The Thai Schooling system - just how bad is it?

[Deacon Bell]

i have 15 years teaching experience in the US, 6 years here in Thailand. I suggest to you that the parents matter more than the school.

You're absolutely correct.

[David48]

I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old, both go to a preschool that I think is rather good. But just as importantly I supplement their education at home, filling in gaps when needed.

Good luck with your kids, their picture is adorable.

Thanks for the reply wlcart ... I have ran out of likes for the moment.

Is it usual / normal to send a 2 yo to pre-school?

It's a genuine question as my experience with Thai kids are through my Partners Nieces and Nephew and the youngest was already attending school when I met her Family.

The boys had their 6 month birthday last week.

So, thoughts on their schooling is still a few years away, but it's a major decision and takes some forward planning.

.

[David48]

I'm having major problems with my son at a big international school in Chiang Mai. They failed him last year so when I got back here I tried to see why. Turns out he can't read or write properly yet. He is 13. All the school was interested in is that he must do his homework. I asked how he can do his homework if he can't read?

I get a phone call this morning. I cut his hair last night, short but apparently it's not short enough for them. I had to ask, I never get contacted by the school about the fact he can't read or how he is failing and what can we do about it, no. I get a call about his hair is 1mm too long. Hair police.

No one is interested in helping you help your child. I think he may be dyslexic but I'm no professional. What do I do? In the west the school would give you some help and direction about how to help a struggling child. Here, It's up to you to sort that out for yourself. No school will ever tell you your kid needs help for fear of loss of face for the parents.

I thought this rather, er completely abs...CENSORED rule had been abolished? Girls in my area are now growing their hair out, though I'd hadn't noticed the boys

Ah yes, I totally forgot about the hair thing.

Bloody stupid rule. It's only meant to perpetuate an atmosphere of regimentation. Should be stopped. Thai public schools (or all public schools, actually) aren't worth going to just for that reason.

Isn't the girls shorter hair cut assisting with stopping the spread of Head Lice?

I watched the Farm Family take turns combing the youngest girls hair to rid the lice (along with the chemical treatments) and it seemed much less frequent when she got the obligatory 'bob' hairstyle.

I'm asking, not telling

.

[mok199]

Hi David,

I was a language teacher here for twenty years so I am more than qualified to tell you how it is. The Thai education system suppresses any creativity and imagination from K1 onwards. The kids are programmed to be followers and are taught how to remember stuff in order to pass an exam. By the end of grade 6, you have a young person with almost zero imagination and no initiative. The kids sorely lack analytical skills and are unable to work together in groups to problem solve. International schools do not follow this concept by the way so if the funds can stretch then you will get a decent education for your kids. Seriously consider this before sending your kids to a Thai school.

Personally have two boys here, both at Uni now, I gave them the input they needed outside of school hours from day one and subsequently they are above average regarding thinking outside the box.

Rote learning is the norm here and I don't see anything on the horizon that will change it.

i enjoyed reading your post,an i agree 110%,the thai education system is poor,and i blame this partly on the langauge,which at is at best elemntary and repititious and at its worst is elementary and crude,i have a 2 mnth old,my wife speaks no english and we speak thai all day,i now have to decide when to teach her english so we dont pollute my sons future,i want my son to think and create and question and feel fullfilled,and hopefull, with out feeling obligated to use the word``krap``(which just drives me crazy,i know it is thier culture,but),thais dont have the abilty to express them selves becuase the language,and the ciriculum, wont allow it,so they use the same phrases,the same old worn out lesson`s and the same silly songs, over and over.which keeps them stuck ,supressed and robotic...one mans opinion

[carter1882]

Mok,

Be very careful not to play too large a part in your son's education. You seem to have a rather large piece of man farang on your shoulder regarding the Thai language. But please do take my advice re language, your wife should speak thai only to your son and you your native tongue, presumably English. In this way damage to him may be limited somewhat.

[AYJAYDEE]

Hi David,

I was a language teacher here for twenty years so I am more than qualified to tell you how it is. The Thai education system suppresses any creativity and imagination from K1 onwards. The kids are programmed to be followers and are taught how to remember stuff in order to pass an exam. By the end of grade 6, you have a young person with almost zero imagination and no initiative. The kids sorely lack analytical skills and are unable to work together in groups to problem solve. International schools do not follow this concept by the way so if the funds can stretch then you will get a decent education for your kids. Seriously consider this before sending your kids to a Thai school.

Personally have two boys here, both at Uni now, I gave them the input they needed outside of school hours from day one and subsequently they are above average regarding thinking outside the box.

Rote learning is the norm here and I don't see anything on the horizon that will change it.

i enjoyed reading your post,an i agree 110%,the thai education system is poor,and i blame this partly on the langauge,which at is at best elemntary and repititious and at its worst is elementary and crude,i have a 2 mnth old,my wife speaks no english and we speak thai all day,i now have to decide when to teach her english so we dont pollute my sons future,i want my son to think and create and question and feel fullfilled,and hopefull, with out feeling obligated to use the word``krap``(which just drives me crazy,i know it is thier culture,but),thais dont have the abilty to express them selves becuase the language,and the ciriculum, wont allow it,so they use the same phrases,the same old worn out lesson`s and the same silly songs, over and over.which keeps them stuck ,supressed and robotic...one mans opinion

your grasp of the thai language and its subtleties is lacking

[Newguy70]

I'm having major problems with my son at a big international school in Chiang Mai. They failed him last year so when I got back here I tried to see why. Turns out he can't read or write properly yet. He is 13. All the school was interested in is that he must do his homework. I asked how he can do his homework if he can't read?

I get a phone call this morning. I cut his hair last night, short but apparently it's not short enough for them. I had to ask, I never get contacted by the school about the fact he can't read or how he is failing and what can we do about it, no. I get a call about his hair is 1mm too long. Hair police.

No one is interested in helping you help your child. I think he may be dyslexic but I'm no professional. What do I do? In the west the school would give you some help and direction about how to help a struggling child. Here, It's up to you to sort that out for yourself. No school will ever tell you your kid needs help for fear of loss of face for the parents.

And loss of money. This was the main point presented to me in a roundabout way during several meetings with Thai faculty and a Thai teacher who was interpreting. Points expressed at an EP/ Mini EP meeting we're keep the kids happy...

[monkeyboots]

If you hate your kids educated them here .

'educated'? You're missing a comma, too.

[Deacon Bell]

If you hate your kids educated them here .

'educated'? You're missing a comma, too.

Real education happens at home, no matter where it is.

Perhaps Greg missed out..

[wlcart]

I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old, both go to a preschool that I think is rather good. But just as importantly I supplement their education at home, filling in gaps when needed.

Good luck with your kids, their picture is adorable.

Thanks for the reply wlcart ... I have ran out of likes for the moment.

Is it usual / normal to send a 2 yo to pre-school?

It's a genuine question as my experience with Thai kids are through my Partners Nieces and Nephew and the youngest was already attending school when I met her Family.

The boys had their 6 month birthday last week.

So, thoughts on their schooling is still a few years away, but it's a major decision and takes some forward planning.

.

Normal enough, I guess. She actually started when she was 16 months. But this is not an over academic pre-school, and some are just that. This school has 3 teachers to 10 kids, and focuses on socialization and creativity at that age.

My girl really seems to enjoy it, and she always has to do what her big sister does anyway, so I don't think i can stop her.

You certainly do not need to send your kids to pre-school, but it becomes really hard to keep them active if you don't. I hate seeing kids that have nothing to do all day. When my girls are at home, my wife and I make it a point to do activities with them. If you think you can keep them active and engaged each and everyday then no need for pre-school in my opinion, but like I said, that is not always easy to do. Pre-school for us just seems to make it easy to round out their day.

By the way, another great advantage in Thailand for young kids in our home and many others are grandparents. My wife's mom lives with us, she is old school Isaan and thinks way different than I do. I see that as a huge advantage for my kids. Yi is a bit goofy at times, but she is wonderful, kind, and genuine. I am grateful my kids have gotten to know her and have gotten in touch with their Thai side culture.

Of course, that is also because I can provide a western point of view too!

[claffey]

Education starts at home. A Thai school will prepare a Thai student for living in Thai society..Academic excellence and critical thinking can be instilled at home..ive just spent a yr teaching in the UK and would prefer if my son grows up with Thai values..Western teenagers spend too much time thinking about abstract subjects and not enough time on maths, science etc..Thats why we have virtually no doctors in the West and require Asian and African doctors to prop up our medical systems..a carefully chosen school in Thailand will help your children to develop the values and skills necessary to survive in Thailand..They may also turn into nice people too!! Its amazes me that so many people who are married to Thais attack the thai education system.does it mean that all their wives are uneducated? My wife went through the Thai education system and is more than capable of expressing an opinion.she is also much more open minded and respectful of other cultures than many westerners are!, Western arrogance often assumes that we know best..This colonial mindset makes westerners view Asia and the world through a western minded prism..dont be arrogant.find a good school for your children and supplement their education at home...there are many good schools in Thailand that will help your child grow andvdevelop into a well rounded Thai..good luck

Sent from my SM-T2105 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[isawasnake]

If you could be a fly on a wall in a classroom you would run. You would not even consider it. At the better schools that you may be thinking about, they may do a pretty good job with the "show" - the brochures and the general, overall bs, but the actual classrooms are a total disaster. Just the fact that your kids will be wasting 10% of their "education" staring at the Thai flag every morning should be enough. The Thai administration cares more about that damn morning assembly than they do with anything involving actual education. That says it all right there.

[KhnomKhnom]

And they are really cute little guys ! Congrats!

Thailand govt schools, what an American would call public schools, are EXCELLENT for what they were designed for. ... to prepare workers for assembly line, repetitive exacting, one-skill work. Also, to follow orders and do the job as assigned and not to think of a better way.

Because all of the jobs in Thailand for lower middle to low classes are either farm work or factory work, this method of schooling is ideal. It teaches doing and coping with standardized repetitive single skill.... pushing thousands of rice shoots into the ground or repeatedly putting part A into its slot into assembly Z.

So, the schools fit the jobs.

Now, if a parent wants something different, go to the international schools which are reputed to have international standards. A couple of visits should tell an alert parent which school to choose, and then also how to get the kid enrolled under limited enrollment numbers.

American schools, with notable few exceptions scattered around, current practice the Harvard U advice to school the child's ego, not so much his mind, with the goal of have the person think he is ok even if he flunks. This has given USA a couple of generations of people who think the world owes 'em a living. Now, Obama is trying to reverse this trend, with lots of outcries from parents whose egos are just fine!, in the Core thingy where actual achievement and the "whys" are taught again and failure is again possible. The Core will have a long fight and meanwhile your kid will be caught in that mess of change.

A good private school in America offers the best education for children in the world. Very expensive. Take your choice.

Home schooling requires a discipline that most adults just can not maintain. There are many distractions and excuses not to hold class today. Also, teaching is a learned skill, not something just anyone can do WELL via just love. Too, home schooling eliminates socialization with others, a huge drawback.

[smokie36]

Try to start a basic, really basic, conversation (about the food, the weather ...) with someone who graduated Bachelor with major in English, English Business Administration, ...

That will give you the answer.

Fair comment, and I'm sure you are not wrong.

But I'm sort of focused on their early learning needs ... they aren't even in Kindy (pre-school) yet!

.

On that score I would say that other than learning to read and write....in both Thai and English and developing a love of reading on their own the most important thing is socialising and enjoying life.

People put too much on kids nowadays....rethink it for when they reach double figures though I would think.

Being properly bilingual by age of six or seven will give them a major benefit over most kids.....and given their parents can teach both I don't think schooling is a major issue at primary level.

[kurnell]

My girls were in a Thai Kindergarten and learned nothing. Once they moved to an international school the difference as night and day. Yes, we are living on bread and water to afford the school fees, but at least they won't grow up simple.

Meh, my parents never sent me to an international school. I just stayed at home and studied whatever I wanted to. I was expelled from both the Western and Thai schools that I attended - yes, I was a very anti-social tween.

Is a tween a cross between a teen and a wally?

[ebean001]

ASk some Thai adults who have gone through the system what the answer to 7 times 5. I did and no one knew. I asked an 8th grader what is 75/25. I asked in thai. The answer - i don't know we had that in the 3rd grade and I have forgotten.

My step son came from the rice farm school system. He just completed the 5th grade. He was 12 out of 31 in his class. The private school in Chiang Mai wanted to test him to see if he was ready for the 6th grade. I asked for them to test him if he is ready for the 5th grade.

Out of 30 questions he got 0 right. After repeating the 5th grade in the private school I asked them to give him the same test. He got 13 right.

I find the biggest fault in Thai adults is they do not want to think. We farangs claim they live for the moment and i believe it is true because they do not want to 'think' or have never been trained to 'think'.

The 8th grader told me that the math teacher talks math, he listens but has no idea what she is saying. Then she gives them the answer to enter into their book.

I get the feeling the only thing they learn in school is the Thai language.

[Stokakrishna]

it's bad

bad

bad

[Seastallion]

Could you not teach them yourself David at least for the first 3-4 years??

That's a thought, but if it's as bad as everyone suggests then maybe better we haul our asses back to the West and educate the boys there.

I really would part of their life experience is at least 1 year in a Thai school because I want them to understand the Culture and the Thai Language so that, when they are men and making their own decisions, they can choose either Thailand or the West.

No decisions made yet, my partner and I will discuss this together, I just wanted to ask the direct question and receive the answers from the Forum so that I have some basic understand of the level and ability of the Thai Schooling System.

I have to say ... not looking promising to school them here.

We just have to weigh up, Visas, work opportunities for us both in either country, what's good and what is best for the boys and then decide.

To everyone who has replied ... thanks don't stop now.

.

No...there's a wealth of online resources....<deleted>! You can do it from here. Most home-schooled kids get extra education too, if their parents teach them the curriculum, because there's always so much more to learn that is not taught in schools. The trick is instilling a desire to learn at a very early age.

The way to do that is always show wonder at things...a butterfly or a train passing by, a spider web or how water makes a splash. Kids emulate. Always show curiosity and a desire to know more.

I have students (Thai) ranging in age from 4 to 18 that I teach or tutor English, science, electronics etc, and I honestly despair for the country. You don't have to head back, but you do have to take some responsibility as a parent and teach the boys to want to learn, to inquire, and to think outside the box.

Oh...and expose them to Beethoven and Mozart (Really!)

Heaven only knows why the acronym of Google Is Your Friend gets deleted! Makes it look as if I swore.

[RNguy]

My wife is a Thai high school teacher. She tells me about the crap that goes on in her school and what happens to her (now our) 11 year old son in the neighboring elementary school. It is all so ridiculous I would not know where to begin. She and he came for a visit to the States for her 2 month spring vacation and while here I had our boy go to my local school. From day one he was in love with his new school! I admit he is probably a better than average student as he has a mom with a more Japanese attitude toward education than Thai. Listening to the stories I could not imagine sending a kid to a Thai government school. You can do more in 2 hours or less each day than all the teachers will do for him in a Thai school. Get your kid involved in Khan Academy Online or something like it. Your kids will end up true leaders - perfect English speakers - and more prepared for life or Uni than any of the kids churned out of the public school system. Can't wait for her to finish this year so she can get her 25 year pension and then she and our son will be USA bound.

[thailand49]

I tell you first hand because I blame myself for the failure of my own son education here! First I never ask the question like you and I just took it for granted. The last few years as I got more involved I realized the system is so bad I doubt any of the University here can even hold a candle to a Community College in the States. The schools here especially in Pattaya is no more than a baby sitting service for the kids while the parents work.

Unless you have the money to send them to a good International School, get him away now from this culture that is the best thing one can do for their kids living here! It is all smoke and mirror but I take full responsibility for my decision and I lose sleep each night as to his future.

Good luck don't make the same mistake I made!

[duanebigsby]

I teach in a private, but not international, Thai school. It has many of the problems of the gov't schools which people have said.

My Thai co-teachers speak very good English and strive to make their classes more interesting, unlike other schools.

One thing I've noticed is that there are students who do think critically, and they do question me all the time. I have some very bright kids and when I question them about their parents, I find that the parents are heavily involved in those students' education.

I think you can send a kid to a Thai school and they can thrive with the right support from parents. But critical thinking, creativity, etc, those things come from home.

[duanebigsby]

thai schools are little better than no school ,i took mine to england first then france ,but hard to get on the system ,but then end result is good ,can you image thai girl ,that acts like french girl ,never dull moment

If I had a Thai daughter I'd want her to be Thai, not French.

[96tehtarp]

"The Thai Schooling system - just how bad is it?"

The government schools are pretty bad.

The semi-government and Roman Catholic schools are better.

The only kids I've seen who do OK are the ones who have really good parents who compensate for the poor quaintly schools at home.

Unfortunately there are a lot of Thai parents who see little value in schooling.

"My partner and I face the question of where to school them. Here or in the West."

To answer this question you have to ask yourselves which culture you want you children to identify more closely with.

"I have the feeling, from reading what you guys write about your experiences with Thai Schooling is that it's very 'cookie cutter' approach. Very 'rote learning'. That 2 + 2 = 4 ... rather then why 2 + 2 = 4."

There is a place for rote learning. My western schooling was "open-concept" and a disaster. My parents transferred me to a private school that had more emphasis on rote learning and it didn't hamper my creative thinking at all.

"Can that manufactured learning be compensated for by expanding their mind to be creative and investigative through encouraging that style of development in the home environment?"

Yes. Overseas experiences are very important, IMO.

[Deacon Bell]

It teaches doing and coping with standardized repetitive single skill....repeatedly putting part A into its slot into assembly Z.

I've known a few of those graduates! And they make good money let me tell you.

[Bung]

If you hate your kids educated them here .

Sounds like your educated worked well for you.

[Bung]

I've found a teacher with good experience who came by, had a long chat to her about my son and she did a assessment of him. She is of the mind he is not so bad and should be able to get him up to speed so that is promising.

Got a way to go, we all need to change and get him into a more disciplined routine, never easy with teenage boys.

I think a change of school, different environment and shake things up will go a long way to help.

[BAYBOY]

I have a story which goes...

A young boy from our village went to the local Govt. Primary school, roll around 200, then went to the local Govt. High School. His family background was not the best. His mother had the boy and his sister . Dad had long gone years ago. At both schools he was a top student (as such). In his last year at High School M6. He won a scholarship to study overseas. This was one of the best schemes former P.M. Taskin started .

He wanted to be an engineer and went to a university in France, the first year spent there learning French. Then he did his Batchelor degree, and returned to Thailand. Got employment in a local company making parts for sugar mills. After a couple of years he landed a job in another engineering company making on contract small items used in the Airbus. Loved it got a raise to 25000 a month and then a increase as he could now translate the information written in French sent by Airbus for their components. No one at the factory could read or speak French . All translations were done in Bangkok.

The push for his education even inflow keyed came from his mother. She never gave up in encouraging him.

To me proves a point or two. The emphasis on having a good education must come from the parents, one in his case.

And the child must show a willingness to learn and be part of the school.

How many children these days are expected to perform way above their abilities or desire.

You can lead the horse to water but will it drink?

BAYBOY .

[laolover88]

Bear with me!

We want the children to be comfortable and competent in their European and Thai culture. They need the three languages that they have. That is the best reason for attending Thai schools. I think that, while parents are important and good teachers, it is actually their peers..the other children and students that are most important. The children here have friends, their friends families all know them, so they have a real Thai community.

That is the plus. The minus is lazy incompetent and quite ignorant teachers with jobs for life, lack of facilities and the droning on about appearance..have to remember though that this an important aspect of Thai life..well for girls!

I would not touch International or so-called International schools. We have done those in Chiang Mai. I have my doubts about what they are doing here. We would rather spend 160,000B on going to Europe for a few months where we have really helpful schools who are happy for them to come and go than spend on an expat UK school

As a a litle end piece:

We have just been from Issan to MuangTongThani in BKK for an Inter-Province School English Language Drama Competition.

Only 15 Jangwat were able to produce an entry. It was difficult to hear any of the plays as there were simultaneously 5 orchestras and bands and a dozen other competitions going on in the same hall.

The standard of English ranged from the appalling to the unintelligible. The costumes and hairdo were of course amazing.The children from my daughter's school who speak good English did not win anything.

1. It was not fair that my daughter, who also speaks perfect Thai, was a luk khreung spoke perfect English and

2. My daughter "had quite clearly been teaching her friends"..

It was clearly not a competition of English Competence but of achievement of any kind of English learned from incompetent Thai teachers, together with a competition for make up, dresses and stage sets!! And anyway they came from Issan!

[Gimbo]

When we up-rooted and moved ourselves to my home country some years ago, my youngest step son was in forth grade in a village school in the sticks. Could not read and write. When his mother took him to arrange a pass port for him, she had to help him spell his name.

Now this could have been a case of dyslexia, except that within 6 months of arriving in my home country he was both reading and writing
my language perfectly (just could not understand the words yet). He entering his final year of junior high school now, and his grades could be better, but he is not doing to bad either. So he is not stupid...it helps that the teacher is sober and don't try to beat the crap out of you if you make a mistake.

Anyway, we are here because I could give the boys a chance of an education here, that I could not afford in Thailand...

[thailand49]

I teach in a private, but not international, Thai school. It has many of the problems of the gov't schools which people have said.

My Thai co-teachers speak very good English and strive to make their classes more interesting, unlike other schools.

One thing I've noticed is that there are students who do think critically, and they do question me all the time. I have some very bright kids and when I question them about their parents, I find that the parents are heavily involved in those students' education.

I think you can send a kid to a Thai school and they can thrive with the right support from parents. But critical thinking, creativity, etc, those things come from home.

My day is brighten whenever I hear stories like yours and others that Thai students can be successful in Thai school but from my experience living here for nearly 10 years that government schools might produce stories like yours like maybe 1% of their school population. You say right support from the parents! you are so right... I dropped my responsibility and my other half is too busy worrying about loosing face and unable to take any type of criticisms which from my experience is the majority of Thais who are below the middle class income. Your observation is a small % of the system I wish I was part of that small %, you teach at a good school my son school which is semi private school has maybe 1 or 2 teachers and I doubt they hold a candle to your qualification and is spread thin and has no English/Thai support for the English Teacher.

And I've yet to find a student who can quickly give me a answer to 9x9= without a calculator? How does one person fight a whole culture that is going no where?