in Thailand specifically ? or are you just making random statements ?

however I must confess I may not know how everything works in Thailand, but I do have a handle on how a lot of things work in Thailand

But you still havent answered my question in what profession are you currently emplyed in Thailand and do you anticipate having visa/overstay problems in the near future ?

[rgs2001uk]

If you did not meet the qualifications to teach here you never should have come here in the first place

When i came to Thailand 9 years ago i DID meet the qualifications. They changed, then changed again, and again. I have been at the same school over 6 years and at the same language school 8 years..so people think i'm an adequate teacher that they are willing to pay a salary to.

I am an English conversation teacher NOT a subject teacher i teach the students pronunciation, sentence structure and above all give them confidence to speak and for that in Thailand i need a B'ed or whats likely coming next year an M'ed..Right!

now my degree is not on the list so no waiver, no work permit, no visa.. after 6 years of work permit,visa etc using the exact same degree.. Right!

check out a company called O.E.G they are the future of private school teachers here in Thailand. educated back packers!

Jesus H, your English is worse than mine and I dont profess to teach English.

The elite of Thailand will continue to have their offspring educated overseas, as has always been their way.

Your average Somboon has no need for English language skills.

Jeez you live in a country where your average bar girl has better English skills than some of the so called leaders.

English, we dont need your stinking English amigo.

Enjoy your stay, jer gan eek laew na krap, plaer wa (it means) see you when you have the correct qualifications.

[FritsSikkink]

I think that it will be a massive problem for people that are truly wanted here. Wanted by the schools, wanted by the students, and wanted by the student's parents, and dare I say needed for Thailand and its future.

A problem that would solve this issue would be for native English speakers to be able to get a WP and Extension of Stay with only a TEFL certificate and police check (and a culture course or whatever they want to add on), but to have the degree requirement dropped.

Many have children here, are settled here, and are wanted and needed here.

What options do they have (besides the smart ol' 'Go get a degree mate!'). I think they can get married and try for either 400k in the bank for 2 months every year, or get a multi-entry marriage visa (for however long they issue them without a crack down).

I think the TEFL market is the one industry that a big crackdown on will not benefit either Thailand or Thais. Very much the opposite.

They are not truly wanted here. I want an qualified English teacher for my kids not somebody who is teaching English because this is a way to stay in Thailand.

[rgs2001uk]

Timwin, by you remark, I think we have established you are working illegally, but I am curious in what sector are you working illegally ? education or on line and how have you resolved your possible impending visa problems under the new regime ?

I am not working illegally. I think you are just a fake, you know next to nothing about Thailand and how things work here.

Please, lead us out of the darkness oh enlightened one.

Your benefit to Thailand and its people will be reflected in your pay packet.

Some on here earn more in a month than your average TEFLr earns in a year, maybe you dont know how things work here, never mind, carry on.

[Thai at Heart]

This is a big problem.

Who would you want teaching your child English, someone with a degree in Economics, but no teaching experience and hasn't a clue what present perfect is? Or would you rather someone who hasn't got a degree, but has lots of experience, knows their stuff and is good at classroom management?

Would you want someone to fix your car, who has a degree in Biology but no experience in motors or someone with no degree but 10 years of experience in the motor industry.

The current requirement for "any" degree is just ridiculous. Do away with this and replace with some sort of testing and screening will benefit Thailand in the long run; then you will rid yourself the rubbish ones with or without degrees.

Well, I see your point a little. I have an economics degree with an A in English A level and French. With other languages at GCSE.

Any degree doesn't mean a lot. Overall English qualifications and also foreign language study, should however count for something I believe.

[Timwin]

But you still havent answered my question in what profession are you currently emplyed in Thailand and do you anticipate having visa/overstay problems in the near future ?

Are you working illegally? I am assuming you are. You are guilty unless you prove otherwise. Why? Because I say so. This bullsh*t works both ways.

[mrtoad]

Timwin, by you remark, I think we have established you are working illegally, but I am curious in what sector are you working illegally ? education or on line and how have you resolved your possible impending visa problems under the new regime ?

I am not working illegally. I think you are just a fake, you know next to nothing about Thailand and how things work here.

Please, lead us out of the darkness oh enlightened one.

Your benefit to Thailand and its people will be reflected in your pay packet.

Some on here earn more in a month than your average TEFLr earns in a year, maybe you dont know how things work here, never mind, carry on.

600 to 700 quid a month does not suggest that they are valued that highly.

[FritsSikkink]

I am in that boat. You will get the sanctimonious cretins on here telling you "haha well you deserve it" when they don't consider the ramifications.

Schools like mine have a fairly large ESL staff of 30. Only 4 or 5 of those people have degrees. It is to my understanding that 2/3rds of ESL teachers in Thailand do not have a degree. So what will happen to a school like mine and thousands of others? "Oh well, you don't have the right paperwork so piss off" I bet the answer on here will be

Nobody except few sad old geezers are happy with this crackdown. Visa run companies, real-estate agents and condo builders, bike and car importers and all kinds of service providers for expats. The impact will be quite far reaching.

Try renting now a condo room with this clusterf*ck..."We give you farang a tourist visa but we may or may not allow you into Thailand, ha ha!" Not exactly wonderful news for landlords.

Do you really think the real-estate agents and condo builders, bike and car importers get affected by the loss those 35000 baht a month teachers

[mrtoad]

But you still havent answered my question in what profession are you currently emplyed in Thailand and do you anticipate having visa/overstay problems in the near future ?

Are you working illegally? I am assuming you are. You are guilty unless you prove otherwise. Why? Because I say so. This bullsh*t works both ways.

He isn't working illegally Timmy, I thinks he probably stated what his visa status is. You just continue to skip the subject.

[rgs2001uk]

Timwin, by you remark, I think we have established you are working illegally, but I am curious in what sector are you working illegally ? education or on line and how have you resolved your possible impending visa problems under the new regime ?

I am not working illegally. I think you are just a fake, you know next to nothing about Thailand and how things work here.

Please, lead us out of the darkness oh enlightened one.

Your benefit to Thailand and its people will be reflected in your pay packet.

Some on here earn more in a month than your average TEFLr earns in a year, maybe you dont know how things work here, never mind, carry on.

600 to 700 quid a month does not suggest that they are valued that highly.

Mr T, I am not a pinko commie, my student days are long behind me, but I remember somewhere something along the lines of, each according to their worth.

[Soutpeel]

But you still havent answered my question in what profession are you currently emplyed in Thailand and do you anticipate having visa/overstay problems in the near future ?

Are you working illegally? I am assuming you are. You are guilty unless you prove otherwise. Why? Because I say so. This bullsh*t works both ways.

Not at all dear boy I have been on a work permit for the last 14 years, so for the foreseeable future at least I have absolutely no concerns about my extension/wp status in Thailand, will it end one day ?...I am sure it will and when it does happen, I will make plans from there on in.

and where is the BS in my previous questions , it was a fair question what profession are you currently employed in ? and do you anticiapte any visa/overstay problems in the future and if you do what provisions or solutions have you come up with ?

I think thats a fair and relevant question, but your being evasive Timwin and one must question why is this ?

[mikecat]

Despite the prevailing view that English hasnt improved in Thailand, it actually has. Still miles behind most of their asian neighboors but improved it has. In the two schools I have worked in the students conversation skills have improved markedly in measurable terms. It is also clear, in my current school anyway, that parents think that English is an important part of their childs education. This would be backed up by the numbers of students doing extra classes, being enrolled in evening and weekend classes.

The things that have slowed the learning process up are many but include

The no fail policy being one of the key points. The whole education system is a fiasco, good teachers forced to give up whilst others are running around with fake degrees (some good). The constant change to the teachers council rules which one is tempted to think this is by design but Thai teachers are also now beginning to feel threatened here.The silly text books teachers and students are expected to use are not productive at all ( I refuse point blank to use these). The schools themselves generally are not selective about the teachers they hire and even less about students levels of aitainment as long as you dont fail them. Teachers spend half their time worrying about their work permit and visas or border hopping. Everything from haircuts to scouts to setting up student bank acounts seems more important than English class. It is surprising any progress has been made at all.

Also the notion perptuated on TV by the barstool brigade that teachers are holidaying drunks and backpackers is crap and doesnt contribute anything to the debate. In my experience most teachers I know work pretty hard and face up to the constant frustrations of working in a Thai school the best they can.

At the end of the day it looks like hundreds of teachers who have built a life, family and friends in Thailand will be forced to leave teaching and probably the country.

This is not a subject for self righteous or snide remarks it is in fact quite a sad moment for many people and for Thailand as a whole.

[Timwin]

He isn't working illegally Timmy, I thinks he probably stated what his visa status is. You just continue to skip the subject.

Oh, he "stated"! Like commenting, "I am on retirement visa". Yeah, that proves it!

[mrtoad]

Timwin, by you remark, I think we have established you are working illegally, but I am curious in what sector are you working illegally ? education or on line and how have you resolved your possible impending visa problems under the new regime ?

I am not working illegally. I think you are just a fake, you know next to nothing about Thailand and how things work here.

Please, lead us out of the darkness oh enlightened one.

Your benefit to Thailand and its people will be reflected in your pay packet.

Some on here earn more in a month than your average TEFLr earns in a year, maybe you dont know how things work here, never mind, carry on.

600 to 700 quid a month does not suggest that they are valued that highly.

Mr T, I am not a pinko commie, my student days are long behind me, but I remember somewhere something along the lines of, each according to their worth.

RG, I think according to timwin we are just all old geezers here.

Nice bit of rain here this evening in Chan.

[mrtoad]

He isn't working illegally Timmy, I thinks he probably stated what his visa status is. You just continue to skip the subject.

Oh, he "stated"! Like commenting, "I am on retirement visa". Yeah, that proves it!

You might be surprised , some of us here do actually know one another and what we do.

[Soutpeel]

Also the notion perptuated on TV by the barstool brigade that teachers are holidaying drunks and backpackers is crap and doesnt contribute anything to the debate. In my experience most teachers I know work pretty hard and face up to the constant frustrations of working in a Thai school the best they can.

Its hardly a notion by the TV barstool brigade, one only has to visit certain "reasonably priced" establishments around BKK and you can see the "English" teachers in glorious technicolour, in fact I realted a story a while ago about an "English" teacher who managed to mooch himself in drinking with a bunch of offshore guys and every time the round came round, said teacher decided it was time to go the toilet, however at the conclusion of the night he was left with a rather large bar bill in one place, as his penance for mooching off the guys all night, suffice to say one suspects he was on mamma and water for the rest of the month with no aircon in his "room" or he may be still washing dishes to pay off the bill in the place concerned..really dont know

So you have related your experience, I have realted mine...

[mrtoad]

Also the notion perptuated on TV by the barstool brigade that teachers are holidaying drunks and backpackers is crap and doesnt contribute anything to the debate. In my experience most teachers I know work pretty hard and face up to the constant frustrations of working in a Thai school the best they can.

Its hardly a notion by the TV barstool brigade, one only has to visit certain "reasonably priced" establishments around BKK and you can see the "English" teachers in glorious technicolour, in fact I realted a story a while ago about an "English" teacher who managed to mooch himself in drinking with a bunch of offshore guys and every time the round came round, said teacher decided it was time to go the toilet, however at the conclusion of the night he was left with a rather large bar bill in one place, as his penance for mooching off the guys all night, suffice to say one suspects he was on mamma and water for the rest of the month with no aircon in his "room" or he may be still washing dishes to pay off the bill in the place concerned..really dont know

So you have related your experience, I have realted mine...

Maybe that "mooches" was timwin. It would explain his hostility towards you.

[Soutpeel]

He isn't working illegally Timmy, I thinks he probably stated what his visa status is. You just continue to skip the subject.

Oh, he "stated"! Like commenting, "I am on retirement visa". Yeah, that proves it!

timwin timwin...where have stated I am on a retirement visa ?....yes we know you have a fixation on old gentlemen, but as I stated in the previous post, I have been working in Thailand on an extension/wp for the last 14 years and still have few years to do yet before reaching retirement age, so sorry I cant be part of your fantasies about older retired gentlemen..

and I am still waiting to a response to my previous question as regards your occupation and do you forsee any problems with your visa staus/overstays etc... why are you avoiding this question all the time ?

[Soutpeel]

Also the notion perptuated on TV by the barstool brigade that teachers are holidaying drunks and backpackers is crap and doesnt contribute anything to the debate. In my experience most teachers I know work pretty hard and face up to the constant frustrations of working in a Thai school the best they can.

Its hardly a notion by the TV barstool brigade, one only has to visit certain "reasonably priced" establishments around BKK and you can see the "English" teachers in glorious technicolour, in fact I realted a story a while ago about an "English" teacher who managed to mooch himself in drinking with a bunch of offshore guys and every time the round came round, said teacher decided it was time to go the toilet, however at the conclusion of the night he was left with a rather large bar bill in one place, as his penance for mooching off the guys all night, suffice to say one suspects he was on mamma and water for the rest of the month with no aircon in his "room" or he may be still washing dishes to pay off the bill in the place concerned..really dont know

So you have related your experience, I have realted mine...

Maybe that "mooches" was timwin. It would explain his hostility towards you.

you might be onto something there Mr Toad ?....if it was you Timwin sorry but you deserved it

[SirDrumsalot]

I do feel a lot of sympathy for TEFLs wihtout a degree and who have to scramble to find a solution to their situation, especially if they have family or other important ties in Thailand. However, when I was teaching in Bangkok 5 years ago, there was talk of a crackdown on teachers without work permits. At the time I was in my mid-20s, but I worked with a lot of teachers in their 30s and 40s who had been there for a while and had family there. I saw these guys doing their regular visa runs and I decided that was not the lifestyle I wanted to live. I was also afraid of the impending 'crackdown' which has now come to fruition.

So what did I do? I decided to move back to my home-country and pursue a university degree so that I would eventually be able to work legally in Thailand. It was a long 4 years, and a lot of money, but now that I have a degree I'm ready to move back to Thailand and earn a decent salary (by Thai standards that is).

What bothers me the most is how this will affect people who are not abusing the system, but who get caught up in these tighter regulations. I was planning on entering Thailand on a tourist visa, leaving after a few weeks for a short trip in Malaysia and returning 3 days later to enter Thailand on a new tourist visa. Now I'm afraid I will be scrutinized for leaving and returning so quickly although I have no intention on making this a routine. Perhaps I'm being over paranoid, but it may all boil down to the mood the immigration officer is in the day I pass through his station.

I do believe the Thai government, or military junta, is to blame for this nasty situation because they let it go on for so long and have now decided to crackdown on it without presenting viable options for TEFLs without a university degree. It would make complete sense to introduce some sort of TEFL course at colleges in Thailand which could give qualifications to teach in Thailand. This could be a 1 or 2 year course. Any longer and teachers might as well get a University degree. Introducing a course like this would allow Thailand to determine how they want their English teachers trained, allow them to incorporate Thai culture classes and also bring in significant income from tuition fees. Why this has not happened yet is baffling. It's an easy solution. Otherwise, how will Thailand attract qualified teachers if they could earn WAY more teaching in South Korea, Japan or China?

This crackdown was not well thought out at all. But to all you TEFLs without work permits, how long did you really think you could keep up this visa-run lifestyle? I imagine there are a number of loopholes to get around this crackdown, including eduction or marriage visas, but this will take time and money. All I can say is I sincerely wish you the best of luck if you are a teacher who genuinely cares about education and improving your students' English.

[philw]

A toad and a southern peeled something dominate this thread with their slurs and veiled insults.

One has made 13,000 posts since 2006 about 5 day and the other about 15,400 posts over 6 years or about 7 a day, day in day out.

Both claim to have a life................"ho ho ho"

Sad for Thai Visa that such people predominate.

Driving to Suphan tomorrow, won't take my passport or keep to the speed limits.

[Soutpeel]

I do believe the Thai government, or military junta, is to blame for this nasty situation because they let it go on for so long and have now decided to crackdown on it without presenting viable options for TEFLs without a university degree.

Why should they provide options to people who are not even citizens or PR of Thailand ?

When I took my job in Thailand I had to be qualifed for the position by virtue of education and experience in that postion, if there was any apsect of the job I wasnt qualifed for, I couldnt stamp my feet and say it not fair and then demand they must change the requirements to suit me, I would have been laughed out the door..

so once again we are back to this self entitlement thing some people have.

[casualbiker]

If you did not meet the qualifications to teach here you never should have come here in the first place

When i came to Thailand 9 years ago i DID meet the qualifications. They changed, then changed again, and again. I have been at the same school over 6 years and at the same language school 8 years..so people think i'm an adequate teacher that they are willing to pay a salary to.

I am an English conversation teacher NOT a subject teacher i teach the students pronunciation, sentence structure and above all give them confidence to speak and for that in Thailand i need a B'ed or whats likely coming next year an M'ed..Right!

now my degree is not on the list so no waiver, no work permit, no visa.. after 6 years of work permit,visa etc using the exact same degree.. Right!

check out a company called O.E.G they are the future of private school teachers here in Thailand. educated back packers!

Jesus H, your English is worse than mine and I dont profess to teach English.

The elite of Thailand will continue to have their offspring educated overseas, as has always been their way.

Your average Somboon has no need for English language skills.

Jeez you live in a country where your average bar girl has better English skills than some of the so called leaders.

English, we dont need your stinking English amigo.

Enjoy your stay, jer gan eek laew na krap, plaer wa (it means) see you when you have the correct qualifications.

i'm tapping away on a forum.. not writing a fxxking thesis. stop being an ass!

[Timwin]

and I am still waiting to a response to my previous question as regards your occupation and do you forsee any problems with your visa staus/overstays etc... why are you avoiding this question all the time ?

Just like in your profile, no age, no location, not even gender selected aka my info is none of your business.

[SirDrumsalot]

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I do believe the Thai government, or military junta, is to blame for this nasty situation because they let it go on for so long and have now decided to crackdown on it without presenting viable options for TEFLs without a university degree.

Why should they provide options to people who are not even citizens or PR of Thailand ?

When I took my job in Thailand I had to be qualifed for the position by virtue of education and experience in that postion, if there was any apsect of the job I wasnt qualifed for, I couldnt stamp my feet and say it not fair and then demand they must change the requirements to suit me, I would have been laughed out the door..

so once again we are back to this self entitlement thing some people have.

I'm just saying they should find a better way to address these problems other than cracking down on hundreds, possibly thousands of teachers working illegally. What they are doing now will either cause teachers to leave Thailand in droves or lead to other loopholes being used, including massive corruption from being able to pay an agent to obtain the proper documentation for you. Sure, these teachers may have been taking advantage of a weak system in Thailand, but they are being taken advantage of as well by schools who are eager to hire unqualified teachers so they can pay them low wages while they get rich from charging high tuition fees.

[Soutpeel]

A toad and a southern peeled something dominate this thread with their slurs and veiled insults.

One has made 13,000 posts since 2006 about 5 day and the other about 15,400 posts over 6 years or about 7 a day, day in day out.

Both claim to have a life................"ho ho ho"

Sad for Thai Visa that such people predominate.

Driving to Suphan tomorrow, won't take my passport or keep to the speed limits.

philw I expected something a bit more articulate from you than stooping to taking swipes at peoples post counts, usually when people do this they have nothing to add to topic and thats all they can come up with, but I am flattered all the same you have taken the time to view my profile, to give he stats but sorry I am not interested not my type..

But good luck at the border

[mrtoad]

A toad and a southern peeled something dominate this thread with their slurs and veiled insults.

One has made 13,000 posts since 2006 about 5 day and the other about 15,400 posts over 6 years or about 7 a day, day in day out.

Both claim to have a life................"ho ho ho"

Sad for Thai Visa that such people predominate.

Driving to Suphan tomorrow, won't take my passport or keep to the speed limits.

Yawn, no insults at all. That seems to be the vein of your post.

We dont get to dictate the rules and laws of a country, we do though have to follow them.

As for a life, i most certainly do have one outside of my house.