A strange world: or how I learnt to stop judging and love the diversity

[Sigurris]

I was going to post this in an interesting thread about the age difference in thai-farang relationships, but I thought this might be worth a thread of its own.

 

The question is: When did you stop judging? Or why do you still bother judging?

 

This is my take. Having lived here for seven years and been an active, if intermittent, member of this forum for most of that time I see a couple of subjects that bring out the harshest judgments. Pattaya and Thai-farang relationships (which often descend into Pattaya hating as well).

 

Personal disclosure time. I live near Pattaya and have a girlfriend 25 years younger. So am I a sensitive soul who is just here to defend my position? No! I do not give a monkeys what you think of my address or choice of partner.

 

I want to tell you about my road to Damascus experience regarding judging others.

 

I had been to Pattaya once before with my British girlfriend (2004 in Phuket and Bangkok). We had seen the old guys and young girls and sneered. Which was a bit hypocritical since I was 19 years older than her.

I returned for my second trip, this time as a single man, in 2006. I knew Pattaya was a bit racy but was totally unprepared for the in your face experience that Walking Street was. Wow! I was a kid in a candy shop. Looking a fair bit younger than my 45 years, fit as a butcher’s dog and having a wallet the size of an elephant’s scrotum I was fair game. I indulged and partied like it was the proverbial 1999.

 

One night I walked into one of the night clubs in Walking Street and the first sight that hit me was an old man of around 70 on the podium with two girls whose combined ages were about 50. I was horrified. My first thought was,” You stupid old man you are making a complete fool of yourself”. I was not impressed.

Then it started to dawn on me. The guy was laughing and having the time of his life. He didn’t give a toss about whether he looked ridiculous or not. This was his time and he was making the most of it. I then started thinking about what he was missing back home (he was a Brit).

Perhaps he would be huddled up in a council flat on a sink estate scared to leave his flat for fear of junkies and thugs or maybe he had retired on his civil service pension to the seaside where he gardens and waits for death whilst nodding discretely to his neighbour who he hasn’t yet spoken to since he has only lived next door for three years.

Now, like a blinding flash I realized that it wasn’t him who was making a fool of himself but me. My negativity and judgmental attitude was poisoning my ability to see the beauty in the world.

 

That was my moment and since then I have tried to be non-judgmental. I fail regularly but at least I try.

[mrtoad]

Myself personally, I wouldn't at this point want a big age gap in my relationship. That's a personal choice. Maybe when I'm 60 and want to relive my youth then it might be different.

Most of the haters though are the young , penny pinching, plotless losers that think that they alone are gods gift to women, and the self righteous do gooders.

If they are having fun, and it's a mutually beneficial relationship, then who really cares.

Enjoy your life in Thailand, as in the the end life's to short to sit and tug away in front of a computer getting bitter.

[David48]

I still make judgements about other people ... I'm not terribly PC.

 

No problems here.

 

But thanks for sharing your personal story.

 

 

What does Roland Rat think?

.

[mrtoad]

Agreed David, waiting for Roland to comment, yeaaaaah!

[giddyup]

OP Thanks for that very nicely written piece. I only hope some of the haters might read it and become equally enlightened.

[ATF]

When I was young I thought I would live forever sadly one day it dawns on you that you won't.

 

That 70 year old guy probably spent most of it working in a regular job supporting his family an putting up with a nagging wife and sponging kids.

 

Good Luck to him.

[samuibeachcomber]

Nice post by the OP and exactly what most of us think when first arriving in places like pattaya.Its harder for the younger visitors just because they are young and dont see the carrying on back home that happens here.

 

There are two things here,one thais do not tend to discriminate about age and of course many thais are extremely poor and hooking up to some money that will make their life less stressful is more important than any age gap.

 

For any man,lets say 50 plus years its a joy to behold,to have the attention,love and affection of a younger lady.Not all of them are money grabbers.Yes they expect you to take care of them just as we would do in a relationship back home,and yes for some there is a lot of pressure and expectationns from family back in the boon docks.Its really up to us how we handle all this,maybe with some sensitivity and understanding the "other side of the coin" can help.

 

Good luck to all of us to count our blessings and enjoy!

[AlexRRR]

Yes sometimes some of us get that light globe go off in our heads, mine was when when i was 35 the office girl bit younger with fantastic legs ass and waist, flat as a board and a face that was....well... for 6 months id watch her walk through the factory and my mind did judge her on her flat chest and her ...well...face...one day i had to talk to her from then on every time which was at least once a day she would stop and chat to me, not long after i started to see her in a different way as i got to know the person better she went from plain ugly to attractive, you see the inner beauty of her soul began to showed on the outside to me.

 

From that time on ive been very careful about not only judging a person but also make stories of what i think might be the reason for this or that.

 

As for the age thing in Thailand and back home...there are plenty of white women looking for older guys if you know where to look of course not as many as in Thailand, ive given up trying to meet a more mature Thai woman and now im just going with the flow, the fact is there are more younger ones not only available but looking for you and yes they do cost more to keep ( as in expectations like starting a family and security) if you make the right choice and not a doormat it can work well for both of you.

[RolandRat]

I still make judgements about other people ... I'm not terribly PC.
 
No problems here.
 
But thanks for sharing your personal story.
 
 
What does Roland Rat think?
.

Yeaaaaaahhhhh Ratfans !

Good story, bit sloppy form me, but ok, thanks for sharing.
As for my opinion, there are two things I have to say about this......

"Never look down on anyone, unless you are helping them up"

"The ability to observe without evaluating is the highest form of intelligence"

Just be nice, costs nothing ! Yeaaaahhhhhh

[Costas2008]

 

I still make judgements about other people ... I'm not terribly PC.
 
No problems here.
 
But thanks for sharing your personal story.
 
 
What does Roland Rat think?
.

Yeaaaaaahhhhh Ratfans !

Good story, bit sloppy form me, but ok, thanks for sharing.
As for my opinion, there are two things I have to say about this......

"Never look down on anyone, unless you are helping them up"

"The ability to observe without evaluating is the highest form of intelligence"

Just be nice, costs nothing ! Yeaaaahhhhhh

 

 

You forgot to add........never buy, always rent...........

 

OP, really enjoyed reading your post.

I so much associate with the old guy............

Edited July 31, 2014 by Costas2008

[geronimo]

I stopped judging about 15 years ago, when I understood Dhamma.

[Rumblecat]

"Perhaps he would be huddled up in a council flat on a sink estate scared to leave his flat for fear of junkies and thugs or maybe he had retired on his civil service pension to the seaside where he gardens and waits for death whilst nodding discretely to his neighbour who he hasn’t yet spoken to since he has only lived next door for three years."

Yeah, I get your point. Or he could be sitting by a lovely river at sunset with someone who loved him for who he was as a person, comfortable in his own skin and at peace with the world and his advancing years. I mean... yours is probably closer, and I'm sure he was having a great time, in the same way that I'm sure all these people who leap from their condo buildings were having a great time once as well- but escaping from reality temporarily doesn't mean reality goes away. 

Jesus, that came out a bit harsh. I think your attitude actually is a lot better than mine. :)

[Sigurris]

"Perhaps he would be huddled up in a council flat on a sink estate scared to leave his flat for fear of junkies and thugs or maybe he had retired on his civil service pension to the seaside where he gardens and waits for death whilst nodding discretely to his neighbour who he hasn’t yet spoken to since he has only lived next door for three years."

Yeah, I get your point. Or he could be sitting by a lovely river at sunset with someone who loved him for who he was as a person, comfortable in his own skin and at peace with the world and his advancing years. I mean... yours is probably closer, and I'm sure he was having a great time, in the same way that I'm sure all these people who leap from their condo buildings were having a great time once as well- but escaping from reality temporarily doesn't mean reality goes away. 

Jesus, that came out a bit harsh. I think your attitude actually is a lot better than mine.

 

I often wonder about peoples stories whether its the old guy in the disco, the pattaya flying club members or the old couple sitting in a park holding hands. Life is endlessly fascinating but there is some truth in Thoreau's assertation that, "The mass of people live their lives in quiet desperation". So if someone can escape their reality for a short time that has to be a good thing. Thats what holidays (and I guess Pattaya) were invented for.

 

I once had the privelidge to spend some time with an old couple who had been married for 50 years. I met them at Pegasus Bridge in Normandy. He had dropped into France on June 5th 1944 aged 19 and was also rescued at Arnhem. A more unassuming man I have never met. But to me he will always be a hero. At 19 he helped make it possible for me to be here today spouting my opinions.

 

That old man at the disco could have been anyone. But he had a good time and he helped me shape my life here. And it helped. I still see things that make me laugh/cringe/stare and blush but live and let live keeps me grounded and happy. May the good times last forever for all of us, even the grumpy haters. Who knows what happened to embitter them.

[sanuk711]

I am 85 now, whenever I go out to a disco , I  see all the young Girls pointing & talking about me------so I must still have what it takes……….....

[ttthailand]

OP ... Well said !
I try to think and live my life in a way that does not cause harm to others. As long as two people are happily engaged in a relationship why should anyone judge them. ( unless it is illegal )
If some young or old guy wants to dance and have fun at a disco.... Go for it !
If you want to drink and drive or cause fights or make problems for others then let's hope you see the light and change your ways quickly.

We all have faults and will never live up to everyone's expectations so we just need to try and make sure our path is the best way to go and is not full of regrets.

[Rumblecat]

 

That old man at the disco could have been anyone. But he had a good time and he helped me shape my life here. And it helped. I still see things that make me laugh/cringe/stare and blush but live and let live keeps me grounded and happy. May the good times last forever for all of us, even the grumpy haters. Who knows what happened to embitter them.

 

That's a very good point. 

[CharlieH]

Why is it when we are young everyone says "follow your dreams, be yourself, do what you want to do, go for it" then just because we are older they knock us for doing just that !

[David48]

I am 85 now, whenever I go out to a disco , I  see all the young Girls pointing & talking about me------so I must still have what it takes……….....

 

Are you a Fisherman as well ... 

.
 

[benalibina]

Myself personally, I wouldn't at this point want a big age gap in my relationship. That's a personal choice. Maybe when I'm 60 and want to relive my youth then it might be different.

Most of the haters though are the young , penny pinching, plotless losers that think that they alone are gods gift to women, and the self righteous do gooders.

If they are having fun, and it's a mutually beneficial relationship, then who really cares.

Enjoy your life in Thailand, as in the the end life's to short to sit and tug away in front of a computer getting bitter.

Your post would be valid if you had not written the second paragraph. Seems that you can learn alot from OP his attitude. Edited July 31, 2014 by benalibina

[rgs2001uk]

 

Myself personally, I wouldn't at this point want a big age gap in my relationship. That's a personal choice. Maybe when I'm 60 and want to relive my youth then it might be different.

Most of the haters though are the young , penny pinching, plotless losers that think that they alone are gods gift to women, and the self righteous do gooders.

If they are having fun, and it's a mutually beneficial relationship, then who really cares.

Enjoy your life in Thailand, as in the the end life's to short to sit and tug away in front of a computer getting bitter.

Your post would be valid if you had not written the second paragraph. Seems that you can learn alot from OP his attitude.

 

 

How much were you taken for?

 

Toady is a long time expat here and has lived in various provinces.

I dare say we have observed the same, will need to wait for him to verify.

 

 

Not mentioned in the opening post, after Khun gramps had enjoyed himself and spent his money as they all do, it was probably back to matron at the local nursing home.

 

Or come on here and vent his spleen about being taken to the cleaners by some girl with no more than a P4 education.
 

[benalibina]

 

Myself personally, I wouldn't at this point want a big age gap in my relationship. That's a personal choice. Maybe when I'm 60 and want to relive my youth then it might be different.

Most of the haters though are the young , penny pinching, plotless losers that think that they alone are gods gift to women, and the self righteous do gooders.

If they are having fun, and it's a mutually beneficial relationship, then who really cares.

Enjoy your life in Thailand, as in the the end life's to short to sit and tug away in front of a computer getting bitter.

Your post would be valid if you had not written the second paragraph. Seems that you can learn alot from OP his attitude.
 

 
How much were you taken for?
 
Toady is a long time expat here and has lived in various provinces.
I dare say we have observed the same, will need to wait for him to verify.
 
 
Not mentioned in the opening post, after Khun gramps had enjoyed himself and spent his money as they all do, it was probably back to matron at the local nursing home.
 
Or come on here and vent his spleen about being taken to the cleaners by some girl with no more than a P4 education.
 

Welcome too. The topic is about judging others. God knows why you come up with what you have written. If all in your life is good, just be happy and dont judge so much. Be the better man.

On your question.....alot.

[robertthebruce]

Oh folks life eh..

All I can say life passes far too quick, life is too short to judge, no one is perfect, live and let live, and if the old guy in the club is having a ball, that's the main thing, if we all took a look at ourselves and our past, I am sure we have all been like the old guy in the club, I know I was, especially with a few drinks... But it was fun for me, and that's what life is all about letting your hair down..

Enjoy.... And smile....

[Sawan Chan 7]

If Grandpa sticks to making a fool of himself in a Pattaya disco, I won't judge him. If he comes to my neck of the real world, I'll tell him straight not to be a stupid old fool. 

Siggurus, don't you think it kinda like the pot calling the kettle black, being in  Pattaya bar if you get my drift. You are both deluded kids in the same candy shop.

[sdanielmcev]

Delusions- what a concept. Of course you judge people, there is nothing wrong with that. Only when you judge from  a crooked road are you mistaken. And, you do care, if you pronounce it to others; you want them to judge you as you want to be judged, not as you are.

 

[farang000999]

What will 70 year olds do if there comes a day and age where there are no longer any third world countries with desperate women?

[manarak]

What will 70 year olds do if there comes a day and age where there are no longer any third world countries with desperate women?

 

Aaaaah a post that irks me on so many levels :-)

Well done packing so much negativity in a one liner, bashing the old, bashing Thailand, bashing women, and asserting your own moral superiority!

 

I believe a balanced society should have both deperate men and women, but somehow western countries seem to have more desperate men than women.

 

- "Let's give enough to everyone to not be desperate!"

- "Good plan. So you will pay for one to two persons to not be desperate, right?"

- "Umm... well... I barely have enough to pay the mortgage and a holiday per year, so no... <another voice> Let's take it from the rich! Yeah, let's take it from the rich"

555

 

I rest serene knowing that the coming of pension age of the baby boom generation will definitively bury freeloaders' dreams.

[farang000999]

Could be a good contest between you and the OP for most delusional

 

 

Looking a fair bit younger than my 45 years, fit as a butcher’s dog and having a wallet the size of an elephant’s scrotum I was fair game. I indulged and partied like it was the proverbial 1999.

 

He really is a handsum man.

 

[farang000999]

 

What will 70 year olds do if there comes a day and age where there are no longer any third world countries with desperate women?

 

Aaaaah a post that irks me on so many levels :-)

Well done packing so much negativity in a one liner, bashing the old, bashing Thailand, bashing women, and asserting your own moral superiority!

 

I believe a balanced society should have both deperate men and women, but somehow western countries seem to have more desperate men than women.

 

- "Let's give enough to everyone to not be desperate!"

- "Good plan. So you will pay for one to two persons to not be desperate, right?"

- "Umm... well... I barely have enough to pay the mortgage and a holiday per year, so no... <another voice> Let's take it from the rich! Yeah, let's take it from the rich"

555

 

I rest serene knowing that the coming of pension age of the baby boom generation will definitively bury freeloaders' dreams.

 

Has anyone else noticed that in these topics about loving Thailand - the most dedicated and excited posters always seem to find a way to slag off Western women and Western society?
Apparently your happiness is coupled with bitterness.

[Kudel]

 

 

What will 70 year olds do if there comes a day and age where there are no longer any third world countries with desperate women?

 

Aaaaah a post that irks me on so many levels :-)

Well done packing so much negativity in a one liner, bashing the old, bashing Thailand, bashing women, and asserting your own moral superiority!

 

I believe a balanced society should have both deperate men and women, but somehow western countries seem to have more desperate men than women.

 

- "Let's give enough to everyone to not be desperate!"

- "Good plan. So you will pay for one to two persons to not be desperate, right?"

- "Umm... well... I barely have enough to pay the mortgage and a holiday per year, so no... <another voice> Let's take it from the rich! Yeah, let's take it from the rich"

555

 

I rest serene knowing that the coming of pension age of the baby boom generation will definitively bury freeloaders' dreams.

 

Has anyone else noticed that in these topics about loving Thailand - the most dedicated and excited posters always seem to find a way to slag off Western women and Western society?
Apparently your happiness is coupled with bitterness.

 

Yes and most of them always slag of their ex western female partners on forums like this one but never say what they did wrong in said relationship ,like most of the silly old farts and el cheapo english teachers you meet in expat bars who say they never pay for it having just built that house for noi from the sexy man bar .But i dont have a problem with age gaps.And having spent their live savings on the house for noi from the sexy man bar are all complaining about the new visa rules coming in to place soon on certain forums.Yes indeed us young guns still have a lot to learn from those old asia hands.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Kudel

[giddyup]

What will 70 year olds do if there comes a day and age where there are no longer any third world countries with desperate women?

 

What will you do?