Gaza and Israel suffer deadliest day

[ezzra]

Most people fail to understand that this conflict has a far reaching mechanism than the average person can understand, where by counties like Iran and Saudi Arabia and others  have a vast interests in the region 

be it ideological , tribal , or just self interests that only know to them,

Hamas is being funded, armed and supplied, and dictated largely by Iran a sate sponsoring terrorism,

so it's not only Israel-Hamas-Palestinians  fighting each other,  and it hasn't been like that for many years,

and until the big bosses in Teheran, Riyadh and Doha will say otherwise blood will continue to be shad

and mothers will continue to cry on both side of the divides...

[poweratradio]

I lived in Lebanon for 2 years and I never understood then anymore than I understand now why a child like Hamas is so stupid as to take on the giant parent which always ends with a sound spanking for the child. It must be the heat of summer causing no-mind thinking.

[kblaze]

 

You miss the point completely, but then, you don't want to get the point. Like all pro-Israelis you point blank refuse to see the immense inequity between the two sides, the huge difference in defence or attack capability, and the greatly disproportionate amount of damage/death inflicted in this tit-for-tat long-running conflict.

 

 

I totally agree with you on this point, which makes me wonder why Hamas continue day in day out to fire rockets indiscriminately into Israel, knowing that the end result can only have one possible outcome?

 

 

 

They are militants. Just like Thailand, there is a lot of saving "face" going on. These are ignorant, arrogant, fanatical guys, who don't want to show any weakness and cater to the extremists among the population. 

 

Most of their leaders have been arrested, killed or have fled. So can you imagine who's left? They are more disorganized than ever and the only thing the separate factions know how to do is fire off useless rockets. Their demands aren't being met so they will continue.

here are their latest demands...as far as I am aware of..

 

"Hamas's demands include an end of the "war on the Gaza Strip," a complete lift of the siege on it, opening the Rafah crossing with Egypt, freedom of movement in the border areas, cancelling the buffer zone and expanding the freedom to fish 12 nautical miles from shore.

In addition, Hamas demands the release of its members who had been freed in a 2011 deal and recently re-arrested in an Israeli crackdown on the West Bank."

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/hamas-says-invited-for/1272936.html

[ezzra]

I lived in Lebanon for 2 years and I never understood then anymore than I understand now why a child like Hamas is so stupid as to take on the giant parent which always ends with a sound spanking for the child. It must be the heat of summer causing no-mind thinking.

 

The sanctity of life in some Arabs minds are worthless, their misguided pride, their kowtowing 

to leadership that clearly willingly  happy to sacrifice the poor people life while they and their

cronies are in a deep under ground bunkers, knowing very well that Qatar and Iran and others

will fund the rebuilding of Gaza again, until the next war that is, and so the cycle of violence

is being perpetuated over and over again and the expense of the people of Gaza....

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

Hamas didn't fire rockets (June 28) in the present round of violence until Israel had spent 2 weeks imprisoning 300 Hamas members, destroying Palestinian homes, and loosing air strikes on Gaza on the pretext of looking for 3 kidnapped Israeli teenagers, who they knew were already dead.(June 12)

Why do you insist on continually posting incorrect information, even though you are often caught? Rockets and mortars have been fired from Gaza throughout every single month of 2014 including all of June - starting on June 1. Hamas was shooting rockets at Israeli civilians both before the teenagers were murdered AND afterwards.

 

  2 rockets were fired by Islamic Jihad both landing in fields without any injuries..one on June 1, and one on June 11.

 

Wrong again. There were rockets fired on: June 1, June 11, June 14, June 15, June 16, June 18, June 19, June 20, June 21, June 24 and June 27. All before your claim that the Palestinians did not start firing until June 28. Once again, your version of events is fallacious.




 

[up-country_sinclair]

^

I presume you have a link to support your claim?  By the way, you posted photos on the previous page without a link.  Please supply a link that indicates from when and where those photos were taken. 

[Eliot Rosewater]

 

Hamas didn't fire rockets (June 28) in the present round of violence until Israel had spent 2 weeks imprisoning 300 Hamas members, destroying Palestinian homes, and loosing air strikes on Gaza on the pretext of looking for 3 kidnapped Israeli teenagers, who they knew were already dead.(June 12)

Why do you insist on continually posting incorrect information, even though you are often caught? Rockets and mortars have been fired from Gaza every single month of 2014 including all of June - starting on June 1.
 

 
Still curious to know why you support an invading force who has a race of people imprisoned? I really don't care what Hama's does to Israeli forces, as its about the same treatment the Israel and US give them. Ive met plenty of Palestine people hiding out in Thailand and the story's they have to tell... Maybe you would like to go through countless checks points just to get home with the chance of being shot or imprisoned for no reason. Maybe you would like have your only land surrounded by your occupiers. 
 
Get down off your horse before a hama's missile hits you. 

A race of people imprisoned??
Your ignorance knows no bounds

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[Seastallion]

 

 

 

Hamas didn't fire rockets (June 28) in the present round of violence until Israel had spent 2 weeks imprisoning 300 Hamas members, destroying Palestinian homes, and loosing air strikes on Gaza on the pretext of looking for 3 kidnapped Israeli teenagers, who they knew were already dead.(June 12)

Why do you insist on continually posting incorrect information, even though you are often caught? Rockets and mortars have been fired from Gaza every single month of 2014 including all of June - starting on June 1.

 

 
Still curious to know why you support an invading force who has a race of people imprisoned?

 

You are kind of ignoring the fact that the Palestinians started the conflict in the first place and have shot 15,000 missiles at civilians. The terrorist group Hamas and the people who elected them have made their own bed.

 

You are kind of ignoring that Jewish European refugees started it by invading Palestinian lands and confiscating entire villages, within living memory.

[joepublic]

To anyone who has watched the plight of the Palestinians over the decades, it is abundantly clear that there will never be justice for them under the current status quo. The only language that works is might and the creation and continued existence of Israel proves this assertion.

 

 Thus it is self-evident that the only way the Palestinians will achieve anything is if they can get a weapon that will make Israel feel fear.

 

Does it seem far-fetched that this weapon could ever be obtained? Should the Zionists be worried?

 

Well, we already see the offensive capabilities of the occupied people reach an entirely new level - a rainstorm of rockets, crude, ineffective - yes, but the sheer volume is an advantage that could be leveraged.

 

Surely, It won't take much more development before these starting getting thru - and due to the asymmetric nature of the conflict between the Zionist and the Palestinians all that is required is a few good hits on the self-evident targets inside Israel.

 

And Iron Dome may not be able to save them.

 

 Such a calamity,  when it happens to the inhabitants of Israel will be as cruel as the cluster bombs that were used against Gaza, but should this happen, there its likely to get the Zionists to start moving from conflict management to conflict resolution

 

Let acknowledge elephant in this room.

 

There is no future in negotiating with the current Israeli administration - they  have everything they want and nothing to coerce them to concede one inch.

 

The Palestinians have to get a weapon of last resort for the following reasons.

 

There is no other way to resist the occupation and collective punishment being inflicted on the Palestinians.

 

The current international system does not care about what is right, just who is the most powerful.

 

 

Finally, before the two Zionist apologists on this board attack this post, with their predictable and boring "anti-semetic" positioning tactics, I want to make this point.

 

Most Jewish people know what is happening to the Palestinians is wrong and cruel, but their political landscape has been hijacked by a fanatical right wing that makes the Taliban seem like the Boy Scouts so their voices cannot be heard. If the pair of you think you represent moderate Jewish opinion, then go and read Harretz.com.

 

 

 

 

[brianP]

 I still remember the Palestinians out celebrating the day after 9-11. Now they are not celebrating!

[brianP]

 I still remember the Palestinians out celebrating the day after 9-11. Now they are not celebrating!

[kblaze]

 I still remember the Palestinians out celebrating the day after 9-11. Now they are not celebrating!

 

Zero relevance to this topic. 

 

It appears anytime there is an ebbing of pro-Israel pro-US sentiment, you can count on someone drudging up 9/11 or the Holocaust to keep the flames of hate alive and healthy. 

[Ulysses G.]

 I still remember the Palestinians out celebrating the day after 9-11. Now they are not celebrating!

 

Only when they shoot missiles at Israeli civilians.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqVady9g5V8

[simple1]

 

I lived in Lebanon for 2 years and I never understood then anymore than I understand now why a child like Hamas is so stupid as to take on the giant parent which always ends with a sound spanking for the child. It must be the heat of summer causing no-mind thinking.

There is a method to Hamas' madness...

..by provoking Israel, they can then point to the death and destruction that inevitably follows, hoping to get international sympathy and much coveted moolah.

It's the only 'industry' that exists there really.

It's a form of extortion..plain and simple.

 

 

I assume the World Bank is not overly sympathic to Palestinian resistance, economics must be one of the driving factors for continual conflict. From a World bank report headed "World Bank report says settlements crush Palestinian economy"; URL below.

 

"More than half the land in the West Bank, much of it agricultural and resource rich, is inaccessible to Palestinians. The first comprehensive study of the potential impact of this ‘restricted land,’ released by the World Bank today, sets the current loss to the Palestinian economy at about US$3.4 billion"

 

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/settlements-palestinian-economy.html

 

In addition Israel does utilise restrictions and control over the economy for applying political pressure. Some more detail at:

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/oct/14/palestine-economy-how-does-it-work

 

[Ulysses G.]

To anyone who has watched the plight of the Palestinians over the decades, it is abundantly clear that there will never be justice for them under the current status quo. The only language that works is might

That is exactly the kind of thinking that got the Palestinians into this pickle to start with. They started the conflict and have been getting their butts handed to them for over 100 years. They have failed militarily over and over again and things are not going to change any time soon. It is time for them to sigh a peace treaty while they still have a chance.

[up-country_sinclair]

 

I presume you have a link to support your claim?  By the way, you posted photos on the previous page without a link.  Please supply a link that indicates from when and where those photos were taken. 

 

Perhaps you missed by post in reference to your post (# 36 ).

 

 

 

  2 rockets were fired by Islamic Jihad both landing in fields without any injuries..one on June 1, and one on June 11.

 

Wrong again. There were rockets fired on: June 1, June 11, June 14, June 15, June 16, June 18, June 19, June 20, June 21, June 24 and June 27. All before your claim that the Palestinians did not start firing until June 28. Once again, your version of events is fallacious.

 

 

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the rules state that you must supply a link--particularly when you cite specific dates and claim another poster's version is fallacious.

Edited July 21, 2014 by up-country_sinclair

[siampolee]

It is rather sad that those who claim they lost 6 million of their own in the last war seem totally oblivious to the fact that in many ways they are behaving in the same style as those they stillm accuse and have continued accusing of geonocide.

 

 Note that those of different  ethic persusions are and were included in that 6 million figure.

 

Hypocrisy is the word that springs to mind concerning Zionist  actions, note the word ''Zionist'' as opposed to Irsraeli's or Jews.

[danasutton]

Israel stole Palestine by hook and by crook.  The Zionist steal more and more land from Palestine, bulldoze hundreds if Palestinian villages, kill men women and children, all the time claiming that the jews are the victims. 

The true terrorist is Israel.

Stop the genocide of Palestine.

[Ulysses G.]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the rules state that you must supply a link--particularly when you cite specific dates and claim another poster's version is fallacious.

You are wrong and it's not surprising that you did not ask for a link to his fallacious information, which he did not supply. The rules require a link to information that you have copied verbatim. It is up to the poster to "prove" what they say, or not. I have already supplied the IDF link, but someone - was it you - complained about that. Wiki is the only other source that I can find.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

Edited July 21, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[boomerangutang]

Do you know anything about history at all? You have got it all backwards. The Jews were the Indigenous people in the area and they were vastly outnumbered by the Arabs who started the whole conflict. However, they overcame the enormous odds against them and defeated the Arab aggressors over and over again.

I usually agree with U.G. but I have to say the Jews and Arabs and others all have a hodge podge history of occupation of the relatively small bits of real estate called the Middle East. Alliances change, even sometimes within a family within one generation. You can take 100 Israelis and 100 Palestinians and 100 Saudis, stand them in mixed order, wearing same overalls and shaved faces/heads, and not one person could tell which guy belongs to which belief system.
 
 

There is a method to Hamas' madness...
..by provoking Israel, they can then point to the death and destruction that inevitably follows, hoping to get international sympathy and much coveted moolah.
It's the only 'industry' that exists there really.
It's a form of extortion..plain and simple.

It's not unlike N.Korean officialdom, which intentionally creates conflicts in order to receive hand-outs 
 

You are kind of ignoring that Jewish European refugees started it by invading Palestinian lands and confiscating entire villages, within living memory.

Again, you could look at any decade within the past 4,000 years, and there would be bloody conflicts and shifting alliances in dem parts. The larger force and/or those with the stronger armies have always dominated. Same now. The Gaza area was once owned by a Pharaoh (why don't they spell it 'faro?'). You wanna turn back the clock to 850 B.C. and have it be Egyptian? For part of the interim period, it belonged to Christian Crusaders. Perhaps we should just give Gaza to France, because they once lorded over it. For most of the past 5,000 years Gaza had perhaps 3 grass huts, 11 people and 150 goats.

[joepublic]

 

 They started the conflict

 

Stop Lying

[Ulysses G.]

It is rather sad that those who claim they lost 6 million of their own in the last war seem totally oblivious to the fact that in many ways they are behaving in the same style as those they stillm accuse and have continued accusing of geonocide.

Really I don't recall the Jews starting a war with the Germans or even fighting back for that matter - THAT will never happen again. The Palestinians started the conflict in the first place and have been involved in terrorism ever since they lost..The comparison between the two situations is completely ridiculous.    

Edited July 21, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[simple1]

 

It is rather sad that those who claim they lost 6 million of their own in the last war seem totally oblivious to the fact that in many ways they are behaving in the same style as those they stillm accuse and have continued accusing of geonocide.

Really I don't recall the Jew starting a war with the Germans or even fighting back for that matter - THAT will never happen again. The Palestinians started the conflict in the first place and have been involved in terrorism ever sine they lost.   

 

 

During WW11 organised Jewish resistance partisan fighters, at a minimum, in Poland and Russia

Edited July 21, 2014 by simple1

[Jay Sata]

This is crazy.

 

Innocent people are dying and we have numerous posts across several threads discussing history an ancient holy books.

 

U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon called the violence “atrocious".

 

World public opinion in firmly on the side of the poor occupants of Gaza and this conflict will heighten animosity to Israel's

treatment of the Palestinians.

 

We need more economic and trade boycotts.

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

This is crazy.
 
Innocent people are dying and we have numerous posts across several threads discussing history an ancient holy books.

All Hamas has to do is stop firing rockets and Israel will stop trying to find them. That is the solution and it should happen right now.

[Morch]

 

The only peace worth having is a permanent just peace recognized by all sides.

 

All the Arab states have agreed to recognize Israel in return for a return to the 67 borders (with a few land swaps), a fudged deal over Jerusalem, and compensation for Palestinian refugees. 

 

Exchange of ambassadors, trade, tourism and probable membership of EU down the track just like Cyprus 90 miles off the coast...the works.

 

All too easy. The ball has always been in Israel's court.

 

 

The Hamas blatantly rejected both offers, carrying out a mass terror attack on the occasion of the first.

There no sweeping and formal announcement that the so-called Palestinian refugees Right of Return will be traded for

compensation. As far as I know there was also nothing to similar effect with regard to Jews who left their Arab homelands.

 

It was a missed opportunity for sure, though - even if the Palestinians weren't really able to pull it through on their side, and

even if Lebanon could not guarantee any agreement signed.

 

[Ulysses G.]

They started the conflict

 
Stop Lying

Is that so? If I'm "lying" than prove me wrong. The 1929 Hebron Massacre of Jewish families might be a good starting point for you to begin your education, but there were plenty of unprovoked Arab atrocities before that. Edited July 21, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

 

 

Hamas didn't fire rockets (June 28) in the present round of violence until Israel had spent 2 weeks imprisoning 300 Hamas members, destroying Palestinian homes, and loosing air strikes on Gaza on the pretext of looking for 3 kidnapped Israeli teenagers, who they knew were already dead.(June 12)

Why do you insist on continually posting incorrect information, even though you are often caught? Rockets and mortars have been fired from Gaza throughout every single month of 2014 including all of June - starting on June 1. Hamas was shooting rockets at Israeli civilians both before the teenagers were murdered AND afterwards.

 

 

 

The only thing that is wrong is that in June there were 2 rocket attacks before the campaign to "find" the kidnapped teens.

 

The rocket attacks didn't escalate until Israel began its insane campaign to find the kidnapped teens. Why insane? Because they arrested 400 Palestinians (really, 400 suspects?), raided thousands of Palestinian homes and killed 5 in the process of "searching for the teens". Insane because they likely already knew they were dead as they heard the teens get shot on the phone and found the kidnappers car the next day with the blood of the teens in it. Of course this was kept from the media in order to generate more bloodlust among the pro-Israel camp during the search.

 

Israel's attack on Hamas for the kidnapping, which is also crazy because they had no evidence that it was ordered or that the top members even knew about it, is what triggered the huge escalation in rocket attacks. Read it for yourself.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10937514/Israel-hits-Gaza-with-air-strikes-after-bodies-of-kidnapped-teenagers-found.html

 

In May there were 4 rockets and 3 mortars launched. In June, there were 17 attacks.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

 

 

There were only a few rockets, so that's alright then. Scrap those ceasefire agreements from last time.

 

As much as I try, can't see what difference would it made for the search whether the information regarding the kindapped

being murdered released earlier. Israel traded bodies of its dead soldiers in exchange for terrorists, in the past. The three

Israelis, dead or alive, were just as likely to be traded. The arrests were massive, yes, Insane? That's a point of view, not

an objective statement. So is the assertion that the death were kept secret to "generate more bloodlust".

 

Posters who think this is the only, or even main, reason for the current conflagration should probably do some reading

about other issues that drove the Hamas into this situation, most of them to do with inter-Palestinian politics and a serious

economic crisis. Links to a couple of articles on this were posted in many of the relevant topics.
 

[ezzra]

There was never such thing as " Palestinian "  entity, nation or country, EVER, those people that were

in the land of than called Palestine were nomads and migrant workers brought to this land to work,

by  people who built the country, there is no mention in the Quran of Jerusalem even once,

The Belfour proclamation of 1948 gave the Jews and Arabs their own land to live and proper

but the Arabs of than didn't like to share the land with any one and started a war of attrition that led

to the war of liberation in 1956, and since than, there war after war after war, until today..

[Steely Dan]

We see a lot of pictures of rocket and bomb attacks or the results of the attacks in Gaza but I haven't seen any pictures of the attacks or the results of the attacks in Israel from Gaza.

That's because a small hole in an empty field is not newsworthy.

Indeed Iron dome must be particularly irksome to one way moralists.


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