'Lost everything -info ?'

[AYJAYDEE]

I doubt you will ever get to the bottom of what really happened with your friend

Yes, I agree.

The strange thing is, I don't think I want to know what really happened, I'm pretty much convinced that something did happen, and my friend was 'persuaded' to part with his assets, and it was because of something the Thai partner did.

The details are pretty irrelevant, the bottom line is, the money's gone, so what's the point of looking for the will, I felt under immense pressure to find the will as I knew the medication cost were high, and I felt the Thai partner's life was in my hands, so if it's the Thai partner's fault the money's gone, then there's nothing left to feel guilty about.

I wish it was that easy though.

why isnt it that easy?

[Beetlejuice]

if the thai partner is the beneficiary, why do you care?

As I said earlier, my friend was the true kind, whenever I got into some kind of trouble (way too often), he was there for me, but he was the type who never needed help, this was my first chance to do something for him, and I believed he wanted his assets to go to the Thai partner.

A story is unfolding that throws a different light on many things, but I had no idea of this till this week.

Here is some useful advice to help ensure that after death there will be no problems regarding assets and beneficiaries:

Three of my closest ex-pat friends up here in Chiang Mai including myself have typed and personally signed on paper plus stored on memory sticks, details regarding our pensions, insurance policies, bank accounts and everything we own both in Thailand and abroad that are kept in strong boxes at our banks to be opened after our deaths. We have also created duplicate copies of this paperwork and made wills that are are held with a law firm that one of my sons works for, so when any of us die there can be no disputes as everything is written in plain black and white. .All that is required to making a will is to download a standard last will and testament document online, there are thousands of websites available that provide this service for free, then complete the will and pay a small fee to a lawyer for it`s safe keeping and keep a duplicate in a strong box at your bank as a backup just in case. Remember that one can only leave Thailand related assets in a will that they are legally entitled to own in Thailand. Each us have agreed to inform the lawyer if any of us die.

This may appear like a lot of work and effort , but it`s not. All can be completed within a few days and very easy to do.

I suggest those of you who are living in Thailand for the long term or intend being here for the remainder of your lives, especially those with partners or families consider doing the same to avoid being in a similar situation as the OP`s friend and to ensure that your last testament wishes will go to the right beneficiaries of your choice without complications.

[benalibina]

I doubt you will ever get to the bottom of what really happened with your friend

Yes, I agree.

The strange thing is, I don't think I want to know what really happened, I'm pretty much convinced that something did happen, and my friend was 'persuaded' to part with his assets, and it was because of something the Thai partner did.

The details are pretty irrelevant, the bottom line is, the money's gone, so what's the point of looking for the will, I felt under immense pressure to find the will as I knew the medication cost were high, and I felt the Thai partner's life was in my hands, so if it's the Thai partner's fault the money's gone, then there's nothing left to feel guilty about.

I wish it was that easy though.

why isnt it that easy?

Read OP's posts on this topic.

[AYJAYDEE]

I doubt you will ever get to the bottom of what really happened with your friend

Yes, I agree.

The strange thing is, I don't think I want to know what really happened, I'm pretty much convinced that something did happen, and my friend was 'persuaded' to part with his assets, and it was because of something the Thai partner did.

The details are pretty irrelevant, the bottom line is, the money's gone, so what's the point of looking for the will, I felt under immense pressure to find the will as I knew the medication cost were high, and I felt the Thai partner's life was in my hands, so if it's the Thai partner's fault the money's gone, then there's nothing left to feel guilty about.

I wish it was that easy though.

why isnt it that easy?

Read OP's posts on this topic.

I did and I cant see why it isnt easy. do you? feel free to offer an opinion

[steven ber]

Firstly, does the OP have any knowledge if there is an executor of the said will or whether the deceased prior made one of those DIY wills, the type that some people keep under their mattresses or hidden in a shoe box somewhere or even if he made a will at all?

If most of the deceased assets were in the UK and valued at over £5000 then eventually if nothing is being disputed or contested in the said will, the will and the death certificate stating cause of death must be submitted to the probate registry. If it was one of those DIY wills, then it is possible that all the deceased assets and liquid assets may have mysteriously vanished and if any will did exist, has been conveniently mislaid, probably never to be seen again. I believe by law if a UK citizen dies in Thailand then the death must be reported to the British embassy or if the guy died in Chiang Mai, to the British consulate in Chiang Mai so that the death is registered with the births, marriages and deaths registry in the UK. Especially if the guy had a pension or insurance policy that could be passed on to a nominated partner.

If or when the will has been submitted to the UK probate registry, then the OP can order a full copy of the will and death certificate for a fee of £10. If the will has not been submitted to probate, than the executor or a trustee holding the original will has no legal obligations to submit a copy to anyone, including beneficiaries left in the will or friends and relatives of the deceased except to the police if the deceased was believed to have died in suspicious circumstances. Also the banks or any other establishments involved with the deceased personal affairs will not grant access or give information of any of the deceased personal details to the OP or anyone else. As far as I can see, the line of investigation the OP is pursuing in trying to discover the whereabouts of a will or details of what is mentioned in the will, including what happened to the assets in bank accounts and other details, he is going to be unsuccessful.

My advice is this: make an inquiry with the British consulate in Chiang Mai and ask if they can confirm the death was registered and also what was the actual cause of death. The next stage is to check with the UK probate registry to inquire if the will has been registered with probate yet, but at this early stage I doubt it would have been. And this is about all the OP can do.

Regarding the AIDs claim by the deceased partner, I would consider that him being on the last stages as extremely suspect and would insist that the Thai partner produce a doctor`s confirmation that he is in the last stages of having full blown AIDs. It appears that the Thai partner is desperate to obtain the original up to date will otherwise all the deceased assets will automatically become as by law the property of the next of kin, which in this case are the nieces in New Zealand as the OP has mentioned, because in Thailand there is no such thing as a common law partner and unless the deceased and his so-called Thai partner were officially married, than the partner has no claims on the deceased estate without gaining access to the original will, providing he is a beneficiary of course. So it appears the partner is pushing for gaining the whereabouts of the said will and it`s contents for obvious reasons.

I am also guessing that there is more to this case than the OP is mentioning. Perhaps the OP believes he maybe a beneficiary in the will, possibly some serious problems within the Thai partner`s family, parents or siblings where they required a lot of money for something's, maybe serious problems with the law and they are a dubious lot and the deceased has possibly been manipulated into voluntary giving his funds or by deception as he was old and vulnerable. It`s the same old story and I have witnessed this countless times during my many years in Thailand.

If I were the OP I would follow one of the golden rules for those living in Thailand, even if the OP is not living in Thailand and that is; keep a low profile and don`t become involved. That lifestyle was the deceased choice and considering that the deceased did not give the OP full details of his personal affairs, close friend or not, then it is best to drop the whole thing and let nature take it`s course.

Whatever further actions the OP decides to take, he does so at his own risk and discretion and of course at his own expense that will probably lead to nowhere.

My friend has had a will for many years.and on his last visit to England he went to see his solicitor in London to make changes to the will (more on this later), I used to hold a copy of his will and all his important documents, but one of my ex girlfriends destroyed it all (I said in an earlier thread that it was a fire because I didn't want to explain), so my friend was reluctant to leave the really important stuff with me, as I always seem to find crazy women (or turn them crazy), so when I couldn't find these documents in Thailand, I assumed he kept them with his will at the solicitors office, but as I said earlier, the things that seemed to happen regarding the assets have me wondering if there's a different reason I didn't find anything in Thailand.

The death was reported to the consulate office in Chiang Mai (cause of death was respiratory failure), they closed his Thai bank accounts and contacted the UK to try to find relatives and me (my details were on his passport, but it was 10 years old and had out of date details on it), they couldn't find me or any family.

About a month ago I contacted the foreign & Commonwealth office (or whatever it's called these days) to ask them what they do when informed of a British citizen dying overseas (virtually nothing), I got chatting to them and an astonishing fact emerged, even when they're informed of such a death, it's not registered in the UK, and they advised me to register the death as that would make his death visible to many people (by the lists the registered death would appear on), of coarse, I need an original translated copy of the death certificate with the official stamp on it, and they refused to give me the official stamp in Chiang Mai as I'm not family, and refused to give the Thai partner the same as he wasn't married to my friend, so no official translated death certificate.

I've been trying to find the will for 3 months, but to be honest, I've never cared if I see the will or not, after I made up my mind the solicitor must be holding the will, all I wanted was for the solicitor to be aware that my friend had died, nobody knows the name of the solicitor, and the solicitor doesn't know of the death (up to 1 month ago, nobody other than me had tried to get a copy of the death certificate).

The Thai partner is living very well considering he's HIV stage 3, the medication is doing a great job (I've got a list of the medication he takes taken from the boxes of medication in his house), now I've no experience of HIV, but my friend did have, one of his close friends died of Aids and my friend had looked after him for a while, it would have been very difficult to fool my friend, and would have needed to include the doctor, and the chemist who give the tablets for the money, and then the Thai partner would have needed to take the tablets every day, and they'd need to be in the correct boxes as my friend would have been keeping up to date with news on HIV medication, for example, when Thailand started producing their own versions a few years ago, much to the horror of the original manufacturers.

From my side, there isn't more than I'm letting on, I wish I could say the same from the Thai partner's side.

Another strange thing to emerge this week, after learning about my friend's admission to John that he'd lost all his assets, I spoke to my Mrs. to see if she remembered anything my friend had said, and if there were any clues to his real financial position, and she told of a conversation she had that she promised (my friend) she wouldn't repeat.

My friend stayed with us for half of his 2-week stay, but as we live in the country, he then moved to another friend's house in town, so he could visit people and places, a couple of days after he left us, he telephoned my Mrs. and asked her to come to see him as he wanted to talk to her (I was working in London that day), she drove down and he told her he was going to London to see his solicitor to change his will (I already knew from a different friend that he'd been and changed his will), she asked why he was telling her this, he said that he was leaving me something in his will, and asked what our monthly outgoings were, she said about £1200, he said he wasn't leaving me a lot, but it would be enough for us to take a year off work.

Ordinarily, it would be a shock to find he was leaving me some money, there's some personal things I always knew he'd leave me, but I also knew he'd have to leave all his assets to his Thai partner because of the high medication costs.

But it struck me as extremely odd that he's tell one friend that he'd lost all his assets, then leave me some money......., so I thought about it a lot, if he's got financial problems, surely he'd spend that money, though his pensions provided an income of over £1000 per month, so I though if he had any asset that he wouldn't touch, no matter what, then it struck me, the 800,000 baht (£14,600) he leaves in his Thai bank account to get the retirement visa.

All I could think was, if he's left me that, he must have been really pissed off with, or convinced the money would be thrown away by his Thai partner.

[steven ber]

I doubt you will ever get to the bottom of what really happened with your friend

Yes, I agree.

The strange thing is, I don't think I want to know what really happened, I'm pretty much convinced that something did happen, and my friend was 'persuaded' to part with his assets, and it was because of something the Thai partner did.

The details are pretty irrelevant, the bottom line is, the money's gone, so what's the point of looking for the will, I felt under immense pressure to find the will as I knew the medication cost were high, and I felt the Thai partner's life was in my hands, so if it's the Thai partner's fault the money's gone, then there's nothing left to feel guilty about.

I wish it was that easy though.

why isnt it that easy?

It's about having a heart.

I'll give you an example of the kind of pressure I've felt.

In January I booked flights and paid a 30% deposit on a villa so myself and my Mrs could have a well deserved holiday in September, this week was the time to pay the remaining 70%.

I knew this date was coming, and in the same week the rent's due, and with the money I spent going to Thailand, and the money I've paid out trying to find the will, the financial pressure was on.

My Mrs, has only known my friend for 5 years, and didn't really understand why I was so determined to find the solicitor, and whilst she has been supportive, I'm not a fool, I knew in the back of her mind that she thought I was crazy and didn't fully support me.

So then consider that I didn't know my friend's assets were gone until the start of this week, I was trying to convince myself that I could happily slip into the villa pool as my friend's partner may have been slipping into a coma, it's not a great thought, then I was thinking that the money for the rest of the holiday AND the spending money, could keep the Thai partner in medication for another year, But my Mr's would have probably left me.

Just a little pressure.

I paid for the rest of the holiday yesterday.

[Beetlejuice]

Firstly, does the OP have any knowledge if there is an executor of the said will or whether the deceased prior made one of those DIY wills, the type that some people keep under their mattresses or hidden in a shoe box somewhere or even if he made a will at all?

If most of the deceased assets were in the UK and valued at over £5000 then eventually if nothing is being disputed or contested in the said will, the will and the death certificate stating cause of death must be submitted to the probate registry. If it was one of those DIY wills, then it is possible that all the deceased assets and liquid assets may have mysteriously vanished and if any will did exist, has been conveniently mislaid, probably never to be seen again. I believe by law if a UK citizen dies in Thailand then the death must be reported to the British embassy or if the guy died in Chiang Mai, to the British consulate in Chiang Mai so that the death is registered with the births, marriages and deaths registry in the UK. Especially if the guy had a pension or insurance policy that could be passed on to a nominated partner.

If or when the will has been submitted to the UK probate registry, then the OP can order a full copy of the will and death certificate for a fee of £10. If the will has not been submitted to probate, than the executor or a trustee holding the original will has no legal obligations to submit a copy to anyone, including beneficiaries left in the will or friends and relatives of the deceased except to the police if the deceased was believed to have died in suspicious circumstances. Also the banks or any other establishments involved with the deceased personal affairs will not grant access or give information of any of the deceased personal details to the OP or anyone else. As far as I can see, the line of investigation the OP is pursuing in trying to discover the whereabouts of a will or details of what is mentioned in the will, including what happened to the assets in bank accounts and other details, he is going to be unsuccessful.

My advice is this: make an inquiry with the British consulate in Chiang Mai and ask if they can confirm the death was registered and also what was the actual cause of death. The next stage is to check with the UK probate registry to inquire if the will has been registered with probate yet, but at this early stage I doubt it would have been. And this is about all the OP can do.

Regarding the AIDs claim by the deceased partner, I would consider that him being on the last stages as extremely suspect and would insist that the Thai partner produce a doctor`s confirmation that he is in the last stages of having full blown AIDs. It appears that the Thai partner is desperate to obtain the original up to date will otherwise all the deceased assets will automatically become as by law the property of the next of kin, which in this case are the nieces in New Zealand as the OP has mentioned, because in Thailand there is no such thing as a common law partner and unless the deceased and his so-called Thai partner were officially married, than the partner has no claims on the deceased estate without gaining access to the original will, providing he is a beneficiary of course. So it appears the partner is pushing for gaining the whereabouts of the said will and it`s contents for obvious reasons.

I am also guessing that there is more to this case than the OP is mentioning. Perhaps the OP believes he maybe a beneficiary in the will, possibly some serious problems within the Thai partner`s family, parents or siblings where they required a lot of money for something's, maybe serious problems with the law and they are a dubious lot and the deceased has possibly been manipulated into voluntary giving his funds or by deception as he was old and vulnerable. It`s the same old story and I have witnessed this countless times during my many years in Thailand.

If I were the OP I would follow one of the golden rules for those living in Thailand, even if the OP is not living in Thailand and that is; keep a low profile and don`t become involved. That lifestyle was the deceased choice and considering that the deceased did not give the OP full details of his personal affairs, close friend or not, then it is best to drop the whole thing and let nature take it`s course.

Whatever further actions the OP decides to take, he does so at his own risk and discretion and of course at his own expense that will probably lead to nowhere.

My friend has had a will for many years.and on his last visit to England he went to see his solicitor in London to make changes to the will (more on this later), I used to hold a copy of his will and all his important documents, but one of my ex girlfriends destroyed it all (I said in an earlier thread that it was a fire because I didn't want to explain), so my friend was reluctant to leave the really important stuff with me, as I always seem to find crazy women (or turn them crazy), so when I couldn't find these documents in Thailand, I assumed he kept them with his will at the solicitors office, but as I said earlier, the things that seemed to happen regarding the assets have me wondering if there's a different reason I didn't find anything in Thailand.

The death was reported to the consulate office in Chiang Mai (cause of death was respiratory failure), they closed his Thai bank accounts and contacted the UK to try to find relatives and me (my details were on his passport, but it was 10 years old and had out of date details on it), they couldn't find me or any family.

About a month ago I contacted the foreign & Commonwealth office (or whatever it's called these days) to ask them what they do when informed of a British citizen dying overseas (virtually nothing), I got chatting to them and an astonishing fact emerged, even when they're informed of such a death, it's not registered in the UK, and they advised me to register the death as that would make his death visible to many people (by the lists the registered death would appear on), of coarse, I need an original translated copy of the death certificate with the official stamp on it, and they refused to give me the official stamp in Chiang Mai as I'm not family, and refused to give the Thai partner the same as he wasn't married to my friend, so no official translated death certificate.

I've been trying to find the will for 3 months, but to be honest, I've never cared if I see the will or not, after I made up my mind the solicitor must be holding the will, all I wanted was for the solicitor to be aware that my friend had died, nobody knows the name of the solicitor, and the solicitor doesn't know of the death (up to 1 month ago, nobody other than me had tried to get a copy of the death certificate).

The Thai partner is living very well considering he's HIV stage 3, the medication is doing a great job (I've got a list of the medication he takes taken from the boxes of medication in his house), now I've no experience of HIV, but my friend did have, one of his close friends died of Aids and my friend had looked after him for a while, it would have been very difficult to fool my friend, and would have needed to include the doctor, and the chemist who give the tablets for the money, and then the Thai partner would have needed to take the tablets every day, and they'd need to be in the correct boxes as my friend would have been keeping up to date with news on HIV medication, for example, when Thailand started producing their own versions a few years ago, much to the horror of the original manufacturers.

From my side, there isn't more than I'm letting on, I wish I could say the same from the Thai partner's side.

Another strange thing to emerge this week, after learning about my friend's admission to John that he'd lost all his assets, I spoke to my Mrs. to see if she remembered anything my friend had said, and if there were any clues to his real financial position, and she told of a conversation she had that she promised (my friend) she wouldn't repeat.

My friend stayed with us for half of his 2-week stay, but as we live in the country, he then moved to another friend's house in town, so he could visit people and places, a couple of days after he left us, he telephoned my Mrs. and asked her to come to see him as he wanted to talk to her (I was working in London that day), she drove down and he told her he was going to London to see his solicitor to change his will (I already knew from a different friend that he'd been and changed his will), she asked why he was telling her this, he said that he was leaving me something in his will, and asked what our monthly outgoings were, she said about £1200, he said he wasn't leaving me a lot, but it would be enough for us to take a year off work.

Ordinarily, it would be a shock to find he was leaving me some money, there's some personal things I always knew he'd leave me, but I also knew he'd have to leave all his assets to his Thai partner because of the high medication costs.

But it struck me as extremely odd that he's tell one friend that he'd lost all his assets, then leave me some money......., so I thought about it a lot, if he's got financial problems, surely he'd spend that money, though his pensions provided an income of over £1000 per month, so I though if he had any asset that he wouldn't touch, no matter what, then it struck me, the 800,000 baht (£14,600) he leaves in his Thai bank account to get the retirement visa.

All I could think was, if he's left me that, he must have been really pissed off with, or convinced the money would be thrown away by his Thai partner.

If your friend had charged you with the responsibility of holding a copy of his will and all his important documents and you actually had all that stuff in your possession at one time, then those became destroyed because you always seem to find crazy girlfriends, than that makes you a total incompetent, irresponsible and someone who can not be relied on. There can be no excuses. This is why I mentioned in my previous post that such documents should be held with a lawyer and/or stored in a bank strongbox for safe keeping.

If your friend has left his 800000 baht visa requirement money or more in his Thai bank accounts, than the banks will not release those funds until they have been presented with a bona-fife will or a certified copy of the said will by the beneficiary of those funds or by the next of kin with confirmation that they are entitled to any funds in the deceased man`s bank accounts, full stop, end of story there.

Regarding the activities of your friend`s Thai partner, unless he has broken any laws and proven to have committed any criminal acts against your friend, than all what you say about the Thai partner is only speculations and assumptions or case negations that would not hold up in a court of law.

As for your friend`s UK lawyer if he/she is the executor of the said will, I would have thought that your friend would have made some sort of arrangements with someone that the solicitor be notified if in the event of your friend`s death and then it becomes the duty of the solicitor to trace any beneficiaries left in the will, quite often they will make these announcements in the Gazette group of public records newspapers or write to any beneficiaries if their whereabouts become known to them. Perhaps this is now happening without your knowledge?

Personally I do not think you have a chance of discovering any more information regarding the personal affairs of your friend and if you were left anything, you will need to obtain written proof of this other than just on a verbal premises.

[rgs2001uk]

Which will are we talking about here, a farang one or a Thai one?

I have both, one for UK assets and one for Thai assets.

[steven ber]

If your friend had charged you with the responsibility of holding a copy of his will and all his important documents and you actually had all that stuff in your possession at one time, then those became destroyed because you always seem to find crazy girlfriends, than that makes you a total incompetent, irresponsible and someone who can not be relied on. There can be no excuses. This is why I mentioned in my previous post that such documents should be held with a lawyer and/or stored in a bank strongbox for safe keeping.

Admittedly, after my ex girlfriends 3rd. conviction for destruction of sensitive documents, I should have realised my friend's documents could be next.

Excuse the sarcasm, your comment seems over the top.

What kind of warnings do you think I missed?, a seemingly normal girl flies off the handle and destroys all my friend's paperwork, the same friend who put her up in his house when her family threw her out, how could anyone imagine she'd do such a thing.

You're sounding like someone who's never taken a risk in your life, and that can't possibly be true, you're an expat living in Thailand, that's the most almighty gamble, and what if things went wrong in Thailand, what would that make you?

You seem sure you've done everything right, and I seriously hope you have, I've learnt a lot about wills in the last 3 months, and learnt that if the're not completed in EXACTLY the right way, then they're not worth the paper they're written on, I do hope you've got it right.

But if you haven't, and someone comes here asking what to do about your incorrectly filled will, I'll try my best to help the person, and not throw out wild accusations.

After my friend sold his London property, he got rid of everything and asked if he could keep a filing cabinet at my house, I said yes, it meant I could sort out any problems for him when he was in Thailand, nothing more, nothing less, nobody could have foreseen what happened next.

If your friend has left his 800000 baht visa requirement money or more in his Thai bank accounts, than the banks will not release those funds until they have been presented with a bona-fife will or a certified copy of the said will by the beneficiary of those funds or by the next of kin with confirmation that they are entitled to any funds in the deceased man`s bank accounts, full stop, end of story there.

Seriously, why add that paragraph?

That information was understood by me (and likely everyone else) even before I knew anything about wills.

I haven't asked anything about getting money out of a Thai bank, and will make no effort to do so.

Regarding the activities of your friend`s Thai partner, unless he has broken any laws and proven to have committed any criminal acts against your friend, than all what you say about the Thai partner is only speculations and assumptions or case negations that would not hold up in a court of law.

Who mentioned a court of law or criminal acts, do you read what I say, I'll repeat, I am back in the UK and will not be returning to Thailand, then later I said.....I don't really want to know what happened, I want to be sure in my mind that the capital is gone, and that the Thai partner was partially responsible, then I really have no choice than to turn my back on the whole thing, what's the point of me continuing to look for a will if there's not enough money to pay for the medication, that was after all, the reason I started this.

One more thing on this subject, if I found the will tomorrow, and everything was left to the Thai partner, I'd say good luck to him, changes were made to the will on the same day as my friend had the conversation with John about his lost assets, so if my friend still wanted the rest to go to the Thai partner, then so be it, there'll be no argument from me.

As for your friend`s UK lawyer if he/she is the executor of the said will, I would have thought that your friend would have made some sort of arrangements with someone that the solicitor be notified if in the event of your friend`s death and then it becomes the duty of the solicitor to trace any beneficiaries left in the will, quite often they will make these announcements in the Gazette group of public records newspapers or write to any beneficiaries if their whereabouts become known to them. Perhaps this is now happening without your knowledge?

Personally I do not think you have a chance of discovering any more information regarding the personal affairs of your friend and if you were left anything, you will need to obtain written proof of this other than just on a verbal premises.

There was another friend who used to go to Chiang Mai, and he would have been the executor of the will, but he died a few years ago (his brother is going through his vast paperwork to see what he can find), this was likely the reason my friend was making changes to his will, nobody else was asked to become the executor, so it's assumed that the solicitor is the executor.

I agree, someone should have known the name of the solicitor to inform them of the death, but a few things need to be taken into consideration.

1, he didn't expect to die, certainly not before his Thai partner.

2, it's extremely likely that he was in possession of much more than enough information to find the solicitor, including his UK sim card, his address book, and most likely a copy of his will.

3, a few solicitors have told me that about half of all people who make appointments to do their will either don't turn up, or don't sign after the will is completed, they see the will as being too final, I have considered this may have happened, but I doubt it.

I've been checking/searching the will pages of the Gazette's website every week, it seems the minimum period a notice needs to be on the Gazette's website is 2 months, I had looked into placing a notice myself, but when I contacted the Gazette they said only the executor or a solicitor is allowed to place notices, and you can imagine how much a solicitor would charge for this service (and taking the telephone calls).

I paid for a search of the missing will registry (no joy) and a 'reach solicitor search' for the 3 most likely London postcodes, but had no joy, my friend's name was also added to the 'missing will notice board'.

The thought that someone could be sorting out the will already, has been on my mind from day 1, one of the main lines of investigation has always been "what would someone be doing now if they were sorting out this will?", that's what lead me to the Gazette and kept me asking if anyone had applied for the death certificate.

I'm sure I won't find out anything else, and if a will is found or not, I won't be challenging in any way or asking for anything, if there's something in the will for me, then that was my friend's wishes, but I'm really not that interested in money, only in getting my friend's last wishes granted.

[saakura]

Is Nok a ladyboy? Because it is a very unusual name for a thai male?

[steven ber]

Is Nok a ladyboy? Because it is a very unusual name for a thai male?

No, I just made up the name, just trying not to use real names.

[Ricardo]

My sympathies about your friend.

There are numerous Thai money making ponzi, betting, lottery type schemes they get involved in. To the average farang they sound crazy but to a Thai whose head is full of merit and luck nonsense they sound very attractive. I have a Thai friend living in the UK who lost £50k on some scheme where 10 of them got together and leant each other money in a ponzi type scheme. It all ended in tears.

I doubt you will ever get to the bottom of what really happened with your friend as when the stakes get higher the nastier the people you will encounter. Loyalties, promises, trust and friendships have different meanings in Thailand.

A Thai-Chinese relative (by marriage) in Hat Yai (a very Chinese town) was involved in a scheme similar to this, it wasn't a scam, but rather was described to me as a common co-operative savings/lending/venture-capital scheme. Perhaps other posters, more familiar with the culture than I, might know whether it's actually common practice here ?

Ten friends/relatives put in a small capital-sum, the total sum was then available to borrow/use every month, and each would bid the interest they were willing to pay for it. Whoever bid the most, got the use of the money, and repaid the capital plus interest at the end of the month, ready for the next round. Their savings thus generated the best achievable rate-of-return, for nine of them, and an informal-loan for the tenth.

But I agree that, should the successful borrower ever default, then the other nine would lose out. Chinese/Asian notions of face, and loss-of-reputation amongst their friends & business-contacts in the town, were considered the main deterrent against default.

But acquiring a farang/foreign son-in-law opened-up other sources-of-finance, so I don't believe my mother-in-law participates these days, then again how would I ever know, what family didn't wish to tell me ?

[Thaiberius]

My sympathies about your friend.

There are numerous Thai money making ponzi, betting, lottery type schemes they get involved in. To the average farang they sound crazy but to a Thai whose head is full of merit and luck nonsense they sound very attractive. I have a Thai friend living in the UK who lost £50k on some scheme where 10 of them got together and leant each other money in a ponzi type scheme. It all ended in tears.

I doubt you will ever get to the bottom of what really happened with your friend as when the stakes get higher the nastier the people you will encounter. Loyalties, promises, trust and friendships have different meanings in Thailand.

A Thai-Chinese relative (by marriage) in Hat Yai (a very Chinese town) was involved in a scheme similar to this, it wasn't a scam, but rather was described to me as a common co-operative savings/lending/venture-capital scheme. Perhaps other posters, more familiar with the culture than I, might know whether it's actually common practice here ?

Ten friends/relatives put in a small capital-sum, the total sum was then available to borrow/use every month, and each would bid the interest they were willing to pay for it. Whoever bid the most, got the use of the money, and repaid the capital plus interest at the end of the month, ready for the next round. Their savings thus generated the best achievable rate-of-return, for nine of them, and an informal-loan for the tenth.

But I agree that, should the successful borrower ever default, then the other nine would lose out. Chinese/Asian notions of face, and loss-of-reputation amongst their friends & business-contacts in the town, were considered the main deterrent against default.

But acquiring a farang/foreign son-in-law opened-up other sources-of-finance, so I don't believe my mother-in-law participates these days, then again how would I ever know, what family didn't wish to tell me ?

Yes, sounds very similar if not the same. A touch of ponzi with unrealistic interest rates thrown in. My friend is thinking of entering into a similar arrangement again. I just don't know how they can expect it to be a successful venture. Your comment about losing face rung a bell as I was told the full amount was held by some big cheese and participants had to answer to him. I've also heard some young Thai mothers talking about doing the same in the UK. Not up to me but I just know it will all end in tears.

[Ricardo]

Yes, sounds very similar if not the same. A touch of ponzi with unrealistic interest rates thrown in. My friend is thinking of entering into a similar arrangement again. I just don't know how they can expect it to be a successful venture. Your comment about losing face rung a bell as I was told the full amount was held by some big cheese and participants had to answer to him. I've also heard some young Thai mothers talking about doing the same in the UK. Not up to me but I just know it will all end in tears.

"unrealistic interest rates"

The interest-rate is set by the prospective-borrowers bidding for the use of the capital, no doubt an economist would claim that market-forces are the best possible mechanism for allocating the scarce-resources, but I share your doubts.

I don't see why a really-desperate prospective-borrower wouldn't over-bid, then be unable to generate the necessary returns, and thus become unable to repay at the end of the loan-period. I'm thinking of someone using the loan to repay an even-more-expensive-debt, for example a mafia-loan at 20-30% per-month ?

Balanced against that, the lenders would achieve the best possible return on their money, so long as it did all work. So it would work well for the lenders/contributors. And a cooperative micro-credit system like this might be common in Chinese/Thai culture ... I just don't know.

The 'big cheese' would of course be regularly approached for loans anyway, and might even generate a good income, just as long as loans were repaid. I've always been reluctant myself, to have arms/legs broken (joke !), in order to obtain repayment, so have (on the few occasions we've lent) required a proper security. But a loan to a university-student, against an almost-new laptop-computer given by Mummy/Daddy, is sometimes seen as just a way to sell it, no intention ever to repay & reclaim.

There's also a distressing attitude that, if you can afford to lend it, you can afford to lose it too, mai pen rai !

In the UK it was IME common for young Thai wives/mothers to help one another out, and not mention it to their ever-loving husbands, not unreasonable that people finding themselves living in a strange new country/culture should support one another. But I always wondered about the pressure to repay, and what sources of 'easy money' that might lead to, a lottery-ticket is never a sound investment IMO !

But which of us wouldn't, despite being generally against gambling, take part in the office sweep-stake on the Grand National ? It's a slippery slope ! (Don't sue, I meant ramp, not Asian !)

However what can go on here, with the mafia & influential-persons benefiting, can be much darker & cynical, there's desperation & true evil behind the smiling faces, sometimes.

[Thaiberius]

Yes, sounds very similar if not the same. A touch of ponzi with unrealistic interest rates thrown in. My friend is thinking of entering into a similar arrangement again. I just don't know how they can expect it to be a successful venture. Your comment about losing face rung a bell as I was told the full amount was held by some big cheese and participants had to answer to him. I've also heard some young Thai mothers talking about doing the same in the UK. Not up to me but I just know it will all end in tears.

"unrealistic interest rates"

The interest-rate is set by the prospective-borrowers bidding for the use of the capital, no doubt an economist would claim that market-forces are the best possible mechanism for allocating the scarce-resources, but I share your doubts.

I don't see why a really-desperate prospective-borrower wouldn't over-bid, then be unable to generate the necessary returns, and thus become unable to repay at the end of the loan-period. I'm thinking of someone using the loan to repay an even-more-expensive-debt, for example a mafia-loan at 20-30% per-month ?

Balanced against that, the lenders would achieve the best possible return on their money, so long as it did all work. So it would work well for the lenders/contributors. And a cooperative micro-credit system like this might be common in Chinese/Thai culture ... I just don't know.

The 'big cheese' would of course be regularly approached for loans anyway, and might even generate a good income, just as long as loans were repaid. I've always been reluctant myself, to have arms/legs broken (joke !), in order to obtain repayment, so have (on the few occasions we've lent) required a proper security. But a loan to a university-student, against an almost-new laptop-computer given by Mummy/Daddy, is sometimes seen as just a way to sell it, no intention ever to repay & reclaim.

There's also a distressing attitude that, if you can afford to lend it, you can afford to lose it too, mai pen rai !

In the UK it was IME common for young Thai wives/mothers to help one another out, and not mention it to their ever-loving husbands, not unreasonable that people finding themselves living in a strange new country/culture should support one another. But I always wondered about the pressure to repay, and what sources of 'easy money' that might lead to, a lottery-ticket is never a sound investment IMO !

But which of us wouldn't, despite being generally against gambling, take part in the office sweep-stake on the Grand National ? It's a slippery slope ! (Don't sue, I meant ramp, not Asian !)

However what can go on here, with the mafia & influential-persons benefiting, can be much darker & cynical, there's desperation & true evil behind the smiling faces, sometimes.

Have to agree. I find some Thai girls who move to the UK and see the riches that are beyond their reach become very bitter twisted very quickly. Some revert to what they know best ..................