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Nationwide rice audit ordered by NCPO nearly complete


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RICE-PLEDGING SCHEME
Nationwide rice audit ordered by Junta nearly complete

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The nationwide rice audit ordered by the junta is drawing to a close this week as scheduled, raising hopes that the state's mounting rice stockpiles can start to be released and the nightmare is end soon.

Since the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) initiated the inspection early this month, 18 million tonnes of pledged rice in 1,787 granaries around the country have been checked by troops against records for both quantity and quality.

The headaches of those involved will soon be gone, said ML Panadda Diskul, permanent secretary of the Prime Minister's Office and head of the committee for examining the state's rice inventory.

He said on Facebook that many owners of warehouses storing state rice under the rice-pledging project were tired of the surveys and the problem-plagued scheme, tired of being pushed into the "spotlight" and tired of the doubts of society as to whether they were involved with the project.

"They would like the bad dreams to end. Whatever the outcome will be, they will be a loser one way or the other," he said.

There was also a big problem related to the rice-pledging scheme that many people overlooked - expediting the launch of that populist policy without concern about the reputation of Thai rice.

"So, this matter has turned into a defect in the country's strategy implementation [for rice] until it turned into a fiasco," he said on Facebook.

However, the upshot of the inspection in the East's 14 provinces was that only a few flaws were found. There were 429.8 tonnes of rice missing or 0.018 per cent of the 2.32 million tonne total on the lists, the Second Army Area spokesman said yesterday.

General Prayuth Chanocha, director of the NCPO, has said the regime was committed to inspecting the quality and quantity of rice stored at government granaries nationwide, as well as bringing charges against anyone found involved in fraud or non-transparent activity.

"Of that, 126 granaries [as of Friday] were found to have irregular rice, and the type of rice in storage was not the same as that listed on the records," he said.

The NCPO had agreed to the plan proposed by the committee on rice releasing - to sell 18 tonnes of rice over three years, he said.

The grain would be sorted according to quality in a bid to further pass the rice to appropriate channels such as exports, general merchandise sales, consumption and processing.

Rice trading in the domestic and foreign markets would also have to give importance to price stability as well as public benefit.

The government might consider several export methods, including government-to-government deals, selling via state agencies and selling via domestic rice exporters, he said.

The Commerce Ministry is preparing to resume selling rice from its stocks early next month, gradually in small lots, at the rate of about 500,000 tonnes a month.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Nationwide-rice-audit-ordered-by-Junta-nearly-comp-30239601.html

[thenation]2014-07-28[/thenation]

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The public will never know the truth..........!

I'm not well up on the ins and outs of the rice scheme but with all that's gone on and all that's been said about the suspect dealings just how complete and accurate can this audit be ?

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Yingluck will have to pay for the the disappearing grains, and all the financial loses Thai tax payer experienced.

It is all her fault that Thailand lose billions and billions from her stupid corruption idea, while many farmers were driven to suicide.

 

 

Mark's price guarantee scheme is a million time better, cost almost nothing while enrich the poor Thai farmers at the same time.

 

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"The NCPO had agreed to the plan proposed by the committee on rice releasing - to sell 18 tonnes of rice over three years, he said." That amount of rice does not sound like very much - sounds like they barely have anything to sell.

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Mark's price guarantee scheme is a million time better, cost almost nothing while enrich the poor Thai farmers at the same time.

 

A price guarantee that costs almost nothing is a price guarantee that is near or below the market price. Not sure how that program will enrich anybody.

 

Maybe you should try to read up a bit on how price guarantees and subsidies work: the bottom line is that the government loses money (only exception is when they can corner the market). If they don't make a loss then it is not working.

 

That aside Mark's scheme was better as it leads to less excess production (supply and demand meet at a lower quantity) and the government does not have to be middleman by storing and selling rice.

Edited by Bob12345
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However, the upshot of the inspection in the East's 14 provinces was that only a few flaws were found. There were 429.8 tonnes of rice missing or 0.018 per cent of the 2.32 million tonne total on the lists, the Second Army Area spokesman said yesterday.

 

This keeps surprising me; the protesters were so sure huge amounts were missing and the army used it, partly, as a reason to stage a coup. But 0.018% missing is a rounding error, not the big scandal they had mentioned for weeks.

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It's got to be tough doing this audit.  Finding missing bags is not too difficult, even though facades were created to hide missing stock.  The tough part is determining if what's suppose to be there is really there.  Bags labeled as jasmine rice which in reality contain rice of a lower quality or is from a neighboring country.  And of course all the rotten stock.  What a mess.  The people in charge of this fiasco should be prosecuted.  If nothing else, for lying about the problems.  They were warned by many organizations but just ignored all and moved on with the scam.

 

The people in charge of this fiasco should be prosecuted.

 

First you mention it might be very hard or even impossible to find out IF there are any problems with the rice, next you say the people in charge of this fiasco should be prosecuted. What fiasco are you talking about exactly? You just said that it is hard to determine if there is a fiasco or not to begin with. Maybe wait till there is evidence before prosecuting anybody.

 

(i am pretty sure that there will be irregularities, but asking for people to be prosecuted before there is evidence seems a bit odd to me)

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Yingluck will have to pay for the the disappearing grains, and all the financial loses Thai tax payer experienced.
It is all her fault that Thailand lose billions and billions from her stupid corruption idea, while many farmers were driven to suicide.
 
 
Mark's price guarantee scheme is a million time better, cost almost nothing while enrich the poor Thai farmers at the same time.
 


4,000 Baht a month is already too much for a Thai.


If you hadn't already posted the above elsewhere I could almost believe the fake sympathy for Thai farmers.
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To summarize to date the audit results:

 

- missing rice 0.018% or 1/18 thousandths (largely due to granary owner and distributor theft)

- granaries with "irregular" rice 7.05% (broken. spilled, spoiled, infested)

- a few "flaws" found in the 14 provinces

- time to sell off existing 2013 stock to take 3 years

- cost of military and independent agencies involved in the audits not identified

- cost of granary owner labor and equipment to support audit is absorbed by granary owners (to pass onto future farmer payments?)

 

Other events:

 

- sale of existing stock delayed 7-8 months due to constitutional budget constraints on interim government and partial shutdown by anti-government forces

- since 2013 price for rice has dropped dramatically due to eventual oversupply by competing countries

- existing stock has been stored for up to a year making it more susceptable to spoilage.

- current 2014 stock depends on 2013 prices or higher

 

From purely an economic viewpoint (putting aside the political and emotional issues) the audit established an important baseline for accounting purposes that should have been in place since inception of the rice program but the additional audit bureaucracy now did little to uncover widepsread government criminal wrongdoing nor to improve rice farmer's current and future financial position.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It's got to be tough doing this audit.  Finding missing bags is not too difficult, even though facades were created to hide missing stock.  The tough part is determining if what's suppose to be there is really there.  Bags labeled as jasmine rice which in reality contain rice of a lower quality or is from a neighboring country.  And of course all the rotten stock.  What a mess.  The people in charge of this fiasco should be prosecuted.  If nothing else, for lying about the problems.  They were warned by many organizations but just ignored all and moved on with the scam.

 

The people in charge of this fiasco should be prosecuted.

 

First you mention it might be very hard or even impossible to find out IF there are any problems with the rice, next you say the people in charge of this fiasco should be prosecuted. What fiasco are you talking about exactly? You just said that it is hard to determine if there is a fiasco or not to begin with. Maybe wait till there is evidence before prosecuting anybody.

 

(i am pretty sure that there will be irregularities, but asking for people to be prosecuted before there is evidence seems a bit odd to me)

 

I never said impossible.  The lead on the investigation has already said more than 5% is missing.  Plenty of pictures of facades being used to hide missing rice.  Plenty of pics of rotten rice.  The hard part is determining what's in each bag.  It's already been determined rice from neighboring countries was being used in this scam.  Which has been going on for years and was a problem in previous rice pledging schemes.  Widely known.  So yes, those in charge of this financial debacle should be held responsible.

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/746558-ml-panadda-inspects-southern-rice-stocks/

 

M.L. Panadda also noted that, the amount of rice missing from various warehouses throughout the nation would be more than the 5% already recorded.

 

 

And it's not just missing rice, also the fake government to government deals, misleading info to the public, etc.

 

Excellent analysis of the rice scam:

 

http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/thailands-divisive-rice-scheme/

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However, the upshot of the inspection in the East's 14 provinces was that only a few flaws were found. There were 429.8 tonnes of rice missing or 0.018 per cent of the 2.32 million tonne total on the lists, the Second Army Area spokesman said yesterday.

 

This keeps surprising me; the protesters were so sure huge amounts were missing and the army used it, partly, as a reason to stage a coup. But 0.018% missing is a rounding error, not the big scandal they had mentioned for weeks.

did you understand what was written, this is only the result from the 14 eastern provinces, not all of the country. The missing rice from some of the other areas has already well exceeded this p*ssy little amount.  What they have found in this area is that there is a lot of suspect rice, ie, they have substituted inferior/ other countries rice which is just as bad as missing rice as it is still corruption but dont let the truth get in the way of a red bitch session..

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To summarize to date the audit results:

 

- missing rice 0.018% or 1/18 thousandths (largely due to granary owner and distributor theft)

- granaries with "irregular" rice 7.05% (broken. spilled, spoiled, infested)

- a few "flaws" found in the 14 provinces

- time to sell off existing 2013 stock to take 3 years

- cost of military and independent agencies involved in the audits not identified

- cost of granary owner labor and equipment to support audit is absorbed by granary owners (to pass onto future farmer payments?)

 

Other events:

 

- sale of existing stock delayed 7-8 months due to constitutional budget constraints on interim government and partial shutdown by anti-government forces

- since 2013 price for rice has dropped dramatically due to eventual oversupply by competing countries

- existing stock has been stored for up to a year making it more susceptable to spoilage.

- current 2014 stock depends on 2013 prices or higher

 

From purely an economic viewpoint (putting aside the political and emotional issues) the audit established an important baseline for accounting purposes that should have been in place since inception of the rice program but the additional audit bureaucracy now did little to uncover widepsread government criminal wrongdoing nor to improve rice farmer's current and future financial position.     

 

 

Actually the audit didn't establish much, just the relation to what warehouse records showed should be there and what seems to be actually there. I don't think the government had provided (or could?) records on what they 'knew/thought' what should be there.

 

Next the details of 14 provinces in the East may be less relevant for other regions. How much of the rice is coming from East, NorthEast, North, Central, South ?

 

Also the 18 million tonnes of rice to be sold over three years seems to be that leftover from the 2011/2014 period in which the RPPS saw the government buy about 61(++) million tonnes of paddy which probably converted to 39(++) million tonnes of rice (just assuming a 40% reduction with milling).

 

Furthermore we still need an audit of the BAAC which paid out 880(++) billion Baht upon government issued receipts.

 

Finally we need a correlation of all those facts and audit results.

 

With the RPPS created as self-financing (or even profitable) scheme the Yingluck government has some explaining to do for the 500/700/ 700++ billion Baht lost.

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http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/thailands-divisive-rice-scheme/

 

Excellent article.

 

But sadly the last 2 paragraph says so much about Thailand

ie we don't care that the rice scam has ruined Thailand's reputation and finances because we got more money and would be happy for the Shins to return and rape the country so long as we got more money again

 

Please NCPO stay in charge so they can't do it again.

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It's got to be tough doing this audit.  Finding missing bags is not too difficult, even though facades were created to hide missing stock.  The tough part is determining if what's suppose to be there is really there.  Bags labeled as jasmine rice which in reality contain rice of a lower quality or is from a neighboring country.  And of course all the rotten stock.  What a mess.  The people in charge of this fiasco should be prosecuted.  If nothing else, for lying about the problems.  They were warned by many organizations but just ignored all and moved on with the scam.
 

The people in charge of this fiasco should be prosecuted.
 
First you mention it might be very hard or even impossible to find out IF there are any problems with the rice, next you say the people in charge of this fiasco should be prosecuted. What fiasco are you talking about exactly? You just said that it is hard to determine if there is a fiasco or not to begin with. Maybe wait till there is evidence before prosecuting anybody.
 
(i am pretty sure that there will be irregularities, but asking for people to be prosecuted before there is evidence seems a bit odd to me)
 
I never said impossible.  The lead on the investigation has already said more than 5% is missing.  Plenty of pictures of facades being used to hide missing rice.  Plenty of pics of rotten rice.  The hard part is determining what's in each bag.  It's already been determined rice from neighboring countries was being used in this scam.  Which has been going on for years and was a problem in previous rice pledging schemes.  Widely known.  So yes, those in charge of this financial debacle should be held responsible.
 
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/746558-ml-panadda-inspects-southern-rice-stocks/
 

M.L. Panadda also noted that, the amount of rice missing from various warehouses throughout the nation would be more than the 5% already recorded.
 

 
And it's not just missing rice, also the fake government to government deals, misleading info to the public, etc.
 
Excellent analysis of the rice scam:
 
http://thediplomat.com/2014/07/thailands-divisive-rice-scheme/
The facades were in one storage.. ONE

The 5% was a cutoff figure for reporting a loss. Have u ever considered how impossible this task was.

Count 500,000 sacks in piled of 20,000 and get it accurately done? Impossible.


So after all the tooing and froing, they now admit that irregularities are few



"But we all know Yingluck was in on it".


Did we? Edited by Thai at Heart
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In the big scheme of things, it does not look to me like there was the massive corruption that posters here on TV have been harping about for years.  There is corruption every contract the government lets, there is corruption and payoffs in the police and army.  That's the way Thai people live.  What's the big deal here?  Just one more example of the unstoppable corruption.

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I saw pics of another warehouse where there was a facade.  So I've seen at least 2.  And of course that one warehouse where there were 100,000 bags missing.  That's a bunch.

 

The big problem for Yingluck and her cronies will be the fake G to G deals.  If they find evidence of that, they'll all be in big trouble.  Fraud, pure and simple.

 

Another great article from a year ago.  I love this comment:

 

http://world.time.com/2013/07/12/how-thailands-botched-rice-scheme-blew-a-big-hole-in-its-economy/

 

Pressed to name a single independent economist who thought Thailand’s rice plan would work, Dawe paused for a moment to think, then answered, “Not that I know of.” One of the more optimistic forecasts, from Sam Mohanty at the International Rice Research Institute (yes, it exists), predicted that Thailand could at best drive up prices for one growing season. Still, he advised against it. Could the policy-makers have been so fixated on votes that they missed the near unanimous warnings coming from market experts?

 

 

I think we all know the answer to the last question. 

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I saw pics of another warehouse where there was a facade.  So I've seen at least 2.  And of course that one warehouse where there were 100,000 bags missing.  That's a bunch.
 
The big problem for Yingluck and her cronies will be the fake G to G deals.  If they find evidence of that, they'll all be in big trouble.  Fraud, pure and simple.
 
Another great article from a year ago.  I love this comment:
 
http://world.time.com/2013/07/12/how-thailands-botched-rice-scheme-blew-a-big-hole-in-its-economy/
 

Pressed to name a single independent economist who thought Thailands rice plan would work, Dawe paused for a moment to think, then answered, Not that I know of. One of the more optimistic forecasts, from Sam Mohanty at the International Rice Research Institute (yes, it exists), predicted that Thailand could at best drive up prices for one growing season. Still, he advised against it. Could the policy-makers have been so fixated on votes that they missed the near unanimous warnings coming from market experts?
 

 
I think we all know the answer to the last question. 

There were some but few GtoG deals. These were just froth thrown into the market to start stories that govts were still buying. The total they have found missing is apparently going to be paltry.

So, after all this, anyone going to maybe admit they didn't nick the rice?
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In the big scheme of things, it does not look to me like there was the massive corruption that posters here on TV have been harping about for years.  There is corruption every contract the government lets, there is corruption and payoffs in the police and army.  That's the way Thai people live.  What's the big deal here?  Just one more example of the unstoppable corruption.


Like you, still waiting for the big corruption charges which is favourite subject here. Nothing in article to indicate. Also the big favourite here is about the 500B Baht loss. Then I see there is still 18M tons in stock awaiting clearance by the Junta to sell. That will equates to about 300B baht if you use the average weighted global white rice price. Will see after audit is done if indeed it was such a big deal that cost a government.
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In the big scheme of things, it does not look to me like there was the massive corruption that posters here on TV have been harping about for years.  There is corruption every contract the government lets, there is corruption and payoffs in the police and army.  That's the way Thai people live.  What's the big deal here?  Just one more example of the unstoppable corruption.


Like you, still waiting for the big corruption charges which is favourite subject here. Nothing in article to indicate. Also the big favourite here is about the 500B Baht loss. Then I see there is still 18M tons in stock awaiting clearance by the Junta to sell. That will equates to about 300B baht if you use the average weighted global white rice price. Will see after audit is done if indeed it was such a big deal that cost a government.

 

 

As far as I understand and with the limited details available, we have a situation where the BAAC paid out close to 1 trillion Baht, and received compensation from the government for close to 200 billion. With the 18 million tonnes allegedly in stock that could leave a gap of at least 500 billion and probably more. Excluded are additional costs like continued storage, interest on non-revolving fund, costs of managing non-revolving fund, etc.

 

Now in one way you're right, it would seem the Yingluck administration didn't think it to be a big deal. Probably because it was tax payers money only bah.gif

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A fair amount of rice was nicked here:

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/745636-more-rice-missing-from-thai-warehouses/

 

I think what upsets many is the way the PTP handled this.  Trying to hide the facts, report false numbers, claim there was NO rice missing after a nationwide audit, etc.  Basically treating the public like dummies.  Especially when many insiders, experts and outside agencies were saying there were big problems.  The warning signs were there.  All they had to do was be honest and we wouldn't be in this mess.  Admit some had gone missing.  Admit the market collapsed and there would be bigger loses.  Etc.  But telling lies and trying to fool everybody is what caused the outrage.  IMHO.

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A fair amount of rice was nicked here:
 
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/745636-more-rice-missing-from-thai-warehouses/
 
I think what upsets many is the way the PTP handled this.  Trying to hide the facts, report false numbers, claim there was NO rice missing after a nationwide audit, etc.  Basically treating the public like dummies.  Especially when many insiders, experts and outside agencies were saying there were big problems.  The warning signs were there.  All they had to do was be honest and we wouldn't be in this mess.  Admit some had gone missing.  Admit the market collapsed and there would be bigger loses.  Etc.  But telling lies and trying to fool everybody is what caused the outrage.  IMHO.


This is one factory in Pathum Than I. Hardly evidence of some huge national scam.
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I saw pics of another warehouse where there was a facade.  So I've seen at least 2.  And of course that one warehouse where there were 100,000 bags missing.  That's a bunch.
 
The big problem for Yingluck and her cronies will be the fake G to G deals.  If they find evidence of that, they'll all be in big trouble.  Fraud, pure and simple.
 
Another great article from a year ago.  I love this comment:
 
http://world.time.com/2013/07/12/how-thailands-botched-rice-scheme-blew-a-big-hole-in-its-economy/
 

Pressed to name a single independent economist who thought Thailands rice plan would work, Dawe paused for a moment to think, then answered, Not that I know of. One of the more optimistic forecasts, from Sam Mohanty at the International Rice Research Institute (yes, it exists), predicted that Thailand could at best drive up prices for one growing season. Still, he advised against it. Could the policy-makers have been so fixated on votes that they missed the near unanimous warnings coming from market experts?
 

 
I think we all know the answer to the last question. 

There were some but few GtoG deals. These were just froth thrown into the market to start stories that govts were still buying. The total they have found missing is apparently going to be paltry.

So, after all this, anyone going to maybe admit they didn't nick the rice?

 

 

Your theme song is always the same when ever there is an article about the rice scheme. Please can we just wait until the audit is done. No one can possibly answer your questions at this point.     Just remember that if you are told that there are 1000 marbles in a bag, and you only find 999, then there is not a huge shortfall  IF the figure of 1000 is correct. However, perhaps the true figure is actually 1100 - the shortfall is then considerably greater.

 

"126 granaries [as of Friday] were found to have irregular rice, and the type of rice in storage was not the same as that listed on the records," ---    This is akin to an audit of an art gallery. Out of a total of 100 Old Masters, 5 of them were discovered to be prints. The number may correlate, but it is obvious that something under hand took place.  

 

BTW - One of the alleged G to G deals seemed to be untrue.  

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I saw pics of another warehouse where there was a facade.  So I've seen at least 2.  And of course that one warehouse where there were 100,000 bags missing.  That's a bunch.
 
The big problem for Yingluck and her cronies will be the fake G to G deals.  If they find evidence of that, they'll all be in big trouble.  Fraud, pure and simple.
 
Another great article from a year ago.  I love this comment:
 
http://world.time.com/2013/07/12/how-thailands-botched-rice-scheme-blew-a-big-hole-in-its-economy/
 

Pressed to name a single independent economist who thought Thailands rice plan would work, Dawe paused for a moment to think, then answered, Not that I know of. One of the more optimistic forecasts, from Sam Mohanty at the International Rice Research Institute (yes, it exists), predicted that Thailand could at best drive up prices for one growing season. Still, he advised against it. Could the policy-makers have been so fixated on votes that they missed the near unanimous warnings coming from market experts?
 

 
I think we all know the answer to the last question. 

I think you are referring to the G to G China deal. Thats the only one that I can think off. If you are, it's not fake. 10% of the million was delivered before the PDRC immobilized the ministry operation. The junta is now trying to negotiate with China for the rest 900, 000 tons to be deliver. Do try to catch up with the latest news.
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Please can we just wait until the audit is done. No one can possibly answer your questions at this point.    

 

Does anybody know who is actually overseeing this complete audit?

 

I mean, the army does a coup with one of the reason that the rice scheme is a big fraud, and then they are doing the audit themselves? I certainly hope they have hired an international independent auditor with a good reputation to oversee this audit otherwise the conclusions will be useless.

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I saw pics of another warehouse where there was a facade.  So I've seen at least 2.  And of course that one warehouse where there were 100,000 bags missing.  That's a bunch.
 
The big problem for Yingluck and her cronies will be the fake G to G deals.  If they find evidence of that, they'll all be in big trouble.  Fraud, pure and simple.
 
Another great article from a year ago.  I love this comment:
 
http://world.time.com/2013/07/12/how-thailands-botched-rice-scheme-blew-a-big-hole-in-its-economy/
 

Pressed to name a single independent economist who thought Thailands rice plan would work, Dawe paused for a moment to think, then answered, Not that I know of. One of the more optimistic forecasts, from Sam Mohanty at the International Rice Research Institute (yes, it exists), predicted that Thailand could at best drive up prices for one growing season. Still, he advised against it. Could the policy-makers have been so fixated on votes that they missed the near unanimous warnings coming from market experts?
 

 
I think we all know the answer to the last question. 

I think you are referring to the G to G China deal. Thats the only one that I can think off. If you are, it's not fake. 10% of the million was delivered before the PDRC immobilized the ministry operation. The junta is now trying to negotiate with China for the rest 900, 000 tons to be deliver. Do try to catch up with the latest news.

 

 

I don't see any reference to support this.  I can only find articles like this, saying it was cancelled and delivery was delayed:.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/04/us-thailand-rice-china-idUSBREA1309L20140204?_ga=1.133106894.1562096145.1406539531

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