Israel and Hamas agree 12-hour window

[dr_lucas]

 

 
I know it is difficult for certain posters to understand this simple point, but supporting the rights of the Palestinian people does not mean one also supports Hamas and it's tactics!
 
There are many, many posts by a group of people supporting and defending the actions of the IDF and excusing the resulting deaths of hundreds of Palestinian civilians in these topics.
 
I have not seen a single post supporting or defending the firing of missiles into Israel by Hamas nor excusing any Israeli deaths..
 
No doubt if such a post does exist one of you IDF supporters will be able to point me towards it.

 

 
- There were quite a few posts supporting, excusing or defending the firing of missiles into Israel, you can find them here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/744577-gaza-and-israel-suffer-deadliest-day
 
- There are many, many posts by a group of people supporting and defending the actions of Hamas and excusing the resulting deaths of their actions.
 
- I have not seen single post made by Palestinian supporters condemning Gaza's Hamas and the continuous firing of rockets on Israeli civilians, the building of terror tunnels from Gaza into Israeli territory and continuous provocations, the threatening of Hamas on its own civilians to act as human shields (I have seen a lot of Palestinian supports deny, twist, dismiss or blatantly lie about these facts.)
 
- No doubt if such a post does exist one of you Palestinian supports will be able to point me towards it
 
P.S. I support both sides and wish both sides will live together in peace. It truly saddens me to see casualties on either side.

 

 
There are posts trying to explain the reasons for the conflict and the support of Hamas by the residents of Gaza and others pointing out the relative ineffectiveness of the Hamas rocket attacks when compared to the devastation of those by the IDF.
 
But I didn't find one excusing or condoning the death of Israeli civilians.

 

There are many, far too many to list here, posts doing just that for the deaths of Palestinian civilians inflicted by the IDF.
 
As for condemning the actions of Hamas, I didn't have to look far; here is one of mine.

As I have repeatedly said in these topics
•I abhor ALL the deaths, regardless of who killed whom.
•I do not believe Hamas are right to fire rockets into Israel.
•I do not believe Israel is right to bomb civilians.

 

 

I completely agree. Israel (or any country for that matter) must not bomb/target civilians and must do everything it can to avoid bombing or harming civilians, just as Israel is doing.

If Israel was targeting civilians, like Hamas is doing, I'd be the first one to condemn Israel. Don't get me wrong, I don't think every single action Israel is doing, not doing or saying is right.

For example, there are things very few of Israel's parliament members, like foreign minister Avigdor Liberman, say which may sometimes sound harsh on the border of fascism.

Luckily, he is in a minority in the parliament and the Israeli security cabinet are much more balanced and moderate and it seems he is quite dissatisfied that many of his opinions and votes don't count in the security cabinet.

That said, I honestly believe Hamas has given Israel no other choice but to react, that consecutive reaction escalated on both sides and we see where they are today.

Nobody, not me, not you, not Israel, not the IDF wants or like to see Palestinian civilian casualties. That's a fact.

 

[7by7]

I sense the increasing urgency of the western left to topple Israel...........

You guys should try and be consistent.

On the one hand you accuse those opposed to Israel's tactics of being far right, anti Semitic, neo Nazi holocaust deniers dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

Now, suddenly, its the Western left who want to topple Israel!

Yes, there are extremist groups of all political persuasions in the West who want to see the state of Israel toppled; but they are a very small minority who only the paranoid take seriously.
 

[uptheos]

 

 

Just yesterday US Secretary of State, John Kerry proposed a week long cease fire and Israel turned it down.

Hamas has refused cease fires repeatedly over the last few weeks. Israel is in the middle of an operation due to their intransigence. John Kerry can just wait until they are good and ready.

 

 

Hamas can only win if they keep suffering. No reason to quit now. World opinion is turning in their favor and I think they are beginning to realize it.
 

 

 

And from his luxury suite in Doha, dear old Khaleed will make frigging sure that they suffer..... greatly!

The more Palestinian blood that is shed, the more he loves it. The more kids and women killed he laps it up.

Even orders rockets to be fired during the truce, 12 hours without any Palestinians (or Israeli's) getting killed is too long for the Hamas propaganda machine. 

 

 

 

Nobody, not me, not you, not Israel, not the IDF wants or like to see Palestinian civilian casualties. That's a fact.

 

 

Hamas wants to see civilian casualties.....they place them in areas that are guaranteed to get hit!

They love it, the more blood spilled the happier Hamas are. They probably tell people to run every time a camera is seen. The Palestinians are subjected to terror and murder, by the protected leader of Hamas.

 

Edited July 27, 2014 by uptheos

[chuckd]

 

Just in case some of you Palestinian supporters are concerned about the flow of arms to Hamas and the possibility they might run out of rockets...never fear.
 
The dwarf dictator may be coming to their rescue.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Hamas and North Korea in secret arms deal
 
AFP/GETTY
 
Con Coughlin By Con Coughlin, Defence Editor7:00PM BST 26 Jul 2014
 
Hamas militants are attempting to negotiate a new arms deal with North Korea for missiles and communications equipment that will allow them to maintain their offensive against Israel, according to Western security sources.
 
Security officials say the deal between Hamas and North Korea is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and is being handled by a Lebanese-based trading company with close ties to the militant Palestinian organisation based in east Beirut.
 
Hamas officials are believed to have already made an initial cash down payment to secure the deal, and are now hoping that North Korea will soon begin shipping extra supplies of weapons to Gaza.
 
“Hamas is looking for ways to replenish its stocks of missiles because of the large numbers it has fired at Israel in recent weeks,” explained a security official. “North Korea is an obvious place to seek supplies because Pyongyang already has close ties with a number of militant Islamist groups in the Middle East.”
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/10992921/Hamas-and-North-Korea-in-secret-arms-deal.html
 
 

Can you provide the link where Israel is buying his uranium oxide for his nuclear program ?

Was there a latest shipment involved of 80 to 100 tons from Argentine ?



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Sorry, but I must have missed the part that says I'm your secretary.

 

If you think such a link exists, look it up and post it...assuming you can determine if it is on topic.

[Steely Dan]

I sense the increasing urgency of the western left to topple Israel...........

You guys should try and be consistent.

On the one hand you accuse those opposed to Israel's tactics of being far right, anti Semitic, neo Nazi holocaust deniers dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

Now, suddenly, its the Western left who want to topple Israel!

Yes, there are extremist groups of all political persuasions in the West who want to see the state of Israel toppled; but they are a very small minority who only the paranoid take seriously.
 

Here is what an Algerian Arab has to say about faux liberals (the hard left in disguise) and Islamists, indeed the left keeps trying to get into bed with Islamists, but it seldom ends happily for them as the Iranian leftists found out after helping religious fanatics topple the Shah of Iran.

http://blogs.jpost.com/content/dangerous-alliance-faux-liberals-and-islamists


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[7by7]

Oh!

 

A pro American blogger said it and the Jerusalem post quoted him.

 

Must be true, then!

 

Steely Dan, despite your and those of a similar persuasion's fantasies, no one in the West, outside of a relative handful of fanatics, is dedicated to the overthrow of Israel, or even wishes for such a thing.

 

Your use of childish, cheap insults doesn't change that.

 

 

[dr_lucas]

 no one in the West, outside of a relative handful of fanatics, is dedicated to the overthrow of Israel, or even wishes for such a thing.

 

 

I am pretty sure you correct about that, but many in the west are biased against Israel, which in turn makes them demonize Israel. People holding radical left wing opinions without even know half of the facts and complexities of the situation. But, hey that's popular to bash Israel, so let's do it!

 

Edit: No one in Israel, outside of a relative handful of fanatics, is dedicated to the overthrow of the Palestinians, or even wishes for such a thing either.

Edited July 27, 2014 by dr_lucas

[Thorgal]

 no one in the West, outside of a relative handful of fanatics, is dedicated to the overthrow of Israel, or even wishes for such a thing.
 

 
I am pretty sure you correct about that, but many in the west are biased against Israel, which in turn makes them demonize Israel. People holding radical left wing opinions without even know half of the facts and complexities of the situation. But, hey that's popular to bash Israel, so let's do it!
 
Edit: No one in Israel, outside of a relative handful of fanatics, is dedicated to the overthrow of the Palestinians, or even wishes for such a thing either.

Are you shure ?

They use flechettes in their tank shells...not really conventional weapons.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1464455/israel-gaza-conflict-what-are-flechette-shells-and-are-they-legal/

They used depleted uranium, white phosphorus and other toxic metals in their ammo in a previous campain.

http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/israels-weapons-warcrime-on-humanity/

Is this really needed against civilians ?

Do you expect a flawless ceasefire ?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Edited July 27, 2014 by Thorgal

[Litlos]

 

 

 

That must be why they have allowed so many to become citizens of Israel with full voting rights, their own political parties and an Arab on the Supreme Court.. I don't remember the Nazis doing any of  that.  
 
Egypt holds Hamas at fault for Israeli invasion

Shortly after the prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu announced the launch of an Israeli ground operation in the Gaza Strip Thursday night, Egyptian Foreign Minister Sameh Shokri said that Hamas was responsible for what was happening. 
http://www.debka.com/newsupdate/8999/

Nice to open this topic !

Egypt has a 20-year deal to provide natural gas to Israel...

And euh Israel dicovered end of last year huge new oil wells close to...Gaza...

Do you expect them to share the wells/pipelines with the Palestinians ?

Same old song...

Israel is an independent state but not completely for oil and gas rescources/stocks...


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
 

 
Let me correct the wrong facts in this post.
 
The pipeline from Egypt to Israel was damaged by Islamic militants more than once, hence no gas supply.  Egypt are now short of gas and there are now initial agreements to supply an Egyptian LNG plant with gas from Israel.
 
Which huge new oil fields near Gaza?  Israel does not have oil fields, but does have new gas fields being developed.  One of these is called Tamar and is already flowing gas to Israel, the actual field is probably closest to Haifa, which is nowhere near Gaza, though the offshore initial processing facility is fairly close to Gaza, but definitely closest to Israel, not Gaza.  The new field called Leviathan is even further offshore and at one stage Lebanon was trying to claim partial ownership.  Lebanon is at the opposite end of Israel to the Gaza strip.  All these facts are easily looked up via Google or your favourite search engine so please do not come back and say prove my facts.
 
There were no new fields discovered last year as far as I am aware in the Israeli area, though there were a couple of proving wells on already discovered fields.
 
I cannot figure out what the last sentence means.
 
Maybe a bit more research before quoting "facts" in future would be appreciated.
 
Cheers
 

Geology doesn't follow geography...

Egypt awarded last year offshore exploration contracts in blocks 6,7,8 and 9 on their territory. These 4 blocks are limited till Gaza offshore territory. Gaza offshore blocks are not explored yet.

Israel's Meged 5 oilfield site explores Palestinian (West Bank) oil since 2009.
Israel's Yam-3 well, 10 miles from the southern port city of Ashdod is located only a few miles from Gaza.

Estimated Israeli gas reserves will run out for domestic supply in less than 40 years.

It is discernible that the conflict in Gaza is directly due to Israel's appetite for Palestinian oil and gas.

Apology doesn't follow absurdity...

Cheers mate !







Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

Looks like I need to continue with the corrections.

 

Egypt offers exploration blocks, how is this huge new oil wells?

 

Israels Meged 5 is directly across the border from what the the Palestinians are callin the Rantis 1 field where they are inviting bids to drill.  Not sure how the Israeli's are witholding the oil and gas from Palestine with this one?

 

The Yam-3 well 10km offshore from Ashdod (which is about 30km from the Gaza border) was plugged and abandoned as a dry well.  There were oil indications, but it appears to have been residual oil ie where oil has been before, but is no longer there, so not a commercial discovery.  So no huge new oil field nowhere near Gaza with this one either.

 

The conflict is due to Israeli appetitie for Palestinian oil and gas.  Reality does not support this theory either it would seem, and it would be simply absurd to continue to suggest this.

 

Cheers

 

[dr_lucas]

 

 

 
I am pretty sure you correct about that, but many in the west are biased against Israel, which in turn makes them demonize Israel. People holding radical left wing opinions without even know half of the facts and complexities of the situation. But, hey that's popular to bash Israel, so let's do it!
 
Edit: No one in Israel, outside of a relative handful of fanatics, is dedicated to the overthrow of the Palestinians, or even wishes for such a thing either.

Are you shure ?

They use flechettes in their tank shells...not really conventional weapons.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1464455/israel-gaza-conflict-what-are-flechette-shells-and-are-they-legal/

They used depleted uranium, white phosphorus and other toxic metals in their ammo in a previous campain.

http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/israels-weapons-warcrime-on-humanity/

Is this really needed against civilians ?

Do you expect a flawless ceasefire ?


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I am starting to womde

 

 

Yes, I am 100% shure.

And, yes, the use against terrorists & armed guerrilla (not civilians, as you wrote) and the use against deep bunkers and tunnels is necessary.

I am starting to wonder if you ever read what you are posting or just google for possible demonizing information & only read the titles.

From the same articles:

 

Israel, following Operation Cast Lead, said the use of flechettes is legal and that they “are not prohibited under the Law of Armed Conflict or under specific conventional prohibitions or restrictions.”

The government also argued the munitions are used by militaries in a number of conflicts around the world.

Israel said in 2010 it was phasing out its use of U.S.-made flechette shells in favour of Israeli-made Anti-Personnel Anti-Material shells, containing “a tight cluster of bomblets.”

Brigadier-Gen. Agay Yehezkel, commander of the Israeli Defense Force Armoured Corp, told Reuters at the time the change was “a matter of opting for a shell that performs better, with obvious humanitarian benefits.”

He added the “kill zone is much reduced, and focused.”

 

 

Evidence of the use of depleted uranium against Gaza is tenuous and Goldstone merely recorded in paragraph 907 that it had received allegations which it had not further investigated. Much of this evidence came from Action des citoyens pour le désarmement nucléaire (ACDN: Citizens Action for Nuclear Disarmament). Their report of July 2009 hypothesizes that the GBU-39 bunker-buster bomb is packed with 75 kilogram of depleted uranium. (A UNEP report also ambiguously refers to bunker-buster bombs containing depleted uranium.) The US delivery of 1,000 of these bombs to Israel arrived in early December 2008 shortly before the start of the war. The GBU-39 is considered one of the world’s most precise bombs and Boeing, the manufacturer, claims that the bomb will penetrate three feet of steel-reinforced concrete. (UNEP suggests that it can penetrate reinforced concrete to depths ranging from 1.8 to over 6 metres.) Boeing’s patent on the weapon mentions depleted uranium.⁶

It is not known how many bunker-buster bombs were used against Gaza but it seems reasonable to assume that the number could run into hundreds. It is thought that they were used mostly in the Philadelphia corridor against the tunnels. Desmond Travers, the former Irish army officer who was a member of the Goldstone Commission, would only say that depleted uranium may have been used during the war, although he did agree that it would have been well suited for attacking the tunnels where maximum penetration would have been desired.⁷ He was also in agreement with ACDN that the use of below-ground targets would have considerably reduced the levels of aerosol uranium that was dispersed into the air.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.  

[Morch]

 

 

Netanyahu blamed Hama for the kidnap of three teen in the occupied West Bank.

So he used it as an excuse to launch the present slaughter.

Now it appears he got his facts wrong.

On Friday, Chief Inspector Micky Rosenfeld, foreign press spokesman for the Israel Police, reportedly told BBC journalist Jon Donnisonhe that the men responsible for murders were not acting on orders of Hamas leadership. Instead, he said, they are part of a lone cell. Further, Inspector Rosenfeld told Donnison that if Hamas leadership had ordered the kidnapping, they'd have known about it in advance.

 

Twisting facts and spreading disinformation, as usual, Jay.

Israel has launched an air attack on Hamas rocket launchers only after & because Hamas started bombing Israel. Hamas then escalated the attacks, Israel air-strikes were adjusted accordingly and the escalation of both sides reached where it is now.

This is of course not the first time Hamas is doing this:

 

 

More evidence that these are the most incompetent terrorists in world history. Would you deny that I could do more damage against fortified positions with 1000 year old catapults than the Palestinians are doing with 21st century rockets fired into residential areas? Seriously, they have killed only 28 people in 12 Years. Why would anybody on your side of this argument use these numbers to make any kind of a point?

 

Mortars are much more useful as a weapon but so far, they have only fired 25 mortar rounds in this entire year. You could fire a case of mortar rounds in a matter of minutes.

 

 

 

Still with the "most incompetent terrorists" routine?

In all of your posts repeating this nonsense, there wasn't a single coherent explanation as to what parameters are included in this ranking. Terrorism is not just about getting a high body count - its about inducing terror, disrupting everyday life, and getting headlines.

 

Ah, the "catapults" again, and as a follow up, them mortars - so once again, rockets are not necessarily the best way to get a mass casualty list, but they are relatively cheap, got additional terrorism value and until not long ago, were impossible to protect against. Mortars are used, but as they have much shorter range compared with rockets, less effective as far as the terrorist point of view goes. Standing in one place for a few minutes shooting mortars with the IDF/IAF hanging about might be risky. 
 

[Morch]

 

 

- There were quite a few posts supporting, excusing or defending the firing of missiles into Israel, you can find them here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/744577-gaza-and-israel-suffer-deadliest-day
 
- There are many, many posts by a group of people supporting and defending the actions of Hamas and excusing the resulting deaths of their actions.
 
- I have not seen single post made by Palestinian supporters condemning Gaza's Hamas and the continuous firing of rockets on Israeli civilians, the building of terror tunnels from Gaza into Israeli territory and continuous provocations, the threatening of Hamas on its own civilians to act as human shields (I have seen a lot of Palestinian supports deny, twist, dismiss or blatantly lie about these facts.)
 
- No doubt if such a post does exist one of you Palestinian supports will be able to point me towards it
 
P.S. I support both sides and wish both sides will live together in peace. It truly saddens me to see casualties on either side.

 

 
There are posts trying to explain the reasons for the conflict and the support of Hamas by the residents of Gaza and others pointing out the relative ineffectiveness of the Hamas rocket attacks when compared to the devastation of those by the IDF.
 
But I didn't find one excusing or condoning the death of Israeli civilians.

 

There are many, far too many to list here, posts doing just that for the deaths of Palestinian civilians inflicted by the IDF.
 
As for condemning the actions of Hamas, I didn't have to look far; here is one of mine.

As I have repeatedly said in these topics
•I abhor ALL the deaths, regardless of who killed whom.
•I do not believe Hamas are right to fire rockets into Israel.
•I do not believe Israel is right to bomb civilians.

 

 

<snip>

 

For example, there are things very few of Israel's parliament members, like foreign minister Avigdor Liberman, say which may sometimes sound arsh on the border of fascism.  Luckily, he is in a minority in the parliament and the Israeli security cabinet are much more balanced and moderate and it seems he is quite dissatisfied that many of his opinions and votes don't count in the security cabinet.

 

<snip>

 

This is not correct. There are actually quite a lot of vocal right wing politicians spewing their opinions all over Israeli media.   Lieberman is not a borderline fascist, but the real deal. A quick look on how the party he leads runs and some of the ideas and  notions promoted makes this pretty obvious.

 

How is Lieberman a "minority in the Parliament"? While his party got 11 seats (out of 120), there are other right wind parties,  some of them just as hardline. No party in the Israeli parliament comes close to being able to form a government without a coalition, so there isn't much meaning to saying a certain party is in itself in the minority. With 4 ministers (out of 23), and 2 (out of 8) representatives in the security cabinet - this is no fringe.

 

There are other right wing parties in the coalition, and generally they set the tone, not the so-called center partners. Most of the so-called moderate and balanced forces are laying low for electoral reasons.

[MJP]

Please watch this . . .

 

http://www.channel4.com/news/the-children-of-gaza-jon-snow-video

 

Jon Snow is a man of real integrity with no bias or axe to grind.

 

Please Israel and Hamas, find that olive branch.

[dr_lucas]

 

 

 

- There were quite a few posts supporting, excusing or defending the firing of missiles into Israel, you can find them here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/744577-gaza-and-israel-suffer-deadliest-day
 
- There are many, many posts by a group of people supporting and defending the actions of Hamas and excusing the resulting deaths of their actions.
 
- I have not seen single post made by Palestinian supporters condemning Gaza's Hamas and the continuous firing of rockets on Israeli civilians, the building of terror tunnels from Gaza into Israeli territory and continuous provocations, the threatening of Hamas on its own civilians to act as human shields (I have seen a lot of Palestinian supports deny, twist, dismiss or blatantly lie about these facts.)
 
- No doubt if such a post does exist one of you Palestinian supports will be able to point me towards it
 
P.S. I support both sides and wish both sides will live together in peace. It truly saddens me to see casualties on either side.

 

 
There are posts trying to explain the reasons for the conflict and the support of Hamas by the residents of Gaza and others pointing out the relative ineffectiveness of the Hamas rocket attacks when compared to the devastation of those by the IDF.
 
But I didn't find one excusing or condoning the death of Israeli civilians.

 

There are many, far too many to list here, posts doing just that for the deaths of Palestinian civilians inflicted by the IDF.
 
As for condemning the actions of Hamas, I didn't have to look far; here is one of mine.

 

 

 

<snip>

 

For example, there are things very few of Israel's parliament members, like foreign minister Avigdor Liberman, say which may sometimes sound harsh on the border of fascism.

Luckily, he is in a minority in the parliament and the Israeli security cabinet are much more balanced and moderate and it seems he is quite dissatisfied that many of his opinions and votes don't count in the security cabinet.

 

<snip>

 

This is not correct. There are actually quite a lot of vocal right wing politicians spewing their opinions all over Israeli media.

Lieberman is not a borderline fascist, but the real deal. A quick look on how the party he leads runs and some of the ideas

and notions promoted makes this pretty obvious.

 

How is Lieberman a "minority in the Parliament"? While his party got 11 seats (out of 120), there are other right wind parties,

some of them just as hardline. No party in the Israeli parliament comes close to being able to form a government without a

coalition, so there isn't much meaning to saying a certain party is in itself in the minority. With 4 ministers (out of 23), and 2

(out of 8) representatives in the security cabinet - this is no fringe.

 

There are other right wing parties in the coalition, and generally they set the tone, not the so-called center partners. Most of

the so-called moderate and balanced forces are laying low for electoral reasons.

 

 

I was not referring to right wing or left wing politicians in Israel (or their interviews) as there are many of both flavors there, plus the center camp.  Maybe we just have a bit different definitions, but moderate right members (like Mr. Netanyahu) and moderate left (like Ms. Tzipi Livni is) are different than radical right and radical left members.  Maybe we also define "minority" a bit differently. Lieberman 11 seats out of 120 in the parliament or 11 seats out of the 66 of the coalition is  a minority by definition I believe. Lieberman has only 1 seat in the security cabinet, which is the place that really counts when it comes to this discussion topic. There are 6 permanent members + 2 "temporary" members. He is the only representative of his party, which 1 out of 8, a minority by definition.  Out of these 6 there are:

1 from Israel Beitenu party (Lieberman)

2 from the Likud party (moderate right)

2 from the Yesh Atid party (center)

1 from the Avoda (moderate left)

plus

1 from Israel Sheli (moderate-to-radical right)

1 from Likud party (moderate right)

So I think I was quite accurate when I wrote that the security cabinet is much more balanced and moderate than just Lieberman alone. I am also basing this opinion on their past decisions, not only their raw composition. When I wrote that it seems he is quite dissatisfied that many of his opinions and votes don't count in the security cabinet, I was also accurate, I was basing it on the interviews he gave in the past few days, in Hebrew, without translations and/or biased interpretations (as I am fluent in both Arabic and Hebrew).

For example, when he was asked about the the 12 hours humanitarian cease fire, although he didn't say how he voted, it was quite clear by what he said and the way he answered it, that he was against it ("because Hamas, as always, will abuse it, they will use it not just for humanitarian reasons, but  to re-arm and re-position their terrorists and it will put the IDF in greater & unnecessary danger").  Despite that, the cabinet approved it. So again, I believe I was quite accurate.

 

That said, we may now be debating quite off-topic stuff about a snippet I wrote as an example for my personal criticism of the Israeli government (or fractions of it as in the example), regardless if you believe I was accurate or not. Just for the sake of others who read your post and may misunderstand it (or choose to misunderstand your opinion) - do you believe the current  Israeli government is radical? is it fascist? what do you think about its reaction to Hamas terror?

[Thorgal]

[quote name="Litlos" post="8159101" timestamp="1406460536"][quote name="Thorgal" post="8156578" timestamp="1406405142"] [quote name="Litlos" post="8156340" timestamp="1406391502"] [quote name="Thorgal" post="8154487" timestamp="1406361031"] [quote name="Ulysses G." post="8153274" timestamp="1406342885"]That must be why they have allowed so many to become citizens of Israel with full voting rights, their own political parties and an Arab on the Supreme Court.. I don't remember the Nazis doing any of  that.  
 
Egypt holds Hamas at fault for Israeli invasion

Shortly after the prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu announced the launch of an Israeli ground operation in the Gaza Strip Thursday night, Egyptian Foreign Minister Sameh Shokri said that Hamas was responsible for what was happening. 
http://www.debka.com/newsupdate/8999/[/quote]Nice to open this topic !

Egypt has a 20-year deal to provide natural gas to Israel...

And euh Israel dicovered end of last year huge new oil wells close to...Gaza...

Do you expect them to share the wells/pipelines with the Palestinians ?

Same old song...

Israel is an independent state but not completely for oil and gas rescources/stocks...


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
 [/quote] 
Let me correct the wrong facts in this post.
 
The pipeline from Egypt to Israel was damaged by Islamic militants more than once, hence no gas supply.  Egypt are now short of gas and there are now initial agreements to supply an Egyptian LNG plant with gas from Israel.
 
Which huge new oil fields near Gaza?  Israel does not have oil fields, but does have new gas fields being developed.  One of these is called Tamar and is already flowing gas to Israel, the actual field is probably closest to Haifa, which is nowhere near Gaza, though the offshore initial processing facility is fairly close to Gaza, but definitely closest to Israel, not Gaza.  The new field called Leviathan is even further offshore and at one stage Lebanon was trying to claim partial ownership.  Lebanon is at the opposite end of Israel to the Gaza strip.  All these facts are easily looked up via Google or your favourite search engine so please do not come back and say prove my facts.
 
There were no new fields discovered last year as far as I am aware in the Israeli area, though there were a couple of proving wells on already discovered fields.
 
I cannot figure out what the last sentence means.
 
Maybe a bit more research before quoting "facts" in future would be appreciated.
 
Cheers
 [/quote]
Geology doesn't follow geography...

Egypt awarded last year offshore exploration contracts in blocks 6,7,8 and 9 on their territory. These 4 blocks are limited till Gaza offshore territory. Gaza offshore blocks are not explored yet.

Israel's Meged 5 oilfield site explores Palestinian (West Bank) oil since 2009.
Israel's Yam-3 well, 10 miles from the southern port city of Ashdod is located only a few miles from Gaza.

Estimated Israeli gas reserves will run out for domestic supply in less than 40 years.

It is discernible that the conflict in Gaza is directly due to Israel's appetite for Palestinian oil and gas.

Apology doesn't follow absurdity...

Cheers mate !







Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
 [/quote]
Looks like I need to continue with the corrections.
 
Egypt offers exploration blocks, how is this huge new oil wells?
 
Israels Meged 5 is directly across the border from what the the Palestinians are callin the Rantis 1 field where they are inviting bids to drill.  Not sure how the Israeli's are witholding the oil and gas from Palestine with this one?
 
The Yam-3 well 10km offshore from Ashdod (which is about 30km from the Gaza border) was plugged and abandoned as a dry well.  There were oil indications, but it appears to have been residual oil ie where oil has been before, but is no longer there, so not a commercial discovery.  So no huge new oil field nowhere near Gaza with this one either.
 
The conflict is due to Israeli appetitie for Palestinian oil and gas.  Reality does not support this theory either it would seem, and it would be simply absurd to continue to suggest this.
 
Cheers
 [/quote]

For Meged 5 :

http://www.globalresearch.ca/oil-found-by-israel-should-belong-to-palestine-3-5-billion-barrels-of-oil-reserves-on-the-border-between-israel-and-palestine/5362043

For Yam-3 :

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/new-israeli-oil-find-near-gaza-could-drive-hamas-abbas-into-war/2013/09/09/

For Egypt :

http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article1323392.ece

To avoid your next reply :

http://ww4report.com/node/13400

Cheers mate !



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[MJP]

Thai national killed in Israel.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Morch]

 

 

 

 

 
There are posts trying to explain the reasons for the conflict and the support of Hamas by the residents of Gaza and others pointing out the relative ineffectiveness of the Hamas rocket attacks when compared to the devastation of those by the IDF.
 
But I didn't find one excusing or condoning the death of Israeli civilians.

 

There are many, far too many to list here, posts doing just that for the deaths of Palestinian civilians inflicted by the IDF.
 
As for condemning the actions of Hamas, I didn't have to look far; here is one of mine.

 

 

 

<snip>

 

For example, there are things very few of Israel's parliament members, like foreign minister Avigdor Liberman, say which may sometimes sound harsh on the border of fascism.

Luckily, he is in a minority in the parliament and the Israeli security cabinet are much more balanced and moderate and it seems he is quite dissatisfied that many of his opinions and votes don't count in the security cabinet.

 

<snip>

 

This is not correct. There are actually quite a lot of vocal right wing politicians spewing their opinions all over Israeli media.

Lieberman is not a borderline fascist, but the real deal. A quick look on how the party he leads runs and some of the ideas

and notions promoted makes this pretty obvious.

 

How is Lieberman a "minority in the Parliament"? While his party got 11 seats (out of 120), there are other right wind parties,

some of them just as hardline. No party in the Israeli parliament comes close to being able to form a government without a

coalition, so there isn't much meaning to saying a certain party is in itself in the minority. With 4 ministers (out of 23), and 2

(out of 8) representatives in the security cabinet - this is no fringe.

 

There are other right wing parties in the coalition, and generally they set the tone, not the so-called center partners. Most of

the so-called moderate and balanced forces are laying low for electoral reasons.

 

 

I was not referring to right wing or left wing politicians in Israel (or their interviews) as there are many of both flavors there, plus the center camp.  Maybe we just have a bit different definitions, but moderate right members (like Mr. Netanyahu) and moderate left (like Ms. Tzipi Livni is) are different than radical right and radical left members.  Maybe we also define "minority" a bit differently. Lieberman 11 seats out of 120 in the parliament or 11 seats out of the 66 of the coalition is  a minority by definition I believe. Lieberman has only 1 seat in the security cabinet, which is the place that really counts when it comes to this discussion topic. There are 6 permanent members + 2 "temporary" members. He is the only representative of his party, which 1 out of 8, a minority by definition.  Out of these 6 there are:

1 from Israel Beitenu party (Lieberman)

2 from the Likud party (moderate right)

2 from the Yesh Atid party (center)

1 from the Avoda (moderate left)

plus

1 from Israel Sheli (moderate-to-radical right)

1 from Likud party (moderate right)

So I think I was quite accurate when I wrote that the security cabinet is much more balanced and moderate than just Lieberman alone. I am also basing this opinion on their past decisions, not only their raw composition. When I wrote that it seems he is quite dissatisfied that many of his opinions and votes don't count in the security cabinet, I was also accurate, I was basing it on the interviews he gave in the past few days, in Hebrew, without translations and/or biased interpretations (as I am fluent in both Arabic and Hebrew).

For example, when he was asked about the the 12 hours humanitarian cease fire, although he didn't say how he voted, it was quite clear by what he said and the way he answered it, that he was against it ("because Hamas, as always, will abuse it, they will use it not just for humanitarian reasons, but  to re-arm and re-position their terrorists and it will put the IDF in greater & unnecessary danger").  Despite that, the cabinet approved it. So again, I believe I was quite accurate.

 

That said, we may now be debating quite off-topic stuff about a snippet I wrote as an example for my personal criticism of the Israeli government (or fractions of it as in the example), regardless if you believe I was accurate or not. Just for the sake of others who read your post and may misunderstand it (or choose to misunderstand your opinion) - do you believe the current  Israeli government is radical? is it fascist? what do you think about its reaction to Hamas terror?

 

 

Well, as you said, might be a bit OT to go into a detailed argument over this, we can agree to disagree.

 

As for you ending questions:

 

I'm not sure what radical even means in this context.  Even moderate is tricky, sometimes it can mean "better mannered", or "slick". The Israeli government as a whole is not fascist, but some of the coalition parties (and therefore part of the government) are as close as it gets. Same goes for individual MPs in other parties.

 

I tend to separate between short term/operational actions, as opposed to long term goals and plans. In my opinion, Israel is traditionally good on the former, while failing miserably when it comes to the latter. So if the question refers to the actions taken in the context of fighting terrorism as a concrete threat or whether it relates to a long term effort aimed at dealing with the realities which promote terrorism, the answer would be different.

 

On the other hand, as I keep pointing out - the Palestinian leadership could teach Israel a thing or two about messing things up and hurting self interests. And of course, it is not as if the Palestinian politicians (or for that matter, Arab Israeli MPs) are any better than their counterparts. A good indication of this would be the measure of which dissent and alternative opinions are allowed to be voiced in both societies.

 

Israel might not be the paragon of democracy, but considering unique conditions and circumstances, some allowances ought to be made. Judging Israel by the standards of peaceful western democracies is somewhat absurd, most democracies do not face the same mix of moral and survival challenges they way Israel's democratic system does.

[Litlos]

[quote name="Thorgal" post="8156578" timestamp="1406405142"] [quote name="Litlos" post="8156340" timestamp="1406391502"] [quote name="Thorgal" post="8154487" timestamp="1406361031"] [quote name="Ulysses G." post="8153274" timestamp="1406342885"]That must be why they have allowed so many to become citizens of Israel with full voting rights, their own political parties and an Arab on the Supreme Court.. I don't remember the Nazis doing any of  that.  
 
Egypt holds Hamas at fault for Israeli invasion

Shortly after the prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu announced the launch of an Israeli ground operation in the Gaza Strip Thursday night, Egyptian Foreign Minister Sameh Shokri said that Hamas was responsible for what was happening. 
http://www.debka.com/newsupdate/8999/[/quote]Nice to open this topic !

Egypt has a 20-year deal to provide natural gas to Israel...

And euh Israel dicovered end of last year huge new oil wells close to...Gaza...

Do you expect them to share the wells/pipelines with the Palestinians ?

Same old song...

Israel is an independent state but not completely for oil and gas rescources/stocks...


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
 [/quote] 
Let me correct the wrong facts in this post.
 
The pipeline from Egypt to Israel was damaged by Islamic militants more than once, hence no gas supply.  Egypt are now short of gas and there are now initial agreements to supply an Egyptian LNG plant with gas from Israel.
 
Which huge new oil fields near Gaza?  Israel does not have oil fields, but does have new gas fields being developed.  One of these is called Tamar and is already flowing gas to Israel, the actual field is probably closest to Haifa, which is nowhere near Gaza, though the offshore initial processing facility is fairly close to Gaza, but definitely closest to Israel, not Gaza.  The new field called Leviathan is even further offshore and at one stage Lebanon was trying to claim partial ownership.  Lebanon is at the opposite end of Israel to the Gaza strip.  All these facts are easily looked up via Google or your favourite search engine so please do not come back and say prove my facts.
 
There were no new fields discovered last year as far as I am aware in the Israeli area, though there were a couple of proving wells on already discovered fields.
 
I cannot figure out what the last sentence means.
 
Maybe a bit more research before quoting "facts" in future would be appreciated.
 
Cheers
 [/quote]
Geology doesn't follow geography...

Egypt awarded last year offshore exploration contracts in blocks 6,7,8 and 9 on their territory. These 4 blocks are limited till Gaza offshore territory. Gaza offshore blocks are not explored yet.

Israel's Meged 5 oilfield site explores Palestinian (West Bank) oil since 2009.
Israel's Yam-3 well, 10 miles from the southern port city of Ashdod is located only a few miles from Gaza.

Estimated Israeli gas reserves will run out for domestic supply in less than 40 years.

It is discernible that the conflict in Gaza is directly due to Israel's appetite for Palestinian oil and gas.

Apology doesn't follow absurdity...

Cheers mate !







Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand
 [/quote]
Looks like I need to continue with the corrections.
 
Egypt offers exploration blocks, how is this huge new oil wells?
 
Israels Meged 5 is directly across the border from what the the Palestinians are callin the Rantis 1 field where they are inviting bids to drill.  Not sure how the Israeli's are witholding the oil and gas from Palestine with this one?
 
The Yam-3 well 10km offshore from Ashdod (which is about 30km from the Gaza border) was plugged and abandoned as a dry well.  There were oil indications, but it appears to have been residual oil ie where oil has been before, but is no longer there, so not a commercial discovery.  So no huge new oil field nowhere near Gaza with this one either.
 
The conflict is due to Israeli appetitie for Palestinian oil and gas.  Reality does not support this theory either it would seem, and it would be simply absurd to continue to suggest this.
 
Cheers
 

For Meged 5 :

http://www.globalresearch.ca/oil-found-by-israel-should-belong-to-palestine-3-5-billion-barrels-of-oil-reserves-on-the-border-between-israel-and-palestine/5362043

For Yam-3 :

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/new-israeli-oil-find-near-gaza-could-drive-hamas-abbas-into-war/2013/09/09/

For Egypt :

http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article1323392.ece

To avoid your next reply :

http://ww4report.com/node/13400

Cheers mate !



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

None so blind as those who will not see it seems. plus a bit of selective googling, do try harder if you wish to be taken seriously.

 

Here a re a few things to try:

1/  Check for the details of Rantis 1 oil field for the oil on the Palestinian side of the border. Oh  by the way the industry is not over excited about Meged 5, only the media.

2/  Yam 3 find any reference to it being comercial.  The link you gave confirms what I said, oil was found and it would be produced if it was commercial, it was not judged commercial over a few barrels of oil.  To further your education and for extra points look up the term "residual oil" that I used to fully understand the situation.

3/  For Egypt.  Find any reference to a discovery of "huge oil".  This link only points to exploration leases.

4/  Some unknown blogger with a conspiracy theory, as my American compatriots would say a dime a dozen, or the locals say something like worth about 5 Grot.

 

To give you a hint I have a few years in the oil and gas industry and have a pretty good BS detector on oil/gas discovery stories.  From where I am presently located I knew as soon as Hamas breached the ceasefire, not sitting behind a keyboard in Thailand or wherever sucking in the BS the media is spreading.

 

Cheers

[Thorgal]

[quote name="Litlos" post="8161045" timestamp="1406515119"][quote name="Thorgal" post="8160262" timestamp="1406492679"][quote name="Litlos" post="8159101" timestamp="1406460536"][quote name="Thorgal" post="8156578" timestamp="1406405142"] [quote name="Litlos" post="8156340" timestamp="1406391502"] [quote name="Thorgal" post="8154487" timestamp="1406361031"] [quote name="Ulysses G." post="8153274"

For Meged 5 :

http://www.globalresearch.ca/oil-found-by-israel-should-belong-to-palestine-3-5-billion-barrels-of-oil-reserves-on-the-border-between-israel-and-palestine/5362043

For Yam-3 :

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/new-israeli-oil-find-near-gaza-could-drive-hamas-abbas-into-war/2013/09/09/

For Egypt :

http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article1323392.ece

To avoid your next reply :

http://ww4report.com/node/13400

Cheers mate !



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
 
None so blind as those who will not see it seems. plus a bit of selective googling, do try harder if you wish to be taken seriously.
 
Here a re a few things to try:
1/  Check for the details of Rantis 1 oil field for the oil on the Palestinian side of the border. Oh  by the way the industry is not over excited about Meged 5, only the media.
2/  Yam 3 find any reference to it being comercial.  The link you gave confirms what I said, oil was found and it would be produced if it was commercial, it was not judged commercial over a few barrels of oil.  To further your education and for extra points look up the term "residual oil" that I used to fully understand the situation.
3/  For Egypt.  Find any reference to a discovery of "huge oil".  This link only points to exploration leases.
4/  Some unknown blogger with a conspiracy theory, as my American compatriots would say a dime a dozen, or the locals say something like worth about 5 Grot.
 
To give you a hint I have a few years in the oil and gas industry and have a pretty good BS detector on oil/gas discovery stories.  From where I am presently located I knew as soon as Hamas breached the ceasefire, not sitting behind a keyboard in Thailand or wherever sucking in the BS the media is spreading.
 
Cheers[/quote]

You should calibrate your BS detector...if broken, replace it !



Just to avoid a reply from you :

http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2489992/armed_robbery_in_gaza_israel_us_uk_carve_up_the_spoils_of_palestines_stolen_gas.html

Cheers mate !




Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Edited July 28, 2014 by Thorgal

[Steely Dan]

Morch,

Whatever Lieberman is or isn't I do agree with him when he stated the biggest mistake Ariel Sharon ever made was ordering the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza. Since then Israel have never got a moments peace, got no thanks or recognition, to top it all ignorant leftists still refer to Gaza as occupied.
It might be an idea to sub contract the administration of Gaza to the Egyptian military, who would no doubt be far more ruthless than the Israelis whilst receiving scarcely any media attention.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[kblaze]

Americans support Israel over the Palestinians by at least three to one and they are one of our closest allies. That ain't going to happen. 

 

Take a look at the numbers for those under 50...

 

ages 18-29: only 25% say Israel's actions are justified

ages 30-49: only 36%    

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/174110/americans-reaction-middle-east-situation-similar-past.aspx?

[Pakboong]

 

 

 

Netanyahu blamed Hama for the kidnap of three teen in the occupied West Bank.

So he used it as an excuse to launch the present slaughter.

Now it appears he got his facts wrong.

On Friday, Chief Inspector Micky Rosenfeld, foreign press spokesman for the Israel Police, reportedly told BBC journalist Jon Donnisonhe that the men responsible for murders were not acting on orders of Hamas leadership. Instead, he said, they are part of a lone cell. Further, Inspector Rosenfeld told Donnison that if Hamas leadership had ordered the kidnapping, they'd have known about it in advance.

 

Twisting facts and spreading disinformation, as usual, Jay.

Israel has launched an air attack on Hamas rocket launchers only after & because Hamas started bombing Israel. Hamas then escalated the attacks, Israel air-strikes were adjusted accordingly and the escalation of both sides reached where it is now.

This is of course not the first time Hamas is doing this:

 

 

More evidence that these are the most incompetent terrorists in world history. Would you deny that I could do more damage against fortified positions with 1000 year old catapults than the Palestinians are doing with 21st century rockets fired into residential areas? Seriously, they have killed only 28 people in 12 Years. Why would anybody on your side of this argument use these numbers to make any kind of a point?

 

Mortars are much more useful as a weapon but so far, they have only fired 25 mortar rounds in this entire year. You could fire a case of mortar rounds in a matter of minutes.

 

 

 

Still with the "most incompetent terrorists" routine?

In all of your posts repeating this nonsense, there wasn't a single coherent explanation as to what parameters are included in this ranking. Terrorism is not just about getting a high body count - its about inducing terror, disrupting everyday life, and getting headlines.

 

Ah, the "catapults" again, and as a follow up, them mortars - so once again, rockets are not necessarily the best way to get a mass casualty list, but they are relatively cheap, got additional terrorism value and until not long ago, were impossible to protect against. Mortars are used, but as they have much shorter range compared with rockets, less effective as far as the terrorist point of view goes. Standing in one place for a few minutes shooting mortars with the IDF/IAF hanging about might be risky. 
 

 

I hate repeating anything but I have to endure the Human Shield crapola on a daily basis. I again remind you that if you have a problem with my posts, please put me on ignore. I offer you discourse and little else. You are completely entrenched in your tribal point of view and I get it. When I say that I am used to it, we are talking serious understatement. I find a bit of irony in the use of the "again" frame of reference.

 

Again, all I have to offer you is discourse, if you need something else, please ignore me. I see with all the likes in your posts you have plenty of tribal cheerleaders so if it is cheerleaders you need, I am not your guy.

 

[Jingthing]

The "incompetent terrorist" meme really does come off as a tin foil hat style conspiracy theory. Hamas obviously doesn't (yet and hopefully never) have the arms to defeat Israel militarily but they do have the tools to TERRORIZE Israelis ... if they can't kill many of them, they would certainly like to make them want to LEAVE. And also dissuade many from COMING in the first place. 

Edited July 28, 2014 by Jingthing

[Pakboong]

The "incompetent terrorist" meme really does come off as a tin foil hat style conspiracy theory. Hamas obviously doesn't (yet and hopefully never) have the arms to defeat Israel militarily but they do have the tools to TERRORIZE Israelis ... if they can't kill many of them, they would certainly like to make them want to LEAVE. And also dissuade many from COMING in the first place. 

 

Many of my theories come off as such. Again, it is discourse.
 

[chuckd]

News from Friday prayers in Tehran.  It would seem the Iranians are strong supporters of the Palestinians effort to push Israel into the sea.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Iran General: We Will Hunt Down Israelis House To House

 

9:50 PM 07/27/2014

 

The deputy commander of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards vowed revenge against Israel for its ongoing military incursion into Gaza, which has already killed hundreds of Palestinians and dozens of Israelis.

 

“You [people of Israel] are trees without any roots which were planted in the Islamic lands by the British,” Brig. Gen. Hossein Salami said at this week’s Friday prayer sermon in Tehran, Fars News Agency reported. That statement referred to the Balfour Declaration, which led to the dismantling of the Ottoman Empire after World War I and the eventual creation of the state Israel in 1948.

 

“We will chase you house to house and will take revenge for every drop of blood of our martyrs in Palestine,” Salami said, “and this is the beginning point of Islamic nations awakening for your defeat.”

 

The deputy commander promised that Palestine will no longer remain calm and cited a statement by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder of the Islamic regime: “Imam [Khomeini] with the statement that Israel must be wiped from the face of the Earth gave a true message to the world. This message enlightened the Muslims and became the concept on the streets of Syria, Lebanon and Palestine.”

 

More here:  http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/27/iran-general-we-will-hunt-down-israelis-house-to-house/

 

 

PS:  Is Iran still working on their nuclear program?  

 

(rhetorical question)

 

 

[Jingthing]

 

The "incompetent terrorist" meme really does come off as a tin foil hat style conspiracy theory. Hamas obviously doesn't (yet and hopefully never) have the arms to defeat Israel militarily but they do have the tools to TERRORIZE Israelis ... if they can't kill many of them, they would certainly like to make them want to LEAVE. And also dissuade many from COMING in the first place. 

 

Many of my theories come off as such. Again, it is discourse.
 

 

If you say so. 

[Pakboong]

 

 

The "incompetent terrorist" meme really does come off as a tin foil hat style conspiracy theory. Hamas obviously doesn't (yet and hopefully never) have the arms to defeat Israel militarily but they do have the tools to TERRORIZE Israelis ... if they can't kill many of them, they would certainly like to make them want to LEAVE. And also dissuade many from COMING in the first place. 

 

Many of my theories come off as such. Again, it is discourse.
 

 

If you say so. 

 

Really. I am confident that if we polled the 6.5 billion people on the planet, infinitely more would agree with me. Doesn't make  me right necessarily but we do argue for democracy. I absolutely understand that a small minority group of 15 million having to stick together but that shouldn't affect my point of view.

 

Edited July 28, 2014 by Pakboong

[Litlos]

&nbsp;

[quote name="Litlos" post="8161045" timestamp="1406515119"][quote name="Thorgal" post="8160262" timestamp="1406492679"][quote name="Litlos" post="8159101" timestamp="1406460536"][quote name="Thorgal" post="8156578" timestamp="1406405142"] [quote name="Litlos" post="8156340" timestamp="1406391502"] [quote name="Thorgal" post="8154487" timestamp="1406361031"] [quote name="Ulysses G." post="8153274"

For Meged 5 :

http://www.globalresearch.ca/oil-found-by-israel-should-belong-to-palestine-3-5-billion-barrels-of-oil-reserves-on-the-border-between-israel-and-palestine/5362043

For Yam-3 :

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/new-israeli-oil-find-near-gaza-could-drive-hamas-abbas-into-war/2013/09/09/

For Egypt :

http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article1323392.ece

To avoid your next reply :

http://ww4report.com/node/13400

Cheers mate !



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand[/quote]
 
None so blind as those who will not see it seems. plus a bit of selective googling, do try harder if you wish to be taken seriously.
 
Here a re a few things to try:
1/  Check for the details of Rantis 1 oil field for the oil on the Palestinian side of the border. Oh  by the way the industry is not over excited about Meged 5, only the media.
2/  Yam 3 find any reference to it being comercial.  The link you gave confirms what I said, oil was found and it would be produced if it was commercial, it was not judged commercial over a few barrels of oil.  To further your education and for extra points look up the term "residual oil" that I used to fully understand the situation.
3/  For Egypt.  Find any reference to a discovery of "huge oil".  This link only points to exploration leases.
4/  Some unknown blogger with a conspiracy theory, as my American compatriots would say a dime a dozen, or the locals say something like worth about 5 Grot.
 
To give you a hint I have a few years in the oil and gas industry and have a pretty good BS detector on oil/gas discovery stories.  From where I am presently located I knew as soon as Hamas breached the ceasefire, not sitting behind a keyboard in Thailand or wherever sucking in the BS the media is spreading.
 
Cheers[/quote]

You should calibrate your BS detector...if broken, replace it !



Just to avoid a reply from you :

http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2489992/armed_robbery_in_gaza_israel_us_uk_carve_up_the_spoils_of_palestines_stolen_gas.html

Cheers mate !




Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

&nbsp;

If anyone believes the above article I will shortly be heading back to Thailand from Israel, and can pick up some genuine 10BC crucifixes from Jerusalem that I can get relatively cheap and are willing to part with at cost, plus a small handling fee.

Honestly I have not laughed so hard for years. The article appears to be a mix of 2009 assumptions glued on to the present day hostilities using blinkered vision to ignore reality and ignorance as a glue. After reading this my BS detector does not need calibration, more likely replacement as overloaded.

Have a look at http://www.nobleenergyinc.com/operations/eastern-mediterranean-128.html there is an analyst report on the page which shows the true position of gas supplies to Israel. Particularly interesting is page seven which clearly shows the Tamar facility is only operating on average at 75% capacity and that capacity will be increased by 22% by the end of the year, and a further 25% by end 2015. That current 75% is of nameplate rating only, and has already been exceeded by up to 10% for peak flows.

Have a problem with the data from Noble Energy then take it up with the SEC of the US, as from memory they are the ones who ensure any information released to the market by a listed company is accurate.

The article also ignores the LNG gas importation facility at Hadera that is already in operation. Never mind the agreements in place to sell gas to Jordan. Sell gas to Jordan while Israel is short of gas, yeah sure.

So basically Israel is not in a gas crisis and is certainly not committing "armed robbery" for the Gaza marine gas. It does not need to it has more than enough gas supplies already.

However lets go back to the original statement about "huge oil". Still waiting for something real on that one.


Cheers

[Ulysses G.]

 

Americans support Israel over the Palestinians by at least three to one and they are one of our closest allies. That ain't going to happen. 

 
Take a look at the numbers for those under 50...
 
ages 18-29: only 25% say Israel's actions are justified
ages 30-49: only 36%    
 
http://www.gallup.com/poll/174110/americans-reaction-middle-east-situation-similar-past.aspx?

 

For some strange reason you are ignoring the rest of the American populace and also the other side of the equation.

only 11% say Palestinians' actions are justified