What is Nirvana really?

[rockyysdt]

Conditioned as we are, the word Nirvana conjures up conflicting ideas, beliefs, & views as to its meaning.

 

• There's the common belief held by many Buddhists & non Buddhists alike, that Nirvana is the ultimate heaven. A place where one becomes united with a permanent universal state of being filled with supreme and ultimate bliss.

Very alluring to the ego which is rooted in greed.

The ego desires bliss & immortality, whilst rejecting  pain, suffering, & death.

 

• Another interpretation of Nirvana revolves around its meaning.

Nirvana (Sanskrit), Nibbana (Pali) meaning: Gone out. Extinguished quenching. Putting out the flame.

Freeing oneself from attachment to Greed, Aversion, & Delusion.

Everything is infected & burning by this fuel, which leads to becoming.

Each momentary incidence resulting in an incidence of birth (re birth).

Once bondage from Greed, Aversion, & Delusion is broken there is no longer any fuel to feed the fire, thus the flames are put out.

Through awareness (Sati - present moment recollection) with investigation, enquiry, curiosity, sharpened with practice of Ethical life, Concentration & Insight Meditation, one gains experiential wisdom through observing ones habits, allowing us to see what is really happening (habitualzed perceptions).

Once we see what is happening we can take steps to free ourselves from these.

Our self is strongest when we have strong desire & strong dislike.

Everything we experience involves "Like", "Dislike", "Neutral" in varying degree.

Overcome being rooted in Greed, Aversion, & Delusion by living differently:

 Overcome Greed with Giving, Generosity, Compassion &  Empathy

 Overcome Aversion with  Friendliness, Kindness, Compassion.

Overcome Delusion (ignore, overlook, confusion)  with Profound Understanding, Wisdom, Interest & Awareness.

Our tools are:

• Ethical life
• Concentration.
• Insight Investigation.

 

This second model appears completely free of Ego or I as it paints a picture of living the best a human can aspire to. A state free from Greed, Aversion, & Delusion. A state in which there is no longer any fuel to generate becoming, re birth, self, Ego.

An author went on to say that when one investigates thoughts, feelings, & images with present moment recollection (awareness/mindfulness - the texture of ones life at this point in time) that these are embodied.

He quoted the Buddha as saying: The person who does not have mindfulness of body does not have mindfulness at all.

The author went on to say that the body is often able to tell us more about ourselves than our mind.

He also said that success in our journey/quest was like "returning to the same place and knowing it for the first time".

 

 

• How does this compare to a third model of Nirvana?

A model which does not stop at "living the best a human can aspire to", but extends it to passing over to a state which is permanent & unconditioned. From the relative which is conditioned, & impermanent to an absolute which is permanent, unconditioned and without time. A permanent state of pure awareness. One in which there is existence beyond body/mind/time.

 

 

In terms of being rooted to desire, isn't this the greatest fuel one can offer ones Ego?

 

Is there any amongst us who has completely destroyed Ego and can acknowledge the existence of Pure, Deathless, Timeless, Unconditioned Awareness?

 

Not having reached such heights I am completely open to all possibilities.

 

Edited July 25, 2014 by rockyysdt

[Brucenkhamen]

There aren't 3 models, Wikipaedia has it in a nutshell in it's first paragraph see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(Buddhism)

[rockyysdt]

There aren't 3 models, Wikipaedia has it in a nutshell in it's first paragraph see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(Buddhism)

 

When I write of 3 models, I refer to peoples beliefs, ideas, views.

 

 

The stumbling block in terms of what is written in Wiki's first paragraph revolves around the interpretation of its last section

 

Quote:    "one is released from the cycle of rebirth (samsara) and suffering (dukkha) comes to an end".

 

Is the cycle of rebirth a moment to moment occurrence, resulting in many incidence of ego or becoming, and nothing to do with re birth life to life?

 

Samsara being the result or experience of being rooted in Greed, Aversion & Delusion.

 

Nirvana being free of it, and consequently free of Ego or construct, or that which is not as it really is.

 

 

An example is that how many realms do we travel through in a day?

Living like Gods.

How often am I human in a day?

Buffeting between, good, bad and indifference on a daily basis.

Behaving like an animal.

I can't get enough (hungry ghost).

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2014 by rockyysdt

[DogNo1]

rockyysdt: I like the second interpretation of nirvana that you cited. I often suffer due to my greed and self-indulgence (aversion to inconvenience and discomfort) but I do sometimes enter a state of nirvana. In moments of clarity, I am sometimes able to avoid things which cause my suffering - sometimes not. My life corresponds to the philosophy of life of the Bhagavad Gita - it's a daily struggle to control my thoughts and actions. It's not as simple to do as I once thought. Thanks for your interesting post!

[klauskunkel]

Before I meditate on this I have some questions:

Everything is infected & burning by this fuel, which leads to becoming.

 

...becoming what?

 

 

Each momentary incidence resulting in an incidence of birth (re birth).

...I don't understand this at all, is there a way to simplify the mysticism for my poor mind to grasp?

 

all the rest I understand very well

[arjunadawn]

Before I meditate on this I have some questions:

Everything is infected & burning by this fuel, which leads to becoming.
 

...becoming what?
 

 
Each momentary incidence resulting in an incidence of birth (re birth).

...I don't understand this at all, is there a way to simplify the mysticism for my poor mind to grasp?
 
all the rest I understand very well

Yes, there is a way to simplify all the circuitous labeling and landmarks: silence! In the silence when stills the mind a person may "unbecome." I'd hardly wish to become anything further; that's the trouble. From "Be still and know I AM" to the Eastern paths to find stillness, you must undress the mind. Don't worry about the goal- it can't help you today. Don't worry about nirvana- at best it'll miss direct you and at worst corrupt your motivation. Concentrate on only one thing and other things will become apparent to YOU- just watch your mind, it's thoughts, it's emotions, it's protests, and you'll find the act of witnessing subordinates the mind. And may come the silence. Mysticism is your unique, intimate, romantic love affair with Self... Life... Creation... And just bathing in in palpable romance.

It's no liability to have difficulty grasping mystical concepts. It was noted long ago we've varied dispositions in our approach to reaching for lucidity. Thus the pre Buddhist yoga schools of Gnani, raja, Bhakti, karma (rational, mystical, Love/devotion, work). Different human natures will explore the interior differently so don't be bothered by one particular man's descriptions. You must map this terrain yourself through introspection. Knowing what others "report" nibbana looks like will not aid you now. Edited July 26, 2014 by arjunadawn

[limow]

People often tend to think of life in such lofty, philosophical terms. I think our only goal in life is to strive for inner peace and happiness, like many of the Thai's do (not necessarily for up in the clouds states like "nirvana"), and I don't think there's anything, ever, in any situation or time that isn't ultimately useful for that one purpose, of shifting us closer to realizing this one goal for ourselves :-)

 

I like this quote - 'You have taught what you are, but have not let what you are teach you'

[camerata]

Off-topic posts have been deleted. We are discussing the original Buddhist concept of Nirvana, not personal ideas of bliss.

[limow]

Off-topic posts have been deleted. We are discussing the original Buddhist concept of Nirvana, not personal ideas of bliss.

Quite simple, remove the "I think" from my post and compare Wikipedia's definition of nirvana to my own as being our "only goal", a snippet from Wiki as follows:

The Dalai Lama states: "The ultimate aspiration of a practicing Buddhist is the attainment of nirvana. 

 

Pema Chodron (best I include this: Buddhist nun) defines moving towards such states as letting go of 'Shenpa', which is our attachment to this need to be right or this conditioned craving to follow fear or whatever restricts us from absolute inner peace. 

[garyinhuahin]

Before I meditate on this I have some questions:

Everything is infected & burning by this fuel, which leads to becoming.

 

...becoming what?

 

 

Each momentary incidence resulting in an incidence of birth (re birth).

...I don't understand this at all, is there a way to simplify the mysticism for my poor mind to grasp?

 

all the rest I understand very well

 

Buddhist monastics and lay folk discuss all these matter ad infinitum. They don't agree. I think the Buddha himself would have said something like "If you're talking and thinking about it, you're not getting it."

 

For myself, I've been impressed by the interpretation of P. Buddhadasa, which I think is paralled by these particular quotes (maybe from his books?). Note that most Thai Buddhists deeply respect Buddhadasa's teaching but many respectfully disagree with or choose not to understand what he said and might well consider the quotes above to be nonsensical. He's a rather a radical figure.

 

I wouldn't presume to expound, but there are good resources for English speakers. The original Suan Mokkh (garden of liberation) monastery founded by Buddhadasa is at Chaiya in Surat Thani province. They have an international retreat center that conducts 10-day programs in English starting first of every month which include a very detailed explanation. http://www.suanmokkh-idh.org/

 

In Bangkok, the is the Buddhadas Indapanno Archive (BIA, commonly called 'Suan Mokkh Bangkok' next to a pond at the far end of Chatuchak/Railway Park. it's a public center (with a huge bookstore) and often host talks by Western monks who were taught by Buddhadasa himself. Lovely place to visit also, very serene and full of lovely art. https://www.facebook.com/suanmokkhbangkok

 

Hope this helps you

 

[pacceka]

In truth, there are no words beautiful enough to describe nirvana. Neither from the Buddhist perspective, or the Christian name, the kingdom of heaven.

However, through the practice of Vipassana you can discover for yourself. Is is not easy, and not hard. Learn to live now, and insight will come.

[limow]

In truth, there are no words beautiful enough to describe nirvana. Neither from the Buddhist perspective, or the Christian name, the kingdom of heaven.

However, through the practice of Vipassana you can discover for yourself. Is is not easy, and not hard. Learn to live now, and insight will come.

If you hadn't referenced 'Vipassana', everything else you wrote could be chalked up to opinion. However, yes, I would think you're right on topic - the concept of Nirvana, Buddhism as a whole, is broader than life itself - with or without quoting or finding written reference, speaking on the concept of peace and transformation will have always been mentioned by some Buddhist at some stage. It's all relevant. Pema Chodron (ordained Buddhist nun) says ' ..everything in life happens for you, not to you ..'. 

[dotpoom]

Once heard it said....."If you want to be in Heaven after you pass on....Bring it with you"

 

                                                                Think about it.

Edited July 26, 2014 by dotpoom

[klauskunkel]

 

Before I meditate on this I have some questions:

Everything is infected & burning by this fuel, which leads to becoming.
 

...becoming what?
 

 
Each momentary incidence resulting in an incidence of birth (re birth).

...I don't understand this at all, is there a way to simplify the mysticism for my poor mind to grasp?
 
all the rest I understand very well

Yes, there is a way to simplify all the circuitous labeling and landmarks: silence! In the silence when stills the mind a person may "unbecome." I'd hardly wish to become anything further; that's the trouble. From "Be still and know I AM" to the Eastern paths to find stillness, you must undress the mind. Don't worry about the goal- it can't help you today. Don't worry about nirvana- at best it'll miss direct you and at worst corrupt your motivation. Concentrate on only one thing and other things will become apparent to YOU- just watch your mind, it's thoughts, it's emotions, it's protests, and you'll find the act of witnessing subordinates the mind. And may come the silence. Mysticism is your unique, intimate, romantic love affair with Self... Life... Creation... And just bathing in in palpable romance.

It's no liability to have difficulty grasping mystical concepts. It was noted long ago we've varied dispositions in our approach to reaching for lucidity. Thus the pre Buddhist yoga schools of Gnani, raja, Bhakti, karma (rational, mystical, Love/devotion, work). Different human natures will explore the interior differently so don't be bothered by one particular man's descriptions. You must map this terrain yourself through introspection. Knowing what others "report" nibbana looks like will not aid you now.

 

I appreciate your effort...I have now graduated from not understanding to confused, which is as it should be, for I have a lot of experience with confusion (not to be confused with Confucius  ). I will now concentrate on solely my confusion which should make something else happening, or maybe not I think...Anyways, again much appreciated.

[connda]

Simple:  It's the direct experience of non-dualist reality. 

How do you get there?  Sila, Samadhi, Pana.

Sila:

Maintaining a moral lifestyle, i.e., follow the 5 precepts.
Samadhi:

Meditation. My own teacher stressed concentration (Samatha) on the breath (Anapana Sati) and moment to moment awareness all of the time (Vipassana) outside of formal meditation.

Pana:
The wisdom gained through samadhi that leads to breaking through the illusion of dualist reality.

Edited July 26, 2014 by connda

[amse]

While meditating with your eyes closed and in a dark quiet room, see the darkness in front of you, concentrate on this darkness and after several times, you will begin to see swirles of gray clouds, keep doing this mystical practical application until you begin to see shapes, then moving shapes until you eventually after many years of practice, your able to enter the Glorious Unknown!

[KhnomKhnom]

 

There aren't 3 models, Wikipaedia has it in a nutshell in it's first paragraph see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_(Buddhism)

 

When I write of 3 models, I refer to peoples beliefs, ideas, views.

 

 

The stumbling block in terms of what is written in Wiki's first paragraph revolves around the interpretation of its last section

 

Quote:    "one is released from the cycle of rebirth (samsara) and suffering (dukkha) comes to an end".

 

Is the cycle of rebirth a moment to moment occurrence, resulting in many incidence of ego or becoming, and nothing to do with re birth life to life?

 

Samsara being the result or experience of being rooted in Greed, Aversion & Delusion.

 

Nirvana being free of it, and consequently free of Ego or construct, or that which is not as it really is.

 

 

An example is that how many realms do we travel through in a day?

Living like Gods.

How often am I human in a day?

Buffeting between, good, bad and indifference on a daily basis.

Behaving like an animal.

I can't get enough (hungry ghost).

 

 

 

 

"Nirvana" is so often misconstrued by people with a passing interest in Buddhism.  Its best definition is the dissolving of the self into non being and thus the self or ego disappears and there is nothing there to sense what some people want to have and that is bliss. Nirvana is nothingness.  It is definitely not a Christian heaven.

 

Nirvana can not be entered during a living state;  the body must die.  Other purities need to be present, but the body and self gotta go.

 

Nirvana should never be pursued as a goal.  The valid life goal is to reduce the ego's striving, get control of the wild horses of random thoughts, and live in harmony with all sentient beings.  Nirvana comes;  it can not be grasped (grasping actually push it further away).

[arjunadawn]

Simple:  It's the direct experience of non-dualist reality. 

How do you get there?  Sila, Samadhi, Pana.

Sila:
Maintaining a moral lifestyle, i.e., follow the 5 precepts.
Samadhi:
Meditation. My own teacher stressed concentration (Samatha) on the breath (Anapana Sati) and moment to moment awareness all of the time (Vipassana) outside of formal meditation.
Pana:
The wisdom gained through samadhi that leads to breaking through the illusion of dualist reality.

Actually, I think you are 100% correct. This is the best answer yet: - "non dual reality"

I think it's fair that this succinctly addresses the OP question, "What is nirvana?" Thank you.

[KhnomKhnom]

rockyysdt: I like the second interpretation of nirvana that you cited. I often suffer due to my greed and self-indulgence (aversion to inconvenience and discomfort) but I do sometimes enter a state of nirvana. In moments of clarity, I am sometimes able to avoid things which cause my suffering - sometimes not. My life corresponds to the philosophy of life of the Bhagavad Gita - it's a daily struggle to control my thoughts and actions. It's not as simple to do as I once thought. Thanks for your interesting post!

Nope, the body has to die for any possible passage into nirvana.  I am glad you have moments of peace, however.

[KhnomKhnom]

Before I meditate on this I have some questions:

Everything is infected & burning by this fuel, which leads to becoming.

 

...becoming what?

 

 

Each momentary incidence resulting in an incidence of birth (re birth).

...I don't understand this at all, is there a way to simplify the mysticism for my poor mind to grasp?

 

all the rest I understand very well

No wonder it is misleading;  it is actually misleading.  There is no Buddhism I have ever heard of that asserts re birth occurs DURING one life time.

[KhnomKhnom]

Another note......

YOU can not experience nirvana because nirvana is "a state of non being."  The idea is that if YOU are there, you missed nirvana to this point in your path. 

[myluckythai]

eeeeeuh. think i'll pass

[rockyysdt]

Before I meditate on this I have some questions:

Everything is infected & burning by this fuel, which leads to becoming.

 

...becoming what?

 

 

Each momentary incidence resulting in an incidence of birth (re birth).

...I don't understand this at all, is there a way to simplify the mysticism for my poor mind to grasp?

 

all the rest I understand very well

 

Becoming rooted in Ignorance is part of a 12 stage process which fuels the Ego.

 

In the symbolic representation of Samsara (or cyclic existence), the Bhavacakra (or Wheel of Life), there are the 12 Nidanas.

 

These are a chain of Cause & Effect which, the Buddha taught, fuel our Ego or I.

 

It's said that our experience of consciousness is not due to the existence of a soul/spirit/entity/being inside us, but are a series of causes and effects which result an incidence of Ego, I, Me (Becoming).

 

The fuel for this chain of cause & effect are:

 

Greed (represented by a Cock).

Hatred & Aversion (represented by a Snake).

Ignorance (represented by a Pig).

 

 

Roughly it goes.

1. Ignorance

2. Action

3. Consciousness

4. Name and form

5. Sources

6. Contact

7. Feeling

8. Craving

9. Grasping

10. Becoming

11. Rebirth

12. Old age and death

 

Becoming: Through grasping one acts with body, speech and mind, and creates the kharma which shapes one’s next existence.

 

Re Birth: Through becoming, one is reborn.

 

This chain of causes & effects is continually occurring many times in a second, each cycle leading to Becoming/Re Birth/Death, just as do frames in a moving motion picture reel, giving the illusion of consciousness.

 

The second Nirvana model ends here.

Each occurrence of Becoming/Re Birth/Death is moment to moment.

 

The last Nirvana model extends Becoming/Re Birth/Death beyond moment to moment and into Life to Life (a kind of reincarnation not involving a soul which does not exist).

 

Does this help you understand becoming & momentary incidence of birth/re birth?

 

 

Edited July 26, 2014 by rockyysdt

[arjunadawn]

Before I meditate on this I have some questions:

Everything is infected & burning by this fuel, which leads to becoming.
 

...becoming what?
 

 
Each momentary incidence resulting in an incidence of birth (re birth).

...I don't understand this at all, is there a way to simplify the mysticism for my poor mind to grasp?
 
all the rest I understand very well

No wonder it is misleading;  it is actually misleading.  There is no Buddhism I have ever heard of that asserts re birth occurs DURING one life time.

I agree this is nonsense and misleading. No wonder the fella was confused. But I don't agree with your point regarding nirvana and death.

Nirvana is not a way station. It's an approximate stage, if you will, that may herald further access to surrendering into "10,000 things" electing to become a bodhisattva, or be a final place for many. Nothing changes. You still use the bathroom, still may have love, touch, joy, even pain. You are alive. It's just that you've broken through to, hopefully, a repeatable experience that once conditioned will hopefully remain a place of mental residence. Language fails yet disparate sojourners describe effectively the same experiences, albeit occasionally imbued by their particular sect or background. This is nirvana, perhaps. It's differentiated from other "states."

By virtue of the countless peoples who have practiced the techniques, applied the discipline, and reported their findings throughout their lives, we have learned distinctive, recurring landmarks that circumscribe the interior world. Associating nirvana with death is a new age, or late, appellation of its meaning. Generally, and specifically, it does not connote death. Insofar as nirvana was reported by living beings, and few credible reports from after death exist, it further supports the historical record that nirvana was a stage (and not the last) en route to the Prize- which would then employ your point of after death.

[klauskunkel]

 

Before I meditate on this I have some questions:

Everything is infected & burning by this fuel, which leads to becoming.

 

...becoming what?

 

 

Each momentary incidence resulting in an incidence of birth (re birth).

...I don't understand this at all, is there a way to simplify the mysticism for my poor mind to grasp?

 

all the rest I understand very well

 

Becoming rooted in Ignorance is part of a 12 stage process which fuels the Ego.

 

In the symbolic representation of Samsara (or cyclic existence), the Bhavacakra (or Wheel of Life), there are the 12 Nidanas.

 

These are a chain of Cause & Effect which, the Buddha taught, fuel our Ego or I.

 

It's said that our experience of consciousness is not due to the existence of a soul/spirit/entity/being inside us, but are a series of causes and effects which result an incidence of Ego, I, Me (Becoming).

 

The fuel for this chain of cause & effect are:

 

Greed (represented by a Cock).

Hatred & Aversion (represented by a Snake).

Ignorance (represented by a Pig).

 

 

Roughly it goes.

1. Ignorance

2. Action

3. Consciousness

4. Name and form

5. Sources

6. Contact

7. Feeling

8. Craving

9. Grasping

10. Becoming

11. Rebirth

12. Old age and death

 

Becoming: Through grasping one acts with body, speech and mind, and creates the kharma which shapes one’s next existence.

 

Re Birth: Through becoming, one is reborn.

 

This chain of causes & effects is continually occurring many times in a second, each cycle leading to Becoming/Re Birth/Death, just as do frames in a moving motion picture reel, giving the illusion of consciousness.

 

My second Nirvana model ends here.

Each occurrence of Becoming/Re Birth/Death is moment to moment.

 

The last Nirvana model extends Becoming/Re Birth/Death beyond moment to moment and into Life to Life (a kind of reincarnation not involving a soul which does not exist).

 

Does this help you understand becoming & momentary incidence of birth/re birth?

 

 

 

Thanks for the explanation. Your OP presupposed knowledge of these concepts, which I didn't have. Hence my confusion thru ignorance.

[Shaunduhpostman]

As a "Buddhist" practitioner for the last five years or so, albeit as a distracted, busy person who tries to read a bit, mediatate every day a bit, attend teachings and retreats to the extent that I can, I'll chip in my .02 based on what I've gathered. I apologize in advance for any sanctimonious know-it-all jabbering on and on, but I rarely get a chance to answer such interesting questions, so thanks for the opportunity, I appreciate it.

 

For starters, any term you are going to use, including Buddhist terms to try and name, point out or discuss any deeper truths,  are going to be relative and have kind of flexible meaning depending on who/when/why/etc, as even non-Buddhist post-modernism seems to be mostly on about. So, for some, Nirvana may be some kind of blissful heaven for others it is extinction of attachment, aversion, and ignorance, for others it doesn't matter, even they are Buddhists and it is just a sound: "Nirvana." For Curt Cobain it was his rock band. (Sorry couldn't resist that one). It really would kill any Nirvana we attain by sitting there and saying, "Aha! THIS is it!" Meditation teaches us this labelling and conceptualizing is actually a lot to do with our whole problem: being a self who compulsively conceptualizes and constructs self and other, a process which is the whole cause of the samsaric condition we find ourselves in, ie being a self eternally tortured by attachment, ignorance and aversion. so Nirvana or any terms or even whole complete programs of Buddhist teaching are as much a stumbling block for us as anything else and can undo all of our efforts to attain any level of realization as much as they can pre-clude any possibility for such insofar as we cling to remaining in an ego/dualistic state refering to Nirvana or egoless, non-dual, non-conceptual awareness.

 

But, I think the main point is that such terms are, in most Buddhist schools that I have partaken of, simply a convenience and rough approximation. What anyone goes through and/or discovers in any kind of "Buddhist" or quasi-Buddhist process to try and discover some deeper truth or liberate self and others or for whatever other motivation is going to just be what it is or what it is not and that is the whole point. Terms are nice when we want to have a chat or even to help point someone in the direction, but in the end that's all they are: terms and transitory conveniences at best or even temporary vehicles to get to the other side, even better, but they are not the other side, generally speaking. The other side, insofar as it does not partake of the very notion of being the other side just is what it is and even something as vague as all that would be probably pinning things down a bit much as well.

 

Personally, I have not found the term Nirvana is  useful to me. If there is any conceptualized goal that I have it is that I should someday more or less permanently succeed at foiling the grip that my own ego has on my entire experience ie, how this sense of being a self seems to constantly be the starting point for everything, how I am hopelessly stuck in behaving as tho I actually truly existed. But I know such goals or agendas are yet another self-made trap and it is more important to just keep one's promises and keep practicing and keep noticing what is happening in one's experience and accept and be aware and let it go and be ready to embrace whatever else should arise without getting into labelling it and thinking this is this and that is that.

 

It is not that difficult to learn to meditate and loosen the old ego and free things up a bit, especially when one is sitting on the cushion and dedicating one's full energies to paying attention. It is like some of the previous posts mentioned, once you are just quiet many problems take leave. but once we've gotten up to go and take care of business or what have you, you're off and running wildly into the sunset towards where we were before mostly, tho with perhaps a least a bit of conditioning from I suppose we could say the Nirvana flip side of the Samsara coin and that analogy of being two sides of a coin, bird of a feather etc., is often made by Buddhist teachers of various stripes.

 

Which reminds me, me and my wife, who is a fairly serious Thai Buddhist practitioner, are always referring to Samsara as opposed to Nirvana. I feel I know Samsara a little bit, but not Nirvana so that ends up being the more useful term. My wife seems to use neepan, which I am pretty sure is the Thai term for nirvana, to mean a kind of transitory bliss or in some way deeply positive experience, usually from meditation. Tho she seems to also be aware of a more sutra correct definition, but I think it just shows you that it is used rather loosely and flexibly and there isn't really a problem anyone has with it used in that way, or that is my impression so far anyway.

[MILT]

Check out Pantanjali Yoga sutras.

 

The Yoga tradition is much older, there are references in the Mahābhārata, and the Gitā identifies three kinds of yoga. The Yoga Sūtras codifies the royal or best (rāja) yoga practices, presenting these as an eight-limbed system (ashtānga). The philosophic tradition is related to the Sankhya school. The focus is on the mind; the second sutra defines Yoga - it is the cessation of all mental fluctuations, all wandering thoughts cease and the mind is focused on a single thought.

[From Wikipedia]

[JohnDodd]

For all you Nirvana seekers forget the Buddha and read or listen to Jiddu Krishnamurti.

[BradinAsia]

As a "Buddhist" practitioner for the last five years or so, albeit as a distracted, busy person who tries to read a bit, mediatate every day a bit, attend teachings and retreats to the extent that I can, I'll chip in my .02 based on what I've gathered. I apologize in advance for any sanctimonious know-it-all jabbering on and on, but I rarely get a chance to answer such interesting questions, so thanks for the opportunity, I appreciate it.

 

For starters, any term you are going to use, including Buddhist terms to try and name, point out or discuss any deeper truths,  are going to be relative and have kind of flexible meaning depending on who/when/why/etc, as even non-Buddhist post-modernism seems to be mostly on about. So, for some, Nirvana may be some kind of blissful heaven for others it is extinction of attachment, aversion, and ignorance, for others it doesn't matter, even they are Buddhists and it is just a sound: "Nirvana." For Curt Cobain it was his rock band. (Sorry couldn't resist that one). It really would kill any Nirvana we attain by sitting there and saying, "Aha! THIS is it!" Meditation teaches us this labelling and conceptualizing is actually a lot to do with our whole problem: being a self who compulsively conceptualizes and constructs self and other, a process which is the whole cause of the samsaric condition we find ourselves in, ie being a self eternally tortured by attachment, ignorance and aversion. so Nirvana or any terms or even whole complete programs of Buddhist teaching are as much a stumbling block for us as anything else and can undo all of our efforts to attain any level of realization as much as they can pre-clude any possibility for such insofar as we cling to remaining in an ego/dualistic state refering to Nirvana or egoless, non-dual, non-conceptual awareness.

 

But, I think the main point is that such terms are, in most Buddhist schools that I have partaken of, simply a convenience and rough approximation. What anyone goes through and/or discovers in any kind of "Buddhist" or quasi-Buddhist process to try and discover some deeper truth or liberate self and others or for whatever other motivation is going to just be what it is or what it is not and that is the whole point. Terms are nice when we want to have a chat or even to help point someone in the direction, but in the end that's all they are: terms and transitory conveniences at best or even temporary vehicles to get to the other side, even better, but they are not the other side, generally speaking. The other side, insofar as it does not partake of the very notion of being the other side just is what it is and even something as vague as all that would be probably pinning things down a bit much as well.

 

Personally, I have not found the term Nirvana is  useful to me. If there is any conceptualized goal that I have it is that I should someday more or less permanently succeed at foiling the grip that my own ego has on my entire experience ie, how this sense of being a self seems to constantly be the starting point for everything, how I am hopelessly stuck in behaving as tho I actually truly existed. But I know such goals or agendas are yet another self-made trap and it is more important to just keep one's promises and keep practicing and keep noticing what is happening in one's experience and accept and be aware and let it go and be ready to embrace whatever else should arise without getting into labelling it and thinking this is this and that is that.

 

It is not that difficult to learn to meditate and loosen the old ego and free things up a bit, especially when one is sitting on the cushion and dedicating one's full energies to paying attention. It is like some of the previous posts mentioned, once you are just quiet many problems take leave. but once we've gotten up to go and take care of business or what have you, you're off and running wildly into the sunset towards where we were before mostly, tho with perhaps a least a bit of conditioning from I suppose we could say the Nirvana flip side of the Samsara coin and that analogy of being two sides of a coin, bird of a feather etc., is often made by Buddhist teachers of various stripes.

 

Which reminds me, me and my wife, who is a fairly serious Thai Buddhist practitioner, are always referring to Samsara as opposed to Nirvana. I feel I know Samsara a little bit, but not Nirvana so that ends up being the more useful term. My wife seems to use neepan, which I am pretty sure is the Thai term for nirvana, to mean a kind of transitory bliss or in some way deeply positive experience, usually from meditation. Tho she seems to also be aware of a more sutra correct definition, but I think it just shows you that it is used rather loosely and flexibly and there isn't really a problem anyone has with it used in that way, or that is my impression so far anyway.

 

Since the early 1960s, I've been studying Buddhism off and on (now and then). 

 

It is fascinating for me even now, but I doubt I could ever explain to anyone exactly what is nirvana. I could repeat a lot of popular quotes such as escaping "samsara"

-- but for most folks that will likely not suffice as a explanation.

 

I spent a few years reading everything I could find on early Chinese Zen masters, and (then later) Japanese Zen masters. Up to the 1940's Zen was very big in Japan.

And what did I learn from all this? Frankly, I learned a little about Zen meditation and a little about the Japanese Zen masters, but not much on how to achieve nirvana.

I did learn that achieving nirvana is not an education process. If it was, universities (or Buddhist schools) could make a lot of money offering courses leading to nirvana. 

 

The best explanation I can offer is to simply relate how some folks have achieved nirvana through meditation (Note: This is a simplified explanation. For more details

refer to some of the excellent books available on the teachings of the Japanese Zen masters):

 

(1) Meditate while focusing your mind on that area of the lower abdomen just below the navel. 

(2) Sit cross-legged and erect, learn to relax while sitting erect.

(3) Relax and breathe deeply. Then focus on your breathing to empty your mind of all extraneous thoughts.

(4) See the universe (Cosmos) as one, a single unit, inseparable. Stars, planets, cosmic dust and you -- all one. All energy and matter of the Cosmos is one, a single unit.

(5) In reality there is no you, no Cosmos. All is illusion. It's nothing.

(6) Focus on "nothing." There is no "nothing." There is no cosmos, no you -- because it is all one. Don't try to understand it. Just know it. Accept it. 

 

At some point when least expected, zap!  The realization of the oneness of everything -- you are one with the Cosmos. That is the essence of the ultimate nirvana. 

 

In Japanese it is called anokutara sanmyaku sanboudai, which comes from the Sanskrit anuttara-samyak-sambodhi. Meaning "The ultimate level of enlightenment."

 

It is not an education process. It is not achieved through gradual understanding or reasoning of the mind. It is what it is. It is everything. It is "nothing."

 

In Japan, when a novice would ask a Japanese Zen master "What is the Buddha?" The Zen master would sometimes answer that the Buddha is a cow patty (feces).

This shocked and confused a lot of people. But the idea is that ALL matter, all living things and all energy in the Cosmos are one. Therefore the Buddha (and all other

beings) are inseparable from everything else in the Cosmo, including a cow patty. 

Edited July 26, 2014 by BradinAsia

[DogNo1]

I have a book by Bhuddasa, or maybe it's Ajahn Cha, that describes rebirth just as rockyysdt does in his second long post. It's understandable that rebirth is often misunderstood to be a kind of reincarnation. I've read in depth about the history of Buddhism in Vietnam and discovered that during the Nguyen Dynasty, it was decided to establish Pure Land Buddhism as the religion of the land to reconcile the various syncretic versions of Buddhism vying for dominance. It establishes rebirth as a kind of reincarnation after one's life into a higher or lower being than you were depending on the merit of the life that you lived. That seems to jibe with the desire of many Thai Buddhists to make merit. Pure Land also determined that the highest form of meditation is simply believing in the Buddha which seems similar, as someone mentioned, to the Hindu belief that Raja Yoga is the highest form of yoga. I wrote a lengthy paper some years ago about the Golden Age of Buddhism in Vietnam and would be happy to attach it if someone wants to read it and check the references.