Halal processed food taking over our supermarkets...

[I knew this would happen]

Killing an animal should be fast, painless and effective!! Our industrialised killing of animals is acutally disgusting enough, but we all love our steaks so somehow it has to be done.

The thing is that the muslim or jewish style to kill the animals is intended to be "human" and not to torture them. Maybe this was an ok procedure some 100 years ago but nowadays there are better ways to do it and religion shouldn´t conflict with modern science.

I like to eat meat but I don´t want animals to suffer more than necessary. I grew up eating meat from local farmers and from my uncle´s farm, my family never liked to support the meat industry.

Halal style?

Edited July 21, 2014 by I knew this would happen

[ozsamurai]

A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Edited July 21, 2014 by ozsamurai

[samran]

A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Let's see, she buys halal and all the kids in her class can participate. She doesn't, some kids miss out. One is catetering to everyone. One isn't.

You have strange definitions of 'bending one way or another'.

Funny no one here has a problem with kosher food or those with gluten intolerance. All you care about is instilled 'us and them' attitudes with kids, no less.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[bkkjames]

A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Let's see, she buys halal and all the kids in her class can participate. She doesn't, some kids miss out. One is catetering to everyone. One isn't.

You have strange definitions of 'bending one way or another'.

Funny no one here has a problem with kosher food or those with gluten intolerance. All you care about is instilled 'us and them' attitudes with kids, no less.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Paying xtra to accommodate a religion regardless of the religion is different than gluten... I can choose to not buy gluten free but can I buy religion free of the same product at a cheaper price?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[I knew this would happen]

A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Let's see, she buys halal and all the kids in her class can participate. She doesn't, some kids miss out. One is catetering to everyone. One isn't.

You have strange definitions of 'bending one way or another'.

Funny no one here has a problem with kosher food or those with gluten intolerance. All you care about is instilled 'us and them' attitudes with kids, no less.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Paying xtra to accommodate a religion regardless of the religion is different than gluten... I can choose to not buy gluten free but can I buy religion free of the same product at a cheaper price?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Religion free product That´s the next big thing

[samran]

A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Let's see, she buys halal and all the kids in her class can participate. She doesn't, some kids miss out. One is catetering to everyone. One isn't.

You have strange definitions of 'bending one way or another'.

Funny no one here has a problem with kosher food or those with gluten intolerance. All you care about is instilled 'us and them' attitudes with kids, no less.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Paying xtra to accommodate a religion regardless of the religion is different than gluten... I can choose to not buy gluten free but can I buy religion free of the same product at a cheaper price?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

how is it paying extra? Is vegemite now more expensive now it has a halal certification? Are Tim Tams? Show me where there has been meteoric rises in food costs because of this?

[Kudel]

In the past TAT has been heavily promoting Thailand in the oil producing country's ,These tourists spend top dollar in Thailand the kind of tourists they want.So i can see why the need for halal food to accomodate said tourists.

[bkkjames]

A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Let's see, she buys halal and all the kids in her class can participate. She doesn't, some kids miss out. One is catetering to everyone. One isn't.

You have strange definitions of 'bending one way or another'.

Funny no one here has a problem with kosher food or those with gluten intolerance. All you care about is instilled 'us and them' attitudes with kids, no less.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Paying xtra to accommodate a religion regardless of the religion is different than gluten... I can choose to not buy gluten free but can I buy religion free of the same product at a cheaper price?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

how is it paying extra? Is vegemite now more expensive now it has a halal certification? Are Tim Tams? Show me where there has been meteoric rises in food costs because of this?

So you are sure there are no extra costs associated with these certifications?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[samran]

A more interesting point to make is the associated 'cost' involved in Halal. My sister has been an educator in Australia for many years, teaching Home Economics, which of course includes a cooking class. She has now been "forced" to purchase Halal food against her own conscience. It goes like this...... If she does not purchase Halal food, then she is discriminating against students who are required to eat it. The school budget does not allow for the purchase of Halal, which IS more expensive. It also limits the curriculum she is then allowed to teach, certain recipes must be excluded as they can not be made Halal. My sister is a soft touch, and she like a lot of teachers, just takes the extra from her own pay packet and gets on with it. There are costs well beyond that people do not see. Last I checked multi-culturalism, does not mean bending to one way of thinking or a religion.

Oz

Let's see, she buys halal and all the kids in her class can participate. She doesn't, some kids miss out. One is catetering to everyone. One isn't.

You have strange definitions of 'bending one way or another'.

Funny no one here has a problem with kosher food or those with gluten intolerance. All you care about is instilled 'us and them' attitudes with kids, no less.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Paying xtra to accommodate a religion regardless of the religion is different than gluten... I can choose to not buy gluten free but can I buy religion free of the same product at a cheaper price?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

how is it paying extra? Is vegemite now more expensive now it has a halal certification? Are Tim Tams? Show me where there has been meteoric rises in food costs because of this?

So you are sure there are no extra costs associated with these certifications?

Sent from my LG-P970 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sure there are. But ask yourself, why are they getting certified? To sell more product. Take the simple example of Tim Tams, you get a certificate Indonesia is suddenly open to you as a market. You sell more.

Basic economics, sell more and average unit costs of production go down, not up. Economies of scale. The small investment in certification pays off in a larger market.

Generally you can take for granted that your average bigot is also an Economic illiterate. This isn't any different.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[bkkjames]

Sure there are. But ask yourself, why are they getting certified? To sell more product. Take the simple example of Tim Tams, you get a certificate Indonesia is suddenly open to you as a market. You sell more.

Basic economics, sell more and average unit costs of production go down, not up. Economies of scale. The small investment in certification pays off in a larger market.

Generally you can take for granted that your average bigot is also an Economic illiterate. This isn't any different.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Ok makes sense in markets that are predomiently one religeon or another - however what about in countries say TH for example that are 95% non-muslim.. Should the 95% have to buy Halal or Kosher food products? Should these products not be CLEARLY labelled as such. I don't think the onus should be on the avg Thai consumer to look at the back of every product to the fine print to see if it is or is not..

I can remember from my time in Dubai that one could buy pork / non Halal products in some supermarkets - in dedicated sections only...just seems to be a double standard... Not sure where you are going with the Bigot statement...

Edited July 21, 2014 by bkkjames

[samran]

Sure there are. But ask yourself, why are they getting certified? To sell more product. Take the simple example of Tim Tams, you get a certificate Indonesia is suddenly open to you as a market. You sell more.

Basic economics, sell more and average unit costs of production go down, not up. Economies of scale. The small investment in certification pays off in a larger market.

Generally you can take for granted that your average bigot is also an Economic illiterate. This isn't any different.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Ok makes sense in markets that are predomiently one religeon or another - however what about in countries say TH for example that are 95% non-muslim.. Should the 95% have to buy Halal or Kosher food products? Should these products not be CLEARLY labelled as such. I don't think the onus should be on the avg Thai consumer to look at the back of every product to the fine print to see if it is or is not..

I can remember from my time in Dubai that one could buy pork / non Halal products in some supermarkets - in dedicated sections only...just seems to be a double standard... Not sure where you are going with the Bigot statement...

So you are basically disagreeing with providing transparent clear information about the nature of a product so consumers know what they are buying. You are having a laugh aren't you?

I don't think a producer who sells exclusively in Thailand or Australia is going to get certification unless they believe it is worth their while. But, the OP was talkng about Tesco. Global company, with global suppliers. They sell far far further afield than just Thailand. Malaysia is just across the border. Indoneisa is a stones throw away. For them, it is just common business sense to have their product available to the widest audience possible. (again, just to note, Thailand has 4 million muslims. You'd be a fool not to try and cater to them).

There seems to be an underlying theme here that somehow your food suppliers have been 'forced into this'. Can't be further from the truth. Commercial enterprises are nothing but pragmatists. If it involves there being a short prayer being said invoking the name of god before an animal is slaughtered with a sharp knife, then they'll do it.

If it means them puting a 'halal certified' on a pack of Kit Kats, then they'll do it.

The bigot comment is pretty clear. People runing around saying 'prices are rising, prices are rising' with absolutely no evidence. In fact, their claims can only be contrary to basic economics, which I've already outlined.

Edited July 21, 2014 by samran

[ozsamurai]

Since we are talking Australia I can only give you hard details about her situation. Safeway or Coles, are the two major chains of supermarkets. They do not sell only Halal products, despite.

Australia is one of the largest meat exporters in the world and is a world leader in halal production. One of its largest export markets is the United States of America, and Australian meat is widely sold all over America in numerous butchers, restaurants, and retailers. The majority of this meat is labeled as ‘halal’ and certified by a Halal organization in Australia. The halal meat industry in America is largely unregulated and there is widespread abuse in the usage of ‘halal’ labels and ‘halal’ certificates. For this reason, it is extremely important for the Muslim community in America to verify the halal status of Australian meat and obtain first-hand information on the halal process in Australia.

So, a simple purchase of any meat requires a specialist butcher be used, which are not 'market price', which is what the school budget allows for. So clearly it is more expensive. Two stores, petrol, time and the cost. I thought perhaps that was self evident.

At what point does the exclusion of a student constitute discrimination? If you have a classroom of 30 and 1 needs Halal or 10 or 26? where is the line drawn? Simply put, it is 1. For if that student can no longer participate in the educational activity due to the inability of the school to provide Halal, in a non-muslim country, that would be blatant discrimination. So, all students must fall in line to meet the needs of one. Freedom of religion is our personal choice and one all our democracies fight to defend, my objection is not anti-muslim, but ant-institutionalization of anyone's religious practices. Should we be made to wear the burkha now to respect our fellow "Aussies"

Oz

[samran]

Since we are talking Australia I can only give you hard details about her situation. Safeway or Coles, are the two major chains of supermarkets. They do not sell only Halal products, despite.

Australia is one of the largest meat exporters in the world and is a world leader in halal production. One of its largest export markets is the United States of America, and Australian meat is widely sold all over America in numerous butchers, restaurants, and retailers. The majority of this meat is labeled as ‘halal’ and certified by a Halal organization in Australia. The halal meat industry in America is largely unregulated and there is widespread abuse in the usage of ‘halal’ labels and ‘halal’ certificates. For this reason, it is extremely important for the Muslim community in America to verify the halal status of Australian meat and obtain first-hand information on the halal process in Australia.

So, a simple purchase of any meat requires a specialist butcher be used, which are not 'market price', which is what the school budget allows for. So clearly it is more expensive. Two stores, petrol, time and the cost. I thought perhaps that was self evident.

At what point does the exclusion of a student constitute discrimination? If you have a classroom of 30 and 1 needs Halal or 10 or 26? where is the line drawn? Simply put, it is 1. For if that student can no longer participate in the educational activity due to the inability of the school to provide Halal, in a non-muslim country, that would be blatant discrimination. So, all students must fall in line to meet the needs of one. Freedom of religion is our personal choice and one all our democracies fight to defend, my objection is not anti-muslim, but ant-institutionalization of anyone's religious practices. Should we be made to wear the burkha now to respect our fellow "Aussies"

Oz

Great, can I only have blond hair and blue eyes to be be considered an Aussie? Better hand by passport back then.

There is a massive flaw and contradiction in your argument. You can't be at once one of the largest exporters of hahal meat in the world and a world leader in production of halal meat and all this happen in a 'specialist butcher'.

Edited July 21, 2014 by samran

[bkkjames]

Sure there are. But ask yourself, why are they getting certified? To sell more product. Take the simple example of Tim Tams, you get a certificate Indonesia is suddenly open to you as a market. You sell more.

Basic economics, sell more and average unit costs of production go down, not up. Economies of scale. The small investment in certification pays off in a larger market.

Generally you can take for granted that your average bigot is also an Economic illiterate. This isn't any different.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Ok makes sense in markets that are predomiently one religeon or another - however what about in countries say TH for example that are 95% non-muslim.. Should the 95% have to buy Halal or Kosher food products? Should these products not be CLEARLY labelled as such. I don't think the onus should be on the avg Thai consumer to look at the back of every product to the fine print to see if it is or is not..

I can remember from my time in Dubai that one could buy pork / non Halal products in some supermarkets - in dedicated sections only...just seems to be a double standard... Not sure where you are going with the Bigot statement...

So you are basically disagreeing with providing transparent clear information about the nature of a product so consumers know what they are buying. You are having a laugh aren't you?

I don't think a producer who sells exclusively in Thailand or Australia is going to get certification unless they believe it is worth their while. But, the OP was talkng about Tesco. Global company, with global suppliers. They sell far far further afield than just Thailand. Malaysia is just across the border. Indoneisa is a stones throw away. For them, it is just common business sense to have their product available to the widest audience possible. (again, just to note, Thailand has 4 million muslims. You'd be a fool not to try and cater to them).

There seems to be an underlying theme here that somehow your food suppliers have been 'forced into this'. Can't be further from the truth. Commercial enterprises are nothing but pragmatists. If it involves there being a short prayer being said invoking the name of god before an animal is slaughtered with a sharp knife, then they'll do it.

If it means them puting a 'halal certified' on a pack of Kit Kats, then they'll do it.

The bigot comment is pretty clear. People runing around saying 'prices are rising, prices are rising' with absolutely no evidence. In fact, their claims can only be contrary to basic economics, which I've already outlined.

Well we will differ in our opinion and leave it at that - I won't lower myself to petty namecalling out of respect of your Special TV status.

[ozsamurai]

http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-17960.html

A discussion thread of Muslims in Australia, verifying the in-availability of Halal meat. Take it from the horse's mouth. There is no contradiction. Although as a major producer of Halal meat, it is not abundant on our shelves.

Here is the full article link

http://halaladvocates.net/site/our-resources/australia/

As to your comment about blonde hair and blue eyes, now that's just racist, and in that case I would love to personally burn your passport myself!

Oz

[samran]

http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-17960.html

A discussion thread of Muslims in Australia, verifying the in-availability of Halal meat. Take it from the horse's mouth. There is no contradiction. Although as a major producer of Halal meat, it is not abundant on our shelves.

Here is the full article link

http://halaladvocates.net/site/our-resources/australia/

As to your comment about blonde hair and blue eyes, now that's just racist, and in that case I would love to personally burn your passport myself!

Oz

I'm not the one putting the word Aussie in inverted commas, to imply that they aren't really.

As for links, I can play that game too...

http://www.beefcentral.com/trade/australian-beef-as-halal-as-it-gets-middle-eastern-reporters-discover/

This isn't some small specialist market these days, especially as a huge bulk of our meat actually heads to the ME.

[Neurath]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Since we are talking Australia I can only give you hard details about her situation. Safeway or Coles, are the two major chains of supermarkets. They do not sell only Halal products, despite.

Australia is one of the largest meat exporters in the world and is a world leader in halal production. One of its largest export markets is the United States of America, and Australian meat is widely sold all over America in numerous butchers, restaurants, and retailers. The majority of this meat is labeled as ‘halal’ and certified by a Halal organization in Australia. The halal meat industry in America is largely unregulated and there is widespread abuse in the usage of ‘halal’ labels and ‘halal’ certificates. For this reason, it is extremely important for the Muslim community in America to verify the halal status of Australian meat and obtain first-hand information on the halal process in Australia.

So, a simple purchase of any meat requires a specialist butcher be used, which are not 'market price', which is what the school budget allows for. So clearly it is more expensive. Two stores, petrol, time and the cost. I thought perhaps that was self evident.

At what point does the exclusion of a student constitute discrimination? If you have a classroom of 30 and 1 needs Halal or 10 or 26? where is the line drawn? Simply put, it is 1. For if that student can no longer participate in the educational activity due to the inability of the school to provide Halal, in a non-muslim country, that would be blatant discrimination. So, all students must fall in line to meet the needs of one. Freedom of religion is our personal choice and one all our democracies fight to defend, my objection is not anti-muslim, but ant-institutionalization of anyone's religious practices. Should we be made to wear the burkha now to respect our fellow "Aussies"

Oz

When I went to school we had to say the Lord's Prayer before we could eat. Once got slapped across the back of the legs for not doing it too. This was in a public/government school too. Now the government pays for Chaplains in public schools. Institutionalize Leviticus I say.

[ozsamurai]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-17960.html

A discussion thread of Muslims in Australia, verifying the in-availability of Halal meat. Take it from the horse's mouth. There is no contradiction. Although as a major producer of Halal meat, it is not abundant on our shelves.

Here is the full article link

http://halaladvocates.net/site/our-resources/australia/

As to your comment about blonde hair and blue eyes, now that's just racist, and in that case I would love to personally burn your passport myself!

Oz

I'm not the one putting the word Aussie in inverted commas, to imply that they aren't really.

As for links, I can play that game too...

http://www.beefcentral.com/trade/australian-beef-as-halal-as-it-gets-middle-eastern-reporters-discover/

This isn't some small specialist market these days, especially as a huge bulk of our meat actually heads to the ME.

Obviously you didn't bother to actually read the article supporting your post. It is a piece on meat inspection for export of an Australian Halal Exporter. Not, as I said an indication that main stream produce on the shelves of the major supermarkets is Halal. It is still VERY MUCH, a commodity that has to be searched out, and thus is more expensive. Quoting the article even..... After the admittedly difficult to watch process....delegates from the Middle East....

but I don't really enter the killing method argument, I introduced another aspect was all. I'm a firm believer in the old saying. If it walk and talks like a duck, then its a duck. Thus the "Aussies" quote. You and many other have been on this forum deploring Farang who want to live their life like they are in the west and not be Thai, yet can not see a double standard right in front of your face here?

Oz

[FruitforDessert]

Yeah, the Islamist agenda is scary. It's unfortunate that such a large percentage of SE Asians adhere to the oppressive and scary religion. If only southern SE Asia had stayed buddhist...

[sustento]

Everybody seems to think this all happened 10 minutes ago. I was on ships carrying halal meat from Oz to the Gulf back in the 70s.

[ozsamurai]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Since we are talking Australia I can only give you hard details about her situation. Safeway or Coles, are the two major chains of supermarkets. They do not sell only Halal products, despite.

Australia is one of the largest meat exporters in the world and is a world leader in halal production. One of its largest export markets is the United States of America, and Australian meat is widely sold all over America in numerous butchers, restaurants, and retailers. The majority of this meat is labeled as ‘halal’ and certified by a Halal organization in Australia. The halal meat industry in America is largely unregulated and there is widespread abuse in the usage of ‘halal’ labels and ‘halal’ certificates. For this reason, it is extremely important for the Muslim community in America to verify the halal status of Australian meat and obtain first-hand information on the halal process in Australia.

So, a simple purchase of any meat requires a specialist butcher be used, which are not 'market price', which is what the school budget allows for. So clearly it is more expensive. Two stores, petrol, time and the cost. I thought perhaps that was self evident.

At what point does the exclusion of a student constitute discrimination? If you have a classroom of 30 and 1 needs Halal or 10 or 26? where is the line drawn? Simply put, it is 1. For if that student can no longer participate in the educational activity due to the inability of the school to provide Halal, in a non-muslim country, that would be blatant discrimination. So, all students must fall in line to meet the needs of one. Freedom of religion is our personal choice and one all our democracies fight to defend, my objection is not anti-muslim, but ant-institutionalization of anyone's religious practices. Should we be made to wear the burkha now to respect our fellow "Aussies"

Oz

When I went to school we had to say the Lord's Prayer before we could eat. Once got slapped across the back of the legs for not doing it too. This was in a public/government school too. Now the government pays for Chaplains in public schools. Institutionalize Leviticus I say.

And as of today, schools are no longer permitted to show any religious decorations, such as Easter, XMas as it may offend. How the pendulum has swung!!

Oz

[samran]

http://www.aussiemuslims.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-17960.html

A discussion thread of Muslims in Australia, verifying the in-availability of Halal meat. Take it from the horse's mouth. There is no contradiction. Although as a major producer of Halal meat, it is not abundant on our shelves.

Here is the full article link

http://halaladvocates.net/site/our-resources/australia/

As to your comment about blonde hair and blue eyes, now that's just racist, and in that case I would love to personally burn your passport myself!

Oz

I'm not the one putting the word Aussie in inverted commas, to imply that they aren't really.

As for links, I can play that game too...

http://www.beefcentral.com/trade/australian-beef-as-halal-as-it-gets-middle-eastern-reporters-discover/

This isn't some small specialist market these days, especially as a huge bulk of our meat actually heads to the ME.

Obviously you didn't bother to actually read the article supporting your post. It is a piece on meat inspection for export of an Australian Halal Exporter. Not, as I said an indication that main stream produce on the shelves of the major supermarkets is Halal. It is still VERY MUCH, a commodity that has to be searched out, and thus is more expensive. Quoting the article even..... After the admittedly difficult to watch process....delegates from the Middle East....

but I don't really enter the killing method argument, I introduced another aspect was all. I'm a firm believer in the old saying. If it walk and talks like a duck, then its a duck. Thus the "Aussies" quote. You and many other have been on this forum deploring Farang who want to live their life like they are in the west and not be Thai, yet can not see a double standard right in front of your face here?

Oz

I actually have no problem with farangs living life here as they do in the west. I really don't. I certainly enjoyed a tolerant attitude in OZ growing up towards my family who imported many things to australia culture and language wise. Some of my aunts and uncles don't speak much English after 35 years there, but they have worked their entire lives.

I do have problems with people here on TV when they then have a go about the perceived failings of foreigners 'back home'. It's the hypocrisy not the actual way of life I have issues with.

I've actually said time and again, if you want to have a successful life in Thailand, don't do things very much different that what you do at home. Follow the rules, drive properly, don't try and scam the system and you'll find that life in Thailand is actually quite pleasant.

Do I think people should try and learn the language? Sure, it helps a lot. But I'm not going to force anyone.

I guess in just more of an accommodating bloke that you are. Just trying to afford to others the latitude and understanding which was shown to my family when I was growing up in OZ.

And I still don't get your walk like a duck comment. You mean if they wear a Burkah or hijab they aren't Aussies?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ozsamurai]

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Yeah, the Islamist agenda is scary. It's unfortunate that such a large percentage of SE Asians adhere to the oppressive and scary religion. If only southern SE Asia had stayed buddhist...

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/opinion/el-indio-true-caliphate/#.U8xt6b-PIeA.facebook

Interesting piece.

Don't agree with it all, but thought provoking.

Oz

[giddyup]

Everybody seems to think this all happened 10 minutes ago. I was on ships carrying halal meat from Oz to the Gulf back in the 70s.

I think 60 Minutes or A Current Affair did a big expose of the inhumane way those sheep were being treated .

[sustento]

Everybody seems to think this all happened 10 minutes ago. I was on ships carrying halal meat from Oz to the Gulf back in the 70s.

I think 60 Minutes or A Current Affair did a big expose of the inhumane way those sheep were being treated .

The ships I was on carried dead sheep in reefers. There wasn't much chance to treat them inhumanely.

[giddyup]

Everybody seems to think this all happened 10 minutes ago. I was on ships carrying halal meat from Oz to the Gulf back in the 70s.

I think 60 Minutes or A Current Affair did a big expose of the inhumane way those sheep were being treated .

The ships I was on carried dead sheep in reefers. There wasn't much chance to treat them inhumanely.

I thought the Arab states insisted that the sheep were shipped alive. Maybe that came later.

Edited July 21, 2014 by giddyup

[i claudius]

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Since we are talking Australia I can only give you hard details about her situation. Safeway or Coles, are the two major chains of supermarkets. They do not sell only Halal products, despite.

Australia is one of the largest meat exporters in the world and is a world leader in halal production. One of its largest export markets is the United States of America, and Australian meat is widely sold all over America in numerous butchers, restaurants, and retailers. The majority of this meat is labeled as ‘halal’ and certified by a Halal organization in Australia. The halal meat industry in America is largely unregulated and there is widespread abuse in the usage of ‘halal’ labels and ‘halal’ certificates. For this reason, it is extremely important for the Muslim community in America to verify the halal status of Australian meat and obtain first-hand information on the halal process in Australia.

So, a simple purchase of any meat requires a specialist butcher be used, which are not 'market price', which is what the school budget allows for. So clearly it is more expensive. Two stores, petrol, time and the cost. I thought perhaps that was self evident.

At what point does the exclusion of a student constitute discrimination? If you have a classroom of 30 and 1 needs Halal or 10 or 26? where is the line drawn? Simply put, it is 1. For if that student can no longer participate in the educational activity due to the inability of the school to provide Halal, in a non-muslim country, that would be blatant discrimination. So, all students must fall in line to meet the needs of one. Freedom of religion is our personal choice and one all our democracies fight to defend, my objection is not anti-muslim, but ant-institutionalization of anyone's religious practices. Should we be made to wear the burkha now to respect our fellow "Aussies"

Oz

When I went to school we had to say the Lord's Prayer before we could eat. Once got slapped across the back of the legs for not doing it too. This was in a public/government school too. Now the government pays for Chaplains in public schools. Institutionalize Leviticus I say.

And as of today, schools are no longer permitted to show any religious decorations, such as Easter, XMas as it may offend. How the pendulum has swung!!

Oz

The way i see it ,we bend over backwards to accomodate Muslims ,but they dont give a shit about what we think ,its a one way street

[bina]

dont understand the point really; so what?

for jews in thailand it helps cause no pork, and the slaughter is similar (for observant jews its a no go , but for those like my son who just dont eat pork or shellfish, its fine)...

i ate in halal food venues in ayuthaya; so what?

half the stuff americans buy also has a K FOR KOSHER on it and they dont notice... for those that it is important to them, they notice, otherwise, who cares.

funnily enough, the arab guys (muslems all) who work with us att he hotel are all religious (not fanatic, just religious) filled their suitcase up with instant soups and stuff from here (kosher, not halal, but same same) cause they didnt trust any food in thaialnd at all (dog, cat tiger, they are pretty ignorant about it all); when i suggested that they go to halal restaraunts, they didnt even know there are muslems in thailand or halal food.

i was the one to search and find info for them.

when we go out on worker fun days, its all kosher to encompass all the 'no eating pork' contigency and also the jewish side of the 'not mixing meat and milk' as there is one group of muslems in one village who do not mix milk and meat either (they cant explain why, maybe they had jewish family members as well who knows)...

so if i come from our little 'war torn' country and dont care about halal in stores, why shoudl you?

[NeverSure]

dont understand the point really; so what?

for jews in thailand it helps cause no pork, and the slaughter is similar (for observant jews its a no go , but for those like my son who just dont eat pork or shellfish, its fine)...

i ate in halal food venues in ayuthaya; so what?

half the stuff americans buy also has a K FOR KOSHER on it and they dont notice... for those that it is important to them, they notice, otherwise, who cares.

funnily enough, the arab guys (muslems all) who work with us att he hotel are all religious (not fanatic, just religious) filled their suitcase up with instant soups and stuff from here (kosher, not halal, but same same) cause they didnt trust any food in thaialnd at all (dog, cat tiger, they are pretty ignorant about it all); when i suggested that they go to halal restaraunts, they didnt even know there are muslems in thailand or halal food.

i was the one to search and find info for them.

when we go out on worker fun days, its all kosher to encompass all the 'no eating pork' contigency and also the jewish side of the 'not mixing meat and milk' as there is one group of muslems in one village who do not mix milk and meat either (they cant explain why, maybe they had jewish family members as well who knows)...

so if i come from our little 'war torn' country and dont care about halal in stores, why shoudl you?

"so if i come from our little 'war torn' country and dont care about halal in stores, why shoudl you?"

I'm really sorry that your friends and family are living in a war torn area. I read your other post about incoming rockets. I'm sorry.

About the Halai food, I just watched some videos of animals being killed. I've never seen such cruelty to animals and I refuse to support that with my money, and I refuse to eat that meat.

If I and the men I grew up around on a large cattle ranch caught someone doing that....

Nevermind.

Edited July 21, 2014 by NeverSure

[monkeycountry]

Since we are talking Australia I can only give you hard details about her situation. Safeway or Coles, are the two major chains of supermarkets. They do not sell only Halal products, despite.

Australia is one of the largest meat exporters in the world and is a world leader in halal production. One of its largest export markets is the United States of America, and Australian meat is widely sold all over America in numerous butchers, restaurants, and retailers. The majority of this meat is labeled as halal and certified by a Halal organization in Australia. The halal meat industry in America is largely unregulated and there is widespread abuse in the usage of halal labels and halal certificates. For this reason, it is extremely important for the Muslim community in America to verify the halal status of Australian meat and obtain first-hand information on the halal process in Australia.

So, a simple purchase of any meat requires a specialist butcher be used, which are not 'market price', which is what the school budget allows for. So clearly it is more expensive. Two stores, petrol, time and the cost. I thought perhaps that was self evident.

At what point does the exclusion of a student constitute discrimination? If you have a classroom of 30 and 1 needs Halal or 10 or 26? where is the line drawn? Simply put, it is 1. For if that student can no longer participate in the educational activity due to the inability of the school to provide Halal, in a non-muslim country, that would be blatant discrimination. So, all students must fall in line to meet the needs of one. Freedom of religion is our personal choice and one all our democracies fight to defend, my objection is not anti-muslim, but ant-institutionalization of anyone's religious practices. Should we be made to wear the burkha now to respect our fellow "Aussies"

Oz

In my home country some schools no longer serve pork for the kids. As it is too costly to have both pork and beef served together - according to the schools.

So obviously the need to cater to muslim kids means denying the local kids pork, which is an ingredient in quite a few national dishes.