Royal Thai Embassies and Consulates unaware of visa crackdown

[gray42]

Personally I think nothing will change even after the deadline

This was confirmed when yesterday I got my girlfriend to call head of immigration in ranong as my visa will be expired at the end of the month.

He explained that you are allowed 3 back to back visas but are usually allowed more if you explain your case to the official at the border

What visas would that be? Visa are not done at border crossings or do you mean getting a visa exempt entry.

You need to read the reports about the crossings in Ranong they are not letting anybody across that has one exempt entry before. Even some with valid visas have been turned away.

ubonjoe, obviously things are still uncertain, but do you believe only people who have used or are using visa exempt entries will be affected by this? If someone has been staying in Thailand for years using tourist visas obtained in neighboring countries but don't have any visa exempt entries in their current passport, do you believe they will not be affected by this change?

[Paul944]

Maybe the people at the Thai Immigration Authorities watched too much Australian border patrol episodes?

[SouthernMan3]

Its just up to the officer..case by case...hi right hand, I'm left hand. Need something more systematic and methodical than this farce.

It is like this in EVERY country around the world.

Didn't you read the article ?

[SouthernMan3]

I have removed some off topic and defamatory posts plus replies to them.

Thank you.

I for one am glad that you are here to do this kap

[mercman24]

i think they make their own rules up as they go along, i was about to go to a Thai embassy in Birmingham, when i found one in Cardiff ( a lot closer) in the Cardiff info they say it is an extra £ 10 for same day turnaround, yet no mention of this in the Birmingham info ?? so who is pocketing the nextra ten quid ??

[JLCrab]

Re: Issuance of Thai Visas: When someone applies for a Tourist Visa at a Thai Embassy or Consulate, the official there has no info as how you plan to utilize a 1, 2, or 3 entry visa regarding length of stay in Thailand and travel to other countries. When presented with a thick passport with up to 100 entries and departures to/from Thailand and other countries, they maybe don't have the time or maybe even the inclination to divine your future plans and how any given Thai IMM entry officer might interpret those intentions.

So they issue the visa as requested and say "Happy Trails!" and the rest is up to you.

[ubonjoe]

What to do? - booked to fly in on the 23rd passport full of visa exempt/on arrivals - stayed more than 90 days already this year - on rotaion oil field worker but on call and had a lot of R&R in Thailand. Never overstayed or had back to back visas or done visa runs as such , sometimes only out of the country for a few weeks ???

Should I fly Cambodia & get a tourist visa? My flights are through Singapore , maybe I should stay there and get a visa.(what kind?)

Not married but rent shop house - I'll miss my girlfriend if I have to take R&R in another country

Just come in as you normally do. We have no confirmed reports of anybody being turned away.that have a travel history like yours at the airport. The new rules by air have not come out yet. They are mostly looking for people doing out and back in again on the same day.

[gemini81]

It says don't show any ownership of anything, which discredits you from being a tourist. Which tries to discredit you from getting much here or staying here. On the other hand, months of no visas need for Taiwanese and Chinese. Brilliant moves once again.

[sambum]

Clarification will come after the August 12th deadline.

Yes - I believe you are correct. However, it will take some time for that after the chaos sets in. Lines (queues) stacking up a obscure (in comparison) land border checkpoints is a far different thing than lines stacking up at an International Airport. Passengers who have flown 15,000 K. will not be in a mood to take being turned away lightly and when in large numbers - the noise will be loud. Then there is the factor of airlines being made responsible to pay for the flight back for those turned completely turned away. It will be a mess.

Even though people know that Thai Immigration Authorities are a no nonsense group of people - passengers trying to gain entry and denied after just getting a new visa in their home country will be incensed and will forget the risks they are taking.

Failure to a least give passengers who are set to fly up to 15,000 - 18000 kilometers a special case leaflet warning them that a newly issued tourist visas are going to be heavily scrutinized and does not guarantee entry and a similar warning for those going without a visa relying on an Exemption would be unconscionable. But I think it is going to happen.with many stamps in their passport.

I think it would be quite entertaining to sit near the immigration stations and watch the show that is going to happen - popcorn in hand.

I thought that Thailand was trying to attract tourists, as tourism accounts for a significant part of the economy? On top of the current "political" situation, this can only drive potential visitors away to Cambodia, Vietnam etc

[denby45]

Hong Kong Royal Thai Consulate 16-7-2014 .

I went to the Hong Kong Royal Thai Consulate on wednesday to inquire about applying for a visa to visit Thailand from the 9th to the 17th august .

The woman at the enquieries desk leafed through my passport and then called her superior who also checked every page .

I was then told I need not apply for a visa as long as I had a return flight to HK.

I did not recieve a reply or comment when I mentioned I had heard of possible changes to the regulations .

I am married to a Thai ,my UK passport is two years old with visa exempt entries for february 2013 and august 2013 , each not more than 3 weeks per visit .

My previous passport has a series of visa exempt visits , Non O single and multiple visas. and a 60 day extension from Phibun immigration ofice.

I will be travelling on my own HK-BK and will carry copies of all our flight tickets-Thai Air , marriage certificate , son's birth certificate, wife's blue book and will state visiting family on the arrival form and list my wife's address up country as my accomodation .

Still , I am worried .

edit - 60 day extension added

Add a hotel to your documents by temporarily booking a cancellable (is that a word) room on Booking.com or Agoda. Print out the confirmation of the booking and if they ask about your accommodation show them that. A few days before your visit cancel the booking and nothing lost. I don't suppose they will check if you are really staying at that hotel or not.

[nithisa78]

And once again..

What defines a tourist ??

What is the difference between a temporary resident and a tourist ??

How many is too many.. Too long.. Too much..

All vague unclear and undefined.. Once again Thailand simply cannot write clear and firm rules or guidelines.

You think you could do better. You only have yourself to look out for. Then criticize not give thanks or praise. The Kingdom is to be praised just for the number of ungrateful malcontents they host. You define cry baby and ingrate. Enjoy your self pity party. Try to enjoy something. Push, pull or get out of the way.

[semaj1957]

So you can buy a condo in Thailand as a foreigner but unless you are over 50 and qualify for a retirement visa, you cannot stay in it regularly unless you have a work permit, a student visa or are married to a Thai. There must be a few worried developers in Pattaya! I have quite a few friends here who work on rotation in the oil and gas business, offshore and like to spend their time off in Thailand. Some have bought condo, some were thinking of doing so. Not now! Surely a non immigrant visa could be made available to condo owners with evidence that they work elsewhere? This crackdown without further thought and input from business will have a very negative effect on the Pattaya economy.

[thairookie]

And once again..

What defines a tourist ??

What is the difference between a temporary resident and a tourist ??

How many is too many.. Too long.. Too much..

All vague unclear and undefined.. Once again Thailand simply cannot write clear and firm rules or guidelines.

If you're going to stay in Bangkok for 30 days using visa exempt, in order to prove that you're a genuine tourist, you must report to Siam Paragon, Central Chidlom, Gayson Plaza, Central World Plaza etc. at least once a day.

[thairookie]

The Immigration should not be looking at past visa stickers and visa exempt stamps. They are legal and were permitted by the law. With the new regulations to discourage visa runners, they should be looking at the MOST RECENT exit from Thailand stamp and assess if the entry that the visitor now seeks is a back to back tourist visa or a back to back visa exempt.

[atyclb]

SOP (standard operating procedure) TOP?

The tail wagging the dog.

[calbts2]

Xm.

Sent from my KFTT using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bim]

Clarification will come after the August 12th deadline.

Yes - I believe you are correct. However, it will take some time for that after the chaos sets in. Lines (queues) stacking up a obscure (in comparison) land border checkpoints is a far different thing than lines stacking up at an International Airport. Passengers who have flown 15,000 K. will not be in a mood to take being turned away lightly and when in large numbers - the noise will be loud. Then there is the factor of airlines being made responsible to pay for the flight back for those turned completely turned away. It will be a mess.

Even though people know that Thai Immigration Authorities are a no nonsense group of people - passengers trying to gain entry and denied after just getting a new visa in their home country will be incensed and will forget the risks they are taking.

Failure to a least give passengers who are set to fly up to 15,000 - 18000 kilometers a special case leaflet warning them that a newly issued tourist visas are going to be heavily scrutinized and does not guarantee entry and a similar warning for those going without a visa relying on an Exemption would be unconscionable. But I think it is going to happen.

And please before making 'cat call' comments remember most tourist who come to Thailand are not Thaivisa.com junkies and likely never heard of it.... so they are not going to know about any of this. Even those with many stamps in their passport.

I think it would be quite entertaining to sit near the immigration stations and watch the show that is going to happen - popcorn in hand.

I could not agree more. It will be up to the airlines to repatriate these people and hope they have a holding pen for all those refused. My one point is this. You made a great point about not everyone reads thai visa and it is the few places I have read about this clampdown. So why are not the Nation and Bangkok Post and others been reporting this. Even the foriegn media. I dont see why airlines should foot the bill for sending people back if consulates are giving back to back tourist visas out. A very strange situation. I too would love to be a fly on the wall on the 12th August and see the Chaos unfold at the Airports.

Sent from my GT-I8552B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[johnsjourney]

Even with the best intentions, just because a national newspaper and our favourite forum says there is a crackdown on tourist visas does not necessarily mean there is a crackdown on tourist visas.

Visit your local immigration officer and ask their advice, I did, there is no change. The crackdown is on other things, and otherwise just a mass fingers pointing and panic just like the Cambodians last month, who were quickly urged to return.

[wilcopops]

Even with the best intentions, just because a national newspaper and our favourite forum says there is a crackdown on tourist visas does not necessarily mean there is a crackdown on tourist visas.

Visit your local immigration officer and ask their advice, I did, there is no change. The crackdown is on other things, and otherwise just a mass fingers pointing and panic just like the Cambodians last month, who were quickly urged to return.

It wasn't a rumour - The Cambodian exodus was based on info from the government who then realised they had blundered.

Edited July 18, 2014 by wilcopops

[jethro69]

Mailed the Thai embassy, first thing they did was referring me to the consulate nearest to me.

All they came up is a 3 entries Tourist visa. However, they asked for my number so I'll call them up on Monday, hopefully it's not only to suggest an ED-Visa or the Elite card. Nothing against the Elite card, but for myself I gonna burn the 500K either in Laos and/or Cambodia. For me it's not a “must” to stay in Thailand.

[beechguy]

'... immigration officials saying that “you are a tourist for 30 days, not more.”' .... It might be prudent for the Thai foreign ministry to make that clear to the embassies of all Thailand's main tourist producing countries.

Seems like that would be a good idea. It would also be prudent to issue immigration officers working at the borders with clear and well-defined guidelines, even if those guidelines aren't released to the public.

Time and again people have pointed out the fact that a visa doesn't guarantee entry and the final decision will always be made at the border, but while this is the law as written it isn't the case in reality at pretty much any international border around the world. The reason immigration officers are there at all is to act as a final safeguard against fraudulent visas, tampered passports and the like - in essence, to prevent people from entering the country illegally. Only in exceptional circumstances is it their job to deny entry to a visitor with a valid visa, and at almost no other border is it the job of the IO to act as a first line of defence. Policing a border in no-man's-land is enormously impractical, and even more so at the border of a country that receives so many visitors.

So, yeah. If a country wants to prevent unwanted visitors their first act should be to stop issuing visas to them.

In some surrounding Consulates they did refuse to issue visas, and red stamped passports that this would be the last one. I think I would have taken the hint, that if I was going to live here, I would get the correct visa.

[JimGant]

MFA and Immigration are two fiefdoms, with 'rice bowl' mentalities, i.e., coordination and harmonization of policies is the exception, not the rule. This topic has been discussed for ages here on ThaiVisa, with the Non Imm O-A "long-stay retirement" visa a prime example.

MFA knows that the O-A visas that they issue allow Immigration to stamp-in holders of such visas for a one-year permit of stay. Holders of other variety of Non Imm visas can only be stamped in for 90 days -- as surely everyone at MFA knows. Thus, if you want Immigration to permit you a one-year stay, you must have a Non Imm O-A (or another type of long stay visa, like the B-A). A regular Non Imm visa just won't work.

Now, several years ago Immigration asked permission of MFA to be able to issue Non Imm visas within Thailand, to facilitate the issuance of one year permits of stay to qualified individuals who had entered Thailand on other than a Non Imm visa. Why? Because the rules state that all one-year permits of stay must attach to a Non Imm visa. Thus, the now in-effect policy of allowing conversions within Thailand from visa exempt or tourist visa entries -- to a Non Imm visa -- for the purpose of receiving a one-year permit of stay stamp.

Now, MFA never bothered to discover just how Immigration implemented the new authority they had to issue Non Imm visas. MFA only knew that they -- MFA -- set the rules for visa issuance. And that only O-A visas allowed a one-year permission of stay stamp. Therefore, Immigration must certainly be following MFA's guidance, including the O-A requirement for a medical and police check. It's says so right on MFA's website:

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/123/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-%22O-A%22-%28Long-Stay%29.html

With the clincher being where to submit your O-A application:

3. Channels to submit application

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

Such MFA guidance has led to a lot of confusion about obtaining a O-A visa, which CANNOT be obtained in Thailand, but only abroad at a Thai embassy or consulate.

(For those still scratching their heads, an in-country conversion at Immigration consists of receiving a single entry Non Imm O visa (not O-A), and receiving a 90-day permit of stay. During the end of that stay, you return to Immigration to apply for your one-year extension of stay (based on retirement of marriage), with its subsequent one-year permit of stay stamp. And, no, since it's not an O-A visa you're getting, medical and police reports aren't required.)

Why MFA and Immigration can't get on the same sheet of music is perplexing. But, I guess, diplomats and cops don't play in the same foursome. Sigh.

[Absolut]

Legitimate tourists spend a lot of money and make a lot of plans relating to their international travel and vacations.

It's not unreasonable to expect that the country you're visiting have some semblance of clarity about what is required, and what is accepted or not, for incoming visitors. Likewise, there ought to be some correlation between the policy used by Consulates in granting or not granting visas and the policy used by Immigration Officers upon arrival.

Back when I was a tourist, I'd sometimes visit Thailand four times in a year, always on visa exempt 30-day entries and always for not more than a couple weeks at a time. I never once applied for a tourist visa because I had no reason or need to. But right now, if I were in the same situation getting ready to travel from my home country, I'm not sure I'd know what I ought to do and what to expect upon arrival in Thailand.

The Thai authorities need to settle on their policy as relates to visa exempt entries and tourist visas, particularly in regard to repeat uses of them, clearly state the policy to the public, and go about their business. How hard should that be?

I'm in that exact position, have 3 or more visa exempt entry and exit stamps in my passport each of the last 3 or so years. On each occasion I've stayed anything from 4 -14 days.

Personally I'm not worried, a check of the stamps would clearly show I'm a genuine tourist with usually 3 months or more in between each entry.

I'll have my airline itinerary showing my planned exit in 20 days, my hotel booking confirmations for my Bangkok, Hua Hin and Samui hotels and plenty of cash on hand.

Genuine tourists should be confident in my opinion of things being just as before.

[danspalmtree]

I have a question about temporary tourist visa stamp. Previously purchased a 60 day stay with a return flight to U.S. Now visa runs have changed. I was relying on 30 day temporary Visa stamp. If I fly into Bangkok with a plane ticket in hand to neighbor country before my 30 day expires, will I then be allowed to re-enter Bangkok by air and get another 30 day stamp for another tourist visa until my return flight back to U.S.? I now do not have enough time to apply for a 60 day tourist visa.

[paz]

I have a question about temporary tourist visa stamp. Previously purchased a 60 day stay with a return flight to U.S. Now visa runs have changed. I was relying on 30 day temporary Visa stamp. If I fly into Bangkok with a plane ticket in hand to neighbor country before my 30 day expires, will I then be allowed to re-enter Bangkok by air and get another 30 day stamp for another tourist visa until my return flight back to U.S.? I now do not have enough time to apply for a 60 day tourist visa.

You will need to check the situation at the time the visa exempt entry expires, worst case you will get a visa in a nearby country but that will be unlikely needed.

[RTH10260]

Clarification will come after the August 12th deadline.

Yes - I believe you are correct. However, it will take some time for that after the chaos sets in. Lines (queues) stacking up a obscure (in comparison) land border checkpoints is a far different thing than lines stacking up at an International Airport. Passengers who have flown 15,000 K. will not be in a mood to take being turned away lightly and when in large numbers - the noise will be loud. Then there is the factor of airlines being made responsible to pay for the flight back for those turned completely turned away. It will be a mess.

Even though people know that Thai Immigration Authorities are a no nonsense group of people - passengers trying to gain entry and denied after just getting a new visa in their home country will be incensed and will forget the risks they are taking.

Failure to a least give passengers who are set to fly up to 15,000 - 18000 kilometers a special case leaflet warning them that a newly issued tourist visas are going to be heavily scrutinized and does not guarantee entry and a similar warning for those going without a visa relying on an Exemption would be unconscionable. But I think it is going to happen.

And please before making 'cat call' comments remember most tourist who come to Thailand are not Thaivisa.com junkies and likely never heard of it.... so they are not going to know about any of this. Even those with many stamps in their passport.

I think it would be quite entertaining to sit near the immigration stations and watch the show that is going to happen - popcorn in hand.

I guess one of the criteria will be if visa from home country, then acceptable, the xthousand kilometer flight proof also, while a second visa in a neighbouring country with no or only short haul flight received shortly after the expiration of a previous visa is an indication of a possible problem.

[RTH10260]

Surely there must be some better way of informing visitors to Thailand about Visas rather than just scaremongering, innuendo and official and unofficial threats of a crackdown? Am I going to be refused entry at Swampy in a few days time just because I have a lot of stamps in my passport, and happen to love Thailand as a holiday destination, albeit frequently? I still work in Medical Research in the U.K. but am of retirement age, but do not want a Retirement or Non 0 Visa, but just the ability to visit Thailand when I choose because I love it as a country and have many friends there.

You are not the target of the crack down. You come freshly after having spent time in your home country. You have your airline tickets out and back home as proof.

You are not skipping for a few hours into a neighbouring country to refresh the visa duration. And you will not be a target if you visit and stay a couple of days in a neighbouring country either.

[RTH10260]

this is crazy , consulat give tourist visa , take money but officer imigration can denied entry in the country ....

money from visa can t refund too. paie but not sure can use ..this is no corect ...

The money is for the processing of the paperwork at the consulate, to cover their costs. They may even deny you the visa even when paid.

[RTH10260]

'... immigration officials saying that you are a tourist for 30 days, not more.' So Thais can visit, for example, the UK as a tourist, staying for several weeks on the standard visa, yet Thailand, more reliant on tourism than the UK, now considers more than 30 days to be non-tourist. It might be prudent for the Thai foreign ministry to make that clear to the embassies of all Thailand's main tourist producing countries.

From what I read the UK is the most difficult country for a Thai to even get a visa if not travelling with a package tour group.

[AYJAYDEE]

'... immigration officials saying that you are a tourist for 30 days, not more.' So Thais can visit, for example, the UK as a tourist, staying for several weeks on the standard visa, yet Thailand, more reliant on tourism than the UK, now considers more than 30 days to be non-tourist. It might be prudent for the Thai foreign ministry to make that clear to the embassies of all Thailand's main tourist producing countries.

From what I read the UK is the most difficult country for a Thai to even get a visa if not travelling with a package tour group.

canada could run them a close second