Two Questions - Am I a tourist? Am I a border-runner?

[ScottMallon]

So... I don't know maybe it gives you guys some sort of erection saying "Get a visa."

A visa or a visa exemption isn't going to do me a whole hell of a lot of good if they have the same Out/In requirements attached to them. For example, would it be ok to stay in Thailand for 12 months on back to back Tourist Visas? No, it would not. He same as it wouldn't be ok to stay in Thailand for 12 months on back to back Visa Exemptions,

This isn't a question of convenience for me, or Tourist Visa vs Visa Exemption, but AM I LEAVING THE COUNTRY FOR A LONG ENOUGH AMOUNT OF TIME BEFORE COMING BACK- REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT'S A STICKER OR A STAMP IN MY PASSPORT.

 

If you're leaving the country for a long enough period of time before coming back, what are you worrying about?

 

It isn't okay to stay on back-to-back visa exemptions, and it might not be okay to stay on a single-entry tourist visa, extended, and renewed for a year. Better to get the double or triple entry visa if you can. 

You got the answers—from several people—TRYING to help you. If you don't change the input data, nothing is going to change those answers no matter how badly you want them to change. Get a visa or take your chances. Those are your options. It is very simple if you are accepting of the answers. If you're not, you might as well keep banging your head on the wall because all you're after is a magical cure that isn't available.

[loltron]

So... I don't know maybe it gives you guys some sort of erection saying "Get a visa."

A visa or a visa exemption isn't going to do me a whole hell of a lot of good if they have the same Out/In requirements attached to them. For example, would it be ok to stay in Thailand for 12 months on back to back Tourist Visas? No, it would not. He same as it wouldn't be ok to stay in Thailand for 12 months on back to back Visa Exemptions,

This isn't a question of convenience for me, or Tourist Visa vs Visa Exemption, but AM I LEAVING THE COUNTRY FOR A LONG ENOUGH AMOUNT OF TIME BEFORE COMING BACK- REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT'S A STICKER OR A STAMP IN MY PASSPORT.

 
If you're leaving the country for a long enough period of time before coming back, what are you worrying about? OP: WHAT IS "ENOUGH"?
 
It isn't okay to stay on back-to-back visa exemptions, and it might not be okay to stay on a single-entry tourist visa, extended, and renewed for a year. Better to get the double or triple entry visa if you can. 

You got the answersfrom several peopleTRYING to help you. If you don't change the input data, nothing is going to change those answers no matter how badly you want them to change. Get a visa or take your chances. Those are your options. It is very simple if you are accepting of the answers. If you're not, you might as well keep banging your head on the wall because all you're after is a magical cure that isn't available.

Like I said before, I don't mind getting a Tourist Visa.

The following was a question, not a statement-

Am I leaving the country for a long enough amount of time before coming back? Regardless of whether it's a sticker or a stamp in my passport.

Of course it's less convenient, but that's not the point. Tourist Visa or Visa Exemption, I'm still coming in and out of Thailand a lot. Is it too much with a visa exemption or tourist visa? How long should I stay outside the country before returning? It seems we don't yet know the answers to these questions. Edited August 3, 2014 by loltron

[simon43]

My girlfriend (Canadian) lives and works in Bangkok with a proper visa and work permit. She gets quite a bit of vacation (guess the profession!)

 

I'm too polite to guess the profession

[AYJAYDEE]

 

 

So... I don't know maybe it gives you guys some sort of erection saying "Get a visa."

A visa or a visa exemption isn't going to do me a whole hell of a lot of good if they have the same Out/In requirements attached to them. For example, would it be ok to stay in Thailand for 12 months on back to back Tourist Visas? No, it would not. He same as it wouldn't be ok to stay in Thailand for 12 months on back to back Visa Exemptions,

This isn't a question of convenience for me, or Tourist Visa vs Visa Exemption, but AM I LEAVING THE COUNTRY FOR A LONG ENOUGH AMOUNT OF TIME BEFORE COMING BACK- REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT'S A STICKER OR A STAMP IN MY PASSPORT.

 
If you're leaving the country for a long enough period of time before coming back, what are you worrying about? OP: WHAT IS "ENOUGH"?
 
It isn't okay to stay on back-to-back visa exemptions, and it might not be okay to stay on a single-entry tourist visa, extended, and renewed for a year. Better to get the double or triple entry visa if you can. 

You got the answersfrom several peopleTRYING to help you. If you don't change the input data, nothing is going to change those answers no matter how badly you want them to change. Get a visa or take your chances. Those are your options. It is very simple if you are accepting of the answers. If you're not, you might as well keep banging your head on the wall because all you're after is a magical cure that isn't available.

Like I said before, I don't mind getting a Tourist Visa. Of course it's less convenient, but that's not the point. Tourist Visa or Visa Exemption, I'm still coming in and out of Thailand a lot. Is it too much with a visa exemption or tourist visa? How long should I stay outside the country before returning? It seems we don't yet know the answers to these questions.

The following was a question, not a statement-

AM I LEAVING THE COUNTRY FOR A LONG ENOUGH AMOUNT OF TIME BEFORE COMING BACK? REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT'S A STICKER OR A STAMP IN MY PASSPORT.

 

and nobody knows for sure so get the visa and improve your odds. and please stop shouting

[OumarhindaOunsingha]

I guess he wants to know about the secret visa but i am not telling.

 

 

 

 

Secret visa? What is that? Share, please :)

[loltron]

I guess he wants to know about the secret visa but i am not telling.
 

 
 
 
Secret visa? What is that? Share, please :)

Sure thing just wire me 500k baht and I'll get your sorted.

[dsfbrit]

Loltron, I think you need to understand that the proposed tougher enforcement of the visa / visa exempt rules over here in Thailand seem to be quite substantial. Actual reports from people leaving and entering Thailand will only be truly relevant after August 12th when the new enforcement officially starts all over Thailand (airports as well). It will then take several weeks or months as travelers reports filter through, to get a true picture of how this enforcement is actually being enacted.

 

So the (good) advice you are getting here from some long term Expats, is that we don't really know what will be an acceptable way to fulfill your requirement over the coming period. In fact nobody anywhere knows what will happen exactly when the 'crackdown' really gets going - so often in the past these 'crackdowns' just fizzle out after a few week or months.

 

So what you are getting is the gut reaction from those of us who think we have lived here long enough to get a 'feel' for what would be your best option. I would listen to the advice you are getting here if I were you, as the people I see posting above are usually right with their advice. Good luck with it.

 

 

[loltron]

Loltron, I think you need to understand that the proposed tougher enforcement of the visa / visa exempt rules over here in Thailand seem to be quite substantial. Actual reports from people leaving and entering Thailand will only be truly relevant after August 12th when the new enforcement officially starts all over Thailand (airports as well). It will then take several weeks or months as travelers reports filter through, to get a true picture of how this enforcement is actually being enacted.
 
So the (good) advice you are getting here from some long term Expats, is that we don't really know what will be an acceptable way to fulfill your requirement over the coming period. In fact nobody anywhere knows what will happen exactly when the 'crackdown' really gets going - so often in the past these 'crackdowns' just fizzle out after a few week or months.
 
So what you are getting is the gut reaction from those of us who think we have lived here long enough to get a 'feel' for what would be your best option. I would listen to the advice you are getting here if I were you, as the people I see posting above are usually right with their advice. Good luck with it.
 
 

Which is exactly why I posted, to get the opinions of those who deal with this more than I do.

I'm going to get a tourist visa on Tuesday, milk the consulate staff for info and report back if they have anything to add.

Thanks!

[KhnomKhnom]

 

 

my understanding was that starting on August 29th you will be able to extend a Visa on Arrival (airport stamp) for 30days while in Thailand.

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/744440-longer-visa-exemption-extensions-begin-august-29-2014/

its not a visa on arrival and that will give you one extension for a total of 60 days. you mentioned two extensions. why not just get a tourist visa?

 

 

Right, I see the confusion. I tried just now to edit my post to make it clearer but it seems I cannot.

 

Over the next year I will only need to be in Bangkok longer than 30 days on two separate occasions, and in those instances my stay will be less than 60 days, so extending my Visa Exemption seems to be the path of least resistance.

 

I certainly am no opposed to getting a Tourist Visa outside of Thailand, but that would be a lot more effort than simply getting a stamp in the airport. Of course, if it would be better for Thai Immigration getting a Tourist Visa isn't that much work.

 

For example: Arrive in BKK, stay 20 days, fly to Turkey for two weeks, return to BKK, stay 28 days, extend visa exemption, fly to the Philippines for two weeks, fly to BKK, stay 25 days, fly to Canada/US for two months, fly to BKK, stay in BKK 28 days, extend visa exemption, fly to Iceland for two weeks... etc etc etc

 

Just get a real visa and relax.  The 30day visa-exempt, called visa exemption etc... NOT VISA ON ARRIVAL.... is not for you and now or eventually you will get caught and refused entry.  Do not look for a future date when this clamp down will stop.  It is as permanent as human nature can make it.  The policy is in place.... get addresses on all foreigner inside Thailand to answer international pressure re criminals hiding here, illegal activity conducted here, surrogate moms here with foreigners, and all the other legitimate reasons a nation has to control its borders and who can stay within.   Today policies are normal;  policies under Thaksin were, like him, abnormal.

[VINCENT2012]

thailand dont like and want bag packers anymore..even with money........your kind of life is a scandal to them, that for sure they will never understand.

just go to the thai ambassy in your country and ask for a visa...better than coming here and having problem later on.

 

[csabo]

You sound dead set against the visa route and you have given your reasons.  As you will be moving around a lot, just keep all your visits to Thailand under 30 days and use the regular tourist exemption to do so.  In a crunch you could extend one or many of these entries but probably not want to clutter your passport with unneeded ink.  Just keep 30 days as your magic number and you should be good to go.  If you decide you wanna upgrade to a visa at some point you can do so on one of your excursions.  As an FYI the service at the embassy in NY is great but I doubt they will give you a triple but who knows.  If you get near them maybe you could stop in and ask them what they are offering these days specifically with regards to doubles and triples.  If you do find out PM me.  Thanks, happy trails. 

 

[loltron]

I PM'd you back!

I actually stopped by the embassy yesterday and picked up a 2 entry TV. 3 entry was not offered.

It's not that I'm against the TV, it's just that it's much less convenient than a visa exemption and I didn't understand they were specifically targeting visa exemptions and not TVs.

I made a new post about my experience at the consulate and what they told me. Basically he said back to back TVs are ok for now.

[Sarana]

Loltron, I think you are exactly the type of person the new rules and regulations seek to keep from returning to Thailand.

[loltron]

Interesting, because the new rules state they are to prevent people from using visa exempt runs to work illegally in Thailand.

In 4 years I've done two visa exemption runs to poi pet, and I've never worked a day in my life in Thailand. And I currently have a tourist visa, and a return flight out of Thailand.

So... Stuff it?

[Tomtomtom69]

 

 

If you already have decided that it's too much trouble to get a couple of tourist visas. There is no point in asking

Well, I actually was asking if multiple entries are ok so long as there is a bit of time outside the country between the entries, and the answer is "we still don't know".

If I have to get a Tourist Visa, sure, but I doubt the Out/In requirements will be any different than a Visa Exemption. And since I don't need 90 days, only 30 and occasionally 60, I don't understand why I would bother putting in the extra effort of getting a longer visa when I don't need the extra time.

 

 

Your options have been given. They are what they are. If what is convenient for you does not coincide with Thai immigration regulations, then guess what, you gotta do what ya gotta do. Simple as that. Aside from coming in and out of Thailand, all your travel plans are unimportant. You are the very sort of person who has immigration saying, "Get the proper visa." Not that you're purposely attempting to abuse the system, but like I said, what's convenient to you is unimportant to immigration.

You may get away with a couple of trips on a visa exemption but they will eventually say, "The next time you need to come in on a visa."

 

 

Very good post ScottMallon.

 

To the OP - you are speculating. If you get a tourist visa, first of all you can stay significantly longer than on a visa exemption. I wouldn't be expecting to make use of the 30 day extensions they are proposing to implement at the end of this month and remember you are supposed to hold an air ticket out of Thailand within 30 days if you arrive without a visa anyway, although there are ways of getting past that (think printing itineraries without actually having paid for a flight or purchasing a flexible date ticket where changes are free). Secondly, it will take a significant length of stay on tourist visas (or more likely a combination of visa exemptions and tourist visas) before immigration will be likely to scrutinize you. In the case of visa exempt entries alone, just a few could land you in trouble. So for now there IS a difference. Should an announcement be made that tourist visas will come more under the spotlight then we can have a discussion about that then, but for now we can assume that visa exempt entries, if used multiple times in a short period of time are going to be discouraged. We already also know that the combination of tourist visas and visa exempt entries may be a problem too but since it doesn't affect you we are not going to have that discussion now.

 

While I agree that a few days, or especially weeks between visits on visa exemptions should be OK, we can't know for certain at this stage until a clearer directive is given by immigration. So far various reports suggest most travelers getting through fine, some getting questioned (which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing) and still getting through in the end, especially if they have jobs abroad, and have some gaps between entries.

 

Thai immigration does not care about your situation especially as you are not a resident. If you can get an appropriate visa of some sort that would be best (dependent of a spouse working in Bangkok? Maybe?) but as a non-citizen, non-resident, there is no automatic right of entry or return. Nobody is stopping you from regular travel and in fact that may be beneficial to prove you are a bona fide tourist not working illegally in Thailand but Thai immigration is trying to stop multiple in/out journeys to extend stays on visa exempt entries. As you have correctly stated, we still don't know the exact definition of in/out but my concern is that you're trying everything to avoid getting a visa just because it might cost you a few bucks or is "inconvenient". That's not a very good excuse.
 

[loltron]

 

 

If you already have decided that it's too much trouble to get a couple of tourist visas. There is no point in asking

Well, I actually was asking if multiple entries are ok so long as there is a bit of time outside the country between the entries, and the answer is "we still don't know".

If I have to get a Tourist Visa, sure, but I doubt the Out/In requirements will be any different than a Visa Exemption. And since I don't need 90 days, only 30 and occasionally 60, I don't understand why I would bother putting in the extra effort of getting a longer visa when I don't need the extra time.
 

 
Your options have been given. They are what they are. If what is convenient for you does not coincide with Thai immigration regulations, then guess what, you gotta do what ya gotta do. Simple as that. Aside from coming in and out of Thailand, all your travel plans are unimportant. You are the very sort of person who has immigration saying, "Get the proper visa." Not that you're purposely attempting to abuse the system, but like I said, what's convenient to you is unimportant to immigration.

You may get away with a couple of trips on a visa exemption but they will eventually say, "The next time you need to come in on a visa."
 

 
Very good post ScottMallon.
 
To the OP - you are speculating. If you get a tourist visa, first of all you can stay significantly longer than on a visa exemption. I wouldn't be expecting to make use of the 30 day extensions they are proposing to implement at the end of this month and remember you are supposed to hold an air ticket out of Thailand within 30 days if you arrive without a visa anyway, although there are ways of getting past that (think printing itineraries without actually having paid for a flight or purchasing a flexible date ticket where changes are free). Secondly, it will take a significant length of stay on tourist visas (or more likely a combination of visa exemptions and tourist visas) before immigration will be likely to scrutinize you. In the case of visa exempt entries alone, just a few could land you in trouble. So for now there IS a difference. Should an announcement be made that tourist visas will come more under the spotlight then we can have a discussion about that then, but for now we can assume that visa exempt entries, if used multiple times in a short period of time are going to be discouraged. We already also know that the combination of tourist visas and visa exempt entries may be a problem too but since it doesn't affect you we are not going to have that discussion now.
 
While I agree that a few days, or especially weeks between visits on visa exemptions should be OK, we can't know for certain at this stage until a clearer directive is given by immigration. So far various reports suggest most travelers getting through fine, some getting questioned (which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing) and still getting through in the end, especially if they have jobs abroad, and have some gaps between entries.
 
Thai immigration does not care about your situation especially as you are not a resident. If you can get an appropriate visa of some sort that would be best (dependent of a spouse working in Bangkok? Maybe?) but as a non-citizen, non-resident, there is no automatic right of entry or return. Nobody is stopping you from regular travel and in fact that may be beneficial to prove you are a bona fide tourist not working illegally in Thailand but Thai immigration is trying to stop multiple in/out journeys to extend stays on visa exempt entries. As you have correctly stated, we still don't know the exact definition of in/out but my concern is that you're trying everything to avoid getting a visa just because it might cost you a few bucks or is "inconvenient". That's not a very good excuse.
 

I'm not against a tourist visa at all, I'm against doing work I don't have to do. This thread was posted so I could find the path of least resistance. I thought it was visa exempt stamps, but have been convinced that a TV, while less convenient to acquire, will in the end likely save me quite a bit of trouble and provide quite a bit of additional security.

And indeed, I just picked up my TV today!

[steve73]

Seems to me that the OP is in a VERY similar position to the oil workers spending their free time here....and from what I've read on TV few seem to think that they'll have any problems using 30 day visa exemptions.

 

The only problem I could forsee with PLANNING to visit longer then the 30 day Visa exemption duration would be with the airline allowing you to check-in. 

 

But it's pointless getting a tourist visa for 60 days if you're only planning on staying less than 30... Wait until you need longer than 30 before getting it, since it'll get stamped "used" on your first entry to the country (even if you're only here for a day).

[Tony125]

 

I belive they will stop you if coming so many times on visa exemptions. And also extend them every time. I can't understand why you don't like to get tourist visas? It would be more easy and you don't have ti spend a lot of time at the Immigration

 

well i would only extend them less than half the time. also, getting a tourist visa would be a pain in the ass.

 

visa exemption:

fly to bangkok

go through immigration (2 minutes at the desk)

go to my flat

 

tourist visa:

fly to hanoi/hong kong or wherever

get a hotel

go to the embassy, fill out paperwork, wait in line, drop off passport

go to hotel

go back to embassy, wait in line, get my passport

go to the airport

fly to bangkok

go through immigration (2 minutes at the desk)

go to my flat

 

yea you're right i cant understand why i'd rather just use the visa exemption?

 

If your in New York you can get a 60 day tourist visa wich can be extended at immigration in BKK for an additional 30 days for 1900 baht Can get a single double or triple entry tourist visa.(with extensions covers 9 months)  I lived in Boston , MA got a double entry tourist visa there from Thai consulate in about 15 mins  then got non-o for retirement in Laos   A single 60 days costs I think $40,  double ($80)  triple ($120)

Edited August 7, 2014 by Tony125

[Mudcrab]

 

I belive they will stop you if coming so many times on visa exemptions. And also extend them every time. I can't understand why you don't like to get tourist visas? It would be more easy and you don't have ti spend a lot of time at the Immigration

 

well i would only extend them less than half the time. also, getting a tourist visa would be a pain in the ass.

 

visa exemption:

fly to bangkok

go through immigration (2 minutes at the desk)

go to my flat

 

tourist visa:

fly to hanoi/hong kong or wherever

get a hotel

go to the embassy, fill out paperwork, wait in line, drop off passport

go to hotel

go back to embassy, wait in line, get my passport

go to the airport

fly to bangkok

go through immigration (2 minutes at the desk)

go to my flat

 

yea you're right i cant understand why i'd rather just use the visa exemption?

 

Sounds like you are really a resident who travels out of the country a lot. 

[CaitlinHappyMeal]

I belive they will stop you if coming so many times on visa exemptions. And also extend them every time. I can't understand why you don't like to get tourist visas? It would be more easy and you don't have ti spend a lot of time at the Immigration

 
well i would only extend them less than half the time. also, getting a tourist visa would be a pain in the ass.
 
visa exemption:
fly to bangkok
go through immigration (2 minutes at the desk)
go to my flat
 
tourist visa:
fly to hanoi/hong kong or wherever
get a hotel
go to the embassy, fill out paperwork, wait in line, drop off passport
go to hotel
go back to embassy, wait in line, get my passport
go to the airport
fly to bangkok
go through immigration (2 minutes at the desk)
go to my flat
 
yea you're right i cant understand why i'd rather just use the visa exemption?

 
surely if you are uncertain as to whether immigration at some point are going to refuse you entry because they think you are a border runner its best to ago the extra length first (yeah hassle i know) and be sure than to try coming back in on one of those occasions and then they turn you away, would that not be more hassle than getting tourist visas in the first place?
Edited August 7, 2014 by Maestro
fixed the quote tags

[KED]

One additional requirement you should be aware of is that it is possible that an airline would refuse you boarding a flight to Thailand if you do not have a flight out within 30 days unless you hold a visa of some sort.  Even after August 29, the official Thailand rules are you may enter the country for 30 days as a U.S. citiizen without a visa as long as you have an onward ticket within 30 days.  

[Maestro]

From what I have seen newspapers quote what senior immigration officers have said, immigration wants a traveller to plan his trip and then get the correct visa for his trip. I take this to mean that if I plan to stay in Thailand longer than 30 days I should get a tourist visa. This is aside from the fact that airlines can and sometimes do refuse boarding to a tourist without a visa who does not have a flight booked out of Thailand within the allowed period of his visa-exempt stay.

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.