Immigration protection for windows/widowers of Thai spouses?

[connda]

Thai Visa George has a meeting with the Immigration Commissioner today.  I posted these concerns around midnight, but doubt they will ever be seen or discussed, even though this issue effect thousand of expats married to Thai spouses.  What's your options if your spouse dies?  Here's what I wrote.  I believe it's imperative to get this question to the Immigration Commissioner.  If you agree, I'd suggest to chime in on the Topic: Thaivisa.com to meet with Immigration Commissioner.  Hopefully Thai Visa George will see your comments, or "Like" my post number 225.

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In the United States there are Widower Protections that allows the foreign spouse to remain in the US if their US citizen spouse dies.  These protections allow the spouse and any children from the marriage to remain in the country on a valid US visa as long as they have:
* not remarried after the death;
* not divorced or legally separated before the U.S. citizen’s death; and
* can prove a bona fide marital relationship to the deceased.

Over the period of 7 years of marriage, I've provided significantly to the well being of my immediate family including private schooling for my Thai step son who is now in the Thai Air Force, and my extended family in our village, and I've pay taxes.  So what happens in five or ten or twenty years when my son is married, I have grandchildren, and significant extended Thai family - and my wife dies???

If I'm retirement age, but I meet all the financial requirements of a marriage visa, then I'm still forced into a extra cost of a retirement visa (which can be put to better use for supporting my family -- or I need to leave the country and my entire family.  My entire family!
If I'm not retirement age, but I meet all the financial requirements of a marriage visa, then what do I do?  If unable to find a job or start a business, if I don't have a biological child from the marriage under the age of majority, then the only option is to leave the country and my entire family.  My entire family!

Why can't Thailand provide Widower Protections in their immigration laws in order to provide the most basic of human rights and compassion of allowing me as a widowed foreign spouse (should my Thai wife die) to remain with the family that I and my Thai spouse have raised and supported?  I believe I speak for every foreigner who is married to a Thai National spouse.

[connda]

Mods.  I apologize if this is considered a cross-post, but I sincerely believe that this to be of incredible importance to all foreigners married to Thai spouses, and it's an issue that has been discussed but there are so few options.  If you can't allow this post, then I humbly implore you to get this issue to George prior to his interview today.

[RubbaJohnny]

An important issue,without detracting from the seriousness,there is at least a demand for minted trained farangs in the remarriage stakes.

[Jungle Jim]

A very good question.

[Maestro]

Connda, you may well be right with your guess that a concise and precise question is more likely to be discussed than a long rant and comparisons to the way other countries handle specific immigration matters.

[mahjongguy]

A retirement extension is not more expensive than a marriage extension, it just has a higher financial requirement. This could be handled by purchasing enough life insurance to cover the additional 400,000 baht.

 

A much bigger concern is that the farang switching to a retirement extension would no longer be eligible for a work permit. 

[ubonjoe]

It is a concern and I would say for a person under the age of 50 even more so.

Immigration perhaps is already aware of the problem.

The have changed the acknowledgment of the conditions for your extension you sign when applying. It now states that you upon the death of your spouse your extension does not end.

In clause 2.18 of the police order that is for extension based upon marriage there is this statement.

"For other necessary cases, the Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner of Immigration Bureau is granted the authority to make decisions regarding approval on a case-by-case basis"

In most case there would be time for a persons to try and get an extension under the special circumstances.allowed.

[MartinL]

You certainly voice a concern I've had for a long time, Connda.

 

If I were significantly older than my wife, the concern would be less because the chances would be that I'd die first. However, my wife & I are within a few months of each other in age. She's due to retire in 2 years. We have children (step- in my case) and will soon have our first grandchild. Should she die first, as I understand it, I'd be expected to leave the country & my family to return to a country where I'd have nothing & without the financial means to re-establish myself there. Perhaps I'd be of an age where independence in what would, by then, be an unfamiliar country would be impossible.

 

I know Ubonjoe has quoted " ... It now states that (you) upon the death of your spouse your extension does not end ..." but I suspect that would be just for the remainder of the 1 year extension so it'd just delay the family separation. I'm not convinced that it's a suggestion that a widow(er) would be allowed to stay in-country permanently as part of a wider Thai family or that the case-by-case consideration would make a decision in the widower's favour.

[WhizBang]

Many of us are significantly older than our Thai spouse.  My Thai spouse is 30 plus years my junior.  So for me, not really an issue.  My concern is making sure she has no issues laying claim to my worldly possessions.  And yes, I do have a will.

 

But for those who do not have as large an age gap, I cann see this being an issue.

 

[IMA_FARANG]

 It is a valid issue.

Not only if your Thai spouse dies, but what happens if your Thai wife divorces you. ?

Since your reason for being here is to live with your Thai spouse ..... that's how you got the marriage visa/extension ...... there is no valid reason to keep you here once you are divorced.

It's a problem.

 

Note: I originally wrote "Thai wife", but it is entirely possible that a Farang female is here married to a Thai man, and living here on a marriage visa/extension also, isn't it.?

 

 

Edited August 7, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[fvw53]

Many of us are significantly older than our Thai spouse.  My Thai spouse is 30 plus years my junior.  So for me, not really an issue.  My concern is making sure she has no issues laying claim to my worldly possessions.  And yes, I do have a will.

 

But for those who do not have as large an age gap, I cann see this being an issue.

 

 

Yes the normal thing would be that you leave this planet before your wife...but in the condo where I live two farangs lost their much younger wives due too road accidents...it is unpleasant but we should also think about this possibility.

[Suradit69]

Ummm ... maybe the topic title could be edited??

 

Immigration protection for windows

 

 

[GoonDizzy]

You're asking Thailand to adhere to Human Rights. I hope you get what's right. I'm not an old timer basher like some. One can only begin to imagine the thought of being told to leave a the age of 70 after 30+ years here with a home, kids and grandkids. That's horrific. I've only been here 6 years and I'm iffy about leaving (even though I might).

[Richard W]

Note: I originally wrote "Thai wife", but it is entirely possible that a Farang female is here married to a Thai man, and living here on a marriage visa/extension also, isn't it.?

Yes, e.g. SBK. However, it is much easier for wives to naturalise as Thais.

[NanLaew]

 It is a valid issue.

Not only if your Thai spouse dies, but what happens if your Thai wife divorces you. ?

Since your reason for being here is to live with your Thai spouse ..... that's how you got the marriage visa/extension ...... there is no valid reason to keep you here once you are divorced.

It's a problem.

 

Note: I originally wrote "Thai wife", but it is entirely possible that a Farang female is here married to a Thai man, and living here on a marriage visa/extension also, isn't it.?

 

 

Problem for the divorcee maybe but why should a failed marriage suddenly be the concern of the Thai (or any) immigration authority?

 

When a foreigners long-stay extension in the country is enabled by dint of having a job and that job ends or he is terminated, he has 24-hours to haul ass or 7 days with an extension. The enabling reason for the long-stay has gone, then the holder of the extension no longer has a claim on it. Similarly, if the extension is through having a Thai spouse, why on earth would any immigration authority allow a divorced foreigner to stay once the enabling condition (marriage) no longer exists? If that were the case, the abuse of marriage to a local would be phenomenal, with John getting married to Noi just long enough to get the first marriage extension and then they split. He gets to stay and she gets paid some pre-agreed amount for her 'trouble'... and we aren't talking sin sodt here either.

 

Outside the 'arranged' marriage scenario above, someone would need to be seriously asleep at the wheel not to know that his/her marriage is going to end at the local amphur. Death and taxes are inevitable and accidents happen 'suddenly'.... but divorce?

Edited August 8, 2014 by NanLaew

[Richard W]

Similarly, if the extension is through having a Thai spouse, why on earth would any immigration authority allow a divorced foreigner to stay once the enabling condition (marriage) no longer exists? If that were the case, the abuse of marriage to a local would be phenomenal, with John getting married to Noi just long enough to get the first marriage extension and then they split. He gets to stay and she gets paid some pre-agreed amount for her 'trouble'... and we aren't talking sin sodt here either.

Britain has adopted the expedient of requiring the marriage to last 5 years before permanent residence is granted. There are exceptions for (a) bereavement and (b) domestic violence. There is evidence of the domestic violence provision being abused.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Richard W

[Jay Sata]

As you all know there are little or no rights for the spouse of a Thai national.

Unlike others countries any non Thai living in the kingdom does not have permanent residency.

[RubbaJohnny]

As you all know there are little or no rights for the spouse of a Thai national.

Unlike others countries any non Thai living in the kingdom does not have permanent residency.

 

A status that I and I am sure many others would pay hadsomely for.

 

With no WP and tax record 3 years unbroken despite being taxed by Thai government my former employer.

 

At present without t money its impossible to legally go down the PR route,

 

Any other method would be appreciated when one has cash but gets too infirm or sick to keep on the hamster wheel of 90 days endless chnging copies and regs

 

A million bahts residency for aged married to and supporting Thais would be a move in the right direction.Instead of banks could be lodged /donated to the health system.Pay for the rice subsidy losses etc.

 

Not asking for land votes or passports just security

Edited August 10, 2014 by RubbaJohnny

[connda]

Ummm ... maybe the topic title could be edited??

 

Immigration protection for windows

 

 

 

Yeah, I've got fat fingers and I'm my own worst proof-reader.  Touch typing for over 40 years and I still suck at it.  Too bad the OP can't edit the topic line.  My apologies.  Knowing the Thai system, Windows will get immigration protections before Widows Lol. 
 

[connda]

Ummm ... maybe the topic title could be edited??

 

Immigration protection for windows

 

 

 

Duplicate.  Network hiccup I guess.
 

Edited August 12, 2014 by connda