Dealing with Immigration matters in old age

[Guest jonzboy]

Sorry if this is a rather morbid subject, but I've been wondering about my plan to live in Thailand in retirement.  What happens when one becomes to frail to make personal trips for annual extensions, or just too senile to even understand the ever-changing requirements.  I understand that there are care homes for expats that run cheaper than their European counterparts, but how does one navigate the immigration requirements???

[buckeye]

The bigger worry would be that after living here for 25 of 30 years and being on a fixed pension that with a stroke of a pen you would need 1.5 or 2 million baht in a bank to stay on a retirement or marriage visa, please don't start with if you don't have enough money you should not be here, i'm talking when you are 70 plus and your home is Thailand.

 

[Brit_Doggie]

Appear in person for annual extension = no agent no can do simply you have a few bob or you wouldnt be in care gladly a thai will piggyback you for the price of a meal come what may. oh btw did you forget that you still owe me 10,000 baht from 3 years ago !

[ParadiseLost]

"just too senile to even understand the ever-changing requirements"

 

Perhaps you will find they are easier to understand...

[JLCrab]

The bigger worry would be that after living here for 25 of 30 years and being on a fixed pension that with a stroke of a pen you would need 1.5 or 2 million baht in a bank to stay on a retirement or marriage visa, please don't start with if you don't have enough money you should not be here, i'm talking when you are 70 plus and your home is Thailand.

 

If it happens, it happens. Why should it be a cause for worry? Good reason to keep your extension of stay current and non-interrupted.

Edited August 5, 2014 by JLCrab

[wayned]

 

The bigger worry would be that after living here for 25 of 30 years and being on a fixed pension that with a stroke of a pen you would need 1.5 or 2 million baht in a bank to stay on a retirement or marriage visa, please don't start with if you don't have enough money you should not be here, i'm talking when you are 70 plus and your home is Thailand.

 

If it happens, it happens. Why should it be a cause for worry? Good reason to keep your extension of stay current and non-interrupted.

 

 

Agree, and hope that there's a "grandfather" clause as there was when they raised it to 800k in the late1990's.

[JLCrab]

I decided to let someone else bring up the word 'grandfather' in the context of retirement extension.

[belg]

have a contract / will made up, that once you don't know who you are anymore and you don't know what you are doing overhere, they can pull the plug for you

 

seriously, ..; if i reach that age and start to shit my pants and cannot wipe anymore , i would not like to live like a vegetable

 

[Jingthing]

 

 

The bigger worry would be that after living here for 25 of 30 years and being on a fixed pension that with a stroke of a pen you would need 1.5 or 2 million baht in a bank to stay on a retirement or marriage visa, please don't start with if you don't have enough money you should not be here, i'm talking when you are 70 plus and your home is Thailand.

 

If it happens, it happens. Why should it be a cause for worry? Good reason to keep your extension of stay current and non-interrupted.

 

 

Agree, and hope that there's a "grandfather" clause as there was when they raised it to 800k in the late1990's.

 

Yes, of course, we all hope that.

 

But ...

 

-- governments including Thailand are under no legal obligation to offer that

-- just because they did it before, doesn't mean they will do it again

-- even if they do, if you "mess up" somehow on a technicality and lose your chain of continuous extensions and have to start over (this is NOT unusual) you would lose the grandfathering benefit

-- Thailand offers no path at all to greater residence security (beyond one year extensions) to those on retirement status and there is no reason to assume that they will

-- an example of what governments can do ... recently in Colombia expats who had lifetime residence stamps in their passports were rudely informed ... sorry ...  we changed our minds ... "lifetime" is now FIVE years (actually, I don't think they even said sorry ... why would they?)

Edited August 5, 2014 by Jingthing

[ratcatcher]

There have been many Thai politicians and people who think they are important pose the question "Do you know who I am?"

 

So it's not always a question asked by a non-compos mentis geriatric.

[JLCrab]

Re: continued extensions of stay via retirement: and there is no reason to assume that they will Conversely, there is no reason to assume they won't ...

 

Until there is something to worry about, I will let others worry about it.

[jpinx]

I suggest the OP finds a willing agent who he can trust to do the paperwork and be prepared to pay for the service, including a taxi/ambulance to the relevant immigration offices.  They will undoubtedly be impressed by him turning up in a wheelchair with the correct papers and will process him promptly. If the OP has the funds, he could get a Elite card and get red-carpet treatment. I'd check with Elite to be sure they can cope with geriatrics in wheelchairs.

 

Hat's off to the OP for having the courage to bring up this topic and face the realities of getting old in Thailand.  I have no clue about nursing homes, but I think a bit of smart googling will come up with some ideas.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Re: continued extensions of stay via retirement: and there is no reason to assume that they will Conversely, there is no reason to assume they won't ...

 

Until there is something to worry about, I will let others worry about it.

OK, I get it, but you know, I am sorry, the REALITY is that expat retirees here have basically NO long term residence security here beyond ONE year. I think this is very important for people considering Thailand to consider. You can't know how that really feels until you have lived here awhile and might be heavily invested here ... with much less or even nothing to go "back home" to as the years pass. Yes, I am suggesting I would generally not suggest people retire to Thailand, even though I did, and that they would be better off if retiring abroad to highly prioritize long term residence security which Thailand will probably NEVER offer retired expats. So if long term residence security is a high priority, Thailand will be off the table. 

Edited August 5, 2014 by Jingthing

[ParadiseLost]

After living here for ten years I am starting to share the OPs concerns. Not only with immigration but in general things look pretty bleak for old people who are often just locked up and tolerated rather than really cared for.

 

Traditionally in Thailand young people felt it was their unquestionable duty to care for their aged relatives but this is changing fast. At least in some western countries this change has already led to commercial ventures supported by government to provide professional care.

 

Here there is next to nothing unless you are terminally ill (and you have money).

 

Is it wrong for me to say compassion is not big in this part of the world?

[plahgat]

Agree.

Better to stay in your homecountry and just travel to Thailand every year,

once your too old, frail and senile to travel and enjoy life anymore

you can still benefit from your home country's social security system.

 

Plahgat

[ParadiseLost]

Agree.

Better to stay in your homecountry and just travel to Thailand every year,

once your too old, frail and senile to travel and enjoy life anymore

you can still benefit from your home country's social security system.

 

Plahgat

 

Unless there is no social security in your home country...
 

[stevenl]

After living here for ten years I am starting to share the OPs concerns. Not only with immigration but in general things look pretty bleak for old people who are often just locked up and tolerated rather than really cared for.

 

Traditionally in Thailand young people felt it was their unquestionable duty to care for their aged relatives but this is changing fast. At least in some western countries this change has already led to commercial ventures supported by government to provide professional care.

 

Here there is next to nothing unless you are terminally ill (and you have money).

 

Is it wrong for me to say compassion is not big in this part of the world?

With the young taking care of the old in stead of simply putting the old in a retirement home and paying them a visit once a month I would say there is much more compassion and respect here than back home.

[uptoyoumyfriend]

then again there are the retirement /nursing homes back home where you have all the security of a canary in a cage or a 5 year old,this is how they treat you-i kid you not-(i had the experience once) for a mere let's say 100 000 to 200 000 bt a month.i figure the wife or myself can hire plenty of staff for that kind of dough  and i have a dignified self determined life on the way out.and if i can't make it to immigration then i will just not go there.

[Krataiboy]

"Give me virtual reality any day rather than the unrelenting anguish of the real world." - Michael D. Godfrey, philosopher, essayist and high priest of existentialism.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Krataiboy

[ParadiseLost]

 

After living here for ten years I am starting to share the OPs concerns. Not only with immigration but in general things look pretty bleak for old people who are often just locked up and tolerated rather than really cared for.

 

Traditionally in Thailand young people felt it was their unquestionable duty to care for their aged relatives but this is changing fast. At least in some western countries this change has already led to commercial ventures supported by government to provide professional care.

 

Here there is next to nothing unless you are terminally ill (and you have money).

 

Is it wrong for me to say compassion is not big in this part of the world?

With the young taking care of the old in stead of simply putting the old in a retirement home and paying them a visit once a month I would say there is much more compassion and respect here than back home.

 

 

Here where I live there was a dear old lady who wandered around in her own world, always smiling and very friendly to everyone. One day she got lost, so from then on she was locked in a room. For a few years you could hear her shouting and crying all day, but she was never seen outside again. She has been suspiciously quiet for several months now...

 

I would rather have some professional care than be a burden on loved ones (who have no idea how to look after a senile relative).

 

I would also prefer to be in the company of other senile old farts, not locked away on my own!

[phuketrichard]

hmmm

i see a business opp

 

open an old age home with a resident lawyer and physician in attendance

one to deal with immigration/legal wills/changing poicies

the other to pull the plug ( morphine drip) when the time comes

[JLCrab]

OK JT -- I am now 10 years in Thailand 7 on extension via retirement and I am deliberately not heavily invested here. One year's security at a time doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother others.

[Jingthing]

OK JT -- I am now 10 years in Thailand 7 on extension via retirement and I am deliberately not heavily invested here. One year's security at a time doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother others.

Good point. I AM heavily invested here so DO feel the vulnerability more. A middle way tactic would be what you are doing and of course trying to keep the bridges good for an escape plan. 

[jonesthepost]

I would not worry to much about old age as a person over 75 I am just happy to make once a year  extension. Remember we all are going to wake up dead  one day, so as Benny  Hill said live each day as your last one you will be right.

[ParadiseLost]

hmmm

i see a business opp

 

open an old age home with a resident lawyer and physician in attendance

one to deal with immigration/legal wills/changing poicies

the other to pull the plug ( morphine drip) when the time comes

 

You joke but this is a huge growth market, worldwide.

 

Don't forget, the baby boomer OAPs are the richest generation ever...

[Time Traveller]

 

OK, I get it, but you know, I am sorry, the REALITY is that expat retirees here have basically NO long term residence security here beyond ONE year. I think this is very important for people considering Thailand to consider. 

 

Most retirees are at the age where they know not to make life plans more than one year out anyway

 

Seriously, if you face the expensive US medical system (and medicare doesn't cover everything), then Thailand is a great place for retirees. They stil get their SSI paid. 

Edited August 5, 2014 by Time Traveller

[Jingthing]

 

 

OK, I get it, but you know, I am sorry, the REALITY is that expat retirees here have basically NO long term residence security here beyond ONE year. I think this is very important for people considering Thailand to consider. 

 

Most retirees are at the age where they know not to make life plans more than one year out anyway

 

Seriously, if you face the expensive US medical system (and medicare doesn't cover everything), then Thailand is a great place for retirees. They stil get their SSI paid. 

 

I completely disagree with you.

Older people generally desire residence stability. 

It gets harder to move a lot the older you get.

Even harder to change countries.

Other nations with retired expat programs get this issue and DO offer paths towards residence stability. 

That's all I'm saying.

It's a human need that Thailand is NOT offering us. 

Edited August 5, 2014 by Jingthing

[phuketrichard]

phuketrichard, on 05 Aug 2014 - 17:09, said:

hmmm

i see a business opp

 

open an old age home with a resident lawyer and physician in attendance

one to deal with immigration/legal wills/changing poicies

the other to pull the plug ( morphine drip) when the time comes

 

You joke but this is a huge growth market, worldwide.

 

Don't forget, the baby boomer OAPs are the richest generation ever...

 

 

 

whose joking!!!

 

 think it would be a great business

About 17 years ago the Japanese were looking at buying up  a big plot of land in Patong ( on the road heading up to the hill that goes over to Karon beach that was Patongs second hospital that failed ) an doing an old age home but than the economy collapsed,

 

I think doing it out near the airport would be perfect

Edited August 5, 2014 by phuketrichard

[BadBouy]

 

 

 

OK, I get it, but you know, I am sorry, the REALITY is that expat retirees here have basically NO long term residence security here beyond ONE year. I think this is very important for people considering Thailand to consider. 

 

Most retirees are at the age where they know not to make life plans more than one year out anyway

 

Seriously, if you face the expensive US medical system (and medicare doesn't cover everything), then Thailand is a great place for retirees. They stil get their SSI paid. 

 

I completely disagree with you.

Older people generally desire residence stability. 

It gets harder to move a lot the older you get.

Even harder to change countries.

Other nations with retired expat programs get this issue and DO offer paths towards residence stability. 

That's all I'm saying.

It's a human need that Thailand is NOT offering us. 

 

 

My mother is almost 92, and can no longer live on her own as of this spring (Alzheimer), if it were not for family she would be screwed. Yes there is some but not enough support provided by the government but you will have long slipped through the cracks before they figure out you need the help. It is the network of people you surround yourself with that is the most important. As for immigration trying to deport self supporting geriatrics on their way out that have people caring for them would be a pretty low priority. Have the money and the network of people and you should be all set. It is never to early to have a conversation with wife or friends the would take care of your needs, make sure they know you will do the same for them. 

[Tingtau]

then again there are the retirement /nursing homes back home where you have all the security of a canary in a cage or a 5 year old,this is how they treat you-i kid you not-(i had the experience once) for a mere let's say 100 000 to 200 000 bt a month.i figure the wife or myself can hire plenty of staff for that kind of dough  and i have a dignified self determined life on the way out.and if i can't make it to immigration then i will just not go there.

100,000 to 200,000 baht a month!!!!  Just how long do you expect to live......that's 1,200,000 - 2,400,000 baht a year!!!!  Are you a millionaire/billionaire.....or did you just mistakenly add a zero to your figures without realizing it?  Or maybe you were just seeing whose leg you could pull?