Finding Work In Thailand - Getting No Where?

[oravka]

Guys I am a British male with 10 years investment banking experience. 3 of those years were spent on the trading floor at the London Stock Exchange. I have worked for the 3 biggest investment companies in the world.

I don’t have a ‘degree’ although I am qualified professionally (which was the hardest thing I have ever done: 12 hours a day, 1 day a week and working at the same time)

I am currently the Director of a language school just outside Bangkok.

It has been fun however I have been trying to find work in the Investments business again here in Thailand, or perhaps other work but with a company offering a more solid long term plan.

My problem is I can’t find any recruitment firms in Thailand who can help me find work. I can’t help thinking this is because they don’t recognize my qualifications: which are more than a Bsc. And simply ignore / delete my C.V. If they would look at my C.V surely my previous companies and work experience plus my VALID higher qualifications should at least be enough for an interview or indeed, a reply to my e mails.

I was at home a few weeks ago in the Uk and called two recruitment firms and within 2 days I was offered several interviews in London, Berlin and Edinburgh. My experience has given me the weight I need to find work however in Thailand, it’s not happening.

Can somebody please tell me of any recruitment firms in the country that I can talk to or do you know of any good web sites that I can try?

Cheers

[Misty]

Hi Oravka,

What sort of position are you looking for? Were you an investment banker in London, or did you work on a trading desk? If trading, what type of trading did you do?

Cheers, Misty

[ronz28]

You could try this internet site:

http://jobsearch.monster.com/jobsearch.asp...0&submit=Submit

or try to get close like Singapore with coverage of Thailand

http://singapore.jobs.com/jobsearch.asp?q=...SG&aj=Singapore

[Darkhorse]

I would also recommend registering with London based agencies but specifying that you are only interested in jobs in Thailand/Asia. Many of the expat positions here are filled from the UK (or US) so keeping your name in the hat does help when someone is looking. The headhunters also troll through these sources from time to time.

Failing that, I would network a bit within the UK business groups who meet regularly in Bangkok. Try and meet up with some of the guys already working in your area, or related areas such as Auditors, Bankers, etc. Most of the senior jobs in Thailand for expats are filled through word of mouth.

Good luck,

Colin

[Gumballl]

Why do not consider starting a consultancy service/business in LOS? You could offer your services to companies, but not as a direct hire.

Being that I am naive as to what an Investment Banker does, I did a little research and found this description at the Princeton Review: Investment Banker

Perhaps the fact that you do not have a degree hurts your efforts in LOS. In the UK, it is easy for a placement service or other company to verify your employment history. In LOS, they do not generally pursue this avenue, and may merely look at your educational credentials (which sadly enough are also not verified in many cases).

Edited July 3, 2006 by Gumballl

[samran]

Probably best to talk to the HK and Sing Offices. Macquarie Bank out of Sydney was also expanding here recently, as part of a joint venture with TMB.

Just an observation however.

In my experience any time anything serious needs to be done they fly in the big guns from OS. The locals tend to deal with the small fry, handle customer relations, and are the ones who stay up all night re-doing proposals for potential clients while the HK'ers and Sing's are out on the town entertaining those potential clients.

Do you really want to be the grunt here again?

[Misty]

Still curious if it's investment banking or trading that you do?

Investment banking generally means deal generation. The foreign investment banks usually employ a well-connected Thai to bring in the deals--I doubt you'd be able to find a position like that, unless you could convince someone you could bring in a lot of business based on your connections. Execution is done regionally by sector and specialist teams located in HK and Singapore, as Samran points out. If you have execution experience, you could seek out work in those locations. You could also try getting an execution-related position at a Thai investment bank, but you'll probably need to be fluent in Thai, and even then, you might not enjoy the position much.

If you actually mean your experience is in trading the secondary market, there are jobs here. A number of the securities companies, foreign and local, employ English speaking sales traders that deal with the trading desks of foreign fund management companies. You'll probably have to pass a test given in Thai, but if you get hired, your firm should be able to provide you with a translator.

Good luck!

Edited July 4, 2006 by Misty

[morphic]

Unfortunately a part time vocational course is not considered equivalent or better than a degree so your "professional" qualification won't count to anybody who would consider hiring a foreigner.

If you happened to have a very specific skill then maybe you would have a chance, but that seems unlikely. Quite often 2 years or 5 years or 20 years of work experience can mean nothing more serial repetition of relatively undemanding labour...im sure the locals can don that and they speak the language.

I suggest you try your luck back home as there always seems to be a need for people to fill support roles in various back ofices or even trading floors.

Or consider applying to a local college back home as a mature student to get A levels and then a degree. That will take a few years but will pay dividends in the end.

[oravka]

Hi Oravka,

What sort of position are you looking for? Were you an investment banker in London, or did you work on a trading desk? If trading, what type of trading did you do?

Cheers, Misty

Yes I worked in London, Edinburgh and Glasgow. I wasn't a trader but I was a traders assistant. I did P and L for the traders and I worked in most areas of settlement. I worked in the Client service group and controls.

[oravka]

I would also recommend registering with London based agencies but specifying that you are only interested in jobs in Thailand/Asia. Many of the expat positions here are filled from the UK (or US) so keeping your name in the hat does help when someone is looking. The headhunters also troll through these sources from time to time.

Failing that, I would network a bit within the UK business groups who meet regularly in Bangkok. Try and meet up with some of the guys already working in your area, or related areas such as Auditors, Bankers, etc. Most of the senior jobs in Thailand for expats are filled through word of mouth.

Good luck,

Colin

Cheers for that Colin. As an ex-pat who lives outside Bangkok most of my networking has been with teachers or local farmers!

Where do these people hang out in Bangkok?

Soory if this sounds like a stupid question!

[oravka]

Probably best to talk to the HK and Sing Offices. Macquarie Bank out of Sydney was also expanding here recently, as part of a joint venture with TMB.

Just an observation however.

In my experience any time anything serious needs to be done they fly in the big guns from OS. The locals tend to deal with the small fry, handle customer relations, and are the ones who stay up all night re-doing proposals for potential clients while the HK'ers and Sing's are out on the town entertaining those potential clients.

Do you really want to be the grunt here again?

Cheers for that. I hear your point about being a 'grunt' again but I need long term security. Although I enjoy teaching and running the school I feel working for a Multi national would give me the stability I need right now. What do you do for work?

[oravka]

Still curious if it's investment banking or trading that you do?

Investment banking generally means deal generation. The foreign investment banks usually employ a well-connected Thai to bring in the deals--I doubt you'd be able to find a position like that, unless you could convince someone you could bring in a lot of business based on your connections. Execution is done regionally by sector and specialist teams located in HK and Singapore, as Samran points out. If you have execution experience, you could seek out work in those locations. You could also try getting an execution-related position at a Thai investment bank, but you'll probably need to be fluent in Thai, and even then, you might not enjoy the position much.

If you actually mean your experience is in trading the secondary market, there are jobs here. A number of the securities companies, foreign and local, employ English speaking sales traders that deal with the trading desks of foreign fund management companies. You'll probably have to pass a test given in Thai, but if you get hired, your firm should be able to provide you with a translator.

Good luck!

Cheers again Misty. You seem to know a lot about the business. Are you by chance in the securities business here in Thailand?

[oravka]

Unfortunately a part time vocational course is not considered equivalent or better than a degree so your "professional" qualification won't count to anybody who would consider hiring a foreigner.

If you happened to have a very specific skill then maybe you would have a chance, but that seems unlikely. Quite often 2 years or 5 years or 20 years of work experience can mean nothing more serial repetition of relatively undemanding labour...im sure the locals can don that and they speak the language.

I suggest you try your luck back home as there always seems to be a need for people to fill support roles in various back ofices or even trading floors.

Or consider applying to a local college back home as a mature student to get A levels and then a degree. That will take a few years but will pay dividends in the end.

A levels? Do you honestly think I would have worked where I have with no A levels?

I am a qualified accountant however my qualifications are not "Bsc". Cheers for your input but I have a sense that you and many others in Thailand automatically assume no degree means your previous work experience was purly 'back office' or 'support roles' or 'undemanding labour'. This is the exact point I am talking about.

I worked directly with traders calculating P and L. All of my teams did indeed have degrees. I was the manager of a team of 20. I had no degree however I learned the hard way through daily release study and learning on the job. In the UK banks understand this. Some people don't have the chance to go to Uni for various reasons. The companies here dont seem to know this / care.

Judging a book by it's cover / e mail?

[oravka]

Hi Oravka,

What sort of position are you looking for? Were you an investment banker in London, or did you work on a trading desk? If trading, what type of trading did you do?

Cheers, Misty

Cheers again Misty. I would like to return to the CSG or Sales areas. Again, not to be unclear, I am looking for a recruitment agency that I can talk to to discuss future opportunities. Who do you work for?

[Misty]

I am looking for a recruitment agency that I can talk to to discuss future opportunities. Who do you work for?

Hi again,

Sadly the Thai securities world for expats is such a small arena that I'm not aware of any headhunters that work full time on it based here, and the headhunters in HK and Singapore are only partially involved in the Thai market. Most jobs here go by word of mouth.

My best suggestion is to take a trip down to the Stock Exchange of Thailand library (located at the SET building near Queen Sirikit Convention center on Ratchadapisek Road--MRTA Sirikit stop). Ask the information desk there for a book listing all the brokers here with contact details. Once you have phone numbers, start calling and ask to speak to the foreign sales desks at each of the brokers you're interested in. You might be able to request an "informational interview" with some of the salesmen/dealers/traders over a coffee/lunch/beer. Once you understand the market better, you can probably hone your attention more specifically to the firms and positions you're interested in.

Best wishes, Misty

Edited July 5, 2006 by Misty

[billaaa777]

I have a Master’s Degree in Accounting and am a Certified Public Accountant. I have been Controller and CFO of various corporations back in the US with salaries in the $150,000 to $200,000 range. The best job I could get here was teaching accounting information systems at a university for 80,000 BHT a month. Better off doing your own thing like I did if you want to live here and make a good living. Make a lot more money than they will pay you and have more freedom.

[Misty]

I have a Master’s Degree in Accounting and am a Certified Public Accountant. I have been Controller and CFO of various corporations back in the US with salaries in the $150,000 to $200,000 range. The best job I could get here was teaching accounting information systems at a university for 80,000 BHT a month. Better off doing your own thing like I did if you want to live here and make a good living. Make a lot more money than they will pay you and have more freedom.

Although I agree that you have more freedom "doing your own thing", respectfully, I must disagree regarding the salary issue. Some people can and do make more than your US salary in the institutional brokerage industry here in Thailand (and quite a bit more in bigger markets elsewhere.) Salesmen and sales traders with the correct experience can do quite well. The trick is getting your foot in the door, and doing your job well once your hired.

[gwkenny]

I've been really hesitant to step into this thread...

Some people can and do make more than your US salary in the institutional brokerage industry here in Thailand

True, but it's the exception rather than the rule because the number of those jobs are so few over here. In New York they are a dime a dozen. An Associate at a bulge bracket or good second tier firm earns six figures out the gate with signing and guaranteed bonus bringing total compensation right into the middle of billaaa's salary range.

Thailand is just too small a market and to close to world class financial centers to support a sophisticated high level financial services industry.

About the guys in Thailand bringing home the bacon... I am really impressed with most. In the office by 6 or earlier to get ready for the Singapore morning call before opening bell. Extremely often seen in the office after 5pm. Some guys are maniacs and are working ALL the time! The large plus though is the stress level is much lower here than in the States and you don't nearly have them as often during the day as one would back in the States (or London). A thai trader just doesn't have to react as fast or as furiously for their clients to a change in the fed funds rate (or any economic announcement) as they would have to in the States. Additionally much of the local economic announcements that should move markets here are already priced in before the official announcement. Amazing Thailand

oravka:

What do you bring to the table? From what I've read, you've got a few years of trading floor support and clearinghouse experience (not investment banking as folks in the financial industries know it). You dotted the i's and crossed the t's for traders processing the P&L's. What do you have to offer a small (compared to London) regional office that they can't find in a Thai? Do you have any special skills aside from processing (because you can find Thais that are ###### good at processing)? Any insight into industries pertinent to Thailand? Energy? Forex? Relationships with institutions investors?

If not, then from my limited understanding (and believe me, it is limited), then there's not much of a place for you here. It's too small a market. Especially if you don't have Thai under your belt.

I also question why you are bent on talking to a head hunter. Call up the banks directly as Misty suggested. Also attend the American, British, and Australian Chamber of Commerce events. Always a few people from the banks floating around somewhere.

You also need to lose the brick on your should regarding qualifications and working back office/support. Concentrate on what you bring to the table.

To me, it seems that you should not be trying to leverage off your "investment banking experience" but touting your experience managing 20 some odd people along with your background and familiarity in accounting / finance. The problem with that is if you are going to manage people, chances are it's going to be Thais (unless you're teaching) and then language skills are almost a necessity.

Well, whatever you do, the best of luck!

g-

[sem087]

I don't have answers to your questions; I do however have a question for you. I am looking to move to Thailand to live there for a while, could you point me in the right direction for getting a job?

I have a degree from an American University in International Business and Trade. I am open to anything that could earn me decent money...(except teaching english).

Any pointers would be much appreciated.

Sincerely,

Scott

[Thaible]

You have no chance of getting that kind of job here:

-A company can easily hire a Thai person WITH a college degree to do the same thing

-Nearly all of it is computerized anyways

-All documents are in Thai

-you have to communicate with co-workers in Thai

[AmericanGuy1066]

Oravka

I've been thru similar experiences in the past. There aren't many good recruitment agencies in Thailand. Bigger ones like Robert Walters, Michael Page etc operate out of Singapore. They are less in touch with the Thai market, but Google them for contacts and get in touch, they occasionally get things come up. As you've noticed there's a gap in the Thai recruitment agency market. That in itself is an opportunity for someone.

Try Monster.com and Hudson for on-line agencies. They send you jobs to your email address, once you register and fill in fields of what you're looking for.

One agency I used personally for hiring as well as being hired was Smart City People. There are also some foreign directors within the company (or used to be), including one who is an ex-banker himself.

http://www.smartcitypeople.com/

SmartCityPeople - Bangkok, Thailand

Unit 92/56-57B Level 19 Sathorn Thani II, North Sathorn Road, Silom, Bangrak, Bangkok 10500 Thailand.

Tel : +66 2 636 7022 Fax : +66 2 636 7030 Email : [email protected]

A few points as "food for thought". Please take these as constructive things to think about. They are in no way suggestions as to you or any one else's character, but answering them may help you target your efforts better. They are the type of things people may be thinking, and why you are not getting the success you think you should. Your problems may actually be in other people prejudices or attitudes, but that comes straight back as your problem to address. They're some of the things I learnt.

- Quality jobs in any industry are limited for foreigners in Thailand. Banking is a particularly specialised field with even less opportunities. Why would someone want to take a risk on a person who has been outside of banking in the English teaching industry, when places are limited and specialized?

- Most banks tend to recruit outside of Thailand then post overseas. Regional Head offices may be better options for applications.

- Many Thais do not want you in Thailand, taking jobs Thai people could do in their eyes. Thais could well be the people who first see your CV. You've probably a higher success rate if you can get a foreigner to see your application first, unless they are specifically seeking a foreigner. I once applied to Save the Children and went directly to the office to hand in my application in person following a job ad. I was prepared to work for a pittance to do something worthwhile. I met only Thai people in the office and they simply said they were looking for a Thai. These weren't even the people involved in hiring…If I could have found a foreigner to explain to, or contact, maybe I could have got my real messages across.

- What makes you so special? What are you offering that Thais don't? Particularly in sales, contacts are key - usually Thai contacts.

- You don't seem well connected, and haven't done much to develop the right networks. Like it or not, networking is very important in Thailand. You need to start.

- You don't have a degree. Rightly or wrongly in Thailand this is a key criteria. Receptionists, secretaries, car salesman etc are all usually expected to have degrees

- Consider going to learn Thai/Thai culture etc at a reputable university such as Chula, ABAC, Thammasat. Thais themselves admire these institutions and they stand out on your CV as well as showing a real interest in Thailand. A few hours at ECC etc won't impress anyone though.

- You need to have good answers to the stereotyping you might face. Again like it or not:

> Too much Thailand on your CV can get you stereotyped.

> English teaching attracts certain stereotypes. Though there are also many decent English teachers, there are many who give the industry a bad name.

> Thailand itself and the foreigners that live there often have a stereotyped image

Put more bluntly: Take another look at yourself and your CV. Does it demonstrate quickly at the start, that you're someone who is looking for a role in Thailand for all the right reasons? How are you going to justify that you're not just another sexpat or whore-mongerer? Many people assume that is what single foreigners are here for and what they do. Yes it's often wrong and unfair, but it's also right sometimes. Farang are a homogenous group to many Thais. If you're married to a Thai put up there you're doing this for family reasons. Unfortunately it's not always a case of innocent until proven guilty. Many people will pre-judge you on the basis of the worst they have seen in other foreigners. Unfair, but it happens.

A final option to consider: Move overseas for a while to another Asian location and prove you can still cut it there. It may also give you time to re-evaluate why you are in Thailand. I did this for a couple of years. It helped my CV, helped re-affirm my reasons for being there, plus created options for the future. You can get stuck in Thailand if not careful. From an employers' perspective if you're not good enough to get a job in say Singapore why would they want you in Thailand?

Drop me a line at [email protected] if you think I could help further.

[blizzard]

i guess now you know why parents always say go to school and get a legitimate degree. and since when do thais need investment bankers. is there dealmaking going on here?

plus if you handled the p and l, they might just see you as someone who can add and subject.

hey scott, online poker is just for you! got to be more fun and lucrative than teeching engrit......lol.

Edited June 26, 2007 by blizzard

[sonicdragon]

You will always struggle to get the kind of job you want because there will always be equally well or better qualified and experienced candidates who are native speakers of the local lnanguage. This also applies to HK and SIN.

[blizzard]

language is a BIG problemo.

i had the hardest time ordering a pepperoni personal pan pizza and a glass of pepsi today at pizza hut.

first they said there is no such thing as pepperoni and 2nd they gave me a refillable pepsi.

scam alert refillable pepsi is extra baht! i did get charged for glass only after mean stares from manager..........lol.

[teejay]

Your best bet in Asia is HK... The degree part is gonna hurt, but as you know, floor trading is a word of mouth brotherhood, and usually is not even accessible by Ivy league grads cuz we floor traders consider them ######s.... at least that's the way it worked in Chicago (I traded SPX options, SP futures, and did equity/future arbitrage)... 3 years and I semi-retired, at 10 years that puts you up with the older guys in the commodities pits that will run you over and never let you make a single trade, or the guys who never made it big and make 100k a year and are happy with it cuz they are old and have kids in school.... I'm 29 now and I'm not even sure I could make it in the trading pits at my age... it was the best fun ever at the time, but the stress I don't need...

Banking in THailnad? Just saying it and I chuckle. And if you want to trade open-outcry, you gotta know the language... as for desk trading, I wouldn't trust Bkk with a penny of my trades.... Go to HK to make your money, spend it here in BKK, that's my advice. (but then again i'm not really sure what type of work you're interested in, you just mentioned your past experience).

Just think about it, real bankers and traders are in HK (and sing, maybe), not Bangkok... it's like i say, the millionaires retire in Thailand, the billionaires wouldn't touch it with a stick (same goes with those still working)... it's up to you... good luck and i wish you success.

[sonicdragon]

Your best bet in Asia is HK... The degree part is gonna hurt, but as you know, floor trading is a word of mouth brotherhood, and usually is not even accessible by Ivy league grads cuz we floor traders consider them ######s.... at least that's the way it worked in Chicago (I traded SPX options, SP futures, and did equity/future arbitrage)... 3 years and I semi-retired, at 10 years that puts you up with the older guys in the commodities pits that will run you over and never let you make a single trade, or the guys who never made it big and make 100k a year and are happy with it cuz they are old and have kids in school.... I'm 29 now and I'm not even sure I could make it in the trading pits at my age... it was the best fun ever at the time, but the stress I don't need...

Banking in THailnad? Just saying it and I chuckle. And if you want to trade open-outcry, you gotta know the language... as for desk trading, I wouldn't trust Bkk with a penny of my trades.... Go to HK to make your money, spend it here in BKK, that's my advice. (but then again i'm not really sure what type of work you're interested in, you just mentioned your past experience).

Just think about it, real bankers and traders are in HK (and sing, maybe), not Bangkok... it's like i say, the millionaires retire in Thailand, the billionaires wouldn't touch it with a stick (same goes with those still working)... it's up to you... good luck and i wish you success.

Umm, unless I misunderstood plain english the OP is an accountant calculating/verifying traders' P&L, not a trader him/herself. I struggle to imagine such a position being made available to a non-local.