Declare UK tax while live in Thailand?

[whitethai]

I am not rich yet but if I wanted to move to thailand and had an internet business and had to declare tax to UK how do I live in Thailand and declare my tax?

[Soutpeel]

form a company, and pay tax in Thailand, but if your living in Thailand why would you need to declare tax in the UK anyway

[meatboy]

Thailand has a double taxation agreement with the uk.so you register here and pay as you would in the uk.no need to inform the uk.tax revenue/costoms.

[rhythmworx]

Don't bother paying, you wont get a pension anyway under the new pension laws that may of may not have come into effect yet..

[garzhe]

You need to notify HMRC that you are no longer resident in the UK and need their agreement that under UK legislation you are non resident for UK tax otherwise you are still required to submit a tax return declaring your worldwide earnings. The double taxation agreement does not exclude you from paying tax in the UK, it can only be used to deduct the tax paid in Thailand from your UK tax liability. Legislation regarding obtaining non residence in the UK is quite complicated. Ties like property owned in the UK and family ties can prevent you from obtaining non residency. The advise "Dont Declare" is not useful if you have assets in the UK as you will always be at the mercy of HMRC. See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/residence.htm for detailed information regarding non residency. Also see http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/residence.htm#1

[MoonShadow]

Don't bother paying, you wont get a pension anyway under the new pension laws that may of may not have come into effect yet..

Payment, or non payment, of tax has no bearing on a UK pension; that is quite separate and determined on, Social Security payments as well as other criteria....

[crazykopite]

I have lived in the kingdom for over 8 years on the extension of stay visa ( retired ) I have no intention of ever returning to the UK neverthe less they HMRC deduct taxes every month from my various pensions and in two years time it will be even more when I start receiving my old age state pension I hate and detest seeing the monies I worked hard for being taxed to support those who have no interest in doing a days work that is one of the reasons I left rip of Britain.

[Time Traveller]

form a company, and pay tax in Thailand, but if your living in Thailand why would you need to declare tax in the UK anyway

I have no idea what UK's tax laws are, but why would anyone ask tax advice from anonymous people on a forum like this? And the last place any internet business would want to register is thailand. Try a tax haven

Edited August 9, 2014 by Time Traveller

[ldnguy]

form a company, and pay tax in Thailand, but if your living in Thailand why would you need to declare tax in the UK anyway

If you live in Thailand but are still ordinarily resident in UK you will still have to pay tax in UK. Depends on exact circumstances, whether you have left UK forever or only a few months/years, etc. It's not as simple as just saying you live in Thailand.

[ldnguy]

I have lived in the kingdom for over 8 years on the extension of stay visa ( retired ) I have no intention of ever returning to the UK neverthe less they HMRC deduct taxes every month from my various pensions and in two years time it will be even more when I start receiving my old age state pension I hate and detest seeing the monies I worked hard for being taxed to support those who have no interest in doing a days work that is one of the reasons I left rip of Britain.

The majority in the UK work. It's a small minority that doesn't work and the amount of your tax that goes to them is minimal. That is a very odd reason for leaving a country, especially when you consider where money goes in other countries. What do you think happens to the tax you pay in Thailand? Are you happy how it's spent?

Edited August 9, 2014 by ldnguy

[ldnguy]

form a company, and pay tax in Thailand, but if your living in Thailand why would you need to declare tax in the UK anyway

I have no idea what UK's tax laws are, but why would anyone ask tax advice from anonymous people on a forum like this? And the last place any internet business would want to register is thailand. Try a tax haven

The reason people ask on here is because others have faced similar problems. You get some excellent answers on this forum. You just have to learn to ignore the nonsense posts like yours. A tax haven isn't suitable for a small business. It would cost more than it would save.

[ldnguy]

To the OP - if you leave the UK for good and get non-resident tax status, then you won't have to pay tax on internet earnings that are received in the UK. You also won't have to pay tax in Thailand because the earnings don't arise in Thailand. But these assumes that you aren't working in Thailand. If you are, then you may need a work permit. For example, if you have already built a website and it's earning money without further work, you can receive that tax-free to your UK bank account. Nothing to do with Thailand, even if you live there. And won't be taxed in UK, as you'd be non-resident for tax purposes.

[sandrabbit]

you have to declare to the taxman that you have permanently left the UK by filling in the form P85 - leaving the UK getting your tax right. you should also have opened an online self assessment tax account although this is useless as living abroad you have to fill in a paper tax return form .... I still own a house in the UK so I fill in a tax return every year, I pay an accountant to do this so there's no mistakes, and pay no tax but once my house is sold will then ask the tax office permission to stop filling in a tax return as I have no intention of living in the UK again but if I did move back would then just declare myself again to the taxman.

if you are retired there are swings and roundabouts to declaring yourself as having permanently left the UK such as your state pension not rising although this is under discussion about giving British citizens the same pension rights worldwide although don't hold your breath about it happening anytime soon. also, if you don't have medical insurance in Thailand you might be better off not declaring having left. seek advice from professionals about this, I know of a firm of financial advisors with British advisors in Bangkok where I get newsletters emailed to me and they seem professional - Credenda Associates,Level 16, Prime Building, 24 Sukhumvit 21, Klong Toey, Wattana, Bangkok. as always caveat emptor, buyer beware.

[softail]

As a privat tax-payer :

If you stay in Thailand more than 182 days in a year, you have to pay tax to Thailand - from all inncome you bring in to the kingdom. If the money have been in a bank for one year in UK before you transfer and you can show documentation about this, you do not have to pay tax . That's thai tax-law !

You will need a thai taxcard first off all....

Then it's up to your UK renevue how/if they refound the tax you pay to them, and what kind of documentation they demand.

This is only if UK have a tax-agrement with tahiland...and UK's provision about dobbeltax .

Thailand have no routines for foreign privat taxpayers, and the rules are quite different from district to district, and anyway it used to be wery diffecult to have any documentation from the thai renevue at all.

[davidmann]

what happens if you just don't declare your taxes

[sandrabbit]

what happens if you just don't declare your taxes

where, Thailand or UK?

[brewsterbudgen]

you have to declare to the taxman that you have permanently left the UK by filling in the form P85 - leaving the UK getting your tax right. you should also have opened an online self assessment tax account although this is useless as living abroad you have to fill in a paper tax return form .... I still own a house in the UK so I fill in a tax return every year, I pay an accountant to do this so there's no mistakes, and pay no tax but once my house is sold will then ask the tax office permission to stop filling in a tax return as I have no intention of living in the UK again but if I did move back would then just declare myself again to the taxman.

if you are retired there are swings and roundabouts to declaring yourself as having permanently left the UK such as your state pension not rising although this is under discussion about giving British citizens the same pension rights worldwide although don't hold your breath about it happening anytime soon. also, if you don't have medical insurance in Thailand you might be better off not declaring having left. seek advice from professionals about this, I know of a firm of financial advisors with British advisors in Bangkok where I get newsletters emailed to me and they seem professional - Credenda Associates,Level 16, Prime Building, 24 Sukhumvit 21, Klong Toey, Wattana, Bangkok. as always caveat emptor, buyer beware.

I complete an online UK Self-Assessment tax return each year, even though I've lived and worked full-time in Thailand since 2005. I have no desire to be "non resident" as I may have to return to the UK at a moment's notice if I lose my job/work permit here. I'm quite happy to pay UK tax on my (minimal) UK earnings which are just interest on my UK bank accounts.

[EnglishJohn]

form a company, and pay tax in Thailand, but if your living in Thailand why would you need to declare tax in the UK anyway

... and put 2 million into it in capital plus 50K salary per month to yourself (minimum) plus employ 4 Thai workers (including paying their salary and tax) and rent an office to sit them in for the photographs and inspections.

Then continue to pay them to sit around and do nothing so you can have your work permit.

[softail]

I don't know anything about the UK tax-law, but if you stay in Thailand more than 182 days a year, you have to deal with the Thai tax law.

Use two accounts in two different thai banks.

One for your "secret" money... If you sell your car, house or so on, and one for the white money - pension, salary i.e.

The thai revenue will problaby not look for you, but if they do and they find you be prepared to pay extra tax, and they can go 1-3 years back in time.

If I where you, I would wait and see ( and hope ).

If you live in the districts north in Thailand, they will never look for you !

I walked in to my main Revenue office and told them I wanted to pay tax.

They had never heard about a farang paying tax, had no documents and no routines about it at all.

The funny girl in the office told me to pay the tea-money for one year at ones....and the other 14 employees had a good laugh.

I would like to ad some links, but my proxy-server dont let me send links to day. Sorry.

[laislica]

I have lived in the kingdom for over 8 years on the extension of stay visa ( retired ) I have no intention of ever returning to the UK neverthe less they HMRC deduct taxes every month from my various pensions and in two years time it will be even more when I start receiving my old age state pension I hate and detest seeing the monies I worked hard for being taxed to support those who have no interest in doing a days work that is one of the reasons I left rip of Britain.

Oh I know how you feel, me too but....

Your contributions + any employer contributions were made Before Tax to encourage you to save for retirement.

The Tax Man is kind enough to wait until you draw the pension before he takes his bite!

I have lived full time in Spain for years, last visit to the UK 2010.

I have no property in the UK, Have property in Spain.

My wife was refused a visa for a three week holiday to visit my family......

From answers to a question I recently asked here,

if the pension was created with money earned in the UK,

even being non-resident will not save you from the tax.

It may feel wrong but it is probably quite right that we pay tax somewhere.

The dodgy thing is IHT, it is possible to be taxed twice for that if you get your paperwork wrong.

Remember, what you resist will persist.

Let go of your bad feelings about Tax etc and enjoy every day like it is your last!

Good luck

[watso63]

Don't bother paying, you wont get a pension anyway under the new pension laws that may of may not have come into effect yet..

Payment, or non payment, of tax has no bearing on a UK pension; that is quite separate and determined on, Social Security payments as well as other criteria....

Nothing wrong with a good dig at "the powers that be", but the freeze on pensions is a direct link to taxation unless you think like Gordon Brown, that NI contributions are not a tax. 555...not! Edited August 9, 2014 by watso63

[watso63]

form a company, and pay tax in Thailand, but if your living in Thailand why would you need to declare tax in the UK anyway

If you live in Thailand but are still ordinarily resident in UK you will still have to pay tax in UK. Depends on exact circumstances, whether you have left UK forever or only a few months/years, etc. It's not as simple as just saying you live in Thailand.

It is for me...except that I have to pay VAT on my passport renewals. :-)

[watso63]

what happens if you just don't declare your taxes

If you are not elligible to pay tax, say nothing...legal.

If you are, say nothing...illegal.

If your earnings are below the basic tax threshold £10,000/year or tax free, certain pensions eg war pension...legal.

If you own a property in the UK and rent it out without declaring it...who's to know. Illegal.

[Muhendis]

No matter where you live in the world any income from the UK above the minimum allowance threshold is taxable by HMRC and you are required to declare all. Filling out your self assessment online is no longer possible if you are outside the UK. My personal feeling is that since you don't have any of the advantages/services that resident UK tax payers get there should be a either a lower rate or a higher threshold for non-residents (of the UK) but until non-residents can cause serious ballot box problems, That ain't gonna happen.

[brewsterbudgen]

No matter where you live in the world any income from the UK above the minimum allowance threshold is taxable by HMRC and you are required to declare all. Filling out your self assessment online is no longer possible if you are outside the UK. My personal feeling is that since you don't have any of the advantages/services that resident UK tax payers get there should be a either a lower rate or a higher threshold for non-residents (of the UK) but until non-residents can cause serious ballot box problems, That ain't gonna happen.

Are you sure about this. I've lived in Thailand for 9 years and every year I get sent a notice to complete my Self Assessment form and do so online. In fact I completed this years last week, online. They send the receipts and all correspondence to my address in Bangkok, and even gave me a "dummy" UK postcode as the online form wouldn't accept a Thai one!

[Muhendis]

There is normally a tick box to indicate that you are non-resident. This is no longer there hence if you cannot enter a valid postcode you cannot move to the next page. I queried this by email and was told that online self assessment was only available to UK residents. Please tell us more about "and even gave me a "dummy" UK postcode". How did you get them to do that?

[brewsterbudgen]

There is normally a tick box to indicate that you are non-resident. This is no longer there hence if you cannot enter a valid postcode you cannot move to the next page. I queried this by email and was told that online self assessment was only available to UK residents. Please tell us more about "and even gave me a "dummy" UK postcode". How did you get them to do that?

When I completed my first online self-assessment (from Bangkok) I had the same issue with the postcode. I sent them an email and got this the reply. I've used the "fictitious" postcode ever since!

Dear Mr XXXXXX Thank you for your email. Some customers are having problems with the `postcode' field on the TellUs about you page of the 08/09 HMRC return. This box has been incorrectly made mandatory, so if you do not have a postcode (e.g. overseas addresses, etc) you will receive the error message `Please complete postcode'.To resolve this issue, please use the following fictitious postcode Q1 1IJ (Quebec, One, One, India, Juliet). This will allow you to continue completing the rest of your return.

Regards Online Services Helpdesk Opening hours: 8am to 8pm, 7 days a week. Website:   www.hmrc.gov.ukemail:     [email protected]: 0845 6055999 Minicom:   0845 3667805Fax:       0845 3667828

[rgs2001uk]

I have lived in the kingdom for over 8 years on the extension of stay visa ( retired ) I have no intention of ever returning to the UK neverthe less they HMRC deduct taxes every month from my various pensions and in two years time it will be even more when I start receiving my old age state pension I hate and detest seeing the monies I worked hard for being taxed to support those who have no interest in doing a days work that is one of the reasons I left rip of Britain.

None of my biz, have you ever considered QROPS?

Personally I wouldnt recommend it, but its an avenue for you to explore.

[rgs2001uk]

No matter where you live in the world any income from the UK above the minimum allowance threshold is taxable by HMRC and you are required to declare all. Filling out your self assessment online is no longer possible if you are outside the UK. My personal feeling is that since you don't have any of the advantages/services that resident UK tax payers get there should be a either a lower rate or a higher threshold for non-residents (of the UK) but until non-residents can cause serious ballot box problems, That ain't gonna happen.

Are you sure about this. I've lived in Thailand for 9 years and every year I get sent a notice to complete my Self Assessment form and do so online. In fact I completed this years last week, online. They send the receipts and all correspondence to my address in Bangkok, and even gave me a "dummy" UK postcode as the online form wouldn't accept a Thai one!

I left the UK in 1990 and have never been sent one, how would they even know where to send it to?

[Muhendis]

There is normally a tick box to indicate that you are non-resident. This is no longer there hence if you cannot enter a valid postcode you cannot move to the next page. I queried this by email and was told that online self assessment was only available to UK residents. Please tell us more about "and even gave me a "dummy" UK postcode". How did you get them to do that?

When I completed my first online self-assessment (from Bangkok) I had the same issue with the postcode. I sent them an email and got this the reply. I've used the "fictitious" postcode ever since!

Dear Mr XXXXXX Thank you for your email. Some customers are having problems with the `postcode' field on the TellUs about you page of the 08/09 HMRC return. This box has been incorrectly made mandatory, so if you do not have a postcode (e.g. overseas addresses, etc) you will receive the error message `Please complete postcode'.To resolve this issue, please use the following fictitious postcode Q1 1IJ (Quebec, One, One, India, Juliet). This will allow you to continue completing the rest of your return.

Regards Online Services Helpdesk Opening hours: 8am to 8pm, 7 days a week. Website:   www.hmrc.gov.ukemail:     [email protected]: 0845 6055999 Minicom:   0845 3667805Fax:       0845 3667828

Many thanks Brewsterbudgen. It's noticeable that the HMRC help page tells you to tick a box which is not there and from their e-mail to you they know there is something "incorrectly made mandatory". So can't they just fix it?