The end of corruption, am I the only one who will miss it?

[BuriRamHome]

As long as they still let us pay 100thb on the spot for speeding then I am in favour of cleaning up corruption 

[Thaiberius]

Corruption will cease when the social climate allows it. This means when prostitution becomes illegal, farangs can buy land, schoolteachers teach kids in a subject they are familiar with and they stop the merit, lucky, jai dam, fortune tellers nonsense. That's never going to happen so corruption is going to be around for a few more years yet. 

[ebean001]

I hate the word corrpution because it really does not tell you anything. For example, the president of a Central America country was impeached from office and confined to his home for xx years for 'corruption'. Stop right now! 'WHAT ARE YOU THINKING' about this man?

After 3 or 4 articles in the paper, a journalist finally told the readers the act that was committed. It was - he flew to USA to visit the company that won a large contract in his country. The flight cost was less than $1000 if I recall correctly. The company paid for the flight. He did not reimburse the cost to the company'. 

now you know whay i hate the word used by journalist.

[recycler]

Escaping bureaucracy in Thailand, you're joking us right?

 

And don't worry, nobody will erase corruption in Thailand within our generation and the next, the next, the....

[glegolo]

Please forgive the ignorance, but what exactly have they changed regarding corruption?

 

A good question I think!! One thing that I can contribute with is the following. I am working with shipping goods to Thailand. My customs clearence-guy in Bangkok have now informed me that the military have placed a couple of their own at the customs office in the port. They are checking ALL paperwork of each shipment, and decide finally the duties that shall be paid... The time of "Tea-money" is gone, and the shipments and the import-clients are being treated according to the thai law in this respect.

 

Glegolo

[fiberman]

I hope you still think like that when someone is pointing a gun at your head!!

 

You will never get rid of corruption in Thailand, it is part of the Thai pysche. Perhaps if the military stay in power for the next 20 years and the next generation are brought up with a different way of thinking but that's not going to happen!!

Edited July 29, 2014 by fiberman

[garyinhuahin]

I will be sad on the day that a simple traffic infraction, such as

• riding a motorcycle without a helmet,
• turning from the wrong lane,
• ignoring lanes entirely,
• speeding,
• driving without a license,
• driving down the wrong side of the road,
• driving a home built, unlicensed vehicle (I have a Thai-style sidecar)
• all of the above at the same time,

costs me even 1/50th of the money and hassle it would in my home country.

 

In my mind, it's not corruption when it works in my favor. It's a flexible system.....

[Pinot]

Can't believe how naive you are. End of corruption. Are you mad, are you seriously proposing that the military in this country is less corrupt than politicians?

 

I'm impressed so far. The cops and the politicians are all bent, that's a given. Yes, I would say the military is less corrupt. Possibly, far less corrupt. This clean-up in Phuket would have been over in a week if the military was corrupt. I'm very hopeful. I've seen nothing but good things.  

[maximillian]

"Who said law and order is a prerequisite to happiness and soulful enlightenment, anyway?"

I don't know who said it, but it's true.

Any anarchic society is centered on dog eat dog. Even the successful do not have "soulful enlightenment", and if they happen to have happiness, they do not have humanity.

The OP smacks of a person who on the political scale is further right-wing than Attila the Hun and Hitler.

But in his case, the superiority he craves stems from financial not physical might, nor intellectual.

 

Put me in the ring with him, or the academic arena, and he is mine to own. When I win the lottery, he will be mine too. (Sadly, I haven't won the lotto yet)

 

A sad individual. And probably a reincarnation of  WUS.

 

Fully agree with you, Seastallion.
 

[RichBKK]

Wait a while. It will be back. Eventually

This is a bit like a kid cleaning his bedroom. Definitely some good things being done but a lot of crap will be slung under the bed until mummy goes downstairs and the mess starts accumulating again. Crisp packets, toys, wank rags, dirty cups, DVD cases, the lot

Hopefully some things will last the pace but they are fighting against hundreds of years of back scratching. Change may be there but anything lasting will be gradual

[tx22cb]

 

Can't believe how naive you are. End of corruption. Are you mad, are you seriously proposing that the military in this country is less corrupt than politicians?

 

I'm impressed so far. The cops and the politicians are all bent, that's a given. Yes, I would say the military is less corrupt. Possibly, far less corrupt. This clean-up in Phuket would have been over in a week if the military was corrupt. I'm very hopeful. I've seen nothing but good things.  

 

Corruption in the Thai Army follows an exponential curve.

At the bottom we have the Privates - majority of the headcount, but little corruption as they have no power and little access to civilians/contractors.

In the middle, we have the Colonels - they enjoy major free-bies, and significant opportunities for self-enrichment.

At the top, all the Generals have assets which are incongruous with their salaries, and the most corrupt Generals are as bent as the dirtiest politicians.  Arm dealers have huge slush funds, dispensing a few stangs for each bullet bought, thousands for every rifle, and millions for larger items.

 

The only distinction is that the Army boys would die for their Monarch, whilst the Politicians would let others die to defend HM.

[epicstuff]

I missed it too, but times have been marching on for some time.

 I like you wanted to escape bureaucracy  and it worked for a while. I loved driving around Bangkok on my big bike Illegally imported from Japan( not by me) missing all the vital paper work and only an old perished paper licence from the Uk .with a 100baht note folded neatly into it for the purposes of the odd police check. but the more time and money I spent here the more i realized the bureaucratic system is far worse here no protection no solid advice on correct procedure. One government department pushes you to another then another  offering different directions and advise  on what to do. With  hands held out for the correct amount of grease to make things easier, though not necessarily legally binding  on issues you should expect to be common straight forward procedures. life can be on big headache, here now essentially if you try to do thing correctly  (but not on an unlimited budget.)  And I never thought Id say it  but Thailand just went too far got way too greedy and the majority of people far to meek to stand up against it.  So i am happy to see these reprisal against the corruption . .  Not so happy about the tightening of visa's however as I think it affects far more innocent people who are contributing to Thai society than the rubbish they are trying to evict. 

[NoshowJones]

seems more people like nanny states-they keep voting for it.

 

 

 

We really dont want los morph into sinapore........

The OP is making a lot of sense here, the corruption here in Thailand has two sides to it, from a Farang point of view, it is helpful in some ways, I don't know if it is helpful or not to the average Thai.

 

In the UK, I think the corruption is worse, but it is only the rich who are getting benefit from it, think about the banks and the government, and that is only part of it.

 

[farang000999]

1. Corruption is not going anywhere, power is being consolidated. The military are cleaning up some of the annoying scams that are out in the open and that the Police (Red Shirts) were making money out of. This hurts their rivals (the police) and makes the Junta look good in the eyes of the public and thus helps the Junta justify their suspension of democracy.

 

2. You aren't the fittest of the fit. You are just another clown who came to the third world and felt powerful for the first time in his life because the locals make $10 a day.

[Maroon Watcher]

It is a World fact the curruption makes poor people poorer.

 

What I witness here is poor people trying to be currupt (Like their Masters)
but failing to get better jobs/promotion WITH Pay... or a better life.
 

From observations it's like playing "Candy Crush" - it feels like you are always winning, but you're not.

(But the Company is doing alright...)
 

Poor people gamble for the same reason.

 

Working hard too - only makes you tired (But at least you Can sleep at night and "pay the morgage")

 

Working the system, within the law, makes you rich.
Finding a New way in the system makes you  successful and rich - in money and personal terms.

 

Or be a poitician, with a perfect past (But you will aslo need to play the game...)

[NoshowJones]

"I like to think of life as a game, and those who play the system best, profit most; I like that ideology. When it's dog eat dog the fittest will thrive."

Sounds like selfishness to me. You should feel right at home in Thailand.

I thing everyone should look after themselves and their family first, as long as they are not harming the ordinary people in any way, the government when it was there, always put themselves first, so why shouldn't we, I do not see anything selfish about it.

 

This applies to the UK more than Thailand.

 

[NoshowJones]

I missed it too, but times have been marching on for some time.

 I like you wanted to escape bureaucracy  and it worked for a while. I loved driving around Bangkok on my big bike Illegally imported from Japan( not by me) missing all the vital paper work and only an old perished paper licence from the Uk .with a 100baht note folded neatly into it for the purposes of the odd police check. but the more time and money I spent here the more i realized the bureaucratic system is far worse here no protection no solid advice on correct procedure. One government department pushes you to another then another  offering different directions and advise  on what to do. With  hands held out for the correct amount of grease to make things easier, though not necessarily legally binding  on issues you should expect to be common straight forward procedures. life can be on big headache, here now essentially if you try to do thing correctly  (but not on an unlimited budget.)  And I never thought Id say it  but Thailand just went too far got way too greedy and the majority of people far to meek to stand up against it.  So i am happy to see these reprisal against the corruption . .  Not so happy about the tightening of visa's however as I think it affects far more innocent people who are contributing to Thai society than the rubbish they are trying to evict. 

Your last sentence, spot on.

[IMA_FARANG]

  Brings up a point.

Is it corruption when you accidently (or otherwise) pass a slow moving vehicle in the bus lane and a cop stops you and warns you not to do that again?

Then before he lets you go he wants 150 Baht to not give you a ticket?

To many Thais, that's a common occurrence..... not corruption, but just a "quid-pro-quo"

You avoid the trouble of getting a ticket, and the cop gets 150 Baht.

Or consider the old woman street trader selling coffee on the street from a push cart coffee stand..

She has no other income, she must sell that coffee on a good corner where there are customers to buy it.

So she slips the cop 50 or 60 Baht, to park her cart for the day and he let's her stay there all day selling coffee.

Is that corruption or not?

For many Thais, that's how you can afford to live and make money.

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[In Search of Space]

I believe you should learn to differentiate between corruption and commission.

Agreed Mr ATF. The massive government corruption and we are talking millions upon millions of dollars, pounds, baht that undoubtably goes on can only hold the country back as it is which is not good for Thai citizens, visitors and residents (of the various kind). When a highway scheme has 30-50% commission then we get a crap highway, everyone suffers.

Thai business (large corporations), share the government work out between themselves, the result is the wrong skills being applied, the wrong company doing the work and corruption to cover the poor quality - everyone suffers.

A major topic is the rice issue, we have seen farmers commit suicide over poor management of an ill-fated scheme with major corruptions.

The money received by police is massive. I once heard a story from a former work colleague that his Thai girlfriend was sectretary to a police major, her job was to launder his 800,000 baht month - it might even have been weekly, I can't remember after a few beers. That may be an exaggeration or a made up story, but some truth lies behind it.

This isn't small potatoes

So yes, crack down on the rampant corruption. But having said that iam as guilty as possibly many people on this forum to pay a couple hundred baht to a cop to get off a road offence such as riding a bike in the right-hand lane, or slipping a little more to get something through the system.

In my view, taxes should be increased and government salaries increased such that government employees and police do not have to take commission/bribes etc

Of course we don't want Singapore, we want an easy-going, elated, but efficient Thailand, with a few defects, because that is what is fun.

I have probably totally contradicted myself here

Floating anarchy is a better way

[In Search of Space]

When the wife first arrived in UK, I was stopped by a traffic cop for speeding, she asked me if I was going to give him £10, told her no way, just smile, apologise and we might get away with it. Anyway, he let me off with a warning and he must have wondered who the mad woman in the car was smiling at him - surprised we weren't arrested for that.

[Bernard Flint]

Corruption will cease when the social climate allows it. This means when prostitution becomes illegal, farangs can buy land, schoolteachers teach kids in a subject they are familiar with and they stop the merit, lucky, jai dam, fortune tellers nonsense. That's never going to happen so corruption is going to be around for a few more years yet. 

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand

[Emster23]

Wait until someone you knew and care for is killed by government worker driving car, and NOTHING happens, other than police fining 1200 baht, and taking money for repairs to smashed motorbike. Or perhaps get electrocuted due to no safety standards. Or your gf having to give up some sex to local land office man in order to have deed registration done. I suggest you do a little reading on "the social contract" and perhaps even what constitutes a civil society.

[Just1Voice]

 

Corruption will cease when the social climate allows it. This means when prostitution becomes illegal, farangs can buy land, schoolteachers teach kids in a subject they are familiar with and they stop the merit, lucky, jai dam, fortune tellers nonsense. That's never going to happen so corruption is going to be around for a few more years yet. 

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand

 

 

Someone forgot to tell that to the the THOUSANDS of girls working in all the bars and clubs throughout Thailand.  Or maybe it's a "Thai only" protected job venture.
 

[Benmart]

I live my life with the concepts of honestly, kindness and tolerance. Corruption runs contrary to my core values. While others may embrace it for personal profit, I opt for a different path. That being said, it's live and let live for me.

[bunuel]

Can't believe how naive you are. End of corruption. Are you mad, are you seriously proposing that the military in this country is less corrupt than politicians?[/quote]
 
I'm impressed so far. The cops and the politicians are all bent, that's a given. Yes, I would say the military is less corrupt. Possibly, far less corrupt. This clean-up in Phuket would have been over in a week if the military was corrupt. I'm very hopeful. I've seen nothing but good things.  
 [/quote]
Corruption in the Thai Army follows an exponential curve.
At the bottom we have the Privates - majority of the headcount, but little corruption as they have no power and little access to civilians/contractors.
In the middle, we have the Colonels - they enjoy major free-bies, and significant opportunities for self-enrichment.
At the top, all the Generals have assets which are incongruous with their salaries, and the most corrupt Generals are as bent as the dirtiest politicians.  Arm dealers have huge slush funds, dispensing a few stangs for each bullet bought, thousands for every rifle, and millions for larger items.
 
The only distinction is that the Army boys would die for their Monarch, whilst the Politicians would let others die to defend HM.[/quote]


An end to corruption???

Hate to burst your yellow bubble, but corruption has been part of the human existence since the mythic Garden of Eden, and will be with us until Doomsday. Anyone who says he or she will " put an end to corruption " is blowing smoke up your ass - as is anyone who advertises an ability to alter human nature.

Granted, there are varying levels of corruption in the world, and it is really a matter of personal preference.
In truly corrupt countries, like some in Africa. everything is for sale. If you are powerful and well connected, the system works fine. Otherwise, you've got problems, since there is no Rule of Law. Nobody pays policemen,so you rent your own and ask them to bring their AK 47s to help resolve disputes.

This is what they used to call Law of the Jungle in the good old days. Might makes right. My gun is bigger than yours. It is a matter of personal preference, but even in Africa, most people prefer Rule of Law,
because they have learned not to trust The Strong Man with thr Gun.

As the great African liberator Kwame Nkrumah said, " The probllem in Africa is not corruption; it is
disorganzed corruption,"

[chrisinth]

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Corruption will cease when the social climate allows it. This means when prostitution becomes illegal, farangs can buy land, schoolteachers teach kids in a subject they are familiar with and they stop the merit, lucky, jai dam, fortune tellers nonsense. That's never going to happen so corruption is going to be around for a few more years yet. 

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand

 

 

  And I don't really know how farangs being able to buy land is going to stop corruption...................

[chrisinth]

The question of "who controls the controller" comes to mind.

 

We would also need to define illegal activities from corruption as well to fully understand what is happening and what is being changed.

[In Search of Space]

 

Corruption will cease when the social climate allows it. This means when prostitution becomes illegal, farangs can buy land, schoolteachers teach kids in a subject they are familiar with and they stop the merit, lucky, jai dam, fortune tellers nonsense. That's never going to happen so corruption is going to be around for a few more years yet. 

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand
 

 
Someone forgot to tell that to the the THOUSANDS of girls working in all the bars and clubs throughout Thailand.  Or maybe it's a "Thai only" protected job venture.
 

You would need a work permit


we tried so hard to make everything cool

[Lockind]

Not sure why a couple of posters are inviting me to a boxing ring because they don't agree with my opinion.  Very odd and intolerant.  Violence is a form of interaction mainly used by the ignorant and verbally handicapped.

[Lockind]

Wait until someone you knew and care for is killed by government worker driving car, and NOTHING happens, other than police fining 1200 baht, and taking money for repairs to smashed motorbike. Or perhaps get electrocuted due to no safety standards. Or your gf having to give up some sex to local land office man in order to have deed registration done. I suggest you do a little reading on "the social contract" and perhaps even what constitutes a civil society.

 

 

Lots of people are brainwashed by the justice system, they see it as the only way because they have never known any different.  They are taught that if you hurt another person, something bad must also happen to you.  I prefer financial compensation over prison time in these cases, of course it's not 'fair' that money talks but it does reward those that have been successful in their life.  Too many posters on TV have an unhealthy bloodlust when it comes to retribution to criminals.

 

Sometimes bad things happen, in the west a lot of money is spent trying to prevent them happening, with varying degree of success.  As a taxpayer there, I'd prefer not to pay that money, and to take my chances with dodgy electricity poles.