Ukraine crisis: Putin orders retaliatory sanctions

[Harsh Jones]

I am just trying to figure out what the US's motives are to systematically try and restart the Cold War against Russia to the point where evidence seeps out that they stage a coup in Ukraine. Right on Russia's border.

You anti Putin people have no answers as to why.

Why is the US doing this ?

The accusations are irresponsible, reckless, wrong.

They are fired off from the barrels of Russian artillery.

You need to find some middle ground.

And soon.

You haven't said anything about the Russian invasion forces along the border of the eastern Ukraine. What, Washington put them there???

Putin is attempting to settle serious differences with neighboring countries as if this were the 18th century, or the 19th century. The then president of Ukraine reneged on the Agreement of Association with the EU that he'd promised during his campaign he'd sign. Most Ukrainians want to associate with Europe and the rule of law, democracy, civility and the like. The things Putin can't stand.

The US was in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum by meddling in the internal politics of Ukraine. A nation that is thousands of miles away from them, yet shares a border with Russia.

Putin is the one who proposed the trilateral agreement that the US turned down. Putin is the one that proposed moving the coming December Ukraine election dates closer that the US turned down. Putin is the one that proposed a ceasefire in Ukraine to start negations and the US turned it down.

Yet here you are saying that Russia is attempting to settle differences as if this were the 18th or 19th century. The US knows that any one of the diplomatic proposals by Putin would probably work but they don't want to give Putin that statesmanship. For what reasons I can only guess and be called a conspiracy theorist. The US is willing to escalate a war and see civilians die just to make sure that Putin doesn't broker another peace deal like he did in Syria. The US seems to be jealous of Putins statesmanship.

Moscow and you keep saying the public's mass routing of the Viktor Yanukovych government was a "coup d'état" when in fact neither the Ukraine military nor judiciary were involved.

Putin says the Budapest Memorandum is defunct, nullified, kaput, due to a "revolutionary coup d'état" in Ukraine and because the new government there is not the same government with which Moscow signed the 1994 treaty. Putin is making up international law as he goes along as are those who side with Putin.

The Russian foreign minister failed to show at the Budapest Memorandum Ministerial in Paris on March 5th, leaving the U.S., the UK and the Ukraine governments looking at an empty chair.

Ongoing nuclear negotiations with Iran could be directly impacted by Moscow's nullification of the Budapest Memorandum and the negative impact of not respecting the Memorandum would have on the U.S. negotiating position with Iran. The fact is the Budapest Memorandum was a confidence building measure rather than a formal treaty. And it turns out Putin is nothing more than a con man.

"One of the countries that agreed to guarantee (Ukraine's) integrity, Russia, has on the contrary violated it, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said, arguing that Ukraines fate after voluntarily surrendering its arsenal could encourage other countries to acquire nuclear weapons or refrain from giving them up.

Fact is, based on evidence like the call between Victiria Nuland and Geoff Pyatt , it was a classic coup. This would be like Russia staging a coup in Canada after the US lost the Cold War.

What are the US's goals in tho meddling ? Why are they even there ? Can you please answer this ?

[Harsh Jones]

From ZeroHedge

European stocks have suffered the most since sanctions began.

Chart: Bloomberg

Oops, Zerohedge once again uses an interesting cut off and data plot that paints less than a complete picture.

The MICRX lost 18% right before your chart cut off in late February dropping from 15,010 ish range in late February to 1,247 in March. Micex is currently sitting at 1,333 with a lot of volatility, but is still down 13% since late February 2014.

The Dow in February was around 15,370 and closed this Friday at 16,553.

I sure would prefer a Dow 7% gain since February 2014 over MICEX 13% loss since February 2014.

The DOW does need some correction and profit taking after going from 10,770 to 17,000 in LESS than 3 years. Issues in Israel, Ukraine and etc also pact DOW, but analyst are indicating strong number late 2014 early 2015. A very good time to buy in in certain sectors.

The chart starts when the sanctions start. Plain and simple.

The Russian stock market is a real market living in the real world. As is the European markets. The DOW see's mostly petrodollar money and Fed money from Wall St. There is nothing real about it.

[F430murci]

From ZeroHedge

European stocks have suffered the most since sanctions began.

Chart: Bloomberg

Oops, Zerohedge once again uses an interesting cut off and data plot that paints less than a complete picture.

The MICRX lost 18% right before your chart cut off in late February dropping from 15,010 ish range in late February to 1,247 in March. Micex is currently sitting at 1,333 with a lot of volatility, but is still down 13% since late February 2014.

The Dow in February was around 15,370 and closed this Friday at 16,553.

I sure would prefer a Dow 7% gain since February 2014 over MICEX 13% loss since February 2014.

The DOW does need some correction and profit taking after going from 10,770 to 17,000 in LESS than 3 years. Issues in Israel, Ukraine and etc also pact DOW, but analyst are indicating strong number late 2014 early 2015. A very good time to buy in in certain sectors.

The chart starts when the sanctions start. Plain and simple.

The Russian stock market is a real market living in the real world. As is the European markets. The DOW see's mostly petrodollar money and Fed money from Wall St. There is nothing real about it.

Nothing real except my ever increasing portfolio. Yep, MICEX is a real chart showing what a struggling on the verge if failing economy looks like!

I hate to break it you, but there are a lot of really smart people in the world investing big chunks of personal and corporate money and guess where their putting it, I'll give you a hint. It ain't in Russia.

Many of us were taking profits at 17,000 + that had zilch to do with anything except profits.

Your analysis and throwing up that zero hedge chat reflects that you have absolutely no grasp on basic investment concepts such as alpha, beta, support levels, P/E ratios, standard deviation or the rarely used r-squared.

You refuse to accept the that US sanctions have been shots across the bow designed only to target Putin and those that might have influence in him. US has refrained from true sanctions that would have dire impacts on overall Russian economy.

[Harsh Jones]

From ZeroHedge

European stocks have suffered the most since sanctions began.

Chart: Bloomberg

Oops, Zerohedge once again uses an interesting cut off and data plot that paints less than a complete picture.

The MICRX lost 18% right before your chart cut off in late February dropping from 15,010 ish range in late February to 1,247 in March. Micex is currently sitting at 1,333 with a lot of volatility, but is still down 13% since late February 2014.

The Dow in February was around 15,370 and closed this Friday at 16,553.

I sure would prefer a Dow 7% gain since February 2014 over MICEX 13% loss since February 2014.

The DOW does need some correction and profit taking after going from 10,770 to 17,000 in LESS than 3 years. Issues in Israel, Ukraine and etc also pact DOW, but analyst are indicating strong number late 2014 early 2015. A very good time to buy in in certain sectors.

The chart starts when the sanctions start. Plain and simple.

The Russian stock market is a real market living in the real world. As is the European markets. The DOW see's mostly petrodollar money and Fed money from Wall St. There is nothing real about it.

Nothing real except my ever increasing portfolio. Yep, MICEX is a real chart showing what a struggling on the verge if failing economy looks like!

I hate to break it you, but there are a lot of really smart people in the world investing big chunks of personal and corporate money and guess where their putting it, I'll give you a hint. It ain't in Russia.

Many of us were taking profits at 17,000 + that had zilch to do with anything except profits.

Your analysis and throwing up that zero hedge chat reflects that you have absolutely no grasp on basic investment concepts such as alpha, beta, support levels, P/E ratios, standard deviation or the rarely used r-squared.

You refuse to accept the that US sanctions have been shots across the bow designed only to target Putin and those that might have influence in him. US has refrained from true sanctions that would have dire impacts on overall Russian economy.

I am not an internet day trader who always says that they buy at the bottom and sell at the top. Lol at your lingo.

The facts:

Russia is a creditor nation with no net debt and the 5th most forex reserves in the world.

The US is a debtor nation with basically no net forex reserves at all. What metric is telling you that the real economy in the US has recovered at all ? Other then the Wall street fueled phony stock market ?

[Publicus]

The US was in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum by meddling in the internal politics of Ukraine. A nation that is thousands of miles away from them, yet shares a border with Russia.

Putin is the one who proposed the trilateral agreement that the US turned down. Putin is the one that proposed moving the coming December Ukraine election dates closer that the US turned down. Putin is the one that proposed a ceasefire in Ukraine to start negations and the US turned it down.

Yet here you are saying that Russia is attempting to settle differences as if this were the 18th or 19th century. The US knows that any one of the diplomatic proposals by Putin would probably work but they don't want to give Putin that statesmanship. For what reasons I can only guess and be called a conspiracy theorist. The US is willing to escalate a war and see civilians die just to make sure that Putin doesn't broker another peace deal like he did in Syria. The US seems to be jealous of Putins statesmanship.

Moscow and you keep saying the public's mass routing of the Viktor Yanukovych government was a "coup d'état" when in fact neither the Ukraine military nor judiciary were involved.

Putin says the Budapest Memorandum is defunct, nullified, kaput, due to a "revolutionary coup d'état" in Ukraine and because the new government there is not the same government with which Moscow signed the 1994 treaty. Putin is making up international law as he goes along as are those who side with Putin.

The Russian foreign minister failed to show at the Budapest Memorandum Ministerial in Paris on March 5th, leaving the U.S., the UK and the Ukraine governments looking at an empty chair.

Ongoing nuclear negotiations with Iran could be directly impacted by Moscow's nullification of the Budapest Memorandum and the negative impact of not respecting the Memorandum would have on the U.S. negotiating position with Iran. The fact is the Budapest Memorandum was a confidence building measure rather than a formal treaty. And it turns out Putin is nothing more than a con man.

"One of the countries that agreed to guarantee (Ukraine's) integrity, Russia, has on the contrary violated it, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said, arguing that Ukraines fate after voluntarily surrendering its arsenal could encourage other countries to acquire nuclear weapons or refrain from giving them up.

Fact is, based on evidence like the call between Victiria Nuland and Geoff Pyatt , it was a classic coup. This would be like Russia staging a coup in Canada after the US lost the Cold War.

What are the US's goals in tho meddling ? Why are they even there ? Can you please answer this ?

You have a lot of trouble with the posture and the positions of the United States throughout the world, in Eurasia and Europe especially and in particular.

You ought to talk more with more varied people than you have been doing or that you do now, step up your reading and go on the wagon about the petrodollar, the USD$ as the global trade and forex reserve currency, the Brics, the conspiratorial minded media and the like. I speak to you as would a Dutch uncle, although I am not Dutch. It's a role I do not seek or welcome but I've been shocked In Thailand to necessarily have to speak to many of your home brethren abroad in these ways.

I'm trying not to wind up and deliver a long post so I seek your indulgence. You're asking a week long extended seminar discussion.

It's pretty clear to me that since the breakup of the Soviet Union, the United States has been among many who promote the notion of a “whole and free” Europe.

The predicate is the assumption of peace, order and economic freedom in eastern Europe. This commonly shared view in Europe and Eurasia has promoted EU and Nato expansion into the two regions.

Moscow and much of Russia oppose this expansion. So now there’s a question of whether Europe will include Ukraine which is presently facing 40,000 Russian top of the line troops at its eastern border.

There’s a question of whether the present Ukraine-Eurasia crisis amounts to push-back by Russia, and eventually will lead to a new dividing line in Europe, a new wall that when Putin stands on it makes him feel taller.

Moreover, it raises the question of what level of help from the U.S., Nato, global democracies will be available, and what the United States will do if the security of a country in the region is threatened.

Putin's pals, the territorially determined Boyz in Beijing are watching, documenting every move made by every player, and are analyzing continuously. Already, while the wussies in Beijing have been tiptoeing around their region's targeted territories, Putin is telling them to get some balls and invade somebody, shoot 'em up, blow 'em up, take complete control.

I know why I support my government, the Ukraine, Nato, the EU, Japan and other Pacific democracies such as Australia in working to correct Moscow. I know also that a declining Russia presents greater problems to the free world than does a rising Russia and I'd say the current and recent evidence definitely supports this inverse equation.

[Harsh Jones]

The US was in contravention of the Budapest Memorandum by meddling in the internal politics of Ukraine. A nation that is thousands of miles away from them, yet shares a border with Russia.

Putin is the one who proposed the trilateral agreement that the US turned down. Putin is the one that proposed moving the coming December Ukraine election dates closer that the US turned down. Putin is the one that proposed a ceasefire in Ukraine to start negations and the US turned it down.

Yet here you are saying that Russia is attempting to settle differences as if this were the 18th or 19th century. The US knows that any one of the diplomatic proposals by Putin would probably work but they don't want to give Putin that statesmanship. For what reasons I can only guess and be called a conspiracy theorist. The US is willing to escalate a war and see civilians die just to make sure that Putin doesn't broker another peace deal like he did in Syria. The US seems to be jealous of Putins statesmanship.

Moscow and you keep saying the public's mass routing of the Viktor Yanukovych government was a "coup d'état" when in fact neither the Ukraine military nor judiciary were involved.

Putin says the Budapest Memorandum is defunct, nullified, kaput, due to a "revolutionary coup d'état" in Ukraine and because the new government there is not the same government with which Moscow signed the 1994 treaty. Putin is making up international law as he goes along as are those who side with Putin.

The Russian foreign minister failed to show at the Budapest Memorandum Ministerial in Paris on March 5th, leaving the U.S., the UK and the Ukraine governments looking at an empty chair.

Ongoing nuclear negotiations with Iran could be directly impacted by Moscow's nullification of the Budapest Memorandum and the negative impact of not respecting the Memorandum would have on the U.S. negotiating position with Iran. The fact is the Budapest Memorandum was a confidence building measure rather than a formal treaty. And it turns out Putin is nothing more than a con man.

"One of the countries that agreed to guarantee (Ukraine's) integrity, Russia, has on the contrary violated it, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said, arguing that Ukraines fate after voluntarily surrendering its arsenal could encourage other countries to acquire nuclear weapons or refrain from giving them up.

Fact is, based on evidence like the call between Victiria Nuland and Geoff Pyatt , it was a classic coup. This would be like Russia staging a coup in Canada after the US lost the Cold War.

What are the US's goals in tho meddling ? Why are they even there ? Can you please answer this ?

You have a lot of trouble with the posture and the positions of the United States throughout the world, in Eurasia and Europe especially and in particular.

You ought to talk more with more varied people than you have been doing or that you do now, step up your reading and go on the wagon about the petrodollar, the USD$ as the global trade and forex reserve currency, the Brics, the conspiratorial minded media and the like. I speak to you as would a Dutch uncle, although I am not Dutch. It's a role I do not seek or welcome but I've been shocked In Thailand to necessarily have to speak to many of your home brethren abroad in these ways.

I'm trying not to wind up and deliver a long post so I seek your indulgence. You're asking a week long extended seminar discussion.

It's pretty clear to me that since the breakup of the Soviet Union, the United States has been among many who promote the notion of a whole and free Europe.

The predicate is the assumption of peace, order and economic freedom in eastern Europe. This commonly shared view in Europe and Eurasia has promoted EU and Nato expansion into the two regions.

Moscow and much of Russia oppose this expansion. So now theres a question of whether Europe will include Ukraine which is presently facing 40,000 Russian top of the line troops at its eastern border.

Theres a question of whether the present Ukraine-Eurasia crisis amounts to push-back by Russia, and eventually will lead to a new dividing line in Europe, a new wall that when Putin stands on it makes him feel taller.

Moreover, it raises the question of what level of help from the U.S., Nato, global democracies will be available, and what the United States will do if the security of a country in the region is threatened.

Putin's pals, the territorially determined Boyz in Beijing are watching, documenting every move made by every player, and are analyzing continuously. Already, while the wussies in Beijing have been tiptoeing around their region's targeted territories, Putin is telling them to get some balls and invade somebody, shoot 'em up, blow 'em up, take complete control.

I know why I support my government, the Ukraine, Nato, the EU, Japan and other Pacific democracies such as Australia in working to correct Moscow. I know also that a declining Russia presents greater problems to the free world than does a rising Russia and I'd say the current and recent evidence definitely supports this inverse equation.

I used to think that way. Until I educated myself and realized how the system works.

Have you ever noticed how in western "democracies" , leaders get elected and none of the rhetoric leading up to the election materializes ? Look at Nickolas Sarkozy vs Hollande in France. Hollande campaigned as the anti Sarkozy yet he is the exact same now that he is in power. Same thing happened in Canada. Same thing happens everywhere in the club. The reason is, unelected "advisors" run the show behind the scene. GW Bush is Obama. Sarkozy is Holland. Paul Martin is Stephen Harper ect. The policy never changes. Democracy ? Ha !

In order to be in the club , a country basically has to hand over exchange rate, monetary, fiscal and forign policy over to the unelected central authority. And anyone that dares question this is an enemy. They set up this lopsided framework that they define as normal (people like you think it's normal) and anyone that questions the definition of this normal will get destroyed by the propaganda machine and encroached on in every way. Putin in Russia is the perfect example of this.

Most people on this thread are war mongering against Putin and they don't even know why.

[lovetotravel]

I used to think that way. Until I educated myself and realized how the system works.

Have you ever noticed how in western "democracies" , leaders get elected and none of the rhetoric leading up to the election materializes ? Look at Nickolas Sarkozy vs Hollande in France. Hollande campaigned as the anti Sarkozy yet he is the exact same now that he is in power. Same thing happened in Canada. Same thing happens everywhere in the club. The reason is, unelected "advisors" run the show behind the scene. GW Bush is Obama. Sarkozy is Holland. Paul Martin is Stephen Harper ect. The policy never changes. Democracy ? Ha !

In order to be in the club , a country basically has to hand over exchange rate, monetary, fiscal and forign policy over to the unelected central authority. And anyone that dares question this is an enemy. They set up this lopsided framework that they define as normal (people like you think it's normal) and anyone that questions the definition of this normal will get destroyed by the propaganda machine and encroached on in every way. Putin in Russia is the perfect example of this.

Most people on this thread are war mongering against Putin and they don't even know why.

If you think for one minute there aren't "advisors" behind the scenes telling Putin what to do, then you are wrong. Even major politician has advisors behind the scenes. The oligarchs run the show in Russia. Wait till they feel the pinch a bit more and see how things change. This is all about money. The #1 issue in every country world-wide.

You're last comment shows you don't read opposing views. Just put them off and continue along your own, biased, way. The posts from many here are very well articulated. And point out the weaknesses on both sides of the fence. Zero Hedge is a horrible website to read. It's totally one sided. Broaden your readings a bit. It's kinda like only watching Fox news.

[Asiantravel]

From ZeroHedge

European stocks have suffered the most since sanctions began.

Chart: Bloomberg

Oops, Zerohedge once again uses an interesting snap shot or cut off and data plot that paints less than a complete picture. Laughable incomplete snapshot without any understanding of alpha, beta, support levels, and etc.

The MICRX lost 18% right before your chart cut off in late February dropping from 15,010 ish range in late February to 1,247 in March. Micex is currently sitting at 1,333 with a lot of volatility, but is still down 13% since late February 2014.

The Dow in February was around 15,370 and closed this Friday at 16,553.

I sure would prefer a Dow 7% gain since February 2014 over MICEX 13% loss since February 2014.

The DOW does need some correction and profit taking after going from 10,770 to 17,000 in LESS than 3 years. Issues in Israel, Ukraine and etc also pact DOW, but analyst are indicating strong number late 2014 early 2015. A very good time to buy in in certain sectors.

" but analyst are indicating strong number late 2014 early 2015. A very good time to buy in in certain sectors."

but when the money runs out .... what then ?

http://www.acting-man.com/?p=32239

Edited August 10, 2014 by Asiantravel

[Scott]

Inflammatory, off-topic and posts with personal comments have been deleted along with replies.

Please stay on topic and refrain from attacks on other posters.

[Publicus]

The Ukraine parliament will vote later today on the Cabinet approved measure to stop or reduce the flow of Russian oil and gas to Europe through pipelines in the Ukraine.

While this won't make the Europeans happy, it will significantly remove Putin's retaliatory "sanctions" blackmail against Europe.

If the flow to Europe is in any way interrupted by Ukraine itself, what can Putin do or threaten to do -- buy some gold? Dive into a pile of RMB? Call in Edward Snowden or call up Julian Assange? Some energy supplies will get through via other means but Putin losing the Ukraine pipelines would be severe against him and would pull the "retaliatory sanctions" rug out from under him.

Saturday a column of Russian military vehicles marked "Peacekeeper" and moving toward the Ukraine border stopped short of it after Ukraine appealed to the U.S., Moscow and the Red Cross to stop it. Putin has said Russia was prepared to provide "humanitarian assistance" to displaced people in eastern Ukraine. A "humanitarian assistance" convoy of Russian military had entered Georgia in 2008 very shortly before the Russian army invaded.

Shortly after the Russian military convoy stopped short of the Ukraine border, the White House released a joint statement by Prez Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel saying, "Any Russian intervention in Ukraine, even under purported ‘humanitarian’ auspices, without the formal, express consent and authorization of the government of Ukraine is unacceptable, violates international law, and will provoke additional consequences.”

Over the weekend the Ukraine military rejected a cease fire plea from the desperate pro-Russian militias in eastern Ukraine, saying peace will come only when the separatists lay down their arms to quit. The Ukraine army has severed connections between the two pro-Russian held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk and will now push forward closer to each city.

The pro-Russian goons holding Donetsk and Luhansk are digging in near the town of Illovaysk between the two cities, armed with tanks, Grad missiles and armored vehicles in expectation of a major assault by Ukraine armed forces.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Publicus

[Harsh Jones]

The Ukraine parliament will vote later today on the Cabinet approved measure to stop or reduce the flow of Russian oil and gas to Europe through pipelines in the Ukraine.

While this won't make the Europeans happy, it will significantly remove Putin's retaliatory "sanctions" blackmail against Europe.

If the flow to Europe is in any way interrupted by Ukraine itself, what can Putin do or threaten to do -- buy some gold? Dive into a pile of RMB? Call in Edward Snowden or call up Julian Assange? Some energy supplies will get through via other means but Putin losing the Ukraine pipelines would be severe against him and would pull the "retaliatory sanctions" rug out from under him.

Saturday a column of Russian military vehicles marked "Peacekeeper" and moving toward the Ukraine border stopped short of it after Ukraine appealed to the U.S., Moscow and the Red Cross to stop it. Putin has said Russia was prepared to provide "humanitarian assistance" to displaced people in eastern Ukraine. A "humanitarian assistance" convoy of Russian military had entered Georgia in 2008 very shortly before the Russian army invaded.

Shortly after the Russian military convoy stopped short of the Ukraine border, the White House released a joint statement by Prez Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel saying, "Any Russian intervention in Ukraine, even under purported humanitarian auspices, without the formal, express consent and authorization of the government of Ukraine is unacceptable, violates international law, and will provoke additional consequences.

Over the weekend the Ukraine military rejected a cease fire plea from the desperate pro-Russian militias in eastern Ukraine, saying peace will come only when the separatists lay down their arms to quit. The Ukraine army has severed connections between the two pro-Russian held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk and will now push forward closer to each city.

The pro-Russian goons holding Donetsk and Luhansk are digging in near the town of Illovaysk between the two cities, armed with tanks, Grad missiles and armored vehicles in expectation of a major assault by Ukraine armed forces.

Bloomberg siting an EU official :

"Different parts" of the Ukrainian government are actively considering a cut-off of Russian natural gas in transit through Ukraine as part of possible sanctions against Russia, a European Union official says. The EU would oppose such a step by the Ukrainian government, which is drawing up legislation to allow sanctions against Russia because of its encroachment in eastern Ukraine, the EU official tells reporters in Brussels on the condition of anonymity.

[Harsh Jones]

I used to think that way. Until I educated myself and realized how the system works.

Have you ever noticed how in western "democracies" , leaders get elected and none of the rhetoric leading up to the election materializes ? Look at Nickolas Sarkozy vs Hollande in France. Hollande campaigned as the anti Sarkozy yet he is the exact same now that he is in power. Same thing happened in Canada. Same thing happens everywhere in the club. The reason is, unelected "advisors" run the show behind the scene. GW Bush is Obama. Sarkozy is Holland. Paul Martin is Stephen Harper ect. The policy never changes. Democracy ? Ha !

In order to be in the club , a country basically has to hand over exchange rate, monetary, fiscal and forign policy over to the unelected central authority. And anyone that dares question this is an enemy. They set up this lopsided framework that they define as normal (people like you think it's normal) and anyone that questions the definition of this normal will get destroyed by the propaganda machine and encroached on in every way. Putin in Russia is the perfect example of this.

Most people on this thread are war mongering against Putin and they don't even know why.

If you think for one minute there aren't "advisors" behind the scenes telling Putin what to do, then you are wrong. Even major politician has advisors behind the scenes. The oligarchs run the show in Russia. Wait till they feel the pinch a bit more and see how things change. This is all about money. The #1 issue in every country world-wide.

You're last comment shows you don't read opposing views. Just put them off and continue along your own, biased, way. The posts from many here are very well articulated. And point out the weaknesses on both sides of the fence. Zero Hedge is a horrible website to read. It's totally one sided. Broaden your readings a bit. It's kinda like only watching Fox news.

What is it about Putin that makes you want to war monger against him ?

[Asiantravel]

I used to think that way. Until I educated myself and realized how the system works.

Have you ever noticed how in western "democracies" , leaders get elected and none of the rhetoric leading up to the election materializes ? Look at Nickolas Sarkozy vs Hollande in France. Hollande campaigned as the anti Sarkozy yet he is the exact same now that he is in power. Same thing happened in Canada. Same thing happens everywhere in the club. The reason is, unelected "advisors" run the show behind the scene. GW Bush is Obama. Sarkozy is Holland. Paul Martin is Stephen Harper ect. The policy never changes. Democracy ? Ha !

In order to be in the club , a country basically has to hand over exchange rate, monetary, fiscal and forign policy over to the unelected central authority. And anyone that dares question this is an enemy. They set up this lopsided framework that they define as normal (people like you think it's normal) and anyone that questions the definition of this normal will get destroyed by the propaganda machine and encroached on in every way. Putin in Russia is the perfect example of this.

Most people on this thread are war mongering against Putin and they don't even know why.

If you think for one minute there aren't "advisors" behind the scenes telling Putin what to do, then you are wrong. Even major politician has advisors behind the scenes. The oligarchs run the show in Russia. Wait till they feel the pinch a bit more and see how things change. This is all about money. The #1 issue in every country world-wide.

You're last comment shows you don't read opposing views. Just put them off and continue along your own, biased, way. The posts from many here are very well articulated. And point out the weaknesses on both sides of the fence. Zero Hedge is a horrible website to read. It's totally one sided. Broaden your readings a bit. It's kinda like only watching Fox news.

If you consider zero hedge to be one-sided, what side exactly do you think they are representing?

You could say the mainstream media is just as guilty of being one-sided. I mean, just as one example, I haven't heard any reference to the fact that now Ukraine's currency The Hrynia has just traded at record lows but they don't care because they are close to getting $2 billion from the World Bank and IMF courtesy of taxpayers in other countries.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Asiantravel

[konying]

No, the clue is in the piece you quoted.

The EU offered Yanukovich a deal which he initially accepted but Russia then offered him a better one (questionable) which he accepted. Protestors then took to the streets (peaceful ones and very violent ones described as fascists). Shooting and killing broke out from both sides and Mr Y started losing his grip. Note that the EU & US supported the protestors which is the likely start of the violent side of the whole Ukrainian crisis.

Yanukovich stepped down and the protest side took over and appointed a local oligarch as president (there was some sort of 'vote' but did not include all of Ukraine). The head of the CIA visited Kiev, ominously.

By now Russia had had enough and had it's allies in Crimea organise an election which they easily won. It should be noted that the election was mostly free and fair, just done in a hurry.

There is no doubt that Russia supports the ethnic Russians in Ukraine but there has been so much finger-pointing (particularly from the US) about how far that support goes.

The real problem now is, if Russia & (particularly) the separatists are pushed into a corner, that Russia will invade. Then the civil war (which is what it is) will be turned on its head and escalate even more if NATO, the US or the EU start pouring more weapons into the country.

It's really time for both sides to take a step back and let cool heads prevail. Those would be Merkel and the Dutch PM who are heavily affected for different reasons.

Ok. Maybe the EU and the US supported protesters, but did they have boots on the ground? Like what Russia did in the Crimea and is doing now? The answer is NO. Putin admits he had troops on the ground during the Crimea invasion. No arguing that. And he'll eventually admit he had troops in the current conflict. It's a widely known "secret".

Election done in a hurry in the Crimea? That's an understatement. The entire world, other than Russia, agrees it was a sham. Come on. Hardly free and fair. Hard to have a fair election at the end of a gun.

How can Russia invade a sovereign country? That's a violation of international law. Right? Time for Putin to step back. He's the one one with up to 40,000 troops on the border with Ukraine. No other country is doing this. Pretty one sided, eh?

The Dutch PM has a very good reason to be upset with the Russians. They should be ashamed at what happened. And cooperating fully. Which they are not.

According to some sources US did have and does have boots on the ground in Ukraine.

True or untrue is as much speculation as US claiming Russian boots are fighting at the moment

[konying]

The Ukraine parliament will vote later today on the Cabinet approved measure to stop or reduce the flow of Russian oil and gas to Europe through pipelines in the Ukraine.

While this won't make the Europeans happy, it will significantly remove Putin's retaliatory "sanctions" blackmail against Europe.

If the flow to Europe is in any way interrupted by Ukraine itself, what can Putin do or threaten to do -- buy some gold? Dive into a pile of RMB? Call in Edward Snowden or call up Julian Assange? Some energy supplies will get through via other means but Putin losing the Ukraine pipelines would be severe against him and would pull the "retaliatory sanctions" rug out from under him.

Saturday a column of Russian military vehicles marked "Peacekeeper" and moving toward the Ukraine border stopped short of it after Ukraine appealed to the U.S., Moscow and the Red Cross to stop it. Putin has said Russia was prepared to provide "humanitarian assistance" to displaced people in eastern Ukraine. A "humanitarian assistance" convoy of Russian military had entered Georgia in 2008 very shortly before the Russian army invaded.

Shortly after the Russian military convoy stopped short of the Ukraine border, the White House released a joint statement by Prez Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel saying, "Any Russian intervention in Ukraine, even under purported humanitarian auspices, without the formal, express consent and authorization of the government of Ukraine is unacceptable, violates international law, and will provoke additional consequences.

Over the weekend the Ukraine military rejected a cease fire plea from the desperate pro-Russian militias in eastern Ukraine, saying peace will come only when the separatists lay down their arms to quit. The Ukraine army has severed connections between the two pro-Russian held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk and will now push forward closer to each city.

The pro-Russian goons holding Donetsk and Luhansk are digging in near the town of Illovaysk between the two cities, armed with tanks, Grad missiles and armored vehicles in expectation of a major assault by Ukraine armed forces.

Bloomberg siting an EU official :

"Different parts" of the Ukrainian government are actively considering a cut-off of Russian natural gas in transit through Ukraine as part of possible sanctions against Russia, a European Union official says. The EU would oppose such a step by the Ukrainian government, which is drawing up legislation to allow sanctions against Russia because of its encroachment in eastern Ukraine, the EU official tells reporters in Brussels on the condition of anonymity.

Ukraine has stolen enough gas before they refused to pay and were cut off.

According to Gasprom just before they refused to pay , Ukraine doubled the intake.

Would not surprise me if Ukraine would cut off with Russia to sell gas they have stolen and then hold EU hostage to " reconnect "

[konying]

The reality is that, US led and insisted on sanctions and many EU countries followed without thinking ahead.

Like a chess game. Putin set back and did nothing and no one could predict his next move .

Here are the facts. US does around 1% of its business with Russia which US can afford to lose, however many EU countries do as much as 80% , especially Baltic States , who already asking for EU help to fill the 80% losses but offered only 35%.

Belarussia, Chine and South American countries already offered to substitute the trade, so in reality Russia not only will not suffer but will grow more trade with emerging economies leaving the rest out of it.

Let's not forget , there could be another move Putin is planning, but I doubt anyone could even foresee it.

[Publicus]

The Ukraine parliament will vote later today on the Cabinet approved measure to stop or reduce the flow of Russian oil and gas to Europe through pipelines in the Ukraine.

While this won't make the Europeans happy, it will significantly remove Putin's retaliatory "sanctions" blackmail against Europe.

If the flow to Europe is in any way interrupted by Ukraine itself, what can Putin do or threaten to do -- buy some gold? Dive into a pile of RMB? Call in Edward Snowden or call up Julian Assange? Some energy supplies will get through via other means but Putin losing the Ukraine pipelines would be severe against him and would pull the "retaliatory sanctions" rug out from under him.

Saturday a column of Russian military vehicles marked "Peacekeeper" and moving toward the Ukraine border stopped short of it after Ukraine appealed to the U.S., Moscow and the Red Cross to stop it. Putin has said Russia was prepared to provide "humanitarian assistance" to displaced people in eastern Ukraine. A "humanitarian assistance" convoy of Russian military had entered Georgia in 2008 very shortly before the Russian army invaded.

Shortly after the Russian military convoy stopped short of the Ukraine border, the White House released a joint statement by Prez Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel saying, "Any Russian intervention in Ukraine, even under purported humanitarian auspices, without the formal, express consent and authorization of the government of Ukraine is unacceptable, violates international law, and will provoke additional consequences.

Over the weekend the Ukraine military rejected a cease fire plea from the desperate pro-Russian militias in eastern Ukraine, saying peace will come only when the separatists lay down their arms to quit. The Ukraine army has severed connections between the two pro-Russian held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk and will now push forward closer to each city.

The pro-Russian goons holding Donetsk and Luhansk are digging in near the town of Illovaysk between the two cities, armed with tanks, Grad missiles and armored vehicles in expectation of a major assault by Ukraine armed forces.

Bloomberg siting an EU official :

"Different parts" of the Ukrainian government are actively considering a cut-off of Russian natural gas in transit through Ukraine as part of possible sanctions against Russia, a European Union official says. The EU would oppose such a step by the Ukrainian government, which is drawing up legislation to allow sanctions against Russia because of its encroachment in eastern Ukraine, the EU official tells reporters in Brussels on the condition of anonymity.

As just a reminder....

Harsh Jones, on 10 Aug 2014 - 06:25, said:

I used to think that way. Until I educated myself and realized how the system works.

So as I was saying, the Europeans would not be happy about this if Ukraine interrupted the flow through its territory in full or in part. The EU lobbying in Kiev to not approve the new strategies is no doubt pretty heavy at this point with the vote scheduled for Tuesday instead of Monday.

And the EU has fertile lobbying grounds, as Bloomberg's "different parts" of the Ukraine government reference indicates. Any sanctions need to be run by the president, the cabinet, the parliament, the national security council, the government intelligence agency, the central bank. It's a virtual gauntlet.

Kiev may be trying to leverage Russia into restoring the flow of gas Moscow cut off not long ago, the reduction of flow being sharp and severe to Ukraine to the point some EU countries are executing a "reverse flow" of their imported gas back into Ukraine (at market price).

The Ukraine government doesn't have to actually interrupt Putin's flow. Any new legislation authorizing new sanctions against Russia can be passed and simply exist for any contingency the government in Kiev may see occurring or as some say an attempt to leverage Russia to restore gas flow to Ukraine.

The world assumes Washington is siding with Brussels on this one. After all, Putin is not about to consider demanding payment in Rubles, RMB, or de lekkerste cheeseburgers.

[Publicus]

Ukraine back in early May got the first tranche of IMF money, $3.2 billion and will soon get the second tranche of some $2 billion of the $17 billion total package.

The Ukraine currency will come around on its own at this point as will the economy and financial system. Fighting the New Old Empire can get expensive but the money is there.

Gazprom is trying hard to impress everyone by paying off on August 8th the outstanding balance of its $1.2 trillion loan from a consortium of global banks. My banker in the U.S. is indeed a global bank so I'm still waiting for the thank you note from Gazprom (plus interest).

Garry Kasparov says from New York City Putin's a checkers player but is much better at blackjack.

Putin's gas deals give low prices to the CCP Boyz in Beijing, high price gouging to Ukraine from long ago already.

As in Iraq and dozens of other sovereign countries, the U.S. does have shy of 200 military instructors / consultants in Ukraine that are in non-combatant roles. Still, Putin sent out a crew of his best snipers who could only wound the U.S. senior officer in Ukraine, Major General Randy Allen Key (2 stars) of the USAF who is on detail to the Ukraine government from his position as Director of Strategy and Policy of the U.S. European Command. (Look for a Russian general to have a car accident or some such sometime soon.)

[lovetotravel]

I used to think that way. Until I educated myself and realized how the system works.

Have you ever noticed how in western "democracies" , leaders get elected and none of the rhetoric leading up to the election materializes ? Look at Nickolas Sarkozy vs Hollande in France. Hollande campaigned as the anti Sarkozy yet he is the exact same now that he is in power. Same thing happened in Canada. Same thing happens everywhere in the club. The reason is, unelected "advisors" run the show behind the scene. GW Bush is Obama. Sarkozy is Holland. Paul Martin is Stephen Harper ect. The policy never changes. Democracy ? Ha !

In order to be in the club , a country basically has to hand over exchange rate, monetary, fiscal and forign policy over to the unelected central authority. And anyone that dares question this is an enemy. They set up this lopsided framework that they define as normal (people like you think it's normal) and anyone that questions the definition of this normal will get destroyed by the propaganda machine and encroached on in every way. Putin in Russia is the perfect example of this.

Most people on this thread are war mongering against Putin and they don't even know why.

If you think for one minute there aren't "advisors" behind the scenes telling Putin what to do, then you are wrong. Even major politician has advisors behind the scenes. The oligarchs run the show in Russia. Wait till they feel the pinch a bit more and see how things change. This is all about money. The #1 issue in every country world-wide.

You're last comment shows you don't read opposing views. Just put them off and continue along your own, biased, way. The posts from many here are very well articulated. And point out the weaknesses on both sides of the fence. Zero Hedge is a horrible website to read. It's totally one sided. Broaden your readings a bit. It's kinda like only watching Fox news.

What is it about Putin that makes you want to war monger against him ?

Where have I ever said I wanted war with Putin? Never. I just want him to take his troops out of Ukraine and leave them alone. Is that too much to ask? He started this. It's up to him to stop it.

[konying]

I used to think that way. Until I educated myself and realized how the system works.

Have you ever noticed how in western "democracies" , leaders get elected and none of the rhetoric leading up to the election materializes ? Look at Nickolas Sarkozy vs Hollande in France. Hollande campaigned as the anti Sarkozy yet he is the exact same now that he is in power. Same thing happened in Canada. Same thing happens everywhere in the club. The reason is, unelected "advisors" run the show behind the scene. GW Bush is Obama. Sarkozy is Holland. Paul Martin is Stephen Harper ect. The policy never changes. Democracy ? Ha !

In order to be in the club , a country basically has to hand over exchange rate, monetary, fiscal and forign policy over to the unelected central authority. And anyone that dares question this is an enemy. They set up this lopsided framework that they define as normal (people like you think it's normal) and anyone that questions the definition of this normal will get destroyed by the propaganda machine and encroached on in every way. Putin in Russia is the perfect example of this.

Most people on this thread are war mongering against Putin and they don't even know why.

If you think for one minute there aren't "advisors" behind the scenes telling Putin what to do, then you are wrong. Even major politician has advisors behind the scenes. The oligarchs run the show in Russia. Wait till they feel the pinch a bit more and see how things change. This is all about money. The #1 issue in every country world-wide.

You're last comment shows you don't read opposing views. Just put them off and continue along your own, biased, way. The posts from many here are very well articulated. And point out the weaknesses on both sides of the fence. Zero Hedge is a horrible website to read. It's totally one sided. Broaden your readings a bit. It's kinda like only watching Fox news.

What is it about Putin that makes you want to war monger against him ?

Where have I ever said I wanted war with Putin? Never. I just want him to take his troops out of Ukraine and leave them alone. Is that too much to ask? He started this. It's up to him to stop it.

Putin started this?? So US had no hand in it?

Please think twice before responding as I would not want to post links of evidence of US meddling in Ukraine way before the conflict started

[lovetotravel]

If you consider zero hedge to be one-sided, what side exactly do you think they are representing?

You could say the mainstream media is just as guilty of being one-sided. I mean, just as one example, I haven't heard any reference to the fact that now Ukraine's currency The Hrynia has just traded at record lows but they don't care because they are close to getting $2 billion from the World Bank and IMF courtesy of taxpayers in other countries.

Zero Hedge is supposedly run by a broker banned due to insider trading. And as is reported, is very anti-government. It caters to those seeing an "alternative" view.

As far as Ukraine's market goes, I also haven't read any reference to the stock market of Belarus. No conspiracy theory there. Just not big enough news to hit the headlines.

But plenty of articles out there about the world bank/IMF and Ukraine. The dance has been going on for years. Widely published. The world bank/IMF definitely have issues. But that's another discussion.

Again, no conspiracy theory as you get from "Tyler Durden".

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

Zero Hedge^[1] is a batshit insane Austrian economics-based finance blog run by a pseudonymous founder who posts articles under the name "Tyler Durden," after the character from Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk.

Tyler claims to be a "believer in a sweeping conspiracy that casts the alumni of Goldman Sachs as a powerful cabal at the helm of U.S. policy, with the Treasury and the Federal Reserve colluding to preserve the status quo." While this is not an entirely unreasonable statement of the problem,^[2] his solution actually mirrors the anatagonist in Fight Club in that Tyler wants, per Austrian school ideas, to lead a catastrophic market crash in order to destroy banking institutions and bring back "real" free market capitalism.^[3]

The site posts nearly indecipherable analyses of multiple seemingly unrelated subjects to point towards a consistent theme of economic collapse any day now, and has accurately predicted 200 of the last 2 recessions. Tyler seems to repeat The Economic Collapse Blog's idea of posting blog articles many times a day and encouraging people to post it as far and wide as humanly possible. Tyler moves away from the format of long lists to write insanely dense volumes^[4] filled with (often contradicting) jargon that makes one wonder if the writers even know what the words actually mean.^[5] The site first appeared in early 2009, meaning that (given Tyler's habit of taking ashit on each and every positive data point), anyone listening to him from the beginning missed the entire 2009-2013 rally in the equities market.

http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/how-zero-hedge-makes-your-money-vanish.html

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/08/who-is-tyler-durden_21.html

From a comment on the above link:

I got ip banned from zerohedge today for posting comments deriding ZH and the Tylers Durden. I am a trading professional who uses software to trade different assets on exchanges across the globe. I do have an agenda which is to trade and make money. Zerohedge offends me because they are populist, ill-informed, and stir up angry, ignorant commenters cum acolytes and claim to be insurgents against “elites”. Just like Lou Dobbs on CNN. I am beyond suspicious of those propose to put the heads of elites on sticks. ZH are jokers who are engaged in something actually quite dangerous. Just look at the crazy frothing anger by their registered users looking for someone to blame for the US’s current troubles.

Tylers claim to be fighting against manipulation of retail investors and then peddle very tenuous, sometimes simply false information presented as fact. Their fight club trope shows how shallow and irresponsible they really are.

Their Bloomberg screen shots are supposed to be signifiers of their insider status, as “real” wall streeters, but they continuously abuse terminology and basic facts while railing against the state of the modern wor

Thus, the reason so many "sane" investors tend to ignore this website.

[F430murci]

I used to think that way. Until I educated myself and realized how the system works.

Have you ever noticed how in western "democracies" , leaders get elected and none of the rhetoric leading up to the election materializes ? Look at Nickolas Sarkozy vs Hollande in France. Hollande campaigned as the anti Sarkozy yet he is the exact same now that he is in power. Same thing happened in Canada. Same thing happens everywhere in the club. The reason is, unelected "advisors" run the show behind the scene. GW Bush is Obama. Sarkozy is Holland. Paul Martin is Stephen Harper ect. The policy never changes. Democracy ? Ha !

In order to be in the club , a country basically has to hand over exchange rate, monetary, fiscal and forign policy over to the unelected central authority. And anyone that dares question this is an enemy. They set up this lopsided framework that they define as normal (people like you think it's normal) and anyone that questions the definition of this normal will get destroyed by the propaganda machine and encroached on in every way. Putin in Russia is the perfect example of this.

Most people on this thread are war mongering against Putin and they don't even know why.

If you think for one minute there aren't "advisors" behind the scenes telling Putin what to do, then you are wrong. Even major politician has advisors behind the scenes. The oligarchs run the show in Russia. Wait till they feel the pinch a bit more and see how things change. This is all about money. The #1 issue in every country world-wide.

You're last comment shows you don't read opposing views. Just put them off and continue along your own, biased, way. The posts from many here are very well articulated. And point out the weaknesses on both sides of the fence. Zero Hedge is a horrible website to read. It's totally one sided. Broaden your readings a bit. It's kinda like only watching Fox news.

If you consider zero hedge to be one-sided, what side exactly do you think they are representing?

You could say the mainstream media is just as guilty of being one-sided. I mean, just as one example, I haven't heard any reference to the fact that now Ukraine's currency The Hrynia has just traded at record lows but they don't care because they are close to getting $2 billion from the World Bank and IMF courtesy of taxpayers in other countries.

Zero hedge is the nutty side written by a insane dude that lost his Series 7 for breaking the law. I work with the industries best analyst at BofA ML and utilize a platform that has averaged about 18 to 20% since 1991 that invest in about 90 % large to Jumbo caps, 10 % mid caps in a rotating monthly looking forward/estimated earning forecast basis. This platform even had me 80% cash as of December 2007.

That is better than Ivandjiiski ever did even tough Ivandjiiski was cheating and trying to beat the system illegally. So congrats! You chose to listen to an underperforming loser that had to resort to illegal acts to try and be a success. Impressive!

[Harsh Jones]

I used to think that way. Until I educated myself and realized how the system works.

Have you ever noticed how in western "democracies" , leaders get elected and none of the rhetoric leading up to the election materializes ? Look at Nickolas Sarkozy vs Hollande in France. Hollande campaigned as the anti Sarkozy yet he is the exact same now that he is in power. Same thing happened in Canada. Same thing happens everywhere in the club. The reason is, unelected "advisors" run the show behind the scene. GW Bush is Obama. Sarkozy is Holland. Paul Martin is Stephen Harper ect. The policy never changes. Democracy ? Ha !

In order to be in the club , a country basically has to hand over exchange rate, monetary, fiscal and forign policy over to the unelected central authority. And anyone that dares question this is an enemy. They set up this lopsided framework that they define as normal (people like you think it's normal) and anyone that questions the definition of this normal will get destroyed by the propaganda machine and encroached on in every way. Putin in Russia is the perfect example of this.

Most people on this thread are war mongering against Putin and they don't even know why.

If you think for one minute there aren't "advisors" behind the scenes telling Putin what to do, then you are wrong. Even major politician has advisors behind the scenes. The oligarchs run the show in Russia. Wait till they feel the pinch a bit more and see how things change. This is all about money. The #1 issue in every country world-wide.

You're last comment shows you don't read opposing views. Just put them off and continue along your own, biased, way. The posts from many here are very well articulated. And point out the weaknesses on both sides of the fence. Zero Hedge is a horrible website to read. It's totally one sided. Broaden your readings a bit. It's kinda like only watching Fox news.

If you consider zero hedge to be one-sided, what side exactly do you think they are representing?

You could say the mainstream media is just as guilty of being one-sided. I mean, just as one example, I haven't heard any reference to the fact that now Ukraine's currency The Hrynia has just traded at record lows but they don't care because they are close to getting $2 billion from the World Bank and IMF courtesy of taxpayers in other countries.

Yeah. The mainstream media in the west never seems to project things in a way that doesn't fit the governments policies. Like how much has it cost the Ukrainians to turn against Russia rather then engage in talks. A record low in the Hrynia.

The punchline to the IMF bailout is that they can use it on anything other then currency intervention.

[Harsh Jones]

I used to think that way. Until I educated myself and realized how the system works.

Have you ever noticed how in western "democracies" , leaders get elected and none of the rhetoric leading up to the election materializes ? Look at Nickolas Sarkozy vs Hollande in France. Hollande campaigned as the anti Sarkozy yet he is the exact same now that he is in power. Same thing happened in Canada. Same thing happens everywhere in the club. The reason is, unelected "advisors" run the show behind the scene. GW Bush is Obama. Sarkozy is Holland. Paul Martin is Stephen Harper ect. The policy never changes. Democracy ? Ha !

In order to be in the club , a country basically has to hand over exchange rate, monetary, fiscal and forign policy over to the unelected central authority. And anyone that dares question this is an enemy. They set up this lopsided framework that they define as normal (people like you think it's normal) and anyone that questions the definition of this normal will get destroyed by the propaganda machine and encroached on in every way. Putin in Russia is the perfect example of this.

Most people on this thread are war mongering against Putin and they don't even know why.

If you think for one minute there aren't "advisors" behind the scenes telling Putin what to do, then you are wrong. Even major politician has advisors behind the scenes. The oligarchs run the show in Russia. Wait till they feel the pinch a bit more and see how things change. This is all about money. The #1 issue in every country world-wide.

You're last comment shows you don't read opposing views. Just put them off and continue along your own, biased, way. The posts from many here are very well articulated. And point out the weaknesses on both sides of the fence. Zero Hedge is a horrible website to read. It's totally one sided. Broaden your readings a bit. It's kinda like only watching Fox news.

If you consider zero hedge to be one-sided, what side exactly do you think they are representing?

You could say the mainstream media is just as guilty of being one-sided. I mean, just as one example, I haven't heard any reference to the fact that now Ukraine's currency The Hrynia has just traded at record lows but they don't care because they are close to getting $2 billion from the World Bank and IMF courtesy of taxpayers in other countries.

Zero hedge is the nutty side written by a insane dude that lost his Series 7 for breaking the law. I work with the industries best analyst at BofA ML and utilize a platform that has averaged about 18 to 20% since 1991 that invest in about 90 % large to Jumbo caps, 10 % mid caps in a rotating monthly looking forward/estimated earning forecast basis. This platform even had me 80% cash as of December 2007.

That is better than Ivandjiiski ever did even tough Ivandjiiski was cheating and trying to beat the system illegally. So congrats! You chose to listen to an underperforming loser that had to resort to illegal acts to try and be a success. Impressive!

Zerohedge is a financial and political news site from an Austrian economics and libertarian prospective. The founder has turned it into a very successful privately run business.

B of A ML did not exist in 2007. So I am not sure who you were working for in 2007. B of A or ML ..

[Harsh Jones]

If you consider zero hedge to be one-sided, what side exactly do you think they are representing?

You could say the mainstream media is just as guilty of being one-sided. I mean, just as one example, I haven't heard any reference to the fact that now Ukraine's currency The Hrynia has just traded at record lows but they don't care because they are close to getting $2 billion from the World Bank and IMF courtesy of taxpayers in other countries.

Zero Hedge is supposedly run by a broker banned due to insider trading. And as is reported, is very anti-government. It caters to those seeing an "alternative" view.

As far as Ukraine's market goes, I also haven't read any reference to the stock market of Belarus. No conspiracy theory there. Just not big enough news to hit the headlines.

But plenty of articles out there about the world bank/IMF and Ukraine. The dance has been going on for years. Widely published. The world bank/IMF definitely have issues. But that's another discussion.

Again, no conspiracy theory as you get from "Tyler Durden".

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

Zero Hedge^[1] is a batshit insane Austrian economics-based finance blog run by a pseudonymous founder who posts articles under the name "Tyler Durden," after the character from Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk.

Tyler claims to be a "believer in a sweeping conspiracy that casts the alumni of Goldman Sachs as a powerful cabal at the helm of U.S. policy, with the Treasury and the Federal Reserve colluding to preserve the status quo." While this is not an entirely unreasonable statement of the problem,^[2] his solution actually mirrors the anatagonist in Fight Club in that Tyler wants, per Austrian school ideas, to lead a catastrophic market crash in order to destroy banking institutions and bring back "real" free market capitalism.^[3]

The site posts nearly indecipherable analyses of multiple seemingly unrelated subjects to point towards a consistent theme of economic collapse any day now, and has accurately predicted 200 of the last 2 recessions. Tyler seems to repeat The Economic Collapse Blog's idea of posting blog articles many times a day and encouraging people to post it as far and wide as humanly possible. Tyler moves away from the format of long lists to write insanely dense volumes^[4] filled with (often contradicting) jargon that makes one wonder if the writers even know what the words actually mean.^[5] The site first appeared in early 2009, meaning that (given Tyler's habit of taking ashit on each and every positive data point), anyone listening to him from the beginning missed the entire 2009-2013 rally in the equities market.

http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/how-zero-hedge-makes-your-money-vanish.html

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/08/who-is-tyler-durden_21.html

From a comment on the above link:

I got ip banned from zerohedge today for posting comments deriding ZH and the Tylers Durden. I am a trading professional who uses software to trade different assets on exchanges across the globe. I do have an agenda which is to trade and make money. Zerohedge offends me because they are populist, ill-informed, and stir up angry, ignorant commenters cum acolytes and claim to be insurgents against “elites”. Just like Lou Dobbs on CNN. I am beyond suspicious of those propose to put the heads of elites on sticks. ZH are jokers who are engaged in something actually quite dangerous. Just look at the crazy frothing anger by their registered users looking for someone to blame for the US’s current troubles.

Tylers claim to be fighting against manipulation of retail investors and then peddle very tenuous, sometimes simply false information presented as fact. Their fight club trope shows how shallow and irresponsible they really are.

Their Bloomberg screen shots are supposed to be signifiers of their insider status, as “real” wall streeters, but they continuously abuse terminology and basic facts while railing against the state of the modern wor

Thus, the reason so many "sane" investors tend to ignore this website.

Zero Hedge

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Zero Hedge

Zero Hedge is a news website, content aggregator, and collection of blogs by contributing editors. It reports on economics, Wall Street, and the financial sector and is credited with bringing the controversial practice of flash trading to public attention in 2009 via a series of posts alleging that Goldman Sachs' access to flash order information allowed the firm to gain unfair profits. The news portion of the site is written by a group of editors who collectively write under the pseudonym "Tyler Durden", a character from the novel and film Fight Club.

Despite speculation that "Tyler Durden" is a pseudonym of Daniel Ivandjiiski,^[3][4] who was penalized for insider trading in New York in September 2008,^[5]Ivandjiiski denies being a founder of Zero Hedge. Rather, he says he is one of several writers contributing to the site under the pseudonym.^[5] In an interview, "Durden" said there were four editors at Zero Hedge^[2] but another editor says there are up to 40.

In December 2012, Bank of America blocked its employees' access to Zero Hedge.

Bill Gross, the head of the biggest bond fund in the world, PIMCO, is an avid Zero Hedge reader. On August 9, 2013 he tweeted, "Gross: Strategists/writers I follow? Dalio, Durden, Bianco, Arnott, Aitken, Santelli, Grant, Grantham, Inker, Marks, Quaintenance & Brodsky."

[F430murci]

If you think for one minute there aren't "advisors" behind the scenes telling Putin what to do, then you are wrong. Even major politician has advisors behind the scenes. The oligarchs run the show in Russia. Wait till they feel the pinch a bit more and see how things change. This is all about money. The #1 issue in every country world-wide.

You're last comment shows you don't read opposing views. Just put them off and continue along your own, biased, way. The posts from many here are very well articulated. And point out the weaknesses on both sides of the fence. Zero Hedge is a horrible website to read. It's totally one sided. Broaden your readings a bit. It's kinda like only watching Fox news.

If you consider zero hedge to be one-sided, what side exactly do you think they are representing?

You could say the mainstream media is just as guilty of being one-sided. I mean, just as one example, I haven't heard any reference to the fact that now Ukraine's currency The Hrynia has just traded at record lows but they don't care because they are close to getting $2 billion from the World Bank and IMF courtesy of taxpayers in other countries.

Zero hedge is the nutty side written by a insane dude that lost his Series 7 for breaking the law. I work with the industries best analyst at BofA ML and utilize a platform that has averaged about 18 to 20% since 1991 that invest in about 90 % large to Jumbo caps, 10 % mid caps in a rotating monthly looking forward/estimated earning forecast basis. This platform even had me 80% cash as of December 2007.

That is better than Ivandjiiski ever did even tough Ivandjiiski was cheating and trying to beat the system illegally. So congrats! You chose to listen to an underperforming loser that had to resort to illegal acts to try and be a success. Impressive!

Zerohedge is a financial and political news site from an Austrian economics and libertarian prospective. The founder has turned it into a very successful privately run business.

B of A ML did not exist in 2007. So I am not sure who you were working for in 2007. B of A or ML ..

I am a lawyer for a large firm. I don't use my Series 7 or 66. I just passed those exams to better learn the subject matter of the case I itigate and arbitrate.

I know when BofA acquired ML. My law firm played a small role in due dilligence.

Wife works for BofA in Global Corporate and Investment Banking.

I have invested my own money with ML since 1996/97. The platform I am in has averaged somewhere close to 20% since its inception in 1981.

I don't work for BofA Ml. I represented BofA in the CMO debacle due to its acquisition of Countrywide that spawned several class actions and ERISA cases and I arbitrated something like 350 cases for BofA and Morgan Keegan between 2008 to present primarily funds heavily weighted in CDO and junk bond (ala James Kelso bind funds) that got slaughtered in 2008.

Edited August 12, 2014 by F430murci

[Asiantravel]

If you consider zero hedge to be one-sided, what side exactly do you think they are representing?

You could say the mainstream media is just as guilty of being one-sided. I mean, just as one example, I haven't heard any reference to the fact that now Ukraine's currency The Hrynia has just traded at record lows but they don't care because they are close to getting $2 billion from the World Bank and IMF courtesy of taxpayers in other countries.

Zero Hedge is supposedly run by a broker banned due to insider trading. And as is reported, is very anti-government. It caters to those seeing an "alternative" view.

As far as Ukraine's market goes, I also haven't read any reference to the stock market of Belarus. No conspiracy theory there. Just not big enough news to hit the headlines.

But plenty of articles out there about the world bank/IMF and Ukraine. The dance has been going on for years. Widely published. The world bank/IMF definitely have issues. But that's another discussion.

Again, no conspiracy theory as you get from "Tyler Durden".

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge

Zero Hedge^[1] is a batshit insane Austrian economics-based finance blog run by a pseudonymous founder who posts articles under the name "Tyler Durden," after the character from Fight Club by Chuck Palahniuk.

Tyler claims to be a "believer in a sweeping conspiracy that casts the alumni of Goldman Sachs as a powerful cabal at the helm of U.S. policy, with the Treasury and the Federal Reserve colluding to preserve the status quo." While this is not an entirely unreasonable statement of the problem,^[2] his solution actually mirrors the anatagonist in Fight Club in that Tyler wants, per Austrian school ideas, to lead a catastrophic market crash in order to destroy banking institutions and bring back "real" free market capitalism.^[3]

The site posts nearly indecipherable analyses of multiple seemingly unrelated subjects to point towards a consistent theme of economic collapse any day now, and has accurately predicted 200 of the last 2 recessions. Tyler seems to repeat The Economic Collapse Blog's idea of posting blog articles many times a day and encouraging people to post it as far and wide as humanly possible. Tyler moves away from the format of long lists to write insanely dense volumes^[4] filled with (often contradicting) jargon that makes one wonder if the writers even know what the words actually mean.^[5] The site first appeared in early 2009, meaning that (given Tyler's habit of taking ashit on each and every positive data point), anyone listening to him from the beginning missed the entire 2009-2013 rally in the equities market.

http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/how-zero-hedge-makes-your-money-vanish.html

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/08/who-is-tyler-durden_21.html

From a comment on the above link:

I got ip banned from zerohedge today for posting comments deriding ZH and the Tylers Durden. I am a trading professional who uses software to trade different assets on exchanges across the globe. I do have an agenda which is to trade and make money. Zerohedge offends me because they are populist, ill-informed, and stir up angry, ignorant commenters cum acolytes and claim to be insurgents against “elites”. Just like Lou Dobbs on CNN. I am beyond suspicious of those propose to put the heads of elites on sticks. ZH are jokers who are engaged in something actually quite dangerous. Just look at the crazy frothing anger by their registered users looking for someone to blame for the US’s current troubles.

Tylers claim to be fighting against manipulation of retail investors and then peddle very tenuous, sometimes simply false information presented as fact. Their fight club trope shows how shallow and irresponsible they really are.

Their Bloomberg screen shots are supposed to be signifiers of their insider status, as “real” wall streeters, but they continuously abuse terminology and basic facts while railing against the state of the modern wor

Thus, the reason so many "sane" investors tend to ignore this website.

But ZeroHedge is not all written by one “ insane dude “ ?

It includes mere links to a host of other websites that all happen to share a similar theme which I can fully appreciate some people would rather not hear and would even prefer others not to hear.

Yes, they have been constantly preaching “ economic collapse any day now “and just

because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it's not going to happen at some point.

Why ? because just based on historic facts alone no fiat currency has ever survived in the end the way particularly the way the US dollar has been treated since they abandoned the gold standard and the astonishing belief that any country can simply go on printing money infinitely without any consequences is much more insane than any article that you might read on ZeroHedge.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Asiantravel

[Harsh Jones]

I used to think that way. Until I educated myself and realized how the system works.

Have you ever noticed how in western "democracies" , leaders get elected and none of the rhetoric leading up to the election materializes ? Look at Nickolas Sarkozy vs Hollande in France. Hollande campaigned as the anti Sarkozy yet he is the exact same now that he is in power. Same thing happened in Canada. Same thing happens everywhere in the club. The reason is, unelected "advisors" run the show behind the scene. GW Bush is Obama. Sarkozy is Holland. Paul Martin is Stephen Harper ect. The policy never changes. Democracy ? Ha !

In order to be in the club , a country basically has to hand over exchange rate, monetary, fiscal and forign policy over to the unelected central authority. And anyone that dares question this is an enemy. They set up this lopsided framework that they define as normal (people like you think it's normal) and anyone that questions the definition of this normal will get destroyed by the propaganda machine and encroached on in every way. Putin in Russia is the perfect example of this.

Most people on this thread are war mongering against Putin and they don't even know why.

If you think for one minute there aren't "advisors" behind the scenes telling Putin what to do, then you are wrong. Even major politician has advisors behind the scenes. The oligarchs run the show in Russia. Wait till they feel the pinch a bit more and see how things change. This is all about money. The #1 issue in every country world-wide.

You're last comment shows you don't read opposing views. Just put them off and continue along your own, biased, way. The posts from many here are very well articulated. And point out the weaknesses on both sides of the fence. Zero Hedge is a horrible website to read. It's totally one sided. Broaden your readings a bit. It's kinda like only watching Fox news.

What is it about Putin that makes you want to war monger against him ?

Where have I ever said I wanted war with Putin? Never. I just want him to take his troops out of Ukraine and leave them alone. Is that too much to ask? He started this. It's up to him to stop it.

If you are just a casual news observer watching CNN then yes. You would think that Putin started this. But Putin did not start this.

You are war mongering by picking a side doing your part in denigrating Russia when you haven't taken the time to figure out what is happening here.

All of Putins actions have been reactions to the coup that was aided and funded by the US within Ukraine. Sure there was already factions within Ukraine that were against Russia. But that does not absolve Washington. And if you have already made up your mind that the US had no involvement in the coup then no evidence would be enough to change your mind. This action by the US is a direct contravention of all treaties and memorandums that were signed after the collapse of the USSR.

Russia has been turning a blind eye to most of the meddling in political affairs by the US regarding its borders. They had to in order to join the WTO. (This is what I mean about the US arbitrarily setting the parameters for what a good standing member of the international community should be.) But when the US started meddling in Ukraine, that is where the line was drawn. Specifically, the Crimea where most of the population is Russian and where the Russian army has its only warm water naval port.

[Asiantravel]

If you consider zero hedge to be one-sided, what side exactly do you think they are representing?

You could say the mainstream media is just as guilty of being one-sided. I mean, just as one example, I haven't heard any reference to the fact that now Ukraine's currency The Hrynia has just traded at record lows but they don't care because they are close to getting $2 billion from the World Bank and IMF courtesy of taxpayers in other countries.

Zero hedge is the nutty side written by a insane dude that lost his Series 7 for breaking the law. I work with the industries best analyst at BofA ML and utilize a platform that has averaged about 18 to 20% since 1991 that invest in about 90 % large to Jumbo caps, 10 % mid caps in a rotating monthly looking forward/estimated earning forecast basis. This platform even had me 80% cash as of December 2007.

That is better than Ivandjiiski ever did even tough Ivandjiiski was cheating and trying to beat the system illegally. So congrats! You chose to listen to an underperforming loser that had to resort to illegal acts to try and be a success. Impressive!

Zerohedge is a financial and political news site from an Austrian economics and libertarian prospective. The founder has turned it into a very successful privately run business.

B of A ML did not exist in 2007. So I am not sure who you were working for in 2007. B of A or ML ..

I am a lawyer for a large firm. I don't use my Series 7 or 66. I just passed those exams to better learn the subject matter of the case I itigate and arbitrate.

I know when BofA acquired ML. My law firm played a small role in due dilligence.

Wife works for BofA in Global Corporate and Investment Banking.

I have invested my own money with ML since 1996/97. The platform I am in has averaged somewhere close to 20% since its inception in 1981.

I don't work for BofA Ml. I represented BofA in the CMO debacle due to its acquisition of Countrywide that spawned several class actions and ERISA cases and I arbitrated something like 350 cases for BofA and Morgan Keegan between 2008 to present primarily funds heavily weighted in CDO and junk bond (ala James Kelso bind funds) that got slaughtered in 2008.

Since 2008 zero hedge have continually covered all the sleazy corrupt and criminal activities in the banking sector, while the mainstream media hardly said boo.

How much coverage did you get in the MSM about matters such as Goldman Sachs advising their clients to do one thing but doing the opposite themselves, the libor scandal, the money-laundering scandal at HSBC and I could go on and on.

I would never regard zero hedge as representing investment advice in any way but it is a source of news and information, which sadly you cannot get in the mainstream media these days on the way in which the world economy has become an oligarchy between bankers and politicians leaving the little man on the street totally unprotected.

[lovetotravel]

What is it about Putin that makes you want to war monger against him ?

Where have I ever said I wanted war with Putin? Never. I just want him to take his troops out of Ukraine and leave them alone. Is that too much to ask? He started this. It's up to him to stop it.

Putin started this?? So US had no hand in it?

Please think twice before responding as I would not want to post links of evidence of US meddling in Ukraine way before the conflict started

I should have clarified. He started the military actions. We were discussing war after all, not just meddling.