Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Arkady]

I recently heard some slightly disturbing news that the Labour Ministry now requires PR holders to have four Thai employees, just like everyone else. I hope this is not true, as it is or used to be a handy privilege for those running their own small companies not to have to produce fake Thai employees, pay their social security tax and show where they sit in the office. Lord knows, we have precious few privileges and having to get a work permit at all after being granted permanent residence is already ridiculous in the extreme. I go into more detail in another thread about the new rules for work permits introduced mid year:

Seems very odd (unless your comments specifically apply to PR holders owning businesses) not least because not all PR are employers.Most of those I know are employees themselves so the question of having Thai employees doesn't arise.

This would probably apply mainly to people working in self-owned businesses but could apply to PRs working in any small business. Without the need for four Thai employees, you could, for example, legally work for a small business that already has two expats and eight Thai staff without having to add another four Thais, although I think you still need an additional Bt 2 million in paid-up capital. Many people have got their PR while working for a large company and later want to do their own thing and should be allowed flexibility in this, once a life time visa with the automatic assumption under the Immigration Act that they are working and will continue to work, has been approved.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

I notice one month has passed since the last post.

An angel passes... (a wet one).

[tombkk]

I just went to the old immigration office at Soi Suan Plu to get an extension of stay based on business. I saw that they also have a desk there for Residency Permit.

Just for info, in case anybody needs to contact them in person as long as Chaeng Wattana is only reachable by boat.

Edited November 9, 2011 by tombkk

[pablomeng]

Does anyone know if this year they will open for applying? Hoping they will this year =(

[SaNim]

Has anybody heard if they are open for applications this year?

[skyaslimit]

The interior ministry is so much busy in current flooding situation that the PR thing will be the last on their priority list, plus the previous applications are in pending so it seems they don't want to announce new PRs until the all the previous applicants are cleared.

[jayboy]

I wonder if anyone familiar with PR could kindly help with the following question.

I understand each year the PR holder has to go to Immigration to get endorsements for passport and certificate of residence IF he wishes to travel abroad.In the passport this would be shown as a multiple entry visa valid for one year.

If the visa had to be utilised before (say) 30 June but the PR holder didn't need to travel until (say) September could the process at Immigration be delayed until just before the date of travel?

[Time Traveller]

The interior ministry is so much busy in current flooding situation that the PR thing will be the last on their priority list, plus the previous applications are in pending so it seems they don't want to announce new PRs until the all the previous applicants are cleared.

Well sure. But what's their excuse for the last 5 years of inaction? Still people are awaiting their PR from 2006, and they haven't been any new applications since 2009

Edited December 3, 2011 by Time Traveller

[CMexpat]

I wonder if anyone familiar with PR could kindly help with the following question.

I understand each year the PR holder has to go to Immigration to get endorsements for passport and certificate of residence IF he wishes to travel abroad.In the passport this would be shown as a multiple entry visa valid for one year.

If the visa had to be utilised before (say) 30 June but the PR holder didn't need to travel until (say) September could the process at Immigration be delayed until just before the date of travel?

If a holder of a PR wishes to travel abroad he/she would have to get a re-entry in his passport and PR. This ensures that upon your return to Thailand you can continue your stay in the country on this PR visa. If you apply for a single or multiple depends on how often you plan to travel. Important to know is that the re-entry is valid for a maximum of one year.

There is no need to delay the process until just before travel. If you have your passport stamped with a re-entry say on the second of December you could leave Thailand anytime and return until the first of December next year. If you do not have a valid re-entry they would stamp you a tourist visa in your passport when you return.

[jayboy]

If a holder of a PR wishes to travel abroad he/she would have to get a re-entry in his passport and PR. This ensures that upon your return to Thailand you can continue your stay in the country on this PR visa. If you apply for a single or multiple depends on how often you plan to travel. Important to know is that the re-entry is valid for a maximum of one year.

There is no need to delay the process until just before travel. If you have your passport stamped with a re-entry say on the second of December you could leave Thailand anytime and return until the first of December next year. If you do not have a valid re-entry they would stamp you a tourist visa in your passport when you return.

Thanks for this

[skyaslimit]

The interior ministry is so much busy in current flooding situation that the PR thing will be the last on their priority list, plus the previous applications are in pending so it seems they don't want to announce new PRs until the all the previous applicants are cleared.

Well sure. But what's their excuse for the last 5 years of inaction? Still people are awaiting their PR from 2006, and they haven't been any new applications since 2009

You know what, I asked the immigration officer on duty the same question last time I was there for my 6 month stamp and her simple answer was " hey all the pending applicants are getting their regular extensions of 6 months for years with out paying the visa renwal fee of 1900 bhats per extention per person (1900 bhats x 2 times per yr. x 1000 pending applicants = which equals to several hundred thousand bhats )."

So I keep my fingers crossed

[tombkk]

Has anybody heard if they are open for applications this year?

It's very easy:

1. You intend to apply this year. This means you have all the documents complete and are eager to submit them. This will trigger you to check with immigration directly - please make sure you report your findings back to us!

2. You have not prepared anything yet. This means that even if they accept applications this year, you will be too late getting the docs together. - Why are you asking?

[Time Traveller]

Has anybody heard if they are open for applications this year?

It's very easy:

1. You intend to apply this year. This means you have all the documents complete and are eager to submit them. This will trigger you to check with immigration directly - please make sure you report your findings back to us!

2. You have not prepared anything yet. This means that even if they accept applications this year, you will be too late getting the docs together. - Why are you asking?

typically Applicants would have 90% of the required documents already, and normally are allowed extra time for some of the others.

[tombkk]

Has anybody heard if they are open for applications this year?

It's very easy:

1. You intend to apply this year. This means you have all the documents complete and are eager to submit them. This will trigger you to check with immigration directly - please make sure you report your findings back to us!

2. You have not prepared anything yet. This means that even if they accept applications this year, you will be too late getting the docs together. - Why are you asking?

typically Applicants would have 90% of the required documents already, and normally are allowed extra time for some of the others.

True. But if you have 90% of the docs ready, you will wager a trip to their office rather than wait for a reply on this forum, wouldn't you?

Therefore, I am asking SaNim to advise us whether they accept applications this year.

[SaNim]

I have prepared my documentation.

I am quite busy and could do without o trip out there if not needed.

It would have seemed sensible to ask like minded people if they had been able to make an application.

Tom do you have anything worthwhile to add rather than being argumentative and negative?

[Arkady]

Sadly, it's not looking good for those who planned to apply for PR this year. I think we would have heard by now, if it were going to happen, as the Interior Minister needs approval from a cabinet meeting to establish the year's immigration quotas which has to be announced in the Royal Gazette under the Immigration Act. The cabinet approval usually takes place several weeks before the date for applications.

Another year of shameless silence from the Ministry slips by and all those notarised documents will have to be redone again next year.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Arkady

[sanitex]

hello guys .someone was asking about if they have been started or open for new PR (yes) they do .starting from 23/12/2011

i went to the immigration this morning and asked the PR officer in charge she told me to sumit my document or i should be ready

before this i mentioned if not on 26/12/2011 is the last date for it.

but i was nervous about my statue regarding hiv test but i went to goverment hospital to get screening test ,they ask for siphlis and heart xray

but i don't know if they will ever ask for the test again. please help if any of you have any information .

[Time Traveller]

hello guys .someone was asking about if they have been started or open for new PR (yes) they do .starting from 23/12/2011

i went to the immigration this morning and asked the PR officer in charge she told me to sumit my document or i should be ready

before this i mentioned if not on 26/12/2011 is the last date for it.

but i was nervous about my statue regarding hiv test but i went to goverment hospital to get screening test ,they ask for siphlis and heart xray

but i don't know if they will ever ask for the test again. please help if any of you have any information .

Do you mean they are open for applications for only 2 days?

[sas_cars]

Are you sure is it gonna open? It's been a long silence

[sas_cars]

If they are open, that's indeed a good news. So anybody got a link to the required documents list for this year?

[stbkk]

If they are open, that's indeed a good news. So anybody got a link to the required documents list for this year?

Yes, some good news, at least.

But remember, a lot of us have been waiting since 2006, so don't get too excited, it's just the start of a (long) journey.

[sas_cars]

Yeah indeed. Start of a long journey. But at least you get a free visa for few years and no need to worry about meeting the yearly extension requirements every year. In my opinion, there are just 25 % more additional documents required in addition of the documents which we require for a yearly extension.

[Time Traveller]

Yeah indeed. Start of a long journey. But at least you get a free visa for few years and no need to worry about meeting the yearly extension requirements every year. In my opinion, there are just 25 % more additional documents required in addition of the documents which we require for a yearly extension.

How exactly is it free? You pay an application fee of 7.6k and then another 90k (or 180k depending upon marital status) when it's approved. The yearly extension is only 1.9k

Edited December 21, 2011 by Time Traveller

[Mario2008]

Immigration makes the follwowing anouncement in Thai:

ประกาศสำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมือง เรื่อง การเปิดรับคำขอเพื่อมีถิ่นที่อยู่ในราชอาณาจักร ประจำปี พ.ศ.2554

Google translate:

Office of Immigration announced the opening of applications for residence permit in the year 2554.

With link to PDF-file (in Thai only)

http://www.immigrati...1221_imm_d1.pdf

Given my limited Thai I can't tell you what is said in there.

[Time Traveller]

Immigration makes the follwowing anouncement in Thai:

ประกาศสำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมือง เรื่อง การเปิดรับคำขอเพื่อมีถิ่นที่อยู่ในราชอาณาจักร ประจำปี พ.ศ.2554

Google translate:

Office of Immigration announced the opening of applications for residence permit in the year 2554.

With link to PDF-file (in Thai only)

http://www.immigrati...1221_imm_d1.pdf

Given my limited Thai I can't tell you what is said in there.

Just the usual....namely the Interior Ministry confirmed that applications are open this year with 100 per nationality, and 50 persons without nationality.

The time to accept applications is open from 22 December to 30 December. The place to submit applications is at the Immigration headquarters or your local immigration office AND at overseas Thai embassy or consulates(interesting for people like me who have booked overseas holidays at this time of year!)

The requirments for Quota applicants set out in the Guidelines and conditions for consideration of Residence permit document

The fees. 7600 Baht + 191,400 Baht upon approval (or 95,700 Baht with Thai family or for children)

The requirements to submit T.M. 9 form

The timeline of processing of applications is 180 days ! (I guess they missed a digit on that).

Signed (it appears in a hurry!) by Pol Maj Wiboon, dated 21 Dec.

Rather strange that they even bother opening the applications...for just 8 days over last week in the year when most people are busy at work closing off their books or taking vacations and with the backlog from 2006 also.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Time Traveller

[tombkk]

Good to hear that they open at all again this year. It might be an indication that the whole idea of issuing PRs is back.

[sanitex]

hello guys i am very sorry for repling back it was do to am not use to chat on this forum often ,but

from your question they have started receiving the PR document at the moment .please hurry up and summit yours

thanks for your understanding

[oldlady]

Since nobody has done it before, here's my guide to the Permanent Resident application process in 2004:

Disclaimer

These are my personal experiences as a single guy living in rented accommodation in Bangkok and working for a Thai company. The details of the process differ from year to year, from province to province, and according to the applicant's situation and reason for applying. This is a guide, not the bible.

Do you need a lawyer?

It doesn't make any difference to Immigration if you use a lawyer or not. It doesn't make you look better or worse. But it does affect the process a little.

A legal firm with experience in PR applications should be able to give you useful advice on how to provide a "portfolio" showing your contribution to society, ensure all your Thai-language company documents are correct and complete, handle translation of documents, and save you some running around. Your own company lawyer - if you have one - can probably help with everything except the portfolio.

If you hire a legal firm, it will probably consider the approval of your application to be the end of the process. If you want them to help you with the various steps after approval, you'd better put that in the written agreement so it's understood by all. If you hand over a lot of documents to them, make a list and get them to sign for them in case any go missing.

Myths

You don't need to be married to obtain PR. There are minimum salary guidelines for each nationality, but these aren't written down and they aren't set in stone. In some circumstances you can apply if you fall short of the minimum salary.

Preparation and documents

First, go to Immigration (Room 301 at the Suan Phlu Office in Bangkok - now changed to Section D of the new office in Chaeng Wattana Road*), tell them which category you are applying in (Investment, Work/Business, Humanitarian, Expert) and request the appropriate documents. They'll give you a sheet "Detailed Information Needed for Residence Permit Applications," TM.9 Application for Permanent Residence, a Personal Information sheet, a sheet titled "Documents required when applying for a residence permit in the category of [whatever you requested]," a sample medical certificate and a sample form for submitting Thai-language maps of your home and workplace.

Many of the 20 documents listed are related to your employer, work and tax record for the previous 3 years and must have been signed (or issued) within 3 months of making your application. Some documents must be translated into Thai and certified by your embassy. Educational certificates must be translated into Thai and certified by the Foreign Ministry.

Others documents on the list include:

(2) a medical certificate as per their official sample (the one that declares you free from syphilis and elephantiasis) issued by a hospital in the 3 months prior to the application date.

(3) certificate of no criminal record from your "domicile" and certified by your embassy. This means the country whose passport you are currently using, and you need to apply direct to your country's police for this. If your country has criminal record checks with and without fingerprints, you'll probably need the one with fingerprint check. Immigration can do the fingerprints for you free of charge (Room 301). If your country has federal and state record checks, you'll need the federal one. Expect this to take 3-8 weeks in Western countries but it could take up to 3 months.

(17) maps in Thai language of your place of residence and work (if applicable).

(19) "Personal Information sheet and the applicant's portfolio, which includes detailed information about family background, knowledge and ability, working experience, special ability, social work, work place, residence together with photo (using the A4 document folder)."

The photos required are of the exterior and interior of your home and workplace. It might be a good idea to have yourself in the photos too.

The portfolio depends on what you have available. The purpose of the portfolio is to establish that you are an upstanding citizen who is unlikely to get into financial or other trouble in the future. Anything that portrays you as a somebody, as someone who is a cut above the rest or as financially secure is worth submitting. Some suggestions:

* Complete resume going back to school.

* Letter to Immigration from yourself detailing your contribution to Thai society.

* Documents supporting your contribution to society.

* Reference letters from senior Thais supporting your good character and application. Obviously, the more senior or well-known, the better. Give your referees a template letter in Thai to make it easier for them.

* Membership of charitable organizations.

* Membership of non-profit organizations, such as chambers of commerce.

* Newspaper clippings mentioning you or written by you. Any publications written by you.

* Certificates or diplomas.

* Copies of bank books, certificates of transferring money into Thailand, share certificates, pension records, provident fund records, condo ownership and other assets.

Applying

Immigration is open for applications from about mid-December until the last working day of the year. Only two weeks. You take your file in and an officer will check the documents. Quite likely there will be something that needs correcting or updating, but from now on you deal with this officer so it's easier to get questions answered. You'll also get your fingerprints taken at this point.

The officer will give you an appointment sheet with details of the date and time for your interview and Thai-language test in March or April and tell you to bring along your annual Income Tax return (Por Ngor Dor 90/91) and company tax documents for December. This officer isn't a total expert on documentation, so don't be surprised if you get requests for corrected/updated documents right up until June the following year.

The Interview

In my case, the officer who interviewed me was the same one who accepted my application and documents 4 months before, so things were pretty relaxed and friendly. I had a young lawyer with me. Since I speak Thai pretty well, the whole discussion was in Thai. Mostly it was about the documents, my background, and the PR process. Every now and again a question came right out of the blue, like "What religion are you?" So I got the impression my Thai language skills and general demeanour were being examined. The officer typed on a PC the whole time.

After the discussion, she printed out a long statement (in Thai) from the computer, asked the lawyer to read it to me and explain anything I didn't understand, and then we both had to sign it. The document was a long series of statements such as, "I explained to the applicant that after receiving notice of a successful application, he must come to the Immigration office within 30 days. The applicant said he understood." In fact, some of the statements hadn't been made in the interview.

After we'd signed, she asked the lawyer to leave. Then she gave me a sheet of 10 multiple answer questions written in Thai. Since I don't read Thai very well at all, she read the questions and the answers, pointing at the ABCD answers as she read them. Some of the answers had little pictures which made them easier. With some of them, you could tell just from the answers which was the odd one out, even if you didn't understand the question.

Some of the questions were pretty easy, some required a basic knowledge of Thailand (How many provinces there are, etc), and one was about the PR process (i.e. the stuff I had signed in the statement). The only problem I had was that the questions were phrased in formal written Thai style rather than the spoken Thai I'm used to. If I didn't understand the question, it was pretty easy to figure out the question from the answers.

The test doesn't take long. After that, you go into a partitioned area and introduce yourself in Thai while they record it on camera. It looked like an ordinary Sony still camera to me, so the video mode would probably not be more than a couple of minutes. I kept my intro short, but I was asked a couple of questions after I finished.

Approval letter

I received my approval letter 16 months after making the application. The letter is in Thai but there are separate instructions in English on what documents you need to get the Certificate of Residence (you must do this within 30 days):

1. Original and copy of passport (certified true copy by you)

2. Original and copy of the House Registration book of your residence (certified true copy by the owner) and details of the local police station whose jurisdiction it is in. You will be put on this House Registration later.

3. 12 4x6cm photos not more than 3 months old.

4. Fee of 191,400 baht (if single) or 95,700 baht if the spouse of Thai national or PR holder paid in cash or by cashier's cheque (in Bangkok only). A copy of any cashier's cheque.

Picking up the Certificate of Residence

When you go to Immigration they give you a sheet "Procedures in obtaining the Certificate of Residence (TM.16)" that describes most of the following procedures. In Bangkok they will take you to Room 202 and you'll never deal with Room 301 again.*

You pay the fee, give them 4 photos, have your thumbprint taken and give some information that will be forwarded to your local police and end up in your Alien Registration book. They will take the embarkation form out of your passport and write the details (i.e. flight number) of your last entry into Thailand on it. Then they'll stamp your passport with details of the Certificate of Residence. At some point in this process they will decide how to spell your name in Thai and may not ask you about it. If you want it spelt correctly, find some diplomatic way of giving it to them early on. You pick up your Certificate of Residence (actually a book) the next day and take it plus the letter they give you to your local police station. You must do this within 7 days of submitting your documents, not 7 days from receiving the Residence Certificate.

Obtaining the Alien Registration Book

You take the Residence Book and the letter they give you to the police, along with 4 photos, tabien baan (House Registration book), and copies of your passport, Residence Book and tabien baan. Plus the police will need the names of your mother and father in Thai script. Pay 400 baht for the current year and 800 baht for the next 5 years. Pick up the Alien Registration book a couple of weeks later. Then start the process to get put on the tabien baan.

Being put on a House Registration book

You apply at your district office to be put on a tabien baan. You'll probably deal with someone senior and have to provide copies of passport, tabien baan, Residence Book and Alien Book. There is no charge at all. After submitting the documents, they give you a letter which you take back to Immigration and make an appointment to go back to the district office. Immigration then gives you another letter which you take back to the district office.

For the second interview at the district office you need two Thais to act as witnesses. One will normally be the owner of your residence. The officer will ask you all a lot of detailed questions (how you know the witnesses, what's your blood group, etc) and write out an interview form for each of you, to which he'll add your photo and thumbprint and send them to the Interior Ministry "as evidence." Then you are put on the tabien baan and have reached the end of the process.

Traveling outside Thailand

Before taking a trip outside Thailand you must apply for a 1-year endorsement of your Residence Book (1,900 baht) and a re-entry ("non-quota Immigrant") visa in your passport (1,900 baht single, 3,800 baht multiple) valid for one year.

What you get

(Certificate of Residence and Alien Registration Book)

Benefits of Permanent Residence

1. No need to leave the country within 7 days if employment is terminated.
   
2. No need to extend or renew any visa, or report your address every 90 days. But you do have to obtain a re-entry visa if you go out of the country.
   
3. Allowed to buy a condominium without having to remit funds from abroad.
   
4. Entitled to apply for citizenship after 5 years.
   
5. Entitled to be appointed a director of a public limited company even if the majority of other directors on the Board are non-Thai.
   
6. Supposedly easier to obtain a work permit.
   
7. Allowed to go through the "Thai passports only" channel at airport Immigration.
   

"Disadvantages" of Permanent Residence

When applying for a Thai driving licence, they will insist you have a valid re-entry visa in your passport and residence book, even if you are not intending to go out of the country. They will require your house registration certificate and include your unique 13-digit number on the driving licence. Many banks and hotels act like they've never seen an Alien's Registration book before and may insist on seeing your passport, perhaps because the Alien's Book doesn't contain your name in English.

Updates from members in this topic

1. Please see the latest (Dec 2009) information and documents from the Immigration Department. Many minor requirements have changed.
   
2. The Bangkok Immigration Bureau moved to Chaeng Wattana Road on October 1, 2009
   
3. The health certificate must be from a government hospital and a blood test for syphilis may be required.
   
4. Tax receipts may need to be certified by the Revenue Dept.
   
5. You may need a letter of guarantee from the Labour dept.
   
6. You must appear in the photos of your workplace and residence.
   
7. You may need to produce your salary slips for the last 2 years.
   
8. If you have a child, you will need to take a DNA paternity test.
   
9. If you are married to a Thai, an Immigration officer will come to your residence to verify that you are in fact married and cohabiting.
   
10. Since 2007 the Thai-language test is a panel asking the applicant questions, but the questions are simple and the panel friendly.
    
11. As of April 2010, the 2006 applicants were still waiting for their final approval. The process can get delayed due to political instability.
    

Thanks so much! This is very helpful.

[Arkady]

I'm glad to hear they got around to accepting applications this year and didn't try to use the floods as an excuse. The interior minister has issued the standard quotas of 100 per nationality and 50 stateless folk, the maximum permitted under the 1979 Immigration Act. I have attached the announcement from the Royal Gazette for those interested. There seems to be no change in wording from previous years.

I really hope this means they plan to get back to issuing PR normally and will get through the backlog in a timely manner, rather than just approving a privileged few, as happened under the Newin regime at the ministry.

Permanent Residence Announcement 2011 TH.PDF

[autan]

An absolutely Outstanding post. The level of detail you have taken the trouble to go into is extremely informative.

My deepest thanks.

I may re-consider applying for PR based squarely on this post. I thought it would be near on impossible to get PR, but as you have said, "Get your house in order", be prepared, get legal representation, learn the language and maybe when the Thai's think your serious about it, you have a shot a least.

I believe the reason they want you to jump through all of the hoops is to discourage the wrong type of people and that is only good for Thai society.

Number one post.