Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[skyaslimit]

Hello, I successfully passed the interview at the begining on this year (2012). Now they allow me to extend the visa for every 6 months. My questions are:

1. Anyone has updates about when we will receive it the real PR so we don't need to go every 6 months?

2. Last time was the first time that I didn't extend the working visa by submitting all the documents, and it seems like everything was fine. So, can I switch my work place?

Anyone that has any updates or experience, welcome to reply

Yes you can change jobs while in the waiting period. Many in the present queue have done that and some even stopped working altogether.

You have just through your interview, they may frequently ask for for your personal and company's tax returns in coming months.

In my case (class of 2006) they keep calling me for some 2 years after my interview to submitt current tax returns, and every time I went there to submit they always asked me wether I have changed my job! untill the last 2 years of my waiting period they stop asking anything at all beacuse we were asking too many questions concerning our PR's .

Then at last October 2012 the class of 2006 recieved there PRs. So decide yourself if it worth to switch you job in so early stage, but of course you can switch your jobs as frequently as you wish.

[pablomeng]

Thanks to stbkk, Dork, skyaslimit... Guess I'll need to be more patient then and probably stick to this work place for a bit longer!

[Arkady]

Hello, I successfully passed the interview at the begining on this year (2012). Now they allow me to extend the visa for every 6 months. My questions are:

1. Anyone has updates about when we will receive it the real PR so we don't need to go every 6 months?

2. Last time was the first time that I didn't extend the working visa by submitting all the documents, and it seems like everything was fine. So, can I switch my work place?

Anyone that has any updates or experience, welcome to reply

Yes you can change jobs while in the waiting period. Many in the present queue have done that and some even stopped working altogether.

Are you still qualified for PR, if you stop working while your application is still pending? I would doubt it but perhaps they don't notice, if they don't ask to see your WP again.

I checked this point vis a vis citizenship for which having a job is also a requirement and Special Branch told me that applicants must maintain a WP throughout the whole lengthy process. However, you are not likely to be asked for it after you have been interviewed.

[stbkk]

Hello, I successfully passed the interview at the begining on this year (2012). Now they allow me to extend the visa for every 6 months. My questions are:

1. Anyone has updates about when we will receive it the real PR so we don't need to go every 6 months?

2. Last time was the first time that I didn't extend the working visa by submitting all the documents, and it seems like everything was fine. So, can I switch my work place?

Anyone that has any updates or experience, welcome to reply

Yes you can change jobs while in the waiting period. Many in the present queue have done that and some even stopped working altogether.

Are you still qualified for PR, if you stop working while your application is still pending? I would doubt it but perhaps they don't notice, if they don't ask to see your WP again.

I checked this point vis a vis citizenship for which having a job is also a requirement and Special Branch told me that applicants must maintain a WP throughout the whole lengthy process. However, you are not likely to be asked for it after you have been interviewed.

They wanted to see my work permit when I got my PR book a couple of weeks ago, but there was no problem with it being for a different company to the one I was working for back in 2006 when I applied!

[tombkk]

Hello, I successfully passed the interview at the begining on this year (2012). Now they allow me to extend the visa for every 6 months. My questions are:

1. Anyone has updates about when we will receive it the real PR so we don't need to go every 6 months?

2. Last time was the first time that I didn't extend the working visa by submitting all the documents, and it seems like everything was fine. So, can I switch my work place?

Anyone that has any updates or experience, welcome to reply

Yes you can change jobs while in the waiting period. Many in the present queue have done that and some even stopped working altogether.

Are you still qualified for PR, if you stop working while your application is still pending? I would doubt it but perhaps they don't notice, if they don't ask to see your WP again.

I checked this point vis a vis citizenship for which having a job is also a requirement and Special Branch told me that applicants must maintain a WP throughout the whole lengthy process. However, you are not likely to be asked for it after you have been interviewed.

They wanted to see my work permit when I got my PR book a couple of weeks ago, but there was no problem with it being for a different company to the one I was working for back in 2006 when I applied!

Same here. At time of application, they told me that I can change my job, as only the status at time of application is considered. I was therefore surprised that they even asked for a WP when I picked up the PR.

Did anybody here not have a WP when they received their PR?

Sent from my LG-P698f using Thaivisa Connect App

[Dork]

They wanted to see my work permit when I got my PR book a couple of weeks ago, but there was no problem with it being for a different company to the one I was working for back in 2006 when I applied!

Same for me, however I didn't have my WP or even a copy with me. That wasn't a problem for issuing the residence certificate. Apparently the only reason they asked for it was to check the spelling of my name in Thai.

Another chap that had his PR issued the same day as me had retired during the waiting period so no longer had a WP. No problem for him either.

[Arkady]

They wanted to see my work permit when I got my PR book a couple of weeks ago, but there was no problem with it being for a different company to the one I was working for back in 2006 when I applied!

Same for me, however I didn't have my WP or even a copy with me. That wasn't a problem for issuing the residence certificate. Apparently the only reason they asked for it was to check the spelling of my name in Thai.

Another chap that had his PR issued the same day as me had retired during the waiting period so no longer had a WP. No problem for him either.

I am glad to hear that retiring while waiting for PR doesn't disqualify you, particularly since they take such a long time over it.

Citizenship may be different because the Nationality Act stipulates that a profession in Thailand is required for naturalisation and that is how Special Branch explained it to me. Nevertheless, seeing as citizenship can take even longer than PR, this could be problem for those who retire while waiting, if they actually ask to see the WP before issuing the naturalisation certificate. The Immigration Act on the other hand doesn't stipulate the qualilfications for PR. Instead it assigns the authority to the Immigration Commission to fix qualifications and this could be a critical difference.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Arkady

[Tomtomtom69]

a. if I am granted permanent residence status for the rest of my life....why would I still be restricted in how I earn a living (on the same basis as a Thai passport holder? as long as it was legal) and

Because you aren't a Thai passport holder. A passport and freedom to work anywhere are two of the benefits of Thai citizenship. But for citizenship there's another approval process and more fees to be paid.

b. if I were nevertheless legally restricted in what areas I could work (because I do not hold a Thai passport), as a permanent resident, why would I need an annual work permit for the permitted areas I am allowed to work in? an annual confirmation that I am following the labor regulations does not make sense (for example, I do not need to submit an annual confirmation that I have not broken any other laws laws (civil or criminal) or robbed any banks during the past year)....

I think the work permit scheme is simply a good way to control foreigners and make sure they don't do the jobs that are prohibited to them. The government can hardly expect employers to know which jobs are prohibited and which can or can't be done by a Thai. The strange thing is that Thailand used to issue lifetime work permits back in the 60s, probably to PR holders.

But don't a lot of "prohibited jobs" go to Lao, Cambodian and Myanmar nationals? They may look nearly the same as Thais, but the fact is, they aren't Thai and thus all foreigners should be treated the same! If I'm right, what a double standard this is. Not that any foreigner from a rich country (Singapore, most western nations, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong SAR etc.) would ever consider working in a shrimp farm, but I'm just saying...

[camerata]

Well, that's it in a nutshell: in recent years Thais haven't wanted to do dirty jobs like building construction, but someone has to do it. Same thing in Japan. Japan doesn't really want Iranians there, but someone has to do the construction work.

[tamvine]

On my side (2008, still waiting) I am confused by two different statements in the past weeks, one was that several hundred applications and possibly the entire batch of 2006/2007/2008 had been signed and all were back to the immigration, the other one was that at the moment, beside the 2006 and few 2007 PRs issued, no more signed applications were at CW. I now put my faith in an older post mentioning the 99% chances that all approved applications could be cleared by the end of the year...

The 99% chance was in the case the older interior minister would still be at the office. But since he's gone, so the 99% hope.

Now the new 99% chance is that, no more PR are going to be signed within this year. lol.

2006 batch and few 2007 PR are few real lucky chaps.

I am thinking of writing a letter to new IM, requesting him to help look my case of PR. Will it help or boomerang?

[canopus1969]

Expect that to put you at the bottom of the list

[skyaslimit]

Just for my curiosity....... what is the penalty if you hold the PR and found working without a work permit?

[Mario2008]

Just for my curiosity....... what is the penalty if you hold the PR and found working without a work permit?

That is a criminal offense and as a result could lead to you losing PR.

[Arkady]

a. if I am granted permanent residence status for the rest of my life....why would I still be restricted in how I earn a living (on the same basis as a Thai passport holder? as long as it was legal) and

Because you aren't a Thai passport holder. A passport and freedom to work anywhere are two of the benefits of Thai citizenship. But for citizenship there's another approval process and more fees to be paid.

b. if I were nevertheless legally restricted in what areas I could work (because I do not hold a Thai passport), as a permanent resident, why would I need an annual work permit for the permitted areas I am allowed to work in? an annual confirmation that I am following the labor regulations does not make sense (for example, I do not need to submit an annual confirmation that I have not broken any other laws laws (civil or criminal) or robbed any banks during the past year)....

I think the work permit scheme is simply a good way to control foreigners and make sure they don't do the jobs that are prohibited to them. The government can hardly expect employers to know which jobs are prohibited and which can or can't be done by a Thai. The strange thing is that Thailand used to issue lifetime work permits back in the 60s, probably to PR holders.

But don't a lot of "prohibited jobs" go to Lao, Cambodian and Myanmar nationals? They may look nearly the same as Thais, but the fact is, they aren't Thai and thus all foreigners should be treated the same! If I'm right, what a double standard this is. Not that any foreigner from a rich country (Singapore, most western nations, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong SAR etc.) would ever consider working in a shrimp farm, but I'm just saying...

I don't see any reason not to exempt PRs from the list of jobs protected for Thais. This list is only an annex to the now repealed 1978 Working of Aliens Act and is hopelessly out of date. The current 2008 Working of Aliens Act obliged the Labour Ministry to come up with a new list within a year but so far the ministry has declined to do this for reasons that have not been disclosed but it is probably due to fears any new list would be inconsistent with Thailand's obligations under the AEC. Most sensitive jobs like being an MP or a judge are reserved for Thais under the constitution which ranks above other laws. There are very few people who qualify for PR that are interested in doing labouring jobs, hot metal typesetting of Thai characters or making Thai traditional musical instruments and the professions are adequately protected by the requirements to pass exams in Thai which are anyway coming under attack by virtue of the AEC. Thailand is the only country I know of where permanent residence doesn't include the right to work and adult males have to be working in Thailand already in order to qualify for PR. So there is absolutely no logical justification to the policy of requiring PRs to have WPs I can thing of. During the application process you need to convince them that you intend to spend the rest of your life in Thailand. In that case, why deliberately make it more difficult for PRs to earn a living in Thailand?

As far as I know the life time WPs referred to above were a one-off issue in 1972-3 in accordance with Revolutionary Decree no. 322 of 13 December 1972, Thailand's first work permit law. Prior to that laws regarding foreign workers only restricted occupations and limited the proportion of foreigners in a business. (In 1941 a business with over 10 employees was obliged to hire Thais as 50% of the work force). Following the Thai legal principle of grandfathering, foreigners with PR who were working at the time of the decree were given life time WPs to work in the same profession อาชีพ, if they applied within 90 days. Those who were on temporary visas weren't so lucky as they got WPs only valid until the expiry dates on their visas.

I cannot cite the specific ministerial regulations or cabinet resolutions but the foreign labourers Thailand now depends on to keep its sweatshop industries on life support are issued WPs to work as labourers through temporary waivers to the list of protected occupations in the annex to the 1978 law. There is also a whole raft of temporary immigration legislation issued through cabinet resolutions, that have to be renewed, annually I think, governing the conditions for granting visas and alien ID cards (why no ID cards for PRs too?) to Burmese, Lao and Cambodian labourers - separate laws for each nationality. It seems the Thai government doesn't want to acknowledge that the mismatch of its own human resources and its lowly place on the global value added ladder is a long term problem with no solutions in sight and takes comfort in issuing serial temporary legislation that keeps the foreign labourers unsettled and encourages abuse by Thai employers.

Going back only a few years it used, at least, to be possible for a PR to get a WP with a small company without the company necessarily having to increase capital by another Bt 2 million or hire another 4 Thai employees. In the 2010 revision of ministerial regulations the Labour Ministry decided to axe the privilege of PRs not needing 4 Thai employees and I think the privilege regarding capital is gone too. This seems to me to be pointlessly spiteful towards PRs who might be retiring from long term jobs and wish to set up a small business of their own. Given the small number of PRs approved in recent years, it is hard to see what the ministry feels can be achieved by trying to force them to retire without working rather starting their own small firms which might generate employment and tax revenue. Remember that all these people have useful business skills that have been thoroughly checked out by the Immigration Bureau. Given the high fees now charged for PR, it is outrageous to withdraw any of the small range of privileges.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Arkady

[Arkady]

I am thinking of writing a letter to new IM, requesting him to help look my case of PR. Will it help or boomerang?

It's anyone's guess but my own is that a letter of complaint about a minor matter sent to the minister would never get anywhere near the minister or the part of the Department of Provincial Administration that handles PR and citizenship applications or anyone in authority. The Interior Ministry is such a behemoth that the minister must receive thousands of letters of complaint on matters ranging from the behaviour of puuyai baan and village defence volunteers to actions of the Provincial Water Authority.

If you want to enquire about an individual case, it is far better to call or get someone with contacts at the MOI to call to ensure that your case hasn't been overlooked. There is no downside to this even if it won't speed things up. It happens every day. At least you can confirm that your file has not been overlooked or mislaid which can and does happen.

On the other hand, if you want to write to the minister to draw attention to the plight of those waiting for a long time for PR, there is no absolute imperative to send the letter to the MoI directly or give your name. You can simply ask a Thai friend to send a letter to the minister saying they concerned on behalf of foreign friends and colleagues about the way the ministry is treating applicants for PR, suggesting that things had deteriorated markedly under the Democrat led government and the previous military appointed government and that you hope Pheua Thai will quickly get the situation back to the days before the military coup when PR (and citizenship) applications were processed by the MoI within a strict time frame. This would do a great deal to improve Thailand's international image at a time when Pheua Thai is making every effort to improve Thaland's perception by foreign investors, trading partners and tourists - Yingluck is now doing official overseas trips and receiving foreign heads of state back to back. Finally the letter needs to be addressed to the minister at Pheua Thai party headquarters in his capacity as party chairman. There it stands a good chance of being opened by the son or daughter of some wealthy politician doing an internship who may well pass it to a policy wonk or a PR official who may even mention it to the minister. Get the idea?

Edited November 13, 2012 by Arkady

[thaiowl]

Just received my PR approval letter this morning. I applied in December 2007.

[tamvine]

Just received my PR approval letter this morning. I applied in December 2007.

Congratulations! so guess you are one of few lucky 2007 batch who were approved in the first lot with 2006. Or should I say new IM has started signing? May be you may ask CW when you go to collect your PR and post it for others benefit. Edited November 13, 2012 by tamvine

[Dork]

Just received my PR approval letter this morning. I applied in December 2007.

That's great news! I'm sure your post will give a lot of people some hope.

[sas_cars]

Just received my PR approval letter this morning. I applied in December 2007.

Can you read the minister name who signed on your approval letter? The signature and name of the minister will be there on it. Please let us know. We want to know whether it's the new minister or the old minister

[thaiowl]

Just received my PR approval letter this morning. I applied in December 2007.

Can you read the minister name who signed on your approval letter? The signature and name of the minister will be there on it. Please let us know. We want to know whether it's the new minister or the old minister

Guy's name was Police Colonel Chakthip Satapimolsak, Acting Commander Immigration 1

[tombkk]

Just received my PR approval letter this morning. I applied in December 2007.

Can you read the minister name who signed on your approval letter? The signature and name of the minister will be there on it. Please let us know. We want to know whether it's the new minister or the old minister

Guy's name was Police Colonel Chakthip Satapimolsak, Acting Commander Immigration 1

I don‘t remember who signed my letter, but it also was a high-ranking immigration officer and not the Minister.

Sent from my LG-P698f using Thaivisa Connect App

[PRV]

_{I just received my PR approval letter yesterday. I applied in December 2007. The letter has been signed by Chakthip Satapimolsak!! I guess many people will receive the approval letter now!!! Good Luck !}

Edited November 14, 2012 by Mario2008
font size adjusted

[sas_cars]

Congrats. It seems things are heading in the right direction

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Can anyone let us know on which document(s) the name/signature of the Interior Minister used to appear in the past? it could be interesting if applicants from the current batch in progress, once they get their PR, can confirm it is a different signature or not.

[tamvine]

_{I just received my PR approval letter yesterday. I applied in December 2007. The letter has been signed by Chakthip Satapimolsak!! I guess many people will receive the approval letter now!!! Good Luck !}

Congratulations and appreciate your post. Hope fully these are coming from the new set of approvals from new IM. Either way there is movement which is good and number of disappointed people are reducing.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Can anyone let us know on which document(s) the name/signature of the Interior Minister used to appear in the past? it could be interesting if applicants from the current batch in progress, once they get their PR, can confirm it is a different signature or not.

I don't think his signature is on any documents that are given to the applicants. It's only on internal documents.

[Arkady]

Can anyone let us know on which document(s) the name/signature of the Interior Minister used to appear in the past? it could be interesting if applicants from the current batch in progress, once they get their PR, can confirm it is a different signature or not.

I don't think his signature is on any documents that are given to the applicants. It's only on internal documents.

They don't give you a copy of whatever is signed by the IM. I asked for one. It might be a batch approval rather than an individual letter.

[sas_cars]

Never heard from any members here who are from 2008 and 2009 batch and still waiting. Raise your hands up please

[tamvine]

Can someone help advice that after you have got your PR book at CW.

- Can you get Reenrty right then and there?

- Can you travel overseas with Reentry and without Red Book from Police?

Edited November 14, 2012 by tamvine

[tamvine]

My mother is on my dependent visa in thailand. I am on Non-b and she is on Non-O. Once you are PR holder what visa she is converted upon? Does anyone knows the process?