Israel and Hamas agree to unconditional 72-hour ceasefire

[Wat dee]

 

 

 

I am uncertain what you mean by demanding to be recognized as a Jewish State, but if so, whats the problem? Israel is a Jewish State inasmuch as America was inherrently Judeo-Christian. Israel's insistence on this point is a simple reduction of two basic demands: 1) Recognition of the State or Israel, and 2), recognition of Jews right to exist. How is this moving goalposts? Israel has always asserted that recognition is a precondition for talks at all!

 

 

The US may be "inherently Judeo-Christian", but that is not the same as it being a declared Christian State. Or a Jewish State. Or an Islamic state. The US specifically and consciously promotes freedom of religious expression - even though it may at times lead to fundamentalist fanatics - like Timothy McVeigh.

 

The concept of a"Jewish" state becomes quite problematic when one remembers that 20% of the citizens of Israel are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim or Christian - and probably with a few atheists / agnostics as well. So, I have no problem with "inherently" Jewish part of the concept (similar to the USA), but the proposal from Netanyahu is for a formally declared basic law that enshrines a "Jewish State".  But if this is a basic law, which will takes precedence when it conflicts with other basic laws that enshrine democratic principles? This proposal rings alarm bells all the way back to Europe in the 1930s.

 

 

I don't get your point. Different countries have different political systems. There are MANY Islamic theocracies. Then there are many democracies. Israel doesn't need to have the exact same kind of democracy as the USA any more than Thailand does. Zionism is about POLITICAL SELF DETERMINATION for the Jewish people and it was realized in the state of Israel. Yes, most Jews want that state to exist. It's not unreasonable considering the history of the the Jews. 

 

Most jews also want Palestinian state and peace.

So whos unreasonable considering Palestinians history past half century?

[Wat dee]

I don't understand how mostly German and Polish people can claim someone else's (African)land ? 

Especially when they were not under any threat in their OWN land!?

[Wat dee]

 

 

 

 

ggold wrote: Why don't you just come out and say Israel shouldn't exist, after all that seems to be the gist of you're posts?

 

Far far from it. I accept the State of Israel. There is no turning back the clock 100 years or 2,000 years even.

 

But if Israel could accept its borders of 47 years ago (plus a spot of horse trading), they could gradually ratchet down the conflict , and within a few years be living side by side in peace with its neighbors. 

 

 

If there is no turning back the clock 100 years or 2,000 by what logic are we turning it back 47 years?

If we can turn it back 47 years why not then turn it back to 69CE?

 

I think most here agree that history is relevant to inform our choices, and avoid pitfalls, but utterly useless as pretext. Yet you would do just the thing you admonish against- turning back the clock.

 

 

Because ...

turning back the clock 100 years when they were a majority would suit the Palestinians

turning back the clock 2000 years would suit the Jewish Israelis

 

turning back the clock 47 years to the 1967 borders is within living memory and will achieve peace for both the Palestinians and Israelis..its a compromise accepted by the PA and all Arab countries, and almost got over the line at the Camp David summit in 2000 between Arafat and Ehud Barak. It was sooo close...what a tragedy.

 

 

If there is no nation Palestine, how can there be Palestinians?

 

There were people living in the so called Palestine, Egyptians and Jordanians, their right of return would be Jordan and Egypt.

 

Yasser Arafat was Egyptian demanding right of return, only to return to Palestine?

 

With so many arab countries, why have they not absolved so called Palestinians? Keep in mind the so called Palestinians are arabs.

 

With such strong support of Arab world, why none of them have opened their borders for refugees? None at all

 

Jordan keeps them under armed guard in camps for decades now

 

In the current conflict, with all the noise and outrage, not only none of the arab countries opened its borders to take on civilians, but they hardly provide any aid.

 

What has Hamas done to protect its people?

 

Hamas had enough building materials to build endless tunnels, but not enough building materials to build infrastructure?

 

Hospitals are short of medication, yet Hamas is NOT short of rockets?

 

Government employees have not been paid because of bad economy and blockade yet Hamas had enough money for hundreds of thousands of rockets and building material for the tunnels? used ONLY to attack Israel?

 

If you actually bother to think and open your eyes, the "right of return" is an excuse of Arab world using their own brothers as pawns to wage proxy war against Israel and the West.

 

They are well aware, it is simply impossible and would never happened and this is why they insist on it.

 

PA has never compromised on anything at all, EVER!!! and i dare you to show me other wise.

 

Current Hamas demands are the Israel lifts the blockade, and what does Hamas offer in return? NOTHING, not even a promise to stop firing rockets in the near future

 

Hamas demands Egypt opens its border? Only being well aware this has nothing to do with Israel.

 

Hamas is claiming population in Gaza has no electricity, but just a week ago or so, Hamas targeted and did hit plant supplying electricity in Gaza.

 

Now the world is up in arms about Israel, but why has not anyone asked simple question? which is What has and what is Hamas doing to protect its civilians?

 

It is the duty of government and army to protect its civilians and the answer would be???

 

So You expect other countries to solve Israelis Palestinian  problem. 

You are not fooling anyone and time is running out.

[Wat dee]

 

Hamas have offered an indefinite truce and recognition of Israel in its 1967 borders

 

 

A leader of Hamas was interviewed on CNN just two days ago where he made it crystal clear that Hamas did not recognize the State of Israel.  So again we see that both sides are led by failures, pick a side and become a failure too.

 

In this matter I would not trust CNN as a trust worthy source.

[Ulysses G.]

 

 

One simply cannot dismiss the historical context. This knowledge informs any understanding of credibility, roads to success in peace, and areas where pressure should be brought to leverage peace. "Palestinians" do not want peace. They want to force, at any cost, Israel to reveal it's disproportionate power, it might, it's "Holacuast-like" behavior toward local Arab Muslims. They want to cripple Israel in the court of public opinion. They want to leverage International recognition into legislative condemnation of Israel. By victimization they further this perception. Utterly a tool of total war; an underdog tool. They also want to borrow time in the hopes other regional players join the fray, or another intifada can be mustered.

 

 

You talk as if someone had just found a dusty 2,000 year old title deed in a Jerusalem cellar granting ownership of all Palestine to Jews only in an unbroken hereditary link. The old title deed is quite fanciful of course, but the unbroken hereditary link is even more incredible. There is a fascinating item on wiki about the Right of Return

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return#Eligibility_requirements

 

With all the inter marriage and conversions the present Jewish population in Israel contains hundreds of thousands of non Jews.

 

In reply to your other ridiculous claim:  "Palestinians do not want peace”

 

Hamas have offered an indefinite truce and recognition of Israel in its 1967 borders

 

http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915

 

PA and all Arab countries in 2002 and 2007 have offered to recognize Israel in secure permanent borders.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

 

http://www.timesofisrael.com/why-is-israel-so-afraid-of-the-arab-peace-initiative/

 

One group of farsighted Israelis have tried to accommodate the Arab Peace Initiative with their own Israeli Peace Initiative in 2011, but I think that has foundered as Israeli politics grows more right wing.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Peace_Initiative

 

Authors of initiative that calls for two-state solution with 1967 borders say Prime Minister Netanyahu could win public support for their peace proposal

 

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4053199,00.html

 

A group of businessmen, former defense establishment officials and leading professors presented before the press on Wednesday the "Israeli Peace Initiative" that aims to restart the stalled Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, and urged Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to adopt their proposal.

 

 

From your quoted post above:

 

In reply to your other ridiculous claim:  "Palestinians do not want peace”

 

Hamas have offered an indefinite truce and recognition of Israel in its 1967 borders

 

 

An "indefinite truce" is not a peace treaty.  If the Palestinians want peace, then sign a peace treaty.

 

 

 

Besides that, dexterm is  - once again - being deceitful. Hamas have made it very clear that they will not recognize Israel and it has been pointed out to him repeatedly, but he keeps pretending otherwise and continues to post the same exact nonsense that has already been discredited. 

[konying]

So You expect other countries to solve Israelis Palestinian  problem. 
You are not fooling anyone and time is running out.

 
No, i expect for countries who supposedly care so much to do little more than just sit and talk.
 
I also expect for those countries to supply aid instead of weapons if they REALLY care about their brothers

[arjunadawn]

 

One simply cannot dismiss the historical context. This knowledge informs any understanding of credibility, roads to success in peace, and areas where pressure should be brought to leverage peace. "Palestinians" do not want peace. They want to force, at any cost, Israel to reveal it's disproportionate power, it might, it's "Holacuast-like" behavior toward local Arab Muslims. They want to cripple Israel in the court of public opinion. They want to leverage International recognition into legislative condemnation of Israel. By victimization they further this perception. Utterly a tool of total war; an underdog tool. They also want to borrow time in the hopes other regional players join the fray, or another intifada can be mustered.
 

 
You talk as if someone had just found a dusty 2,000 year old title deed in a Jerusalem cellar granting ownership of all Palestine to Jews only in an unbroken hereditary link. The old title deed is quite fanciful of course, but the unbroken hereditary link is even more incredible. There is a fascinating item on wiki about the Right of Return
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return#Eligibility_requirements
 
With all the inter marriage and conversions the present Jewish population in Israel contains hundreds of thousands of non Jews.
 
In reply to your other ridiculous claim:  "Palestinians do not want peace
 
Hamas have offered an indefinite truce and recognition of Israel in its 1967 borders
 
http://www.haaretz.com/news/haniyeh-hamas-willing-to-accept-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders-1.256915
 
PA and all Arab countries in 2002 and 2007 have offered to recognize Israel in secure permanent borders.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative
 
http://www.timesofisrael.com/why-is-israel-so-afraid-of-the-arab-peace-initiative/
 
One group of farsighted Israelis have tried to accommodate the Arab Peace Initiative with their own Israeli Peace Initiative in 2011, but I think that has foundered as Israeli politics grows more right wing.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Peace_Initiative
 
Authors of initiative that calls for two-state solution with 1967 borders say Prime Minister Netanyahu could win public support for their peace proposal
 
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4053199,00.html
 
A group of businessmen, former defense establishment officials and leading professors presented before the press on Wednesday the "Israeli Peace Initiative" that aims to restart the stalled Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, and urged Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to adopt their proposal.
 

 
From your quoted post above:
 
In reply to your other ridiculous claim:  "Palestinians do not want peace
 
Hamas have offered an indefinite truce and recognition of Israel in its 1967 borders
 
 
An "indefinite truce" is not a peace treaty.  If the Palestinians want peace, then sign a peace treaty.

It was an offer of fallacy. The 1967 borders were the very mechanism that enabled attacking Israel. The borders are the discussion of final status, not a starting point. Moreover, you cannot sign a peace treaty with that which is not a State. Signing it pending this status ipso facto gives in treaty that which can only be resolved in final status. It was one more offer from which no impartial person can conclude Israel should respond. In accepting these also, poison pill offers Israel defeats the reason it seeks it's goals in negotiations.
Moreover, one must then ask to what end do we offer to terrorists that which is the sovereign coffer of the State.

[arjunadawn]

 
I am uncertain what you mean by demanding to be recognized as a Jewish State, but if so, whats the problem? Israel is a Jewish State inasmuch as America was inherrently Judeo-Christian. Israel's insistence on this point is a simple reduction of two basic demands: 1) Recognition of the State or Israel, and 2), recognition of Jews right to exist. How is this moving goalposts? Israel has always asserted that recognition is a precondition for talks at all!
 

 
The US may be "inherently Judeo-Christian", but that is not the same as it being a declared Christian State. Or a Jewish State. Or an Islamic state. The US specifically and consciously promotes freedom of religious expression - even though it may at times lead to fundamentalist fanatics - like Timothy McVeigh.
 
The concept of a"Jewish" state becomes quite problematic when one remembers that 20% of the citizens of Israel are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim or Christian - and probably with a few atheists / agnostics as well. So, I have no problem with "inherently" Jewish part of the concept (similar to the USA), but the proposal from Netanyahu is for a formally declared basic law that enshrines a "Jewish State".  But if this is a basic law, which will takes precedence when it conflicts with other basic laws that enshrine democratic principles? This proposal rings alarm bells all the way back to Europe in the 1930s.

 

At first glance I don't like this either. I don't like theocracies. Yet, the absence of the obvious screams from your point: is it then ok to have Muslim states? Indeed, the US has substantially built at least two Muslim states in past 15 years. There are of course others. Also, these are not democratic states. While I find it objectionable it's true, as many Semitic people have noted, US form of democracy cannot be the only form; indeed, democracy was Greek and varied considerably. Can one have a primarily religious state and defend the rights of minorities? Israel does it now but within the context that it will remain Jewish. So what? It is a Jewish state just as Thailand is Buudhist. Since when do majority stake-holders need to commit identity suck die to have representative government? You fear it cannot be impartial yet Arabs fare better under Israeli democracy then throughout the Muslim world. You don't hear of mass exodus lately, only trying to get it.

[simple1]

 

 

 

I am uncertain what you mean by demanding to be recognized as a Jewish State, but if so, whats the problem? Israel is a Jewish State inasmuch as America was inherrently Judeo-Christian. Israel's insistence on this point is a simple reduction of two basic demands: 1) Recognition of the State or Israel, and 2), recognition of Jews right to exist. How is this moving goalposts? Israel has always asserted that recognition is a precondition for talks at all!

 

 

The US may be "inherently Judeo-Christian", but that is not the same as it being a declared Christian State. Or a Jewish State. Or an Islamic state. The US specifically and consciously promotes freedom of religious expression - even though it may at times lead to fundamentalist fanatics - like Timothy McVeigh.

 

The concept of a"Jewish" state becomes quite problematic when one remembers that 20% of the citizens of Israel are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim or Christian - and probably with a few atheists / agnostics as well. So, I have no problem with "inherently" Jewish part of the concept (similar to the USA), but the proposal from Netanyahu is for a formally declared basic law that enshrines a "Jewish State".  But if this is a basic law, which will takes precedence when it conflicts with other basic laws that enshrine democratic principles? This proposal rings alarm bells all the way back to Europe in the 1930s.

 

 

I don't get your point. Different countries have different political systems. There are MANY Islamic theocracies. Then there are many democracies. Israel doesn't need to have the exact same kind of democracy as the USA any more than Thailand does. Zionism is about POLITICAL SELF DETERMINATION for the Jewish people and it was realized in the state of Israel. Yes, most Jews want that state to exist. It's not unreasonable considering the history of the the Jews. 

 

 

Do you really support Israel becoming a sectarian State?

 

[F430murci]

 

Hamas have offered an indefinite truce and recognition of Israel in its 1967 borders

 
 
A leader of Hamas was interviewed on CNN just two days ago where he made it crystal clear that Hamas did not recognize the State of Israel.  So again we see that both sides are led by failures, pick a side and become a failure too.
 

In this matter I would not trust CNN as a trust worthy source.

Ignorant statement from an uninformed or ignorant person. I am watching CNN right now with Hamas and Pakestine individuals making their case and CNN condemning the shelling of Islamic University in Gaza and bodies everywhere that they cannot get ambulances to.

Israel ambassador is on right now blasting CNN for not presenting Israel's side that Hamas is no different than Al-Queda and for not presenting Israel's side accurately. Reporter responded that CNN has a duty to present all sides. Perhaps you should arm yourself with SOME facts before spewing your ignorant, uninformed thoughts that bear very little resemblance to reality.

[7by7]

The pro Israeli lobby continuously bang on that allowing displaced Palestinians a right of return is wrong.

 

What about the Israeli Law of Return?

 

Can one of you please explain why you believe it is wrong for displaced Palestinian refugees to return home, but it is it right for any Jew or even anyone with Jewish ancestry to move to and live in Israel and obtain Israeli citizenship?

 Several people have tried to answer this; and their answers can easily be summed up thus:

 

Jewish people have rights; non Jewish people don't!

 

With that sort of attitude, how can there ever be peace?

 

Yes, I am aware that attitudes on the other side are just as entrenched.

[Jingthing]

Most Israelis are Jews and most Israeli Jews desire that Israel continue to have a majority population of Jewish people. You could say the same thing about Thailand and Thais and many other nations. But somehow, one time in history when the tiny minority of Jews want this, so many people freak out and won't accept that right of self determination. 

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, I am aware that attitudes on the other side are just as entrenched.

Then why are you obsessed with lecturing the Jews and mostly giving the Muslims a pass?

[Jingthing]

Do you really support Israel becoming a sectarian State?

 

 

That's up to the Israelis. If they go more right wing or more religious than I'd like, that's their business (as I don't plan on migrating there). Personally, I would prefer an Israeli democracy that is not a theocracy, has a majority demographic of Jewish people (religious and secular), that continues to honor the Jewish right of return, that promotes the best elements of Jewish ethical culture at home and abroad, and that somehow against all odds finds a way to make peace with the Palestinians (but it takes two to tango and for some time now, nobody is DANCING). 

[ABCer]

You, posters of pro and con Israel, are lecturing and trying to 'educate' each other.  Don't waste your time.  People not willing to see, hear or feel - never will.  And this applies to both camps.

 

Israel has a Natural, God given right to live, exist and strive for happiness like any other country.  Whether you like it or not. 

 

Hamas is an unconditional sworn enemy of this Israeli right.

 

I always had a high regard for Israeli common sense.

 

 Can not see it in:

 

- ceasefire.  Only needed by Hamas to regroup, re-arm, pull out their terrorists from imminent destruction maybe save some not yet discovered tunnels.

- any talks with Hamas.  This is a Terrorist organization with members loosely connected - thus rockets will keep coming and very soon.

- giving Gaza back to Hamas.  This was a treacherous and stupid act by politicians paid now for by soldier's and civilian's lives - on both sides.

 

If Israelis do not destroy Hamas as political and military force there will be more wars, more deaths - on both sides.

 

Any deaths in Gaza - on both sides are responsibility of Hamas not Israel (except for the mentioned politicians).

 

No, I'm not a warmonger and not an Israeli.  Just happen to have my own opinion shared by some Senators and Congressmen of the USA. 

 

 

[up-country_sinclair]

 

 

I am uncertain what you mean by demanding to be recognized as a Jewish State, but if so, whats the problem? Israel is a Jewish State inasmuch as America was inherrently Judeo-Christian. Israel's insistence on this point is a simple reduction of two basic demands: 1) Recognition of the State or Israel, and 2), recognition of Jews right to exist. How is this moving goalposts? Israel has always asserted that recognition is a precondition for talks at all!

 

 

The US may be "inherently Judeo-Christian", but that is not the same as it being a declared Christian State. Or a Jewish State. Or an Islamic state. The US specifically and consciously promotes freedom of religious expression - even though it may at times lead to fundamentalist fanatics - like Timothy McVeigh.

 

The concept of a"Jewish" state becomes quite problematic when one remembers that 20% of the citizens of Israel are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim or Christian - and probably with a few atheists / agnostics as well. So, I have no problem with "inherently" Jewish part of the concept (similar to the USA), but the proposal from Netanyahu is for a formally declared basic law that enshrines a "Jewish State".  But if this is a basic law, which will takes precedence when it conflicts with other basic laws that enshrine democratic principles? This proposal rings alarm bells all the way back to Europe in the 1930s.

 

 

 

Suddenly demanding that Israel be recognized as a Jewish state was an obvious attempt to move the goalposts.  Who doesn't believe that if the Arabs decided to accept this demand (and of course they'd be crazy to do so), that Israel would move the goalposts again?

 

Israel doesn't want peace.

[Ulysses G.]

Israel has always been a Jewish state. That is why it was created. 

[up-country_sinclair]

Can someone explain to me how an IDF soldier can be "kidnapped"?  Surely we can agree that he/she may have been"captured".

 

But then again Israel and its apologists have their own glossary that they use for PR purposes.  Just look at the posts on these threads declaring as FACT (caps used with a deep sense of sarcasm) what the term "antisemitic" means and how and when it can be applied, what constitutes  "murder" and what does not, what is a "hate crime" and what isn't.  The list goes on and it's as absurd as it is long.

[Jingthing]

Israel has always been a Jewish state. That is why it was created. 

True and Israel can't ever accept unconditional right of return for any and all Arabs making a claim and continue to exist as Israel. I know it offends people that Jews have demanding such a state dominated by Jewish people, but funny, I don't hear them complain about the many other states that have a dominant ethnicity. 

[Ulysses G.]

Can someone explain to me how an IDF soldier can be "kidnapped"?  Surely we can agree that he/she may have been"captured".

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Hamas violated a ceasefire that they had agreed to to do it. These terrorists violated all the laws of war, but, of course, it is to be expected of them.

[Jingthing]

Can someone explain to me how an IDF soldier can be "kidnapped"?  Surely we can agree that he/she may have been"captured".

 

But then again Israel and its apologists have their own glossary that they use for PR purposes.  Just look at the posts on these threads declaring as FACT (caps used with a deep sense of sarcasm) what the term "antisemitic" means and how and when it can be applied, what constitutes  "murder" and what does not, what is a "hate crime" and what isn't.  The list goes on and it's as absurd as it is long.

Mark the date, we agree. Don't faint. Yes, a soldier isn't kidnapped. They are captured. Civilians are kidnapped. 

 

Enough already with the obsession about not understanding the definition of antisemitism. How about Judeophobia used like Islamophobia and homophobia. Does that work for ya?

[Jingthing]

Israeli PM is apparently possessed by the devil, Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega said, urging Pope Francis to cast out his demons. Ortega also called on the international community to impose sanctions on Israel for the military action in Gaza.

"Prime Minister Netanyahu appears to be possessed by the devil, he needs Pope Francis to exorcise it, to become appeased, Ortega was quoted by Globovision as saying.

"Why doesn't anyone condemn or sanction the state of Israel?" wondered the president of Nicaragua. In his opinion, Palestine is the victim of "madness" on the part of the Israeli leader, who seeks to annihilate the Palestinian people.

For Ortega, Israel is committing genocide in the Gaza Strip, a crime so terrible that it is only comparable to the crimes of the Nazis."

Big deal. Ortega is a horrible corrupt man. His opinion is of no relevance. 

[uptheos]

Can someone explain to me how an IDF soldier can be "kidnapped"?  Surely we can agree that he/she may have been"captured".

 

 

You really do know very little, don't you.

A capture takes place during the time of war

A kidnapping takes place during a time of truce, i.e  non war agreed by both factions, regardless of how short a time.

[up-country_sinclair]

 

Can someone explain to me how an IDF soldier can be "kidnapped"?  Surely we can agree that he/she may have been"captured".

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Hamas violated a ceasefire that they had agreed to to do it. These terrorists violated all the laws of war, but, of course, it is to be expected of them.

 

 

 

What?

 

How does that even begin to address my question?  Can you imagine any other government saying that a member of its military had been "kidnapped"?  I can't. 

 

Israel and its apologists use this term for PR purposes. 

[Ulysses G.]

 

Can someone explain to me how an IDF soldier can be "kidnapped"?  Surely we can agree that he/she may have been"captured".

 
You really do know very little, don't you.
A capture takes place during the time of war
A kidnapping takes place during a time of truce, i.e  non war agreed by both factions, regardless of how short a time.

 

Makes perfect sense to me.

[up-country_sinclair]

 

A kidnapping takes place during a time of truce, i.e  non war agreed by both factions, regardless of how short a time.

 

 

Maybe they can put a picture of the "kidnapped" IDF soldier on the side of a milk carton. 

[arjunadawn]

 

 

 

I am uncertain what you mean by demanding to be recognized as a Jewish State, but if so, whats the problem? Israel is a Jewish State inasmuch as America was inherrently Judeo-Christian. Israel's insistence on this point is a simple reduction of two basic demands: 1) Recognition of the State or Israel, and 2), recognition of Jews right to exist. How is this moving goalposts? Israel has always asserted that recognition is a precondition for talks at all!

 

 

The US may be "inherently Judeo-Christian", but that is not the same as it being a declared Christian State. Or a Jewish State. Or an Islamic state. The US specifically and consciously promotes freedom of religious expression - even though it may at times lead to fundamentalist fanatics - like Timothy McVeigh.

 

The concept of a"Jewish" state becomes quite problematic when one remembers that 20% of the citizens of Israel are Arabs, most of whom are Muslim or Christian - and probably with a few atheists / agnostics as well. So, I have no problem with "inherently" Jewish part of the concept (similar to the USA), but the proposal from Netanyahu is for a formally declared basic law that enshrines a "Jewish State".  But if this is a basic law, which will takes precedence when it conflicts with other basic laws that enshrine democratic principles? This proposal rings alarm bells all the way back to Europe in the 1930s.

 

 

 

Suddenly demanding that Israel be recognized as a Jewish state was an obvious attempt to move the goalposts.  Who doesn't believe that if the Arabs decided to accept this demand (and of course they'd be crazy to do so), that Israel would move the goalposts again?

 

Israel doesn't want peace.

 

 

I don't get it. Israel has been generally recognized as a Jewish State since inception. I don't think there is anything new here, certainly no parameters moved. Israel wants, what is actually meaningless to stop war anyway, recognition as a state, and also recognition of the right to exist at all. The assertion that Israel does not want peace is absurd. That Israel does not want peace at any cost is evident and declared. Peace, for the sake of peace, will not stand unless its construction preserves the ability of Israel to defend itself; basically the minimum required of any peoples.

 

While receipt of Nobel prizes is not conclusive it is suggestive that peace would enable Israel to excel as a nation of research and development, technology, medical devices, etc. Israel needs peace. Israel cannot exist indefinitely on such shifting military sands. Israel knows this. Accusations, like "Israel does not want peace" are devoid of intellectual depth and context. (Its really quite amazing I find myself an apologist for Israel. All the friends I have in the middle east are Arabs; no Israelis. Yet, facts persist irrespective of bias masking as fact).

[Jingthing]

I don't see a problem with using captured in that context and if the Israeli government insists on the word kidnapped, I would think they probably shouldn't. A soldier in uniform doing military work during a truce is still a soldier. In any case, the soldier we were referring to is apparently dead now. RIP. 

[Ulysses G.]

Full Definition of KIDNAP
transitive verb
: to seize and detain or carry away by unlawful force or fraud and often with a demand for ransom
— kid·nap·pee or kid·nap·ee noun
— kid·nap·per also kid·nap·er noun

 

Ransom - like the release of a bunch of convicted murderers

[up-country_sinclair]

the soldier we were referring to is apparently dead now. 

 

Well, this is what happens when Israelis elect such extreme right wing governments.  They really have no one to blame but themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Isn't that how the tune goes?