When Nomads becomes Static are they still Nomadic?

[finy]

IMO a nomad is someone with a bank account and a passport, plus a few things they can keep in a backpack.

I bought some cooking stuff and a desk last month. Today I gave it away to my neighbor because I will leave tomorrow. I will also throw away some old clothes.

I will use my passport to go somewhere else and I'll use my bank account to buy new stuff when I arrive at my next place.

They also have a laptop, but since everything is saved in multiple places in the cloud their business can be operational again within a few hours after purchasing a new laptop. Their Kindle and audio books can be downloaded to new devices if the lose/break them.

Just a passport, a bank account/card, and the clothes on your back make you a nomad, but I prefer to take my 'main' possessions around with me in a 30ltr backpack (great for carrying on planes).

------------------------------------------------------

I don't think IT nomads (or whatever people are calling them these days) should get into these pointless arguments with some people who don't mince their words. We make thousands of dollars per month, some make millions, and we can move around whenever we like, don't have to pay any tax (sorry Americans), and basically just like the good life so don't get into arguments with anyone about it.

For the record, if I had to work for a company 40 years straight to be allowed the privilege of living in Thailand on a small pension I'd hate those younger guys too, because they have so much potential to make huge money and they're basically having the time of their lives doing it.

[chrisinth]

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If you can leave the country and not worry about the financial loss of leaving stuff behind you're a nomad. If you haven't put roots down by buying houses or businesses, you're a nomad. People exist in Thailand for years with a nomadic attitude, and they tend to be the happiest - they're here because they want to be here - not because they are trapped.

It doesn't matter what visa you're on - retirement/work/whatever - as long as you can leave in a heart-beat without worrying about what you leave behind - you are a nomad.

Non-nomads own houses/condos/businesses - or are tied to families. Some non-nomads can't afford the price of a flight home - non-nomads are stuck, they have to disentangle themselves to get out of the country. I'd guess that ninety-odd percent of long-stayers in Thailand take a nomadic attitude to the country. Even of they have been here for years, they will never allow themselves to be trapped in Thailand. I'd place a bet that ninety-odd percent of long=stayers in Thailand could leave within twenty-four hours and leave nothing of consequence behind.

So when do you stop being a nomad? when you put down roots that have to be ripped out to allow you to leave.

That applies to everyone. irrespective of age or length of time in the country.

"If you can leave the country and not worry about the financial loss of leaving stuff behind you're a nomad. If you haven't put roots down by buying houses or businesses, you're a nomad."

I would disagree. I meet all your criteria above, yet wouldn't consider myself a nomad. I have made sacrifices, rather adjustments, to remain in this country. I still have the freedom to travel anywhere I want, my wife would travel with me. To lose a car and a job would also be acceptable, but why would I want to? That to me is not being nomadic.

As with the OP, the majority of people chasing the criteria for "IT nomads" are in my opinion looking for long stay options to remain in Thailand, going against the description of their occupation. Also, the majority are not willing to make changes to accommodate the laws of the country, they want their cake and to eat it as well.

Nomadic is continually on the move.

I believe you work out of the county and you are constantly on the move?

I went to UK at the beginning of last year. First time out of the country (Thailand) in 14 years.

[duanebigsby]

Thailand could just remove the age criteria on the retirement visa. Simple.

Or they could follow the lead of PI with their smile visa:

http://www.pra.gov.ph/main/srrv_program?page=1

Or they could just give out visas to everyone. The country seems to want to restrict people into certain categories. That is their right.

Wishful thinking by people who don't fit the categories is just that.

[duanebigsby]

If Thailand would change something we would see a massive increasing of online businesses with a Thai Company Limited...would make this country a hub for a online business startups...

You mean online business startups by foreigners. I don't see the benefit for Thailand by having a bunch of foreigners running startups.

[Ayemanomad]

If you can leave the country and not worry about the financial loss of leaving stuff behind you're a nomad. If you haven't put roots down by buying houses or businesses, you're a nomad. People exist in Thailand for years with a nomadic attitude, and they tend to be the happiest - they're here because they want to be here - not because they are trapped.

It doesn't matter what visa you're on - retirement/work/whatever - as long as you can leave in a heart-beat without worrying about what you leave behind - you are a nomad.

Non-nomads own houses/condos/businesses - or are tied to families. Some non-nomads can't afford the price of a flight home - non-nomads are stuck, they have to disentangle themselves to get out of the country. I'd guess that ninety-odd percent of long-stayers in Thailand take a nomadic attitude to the country. Even of they have been here for years, they will never allow themselves to be trapped in Thailand. I'd place a bet that ninety-odd percent of long=stayers in Thailand could leave within twenty-four hours and leave nothing of consequence behind.

So when do you stop being a nomad? when you put down roots that have to be ripped out to allow you to leave.

That applies to everyone. irrespective of age or length of time in the country.

Very well put.

I guess that I'm definitely a nomad then, as my name suggests.

[Ayemanomad]

Just like the gypsies,,,It nomads are ok if they keep moveing...the minute they stop move em on,.

Excuse me?

The minute I stop moving, they will be taking me away in a wooden box! Also, there is no 'e' in moving.

[LPCustom69]

Thailand could just remove the age criteria on the retirement visa. Simple.

Or they could follow the lead of PI with their smile visa:

http://www.pra.gov.ph/main/srrv_program?page=1

They will raise the retirement age before they lower it.

I won't be surprised if they double the money in the bank/monthly income for retirement and marriage extensions.

The elite card seems like a fair deal for those who don't qualify for other exemptions.

Wanting special rights because you have the same income as a geezer whose pension is 25-50% of their working wage is insane.

Perhaps the Thais don't want an abundance of sub 50's here?

[BuddhaChile]

If a man with no arms has a gun ....... is he "armed"?

[SoFarAndNear]

If Thailand would change something we would see a massive increasing of online businesses with a Thai Company Limited...would make this country a hub for a online business startups...

You mean online business startups by foreigners. I don't see the benefit for Thailand by having a bunch of foreigners running startups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instagram

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dropbox_(service)

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-15-most-valuable-cloud-computing-companies-2013-7

I could post you many names of companies who at least make a mio USD turnover per year. But you probably wouldn't even understand what they do. So just a small overview of the biggest "Startups" see links above.

But the benefits from all these small resorts, restaurants around all tourist destinations are more benefit for Thailand right?

Edited July 28, 2014 by SoFarAndNear

[LivinLOS]

what defines their job descriptions? What is the controlling body or circumstances (yes, contradiction in terms) that would allow the department of labor to consider issuing work permits for only them and not the next person who writes IT Nomad on their application?

There isnt one.. The authorities could, if they so wished, adapt the media visa to cover online media, hence blog publishing etc would fall under this remit.

There then comes the intense difficulty in verifying incomes and in many cases maintaining min wage etc.

Currently it seems clear the authorities dont wish to do this. Which is entirely their right. However when the definitions of work are so vague, huge grey areas appear, and you can hardly blame the people caught up without a visa class route to them, for staying in the grey area the current rules create.

LOS, agree with your points, very similar to mine. The internet is a huge grey area with no global regulations and a nightmare for any government to issue work permits, or rather regulate the issue of those permits where the definition of work is so general.

I know a lot of people living in Thailand, with the correct visas to satisfy immigration, however the majority of them are still in communication with businesses outside the country to one degree or another and are in effect ignoring the labour laws by doing so.

Taking interpretation to the limit, even people on this forum, by submitting advice and comments and improving the rating of the site could be defined as working.

I think it's time get serious, because this post and other are just total rubbish.

Work is the exchange of payment for labour or services on a mutually agreed basis. It's isn't any kind of human activity at all....breathing, eating, going to the toilet, chatting in a bar with friends, chatting in a bar with strangers....or posting a comment online to a forum to a bunch of strangers. That isn't work, it isn't business, it doesn't require any special visa. So stop talking so much rubbish.

Tell it to the legal eagle who drew up the Thai legislation.. Tell it to the guy arrested for doing up his own sailboat.. Tell it to the guy arrested and detained for painting his own house..

No one will answer my simple question.. Is posting to a website or blog "work" ???

[LivinLOS]

If Thailand would change something we would see a massive increasing of online businesses with a Thai Company Limited...would make this country a hub for a online business startups...

You mean online business startups by foreigners. I don't see the benefit for Thailand by having a bunch of foreigners running startups.

Large amounts of money brought in as disposable income.. Thais contracted for services to those startups.. All the businesses around the hotspots that thrive off them..

Its basically tourism on steroids.

[JLCrab]

Here are the guys in charge of the Consular section of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs:

Department of Consular Affairs Director-General - MR. THONGCHAI CHASAWATH

Visa and Travel Documents Division Director - MR. DANAI MENABODHI

Both have their email and Telephone numbers on the MFA website. They may be delighted to hear what, in contrast to what they currently believe to be in the best interests of Thailand, is really in the best interests of Thailand.

BTW to the question is posting on a website or blog work? I don't have the slightest &lt;deleted&gt;*n idea.

Edited July 28, 2014 by JLCrab

[LivinLOS]

BTW to the question is posting on a website or blog work? I don't have the slightest <deleted>*n idea.

But I though the rules were clear and simple and without grey areas ??

[JLCrab]

BTW to the question is posting on a website or blog work? I don't have the slightest <deleted>*n idea.

But I though the rules were clear and simple and without grey areas ??

You can think anything you like.

[tlock]

My take on this is not an original thought, but once I saw another poster mention it, it resonated. None of this is really about "preventing foreigners from working", it's just the generic anti-foreigner stance most conservative politcal parties take throughout the world. The mexicans are ruining america, the africans are ruining france, etc. etc. I would suspect that all these grumps with the "just follow the rules" broken record are also essentially politically conservative. Likewise, obviously, military across the world tends to be conservative.

I think that things will be taken too far, to the point that even the democrats who were cheering the junta will start getting nervous, oh wait wait we didn't mean do all THAT! Hopefully the military eventually steps down (Heya Myanmar , and at that point I think this particular concern will actually be addressed. 2-3 years from now I suspect a more progressive government will come up with a visa class for the digital nomads in the interest of economic growth. I'm not even really sure how to address the people who can't see the benefits of a creative/energetic/low-regulation startup culture. It's kind of an axiom that if we don't agree on, we can't really continue the discussion speaking the same language.

It's the economy stupid!

[JLCrab]

I'm not even really sure how to address the people who can't see the benefits -- Nice euphemism 'the people'. Call them 'The Government' specifically the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Labour. You see the benefits; they apparently don't. All you have to do is convince them.

[Ayemanomad]

If a man with no arms has a gun ....... is he "armed"?

No....... he's armless.

[tlock]

I'm not even really sure how to address the people who can't see the benefits -- Nice euphemism 'the people'. Call them 'The Government' specifically the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Ministry of Labour. You see the benefits; they apparently don't. All you have to do is convince them.

Hey Man- I'm just having a discussion on an internet forum. I'm not really sure what it is you're doing. But it certainly is getting repetitive.

1.) These are the rules. If you want to work online, start a BOI company, put up the capital, get an office, 4 thai employees- I agree with you, these are the rules.

2.) If you don't like it, convince the government to change- I think this is fallacious, you're just trying to make a clever comment. I have no interest in joining thai politics. I mean, not to be nitpicky, but there isn't even a government right now, is there?

And then you seem to just loop between 1 and 2 on every thread I've seen you post on.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/743034-out-in-visa-hoppers-now-being-barred-from-entry-to-thailand/page-4#entry8106143

The rest of us are not trying to "win" something and be smarter than anyone else, just having a chat with the morning coffee, exchanging ideas.

In Silicon Valley, they are decreasing the barriers to allow foreign IT workers: http://www.workpermit.com/news/2013-03-18/us-tech-chiefs-lobby-obama-and-congress-on-h-1b-visas-and-green-cards

I was simply speculating that in a few years Thailand will catch up, once they have a government. I could be wrong, who knows. You know what they say about winning an argument on the internet.

[JLCrab]

Sure -- you're just having a discussion on the internet as to how Thailand could be the shining-city-on-the-hill if it would only change its policies to be more in concert to what the young digital nomads see as its better interests.

'Hope you're enjoying your coffee.

[anon676545345]

I think there is a lack of understanding about the scope of people who fall into the "digital nomad" category the term covers many different industries, qualifications and incomes, the only link is that they all use a computer in some respect.

It's not easy to earn a living online you can't simply pick up a computer and start making money or a lot more people would be doing it. Some posters on here seem to have the attitude of "I don't know what you do but .........." When you start a statement with "Idon't know" there is no need for a "but" as the "I don't know" states that anything written after it is completly irrelevant.

Times change the labour market back in the west isn't the same as it was 20 years ago, technology has moved on people make the best of the situation and opportunities available to them.

[IMA_FARANG]

I don't think this will ever happen, let me make that clear at the start.

But having said that ...... there would be advantages for both sides if Thailand made a specific visa class for freelancers who would like to live here long term.

For one thing, many of these "digital nomads" we are talking about have high incomes by Thai standards ..... often made by their on-line business activity.

If they had the chance to get a valid visa to stay here they could contribute to the Thai economy.

And for that they should also pay Thai taxes on the income they earn, a clear advantage for the Thai government.

They would also benefit to be able to work here legally, because the Thai tax rates are lower than most European or U.S. tax rates are for the same income.

Also the cost of living can be cheaper in Thailand (depending on how you want to live).

So it could be a win-win situation for both the expats who want to live here and make their living on-line and the Thai government.

But, as I said, I'm afraid it will never happen.

Unfortunately.

[stevenl]

what defines their job descriptions? What is the controlling body or circumstances (yes, contradiction in terms) that would allow the department of labor to consider issuing work permits for only them and not the next person who writes IT Nomad on their application?

There isnt one.. The authorities could, if they so wished, adapt the media visa to cover online media, hence blog publishing etc would fall under this remit.

There then comes the intense difficulty in verifying incomes and in many cases maintaining min wage etc.

Currently it seems clear the authorities dont wish to do this. Which is entirely their right. However when the definitions of work are so vague, huge grey areas appear, and you can hardly blame the people caught up without a visa class route to them, for staying in the grey area the current rules create.

Are you claiming the present situation is a grey area for online workers?

Yes in some specific ways.. No in the simplistic resident person working online for income way.

I can list many many ways the law is unsure, I am sure anyone with half a brain can think of many others.

Issues around location at the time of content creation.. Issues around the aspect of residual income from sites or advertising while visiting the kingdom.. Issues around hobby sites or creating youtube videos for fun Etc etc.. Its easy to think of many complexities in how to interpret the law, which is clearly written in such a catch all way as to criminalize everything at all times, so that the actual enforcement is down to discretion not a precise law or case prescient.

Example.. Someone is a global travel video blogger, they have videos from Peru, China, India, Turkey.. all making them advert revenue.. They step off the plane, the second they do so, their adverts are paying them money, but are they working ?? I mean how many tourists are still getting holiday pay while coming here just the same, are you saying they are all working ?? Because their past work is making revenue ?? The hypothetical videos they made, were made and edited outside the kingdom, in the past, isnt revenue from them simply like revenue from rental property outside the country, you dont need a work permit to own property overseas do you ?? So how about they start recording a video while in Thailand, are you saying a tourist cant make a holiday video ?? What about as long they dont upload it to youtube until after the leave..

You are really telling me you cant see any grey areas in that ?? What is work ?? Is the food blogger taking pictures of his Thai cuisine while on vacation working ?? Even if he doesnt write or upload the blog until he leaves the country ?? No one can photograph a meal without a work permit ??

What is the point where content creation becomes 'work' ?? Is posting to a forum work ?? What if its posting to your own forum ?? What if you have ads on the forum ?? Or what if you have a forum, where other people only post, but you never post, edit, or admin.. In which of these situations is it work ??

So yes.. There are grey areas and hard to define lines.

Thanks, but disagree with you.

In think in almost all cases it is very clear if they're working or not. In your examples: guy stepping of the plane is not working. As a tourist they can make vdo, if they make vdo with intent to make online paying blog it is work. Doesn't matter when they upload. The food blogger making pictures to upload later is working. Posting on a forum: if done work related it is working, I am working atm. If you have a forum: same as if you have a business: do nothing and it is not work, do something, anything, and it is work.

So yes, there are grey areas, but it is IMO far, far clearer than you think.

Now whether or not somebody working runs any risk of getting arrested for it is a completely different story.

[LivinLOS]

Are you claiming the present situation is a grey area for online workers?

Yes in some specific ways.. No in the simplistic resident person working online for income way.

I can list many many ways the law is unsure, I am sure anyone with half a brain can think of many others.

Issues around location at the time of content creation.. Issues around the aspect of residual income from sites or advertising while visiting the kingdom.. Issues around hobby sites or creating youtube videos for fun Etc etc.. Its easy to think of many complexities in how to interpret the law, which is clearly written in such a catch all way as to criminalize everything at all times, so that the actual enforcement is down to discretion not a precise law or case prescient.

Example.. Someone is a global travel video blogger, they have videos from Peru, China, India, Turkey.. all making them advert revenue.. They step off the plane, the second they do so, their adverts are paying them money, but are they working ?? I mean how many tourists are still getting holiday pay while coming here just the same, are you saying they are all working ?? Because their past work is making revenue ?? The hypothetical videos they made, were made and edited outside the kingdom, in the past, isnt revenue from them simply like revenue from rental property outside the country, you dont need a work permit to own property overseas do you ?? So how about they start recording a video while in Thailand, are you saying a tourist cant make a holiday video ?? What about as long they dont upload it to youtube until after the leave..

You are really telling me you cant see any grey areas in that ?? What is work ?? Is the food blogger taking pictures of his Thai cuisine while on vacation working ?? Even if he doesnt write or upload the blog until he leaves the country ?? No one can photograph a meal without a work permit ??

What is the point where content creation becomes 'work' ?? Is posting to a forum work ?? What if its posting to your own forum ?? What if you have ads on the forum ?? Or what if you have a forum, where other people only post, but you never post, edit, or admin.. In which of these situations is it work ??

So yes.. There are grey areas and hard to define lines.

Thanks, but disagree with you.

In think in almost all cases it is very clear if they're working or not. In your examples: guy stepping of the plane is not working. As a tourist they can make vdo, if they make vdo with intent to make online paying blog it is work. Doesn't matter when they upload. The food blogger making pictures to upload later is working. Posting on a forum: if done work related it is working, I am working atm. If you have a forum: same as if you have a business: do nothing and it is not work, do something, anything, and it is work.

So yes, there are grey areas, but it is IMO far, far clearer than you think.

Now whether or not somebody working runs any risk of getting arrested for it is a completely different story.

I disagree as the purpose of the law is to provide to the public (and police and judges) a clear legal boundary.. Saying I know it when I see it, is a cop out and doesnt set guidelines people can be confident in.

I am surprised you see the person stepping off the plane as not working.. That would mean anyone who has built a web enterprise that creates residual advertising going forward can simply stay here on that income and its not seen as an online business.

The boundaries between hobby activity and working activity are very hard to define.. One example is some of my friends are into UAV (drone) recording.. They have these drones and headsets and fly them about making videos.. Those videos go onto youtube.. They do this for fun.. Yet youtube will serve up adverts and pay them money. For most of them, the cost of the equipment they have bought is much larger than the revenue the ads make, so they are still losing money to do their hobby, but what if they happen to make one that goes globally viral, and it suddenly outside of their control, starts making actual money ??

Half a million views in a month or two..

Does this mean everyone needs a work permit to upload to youtube in case it makes money later ??

One person (who is a photographer outside Thailand) made a really good one.. I know other people who are media professionals who have made insanely good 'Thailand promos' of their holidays.. The kind of gold the TAT should be paying for.. Is it work just because your good at it ??

That has over 300,000 views in under one year.. A video like that can produce solid revenue.. Was it done for that reason ?? Is it a holiday vid ?? Is it just showing their creativity ??

EDIT :: No idea why that doesnt embed, precisely the same link formatting as the other 2.

I personally know this guy also.. Tho its amazing to see how much consumer camera equipment has jumped in only 4 years !!

Is what these guys are doing in these links, this kind of new media creativity, work ??

And if so, how is it any different than some tourist with an iPhone, uploading to facebook or youtube except for the fact they are better at it ??

Edited July 28, 2014 by LivinLOS

[Johnniey]

Thailand could just remove the age criteria on the retirement visa. Simple.

Or they could follow the lead of PI with their smile visa:

http://www.pra.gov.ph/main/srrv_program?page=1

It would be rather strange if teenagers lived here on retirement visas

Why...if they have 800K THB on deposit the same as the old farts?

The only people who would disagree to this are the old farts who would never get a girl if young handsome go getters were given the same rights as the over 50 crowd receive.

Never get a girl? Under 50s still have their faculties and don't marry bargirls.

Plenty for the codgers.

[Johnniey]

Are you claiming the present situation is a grey area for online workers?

Yes in some specific ways.. No in the simplistic resident person working online for income way.

I can list many many ways the law is unsure, I am sure anyone with half a brain can think of many others.

Issues around location at the time of content creation.. Issues around the aspect of residual income from sites or advertising while visiting the kingdom.. Issues around hobby sites or creating youtube videos for fun Etc etc.. Its easy to think of many complexities in how to interpret the law, which is clearly written in such a catch all way as to criminalize everything at all times, so that the actual enforcement is down to discretion not a precise law or case prescient.

Example.. Someone is a global travel video blogger, they have videos from Peru, China, India, Turkey.. all making them advert revenue.. They step off the plane, the second they do so, their adverts are paying them money, but are they working ?? I mean how many tourists are still getting holiday pay while coming here just the same, are you saying they are all working ?? Because their past work is making revenue ?? The hypothetical videos they made, were made and edited outside the kingdom, in the past, isnt revenue from them simply like revenue from rental property outside the country, you dont need a work permit to own property overseas do you ?? So how about they start recording a video while in Thailand, are you saying a tourist cant make a holiday video ?? What about as long they dont upload it to youtube until after the leave..

You are really telling me you cant see any grey areas in that ?? What is work ?? Is the food blogger taking pictures of his Thai cuisine while on vacation working ?? Even if he doesnt write or upload the blog until he leaves the country ?? No one can photograph a meal without a work permit ??

What is the point where content creation becomes 'work' ?? Is posting to a forum work ?? What if its posting to your own forum ?? What if you have ads on the forum ?? Or what if you have a forum, where other people only post, but you never post, edit, or admin.. In which of these situations is it work ??

So yes.. There are grey areas and hard to define lines.

Thanks, but disagree with you.

In think in almost all cases it is very clear if they're working or not. In your examples: guy stepping of the plane is not working. As a tourist they can make vdo, if they make vdo with intent to make online paying blog it is work. Doesn't matter when they upload. The food blogger making pictures to upload later is working. Posting on a forum: if done work related it is working, I am working atm. If you have a forum: same as if you have a business: do nothing and it is not work, do something, anything, and it is work.

So yes, there are grey areas, but it is IMO far, far clearer than you think.

Now whether or not somebody working runs any risk of getting arrested for it is a completely different story.

I disagree as the purpose of the law is to provide to the public (and police and judges) a clear legal boundary.. Saying I know it when I see it, is a cop out and doesnt set guidelines people can be confident in.

I am surprised you see the person stepping off the plane as not working.. That would mean anyone who has built a web enterprise that creates residual advertising going forward can simply stay here on that income and its not seen as an online business.

The boundaries between hobby activity and working activity are very hard to define.. One example is some of my friends are into UAV (drone) recording.. They have these drones and headsets and fly them about making videos.. Those videos go onto youtube.. They do this for fun.. Yet youtube will serve up adverts and pay them money. For most of them, the cost of the equipment they have bought is much larger than the revenue the ads make, so they are still losing money to do their hobby, but what if they happen to make one that goes globally viral, and it suddenly outside of their control, starts making actual money ??

Half a million views in a month or two..

Does this mean everyone needs a work permit to upload to youtube in case it makes money later ??

One person (who is a photographer outside Thailand) made a really good one.. I know other people who are media professionals who have made insanely good 'Thailand promos' of their holidays.. The kind of gold the TAT should be paying for.. Is it work just because your good at it ??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYX5GfkXvmQ

That has over 300,000 views in under one year.. A video like that can produce solid revenue.. Was it done for that reason ?? Is it a holiday vid ?? Is it just showing their creativity ??

EDIT :: No idea why that doesnt embed, precisely the same link formatting as the other 2.

I personally know this guy also.. Tho its amazing to see how much consumer camera equipment has jumped in only 4 years !!

Is what these guys are doing in these links, this kind of new media creativity, work ??

And if so, how is it any different than some tourist with an iPhone, uploading to facebook or youtube except for the fact they are better at it ??

There should be a nerd visa.

[LivinLOS]

There should be a nerd visa.

Isnt that all that digital nomads are asking for ??

Really tho.. People seem to think this stuff is black and white.. But making money from creative arts like this is much less clear, that is unless you want to criminalize every tourist who uploads a picture or video.

[stevenl]

@ LivingLos: in your first line you are saying "I disagree as the purpose of the law is to provide to the public (and police and judges) a clear legal boundary..", but you disagree with what? Nothing I say indicates there are no clear bounderies. I presume you're referring to the risk of getting arrested, but as I'm sure even you'll agree there is a big difference between crossing a boundery and running the risk of getting arrested.

If the person stepping of the plane is not doing any activities towards his website, how can he be seen working?

But since your main purpose here seems to be to disagree with whatever some official comes up with, really with all official rules, there really is no point.

Edited July 28, 2014 by stevenl

[LivinLOS]

@ LivingLos: in your first line you are saying "I disagree as the purpose of the law is to provide to the public (and police and judges) a clear legal boundary..", but you disagree with what? Nothing I say indicates there are no clear bounderies. I presume you're referring to the risk of getting arrested, but as I'm sure even you'll agree there is a big difference between crossing a boundery and running the risk of getting arrested.

Yes thats why I bolded that part.. Current work definitions make every action both physical and mental work.. As thats plainly silly, then you have to try to define what it is they really mean.

And yes, I think there are many hobby or artistic pursuits which can be easily confused with work..

I would argue that a far better definition would be "performing an activity for commercial gain" as this then seperates hobbys and passtimes, even when money is involved, from what I think is meant by work. Yet this isnt the law of the land (and also makes volunteering without work permit legal instead of its current status.

If the person stepping of the plane is not doing any activities towards his website, how can he be seen working?

Because some seem to mix up earning an income from something with working..

I still dont have any idea if uploading a youtube video with ads turned on requires a work permit ??

[LivinLOS]

But since your main purpose here seems to be to disagree with whatever some official comes up with, really with all official rules, there really is no point.

Is it really so much to expect legal status to be clear, precise, and have logical boundaries and standards ?? I dont think it is and case law should be available to help assist in the evolution of such boundaries.

[LPCustom69]

Thailand could just remove the age criteria on the retirement visa. Simple.

Or they could follow the lead of PI with their smile visa:

http://www.pra.gov.ph/main/srrv_program?page=1

It would be rather strange if teenagers lived here on retirement visas

Why...if they have 800K THB on deposit the same as the old farts?

The only people who would disagree to this are the old farts who would never get a girl if young handsome go getters were given the same rights as the over 50 crowd receive.

Never get a girl? Under 50s still have their faculties and don't marry bargirls.

Plenty for the codgers.

So, it is just about the girls. At least your honest.

Sounds like many can't get a girl unless they're in Thailand.

There is an easy option, just get an elite card. It's good for 5 years.

Edited July 28, 2014 by LPCustom69