Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[camerata]

Since nobody has done it before, here's my guide to the Permanent Resident application process in 2004:

Disclaimer

These are my personal experiences as a single guy living in rented accommodation in Bangkok and working for a Thai company. The details of the process differ from year to year, from province to province, and according to the applicant's situation and reason for applying. This is a guide, not the bible.

Do you need a lawyer?

It doesn't make any difference to Immigration if you use a lawyer or not. It doesn't make you look better or worse. But it does affect the process a little.

A legal firm with experience in PR applications should be able to give you useful advice on how to provide a "portfolio" showing your contribution to society, ensure all your Thai-language company documents are correct and complete, handle translation of documents, and save you some running around. Your own company lawyer - if you have one - can probably help with everything except the portfolio.

If you hire a legal firm, it will probably consider the approval of your application to be the end of the process. If you want them to help you with the various steps after approval, you'd better put that in the written agreement so it's understood by all. If you hand over a lot of documents to them, make a list and get them to sign for them in case any go missing.

Myths

You don't need to be married to obtain PR. There are minimum salary guidelines for each nationality, but these aren't written down and they aren't set in stone. In some circumstances you can apply if you fall short of the minimum salary.

Preparation and documents

First, go to Immigration (Room 301 at the Suan Phlu Office in Bangkok - now changed to Section D of the new office in Chaeng Wattana Road*), tell them which category you are applying in (Investment, Work/Business, Humanitarian, Expert) and request the appropriate documents. They'll give you a sheet "Detailed Information Needed for Residence Permit Applications," TM.9 Application for Permanent Residence, a Personal Information sheet, a sheet titled "Documents required when applying for a residence permit in the category of [whatever you requested]," a sample medical certificate and a sample form for submitting Thai-language maps of your home and workplace.

Many of the 20 documents listed are related to your employer, work and tax record for the previous 3 years and must have been signed (or issued) within 3 months of making your application. Some documents must be translated into Thai and certified by your embassy. Educational certificates must be translated into Thai and certified by the Foreign Ministry.

Others documents on the list include:

(2) a medical certificate as per their official sample (the one that declares you free from syphilis and elephantiasis) issued by a hospital in the 3 months prior to the application date.

(3) certificate of no criminal record from your "domicile" and certified by your embassy. This means the country whose passport you are currently using, and you need to apply direct to your country's police for this. If your country has criminal record checks with and without fingerprints, you'll probably need the one with fingerprint check. Immigration can do the fingerprints for you free of charge (Room 301). If your country has federal and state record checks, you'll need the federal one. Expect this to take 3-8 weeks in Western countries but it could take up to 3 months.

(17) maps in Thai language of your place of residence and work (if applicable).

(19) "Personal Information sheet and the applicant's portfolio, which includes detailed information about family background, knowledge and ability, working experience, special ability, social work, work place, residence together with photo (using the A4 document folder)."

The photos required are of the exterior and interior of your home and workplace. It might be a good idea to have yourself in the photos too.

The portfolio depends on what you have available. The purpose of the portfolio is to establish that you are an upstanding citizen who is unlikely to get into financial or other trouble in the future. Anything that portrays you as a somebody, as someone who is a cut above the rest or as financially secure is worth submitting. Some suggestions:

* Complete resume going back to school.

* Letter to Immigration from yourself detailing your contribution to Thai society.

* Documents supporting your contribution to society.

* Reference letters from senior Thais supporting your good character and application. Obviously, the more senior or well-known, the better. Give your referees a template letter in Thai to make it easier for them.

* Membership of charitable organizations.

* Membership of non-profit organizations, such as chambers of commerce.

* Newspaper clippings mentioning you or written by you. Any publications written by you.

* Certificates or diplomas.

* Copies of bank books, certificates of transferring money into Thailand, share certificates, pension records, provident fund records, condo ownership and other assets.

Applying

Immigration is open for applications from about mid-December until the last working day of the year. Only two weeks. You take your file in and an officer will check the documents. Quite likely there will be something that needs correcting or updating, but from now on you deal with this officer so it's easier to get questions answered. You'll also get your fingerprints taken at this point.

The officer will give you an appointment sheet with details of the date and time for your interview and Thai-language test in March or April and tell you to bring along your annual Income Tax return (Por Ngor Dor 90/91) and company tax documents for December. This officer isn't a total expert on documentation, so don't be surprised if you get requests for corrected/updated documents right up until June the following year.

The Interview

In my case, the officer who interviewed me was the same one who accepted my application and documents 4 months before, so things were pretty relaxed and friendly. I had a young lawyer with me. Since I speak Thai pretty well, the whole discussion was in Thai. Mostly it was about the documents, my background, and the PR process. Every now and again a question came right out of the blue, like "What religion are you?" So I got the impression my Thai language skills and general demeanour were being examined. The officer typed on a PC the whole time.

After the discussion, she printed out a long statement (in Thai) from the computer, asked the lawyer to read it to me and explain anything I didn't understand, and then we both had to sign it. The document was a long series of statements such as, "I explained to the applicant that after receiving notice of a successful application, he must come to the Immigration office within 30 days. The applicant said he understood." In fact, some of the statements hadn't been made in the interview.

After we'd signed, she asked the lawyer to leave. Then she gave me a sheet of 10 multiple answer questions written in Thai. Since I don't read Thai very well at all, she read the questions and the answers, pointing at the ABCD answers as she read them. Some of the answers had little pictures which made them easier. With some of them, you could tell just from the answers which was the odd one out, even if you didn't understand the question.

Some of the questions were pretty easy, some required a basic knowledge of Thailand (How many provinces there are, etc), and one was about the PR process (i.e. the stuff I had signed in the statement). The only problem I had was that the questions were phrased in formal written Thai style rather than the spoken Thai I'm used to. If I didn't understand the question, it was pretty easy to figure out the question from the answers.

The test doesn't take long. After that, you go into a partitioned area and introduce yourself in Thai while they record it on camera. It looked like an ordinary Sony still camera to me, so the video mode would probably not be more than a couple of minutes. I kept my intro short, but I was asked a couple of questions after I finished.

Approval letter

I received my approval letter 16 months after making the application. The letter is in Thai but there are separate instructions in English on what documents you need to get the Certificate of Residence (you must do this within 30 days):

1. Original and copy of passport (certified true copy by you)

2. Original and copy of the House Registration book of your residence (certified true copy by the owner) and details of the local police station whose jurisdiction it is in. You will be put on this House Registration later.

3. 12 4x6cm photos not more than 3 months old.

4. Fee of 191,400 baht (if single) or 95,700 baht if the spouse of Thai national or PR holder paid in cash or by cashier's cheque (in Bangkok only). A copy of any cashier's cheque.

Picking up the Certificate of Residence

When you go to Immigration they give you a sheet "Procedures in obtaining the Certificate of Residence (TM.16)" that describes most of the following procedures. In Bangkok they will take you to Room 202 and you'll never deal with Room 301 again.*

You pay the fee, give them 4 photos, have your thumbprint taken and give some information that will be forwarded to your local police and end up in your Alien Registration book. They will take the embarkation form out of your passport and write the details (i.e. flight number) of your last entry into Thailand on it. Then they'll stamp your passport with details of the Certificate of Residence. At some point in this process they will decide how to spell your name in Thai and may not ask you about it. If you want it spelt correctly, find some diplomatic way of giving it to them early on. You pick up your Certificate of Residence (actually a book) the next day and take it plus the letter they give you to your local police station. You must do this within 7 days of submitting your documents, not 7 days from receiving the Residence Certificate.

Obtaining the Alien Registration Book

You take the Residence Book and the letter they give you to the police, along with 4 photos, tabien baan (House Registration book), and copies of your passport, Residence Book and tabien baan. Plus the police will need the names of your mother and father in Thai script. Pay 400 baht for the current year and 800 baht for the next 5 years. Pick up the Alien Registration book a couple of weeks later. Then start the process to get put on the tabien baan.

Being put on a House Registration book

You apply at your district office to be put on a tabien baan. You'll probably deal with someone senior and have to provide copies of passport, tabien baan, Residence Book and Alien Book. There is no charge at all. After submitting the documents, they give you a letter which you take back to Immigration and make an appointment to go back to the district office. Immigration then gives you another letter which you take back to the district office.

For the second interview at the district office you need two Thais to act as witnesses. One will normally be the owner of your residence. The officer will ask you all a lot of detailed questions (how you know the witnesses, what's your blood group, etc) and write out an interview form for each of you, to which he'll add your photo and thumbprint and send them to the Interior Ministry "as evidence." Then you are put on the tabien baan and have reached the end of the process.

Traveling outside Thailand

Before taking a trip outside Thailand you must apply for a 1-year endorsement of your Residence Book (1,900 baht) and a re-entry ("non-quota Immigrant") visa in your passport (1,900 baht single, 3,800 baht multiple) valid for one year.

What you get

(Certificate of Residence and Alien Registration Book)

Benefits of Permanent Residence

1. No need to leave the country within 7 days if employment is terminated.
   
2. No need to extend or renew any visa, or report your address every 90 days. But you do have to obtain a re-entry visa if you go out of the country.
   
3. Allowed to buy a condominium without having to remit funds from abroad.
   
4. Entitled to apply for citizenship after 5 years.
   
5. Entitled to be appointed a director of a public limited company even if the majority of other directors on the Board are non-Thai.
   
6. Supposedly easier to obtain a work permit.
   
7. Allowed to go through the "Thai passports only" channel at airport Immigration.
   

"Disadvantages" of Permanent Residence

When applying for a Thai driving licence, they will insist you have a valid re-entry visa in your passport and residence book, even if you are not intending to go out of the country. They will require your house registration certificate and include your unique 13-digit number on the driving licence. Many banks and hotels act like they've never seen an Alien's Registration book before and may insist on seeing your passport, perhaps because the Alien's Book doesn't contain your name in English.

Updates from members in this topic

1. Please see the latest (Dec 2009) information and documents from the Immigration Department. Many minor requirements have changed.
   
2. The Bangkok Immigration Bureau moved to Chaeng Wattana Road on October 1, 2009
   
3. The health certificate must be from a government hospital and a blood test for syphilis may be required.
   
4. Tax receipts may need to be certified by the Revenue Dept.
   
5. You may need a letter of guarantee from the Labour dept.
   
6. You must appear in the photos of your workplace and residence.
   
7. You may need to produce your salary slips for the last 2 years.
   
8. If you have a child, you will need to take a DNA paternity test.
   
9. If you are married to a Thai, an Immigration officer will come to your residence to verify that you are in fact married and cohabiting.
   
10. Since 2007 the Thai-language test is a panel asking the applicant questions, but the questions are simple and the panel friendly. See this member's experience of the interview in 2011.
    
11. As of April 2012, the 2006 applicants were still waiting for their final approval. The process can get delayed due to political instability.
    

[Pink Mist]

Good information and worth pinning

[sabaijai]

Outstanding, Camerata. One question I have is, do you have to apply for PR at the immigration branch office nearest your residence? For example can a Chiang Mai resident apply in Bangkok or vice versa?

[camerata]

Apparently upcountry residents can apply in Bangkok. The legal firm I hired was handling a case like that. But I wonder where your file would end up at the end of the process and if you would have to apply for future endorsements and re-entries in Bangkok?

[camerata]

Something I forgot to mention is that when applying for PR you are given a 6-month extension visa, which is followed by 3-month extensions until the application is approved or rejected. But you can ask for 6-month extensions and that will save you a work permit renewal each time. Make a point of seeing the same officer you dealt with before and asking for 6 months.

There is some good information about PR requirements at http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/do...tion4extend.doc dated December 2003. It gives a good idea of how they intended the system to work, complete with a disclaimer at the end saying that even if you fulfill all the requirements they can still reject you and don't have to tell you the reason.

[waltik]

What is the benefit of having PR? I see that you still have to pay for re-entry. Can you buy land at least?

[GoodHeart]

Could you elaborate on "contribution to Thai society." What would suffice?

[camerata]

What is the benefit of having PR? I see that you still have to pay for re-entry. Can you buy land at least?

Check the Benefits of PR topic to see what people think about this. For me, the main benefit is the status change. You don't have to leave the country within 7 days if you lose your job, and you don't have to worry about the requirements for a retirement visa when you retire. Your status in Thailand is no longer tied to your work permit and you don't have to extend a visa each year or report your address every 90 days.

Other benefits are that you can buy a condo without importing the money from overseas and you can sit on the board of a public company.

[skippybangkok]

Good post..... does any one have any idea about the last batch status ? ( dec 2005 applied ) ?

[camerata]

Could you elaborate on "contribution to Thai society." What would suffice?

Immigration has never given any details, so it's up to the applicant. I would say membership of an organization involved in charitable activities (Rotary Club, etc) or maybe a record of donations over 5,000 baht to charities or temples (temples can give an official receipt) would be useful.

For many applicants I think the reference letters are a substitute for social contribution. I can't imagine many expat businessmen have a significant social contribution if they've only been in the country 3-4 years.

[GoodHeart]

Thank you, for a very informative thread.

[skippybangkok]

Update:- Was at immigration yesterday for the PR Visa extension, they said next month is the big meeting..... not signed off on, but I think after that if is sent for final approval.

[trajan]

good luck skippy.....by the way in the interview questions (in front of a camera) if they ask you what the Thai National Day ("Wan Chart") is, answer December 5th (the King's Birthday), not December 10th (Constitution Day)...that's the only question I got wrong.....

[trajan]

Certificate of Residence

I filled-up my book (with exit and entry stamps) and applied for a new one...they said it will be white color from now on....is there any significance to that??

[skippybangkok]

Lol....questions we easy......

[FOURX]

Can anyone recommend an experienced immigration lawyer based in Bangkok that can assist me with the process of applying for permanent residency. Having done some basic research on the topic I believe I have a quite reasonable liklihood of success and therefore want an "above board" lawyer rather than one that make seek to involve some under the table deal.

[Arkady]

I knew some one about 10 years ago who claimed his application was facilitated by a B300k deposit made in cash to the sister of a police general. He said it was a lot of trouble getting introduced to the right person and organising the gratuity, as they were very scared of foreigners blowing the whistle on them, but once it was done he only had two interviews of five minutes each and no requests for further documents. I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this story but it seems quite possible. However, I assume there is more competition amongst Chinese and Indian applicants as there are usually more than the country quota of 100 applicants, so they are more likely to look for ways to bribe their way in than farangs who never bang up against their country's quota.

For those going through the front door, which is most, testimonials from civil servants, specially senior policemen, are worth a lot more than those from businessmen, academics etc however prominent the latter may be. Apart from the police and of course Immigration itself the most useful would be senior officials from the Interior Ministry, Tourist Authority of Thailand, Labor Ministry, National Intelligence Agency. This because they sit on the committee for permance residence that decides on your application, assuming you were not turned down at Immigration without referral to the committee. I think the most important thing is working for a large company in Thailand with lots of paid up capital that pays a lot of tax. I have known people working for large firms get it without difficulty when their testimonials and evidence of contribution to Thai society looked weak to me. But these are critical if you work for a small company. If it is your own B2 million company, most of these are automatically rejected, so up your capital to at least B5 million before your apply and raise your own salary to at least B150k a month before your apply. You can always drop again afterwards.

In addition to the benefits already mentioned you are allowed to apply for a gun permit which I am not advocating anyone does but just so as you know. More importanly anything you normally need a work permit for e.g. opening a bank account, buying a car, you can do as a permanent resident without having to show a work permit.

[krismat89]

Hi there, l was awarded a Residency Permit last year! If anyone one wants any tips then let me know... It takes alot of patience, lots of interviews, tests, VDO interviews etc etc, ........Good luck.

[krismat89]

I was granted residency last year. Excellent instructions given here, and to let you know that l was working in Phuket at the time, but it was advised to apply personally in Bangkok (together with your lawyer). Phuket Immigration were very helpful, but advised it easier due to the number of times you will have to visit for paperwork, interview, Thai language test etc etc.

Best bet, get a good lawyer, apply here in Bangkok but make sure that you have paid up in full your monthly and income tax payments, ready to apply for a 'criminal record' in your home country and a bit of advise would be to let your Embassy know in advance and get a contact who can help you when you require to obtain certain certificates from your home country.

Good luck !

[camerata]

and a bit of advise would be to let your Embassy know in advance and get a contact who can help you when you require to obtain certain certificates from your home country.

Good luck !

Which certificates can an embassy help to obtain? When I did PR, all the embassy did for me was certify that my photocopies of certificates were in fact real copies, and charge me over a thousand baht for each one. They are used to doing this and there is no need to contact them in advance.

[WormFarmer]

I got my PR early this year. One piece of advice I would give is, when you return to immigration having received your approval letter, to give an address in Bangkok for your registration in the house papers. I had intended to give the up-country address of my wife to immediately put my name on her house papers, but a helpful immigration officer warned me not to do this because the Alien Registration book (the red book) is issued by the police station covering the address and very few up-country police stations hold blank red books, let alone know how to fill them in. As a result of this advice I

(1) gave the address of a Thai friend in Bangkok,

(2) got my Blue Book issued by immigration in Suan Plu with that address on,

(3) went along to the local police station down Sathorn Road where they issued my red Book within a day,

(4) went to the BMA district office with my Thai house-owning friend and got put on her house paper,

(5) two weeks later went to the same office with her and said I was moving up-country, they issued me with a piece of paper giving my details,

(6) took said piece of paper to the Amphur office where my wife's house is and got put onto her house paper, this automatically cancelled me from the Bangkok house paper, via their computer network.

(7) went to local police station and registered my name and red book there.

Most of that went without any undue hassle or tea money. Some moves involved in the transfer of name from one house paper in Bangkok to one up-country required short waits whilst the officials checked their manuals to see how to do it for a farang PR.

I hope this helps any one else who might otherwise give an up-country address only to find that the up-country offices can't process it.

[pascharay]

The PR visa is available to 100 applicant for each nationality

If you're UK citizen then it might be hard.

Irish less so

Iceland now we're in the running

guatemalan a lock if you can pass all the huddles

[pascharay]

Of course then there's the plain P visa which is prison and that alows you to stay here without any applications, documetns, or payments.

[Tywais]

The PR visa is available to 100 applicant for each nationality

If you're UK citizen then it might be hard.

Irish less so

Iceland now we're in the running

guatemalan a lock if you can pass all the huddles

Just a repeat of a post I did before.

---------------------------------------------------

And I would say that a quota limit of 100 is not an issue for US or UK. The following is from the immigration site for accepted PR in 2004.

"The list of 169 applicants who applied residential permit in year 2004 (quota) and the list of the 11 applicants of residential permit (non-quota) passed the preliminary consideration of the Immigration Commission and also approval of The Minister of Interior in March,3 2006"

I converted the Word document to an html page that you can see here: PR Granted 2004

[AmeriThai]

Just a repeat of a post I did before.

---------------------------------------------------

And I would say that a quota limit of 100 is not an issue for US or UK. The following is from the immigration site for accepted PR in 2004.

"The list of 169 applicants who applied residential permit in year 2004 (quota) and the list of the 11 applicants of residential permit (non-quota) passed the preliminary consideration of the Immigration Commission and also approval of The Minister of Interior in March,3 2006"

I converted the Word document to an html page that you can see here: PR Granted 2004

I was surprised to see only a handful from the US applied for PR. I would've guessed those (from the US) wanting to apply, (I should say those whose apps qualified) would've easily reached the max of 100 applicants/country/year. Evidently my guess wasn't even close. Thanks Tywais for including the html page.

[krismat89]

The PR visa is available to 100 applicant for each nationality

If you're UK citizen then it might be hard.

Irish less so

Iceland now we're in the running

guatemalan a lock if you can pass all the huddles

Yes, that is quite true. I am a UK citizen and only 12 were issued PR in the year l applied out of the full quota...

[krismat89]

and a bit of advise would be to let your Embassy know in advance and get a contact who can help you when you require to obtain certain certificates from your home country.

Good luck !

Which certificates can an embassy help to obtain? When I did PR, all the embassy did for me was certify that my photocopies of certificates were in fact real copies, and charge me over a thousand baht for each one. They are used to doing this and there is no need to contact them in advance.

I found the Embassy very useful when you are required to obtain your 'Criminal Record' which cannot be issued here in Thailand but back in the UK only. The Embassy gave full details of who to contact and where back in the UK, time frame required to obtain the letter.

[camerata]

I found the Embassy very useful when you are required to obtain your 'Criminal Record' which cannot be issued here in Thailand but back in the UK only. The Embassy gave full details of who to contact and where back in the UK, time frame required to obtain the letter.

I wish my embassy had done the same. But I was able to find the info with a quick google.

[AsiaMB]

Could you elaborate on "contribution to Thai society." What would suffice?

Immigration has never given any details, so it's up to the applicant. I would say membership of an organization involved in charitable activities (Rotary Club, etc) or maybe a record of donations over 5,000 baht to charities or temples (temples can give an official receipt) would be useful.

For many applicants I think the reference letters are a substitute for social contribution. I can't imagine many expat businessmen have a significant social contribution if they've only been in the country 3-4 years.

IF you get the interview questions wrong, does that mean you dont get approved ?

[Tywais]

I have converted the word document of the PR requirements from Camerata's original link to an html page for convenience. You can see it here: PR Requirements

There were a couple of posts suggesting that the 3M Baht investment visa (1-year extensions) used to be 10M. I believe that may have been confused with one of the allowed options for PR.