Am I too old to have more children and do it all again?

[BradinAsia]

There is a different but very important perspective that needs to be considered: that of the child.

 

On a separate non-Thai forum, I once read a post from a 18yr old boy who wanted to move to England from Thailand. He had a British visa but had lived in Thailand his whole life. This stunned the forum and we asked him: how did this happen?

 

Apparently his father was British, came to Thailand, had a kid with a local, and died when the kid was young. Then the mother died when he was a teenager, and the local village passed him around and "took care of him".

 

He spoke fluent English and was obviously very intelligent--and he had a pretty critical, cynical perspective on Thailand and Thai culture. He said he was desperate to get out--away from the dirt, the corruption, the casual cruelty, the lack of logic and obsession with saving face. He hoped to make a life for himself in the west.

 

It is barbaric to give your child a worse life than you were given. Any western man who has a child in Thailand, or any other third-world country, should be ashamed.

 

"Any western man who has a child in Thailand, or any other third-world country, should be ashamed."

 

I nominate this for one of the TOP 5 most ignorant statements ever made on TV. Having raised children in the U.S.

I would much prefer to raise kids here in Thailand, whether you want to call it 3rd world, 4th world or whatever.

 

The idea that farangland is superior in quality-of-life to Thailand either comes from a mind that is quite narrow or 

from one who lives in a sex-tourist area.

[flyingdoc]

Fascinating diversity of opinions on this all important subject!

[up-country_sinclair]

 

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/04/09/the-case-against-kids

 

 

 

Interesting article. 

 

Thanks. 

[Wasa]

One of the problems with life, we are all mortal,, I know its stating the bleeding obvious but that is what we are really talking abut here.

 

I am sure you are a fit healthy fella and will likely carry on ticking for 20 years or more but like all people you will slow down. There is no shame in it, its just life. You have had children already and enjoyed that part of your life, so in my opinion don't go there. Remember the nappies, the schooling, the worry, the discipline, the terrible teens, the higher education and I haven't even talked about money yet.

 

Do you really want to be doing all that again when you are trucking through your sixties? At that time of life your time should be your own,you should be enjoying the freedom of kids and probably mortgages and all the stuff we get stuck in. You will never be able to experience that properly if you dive into reproducing again. 

 

So, just because it is possible to start again here in mature years doesnt not mean you should. What is wrong with a slightly older lady anyway,, I am not talking about a zimmer framed old biddy but perhaps early 40's, done the children bit and is looking to enjoy life.. I am not looking for anyone but I met one of the bar ladies whilst having a beer recently, she was in hr 40's (I guess), very attractive and her kids are grown up now.

 

For the young lady you met you also have to ask yourself why is she looking at a man in her mid fifties. I am sorry to say it but I know everyone thinks it, she sees you as potential easier life. Mid fifties, no mortgage, western, probably financially secure etc,, lets be really honest back in Aus how many ladies in their younger years jump for men 20 years or more their senior? Not many for sure,, here is different of course.

 

So, for the young lady I would let her go if she has her heart set on kids, it will be better for her and find yourself someone who is hot, a bit older and just looking to enjoy life..

 

Anyway, just my opinion, good luck fella, hope you end up happy whatever you do.

 

 

 

 

[Wasa]

Great answer......just that one line you wrote-

 

".......just because it is possible to start again here in mature years doesn't not mean you should"

 

Just struck me as simple but so true.

[Wasa]

One of the problems with life, we are all mortal,, I know its stating the bleeding obvious but that is what we are really talking abut here.

 

I am sure you are a fit healthy fella and will likely carry on ticking for 20 years or more but like all people you will slow down. There is no shame in it, its just life. You have had children already and enjoyed that part of your life, so in my opinion don't go there. Remember the nappies, the schooling, the worry, the discipline, the terrible teens, the higher education and I haven't even talked about money yet.

 

Do you really want to be doing all that again when you are trucking through your sixties? At that time of life your time should be your own,you should be enjoying the freedom of kids and probably mortgages and all the stuff we get stuck in. You will never be able to experience that properly if you dive into reproducing again. 

 

So, just because it is possible to start again here in mature years doesnt not mean you should. What is wrong with a slightly older lady anyway,, I am not talking about a zimmer framed old biddy but perhaps early 40's, done the children bit and is looking to enjoy life.. I am not looking for anyone but I met one of the bar ladies whilst having a beer recently, she was in hr 40's (I guess), very attractive and her kids are grown up now.

 

For the young lady you met you also have to ask yourself why is she looking at a man in her mid fifties. I am sorry to say it but I know everyone thinks it, she sees you as potential easier life. Mid fifties, no mortgage, western, probably financially secure etc,, lets be really honest back in Aus how many ladies in their younger years jump for men 20 years or more their senior? Not many for sure,, here is different of course.

 

So, for the young lady I would let her go if she has her heart set on kids, it will be better for her and find yourself someone who is hot, a bit older and just looking to enjoy life..

 

Anyway, just my opinion, good luck fella, hope you end up happy whatever you do.

 

 

 

 

[transam]

One thing folk seem to have forgotten about. Females give up the reproduction stuff in their 40/50's, males are a different animal, it can go on until death. Are some here saying having a woody in later years is unnatural...? If you do then you are wrong...

[Wasa]

 

 

What is wrong with a slightly older lady anyway,,

Menopause!
It's a deal breaker, and it's happening soon.
Psychological effects start in the mid 40s, continues on until late 50s.
If you've tried it once, you wouldn't want to risk it a second time.

 

 

Reading that brought back memories of my UK ex.............
 

 

Ha ha and my ex in Australia, it was the worst time, constantly sweating, can't sleep, angry as a hornet, snapping at me over every little thing. I tried to be empathetic, but in the end just too hard.... 

[transam]

 

 

 

What is wrong with a slightly older lady anyway,,

Menopause!
It's a deal breaker, and it's happening soon.
Psychological effects start in the mid 40s, continues on until late 50s.
If you've tried it once, you wouldn't want to risk it a second time.

 

 

Reading that brought back memories of my UK ex.............
 

 

Ha ha and my ex in Australia, it was the worst time, constantly sweating, can't sleep, angry as a hornet, snapping at me over every little thing. I tried to be empathetic, but in the end just too hard.... 

 

 

Been there, got the T and buggered off..............
 

[Wasa]

One of the problems with life, we are all mortal,, I know its stating the bleeding obvious but that is what we are really talking abut here.

 

I am sure you are a fit healthy fella and will likely carry on ticking for 20 years or more but like all people you will slow down. There is no shame in it, its just life. You have had children already and enjoyed that part of your life, so in my opinion don't go there. Remember the nappies, the schooling, the worry, the discipline, the terrible teens, the higher education and I haven't even talked about money yet.

 

Do you really want to be doing all that again when you are trucking through your sixties? At that time of life your time should be your own,you should be enjoying the freedom of kids and probably mortgages and all the stuff we get stuck in. You will never be able to experience that properly if you dive into reproducing again. 

 

So, just because it is possible to start again here in mature years doesnt not mean you should. What is wrong with a slightly older lady anyway,, I am not talking about a zimmer framed old biddy but perhaps early 40's, done the children bit and is looking to enjoy life.. I am not looking for anyone but I met one of the bar ladies whilst having a beer recently, she was in hr 40's (I guess), very attractive and her kids are grown up now.

 

For the young lady you met you also have to ask yourself why is she looking at a man in her mid fifties. I am sorry to say it but I know everyone thinks it, she sees you as potential easier life. Mid fifties, no mortgage, western, probably financially secure etc,, lets be really honest back in Aus how many ladies in their younger years jump for men 20 years or more their senior? Not many for sure,, here is different of course.

 

So, for the young lady I would let her go if she has her heart set on kids, it will be better for her and find yourself someone who is hot, a bit older and just looking to enjoy life..

 

Anyway, just my opinion, good luck fella, hope you end up happy whatever you do.

 

 

 

 

Great answer......just that one line you wrote-

 

".......just because it is possible to start again here in mature years doesn't not mean you should"

 

Just struck me as simple but so true.

[Wasa]

 

 

It is barbaric to give your child a worse life than you were given. Any western man who has a child in Thailand, or any other third-world country, should be ashamed.

 

... 

 

.

 

Is Thailand a third world nation?? Seems to be a lot of happy kids around here nonetheless.......I'm back in Australia at the moment and the kids (when you see one, there's not many here) don't look any happier than those in Thailand

[Wasa]

 

 

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/04/09/the-case-against-kids

 

 

 

Interesting article. 

 

Thanks. 

 

 

Very interesting, a great read.....a little heavy going at the beginning but the second half raises some really interesting concepts, especially the notion that the more offspring we bring into the world the more we diminish the quality of life for their siblings... 

[Wasa]

 

There is a different but very important perspective that needs to be considered: that of the child.

 

On a separate non-Thai forum, I once read a post from a 18yr old boy who wanted to move to England from Thailand. He had a British visa but had lived in Thailand his whole life. This stunned the forum and we asked him: how did this happen?

 

Apparently his father was British, came to Thailand, had a kid with a local, and died when the kid was young. Then the mother died when he was a teenager, and the local village passed him around and "took care of him".

 

He spoke fluent English and was obviously very intelligent--and he had a pretty critical, cynical perspective on Thailand and Thai culture. He said he was desperate to get out--away from the dirt, the corruption, the casual cruelty, the lack of logic and obsession with saving face. He hoped to make a life for himself in the west.

 

It is barbaric to give your child a worse life than you were given. Any western man who has a child in Thailand, or any other third-world country, should be ashamed.

 

"Any western man who has a child in Thailand, or any other third-world country, should be ashamed."

 

I nominate this for one of the TOP 5 most ignorant statements ever made on TV. Having raised children in the U.S.

I would much prefer to raise kids here in Thailand, whether you want to call it 3rd world, 4th world or whatever.

 

The idea that farangland is superior in quality-of-life to Thailand either comes from a mind that is quite narrow or 

from one who lives in a sex-tourist area.

 

 

I agree, just a really strange thing to say.......

[mrfaroukh]

Yes Sir you are too old for having new child and also what guarantee do you have that she stay with you rest of your life???

[ALFREDO]

I lucky? Never had such discussion with my Gfs. 

The decision, yes or no baby was, is never mine.

 

NO! Once it was, when I was 22  my GF 19 young, in my home country.

So it came a abortion,

with it, a finished relationship after 6 month and a,

so I can say today, completely different direction in life. Could say a negative direction. 

 

Since than, the women decide, not caring, whatever I say and get the children.

 

2 with a woman in my home country when I was 29 and 39.

 

1 with a Thai woman when I was 41.

 

And now, with 52, the third child arriving with my current GF, after already two children with her when i was 43 and 46.

 

All said to me, if you do not like our child, just move on, but I will get your Baby.

 

I have a good heart and so,

I never left a woman, for the reason she did not care enough not to get pregnant, or even provoked,

with all might, to get pregnant, (2 women),  or did not think of an abortion. 

 

Sorry OP, I am no help, went and still go with the flow. 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2014 by ALFREDO

[KKr]

 

to answer the headline question posed is easy: if you ask yourself the question, you are too old.

 

You reckon about the age thingy...?

http://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CBsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ranker.com%2Flist%2Fgreatest-minds-of-all-time%2Fwalter-graves&ei=UCnnU4a0M4uD8gWPgYH4DQ&usg=AFQjCNExbcEaErVg8UgLkEAVPBUeUTo63A
 

 

Yes. about the age thingy, about having children, about large age differences in relationships. 
We tend to adjust to the environment we live in, and somehow if you go off "the norm" feel guilty or insecure.

It took me about 20 years to get to the stage of not worrying what the neighbours say, and finally moving to Asia.

[Jaggg88]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

OK Wasa ... awesome first post and welcome to the Forum ...  alt=cowboy.gif>

 

I am not so different from you ... a younger, but ballpark.

 

My choices didn't come down to ... I've found a nice Lady and she wants Children ... do I?

 

My choices were to find the Partner who I wanted to be together with for a long time and then decide if we wanted children.

 

I have and we did.

 

 

Just some facts ... and I'm not asking her age.

 

If your gf is of the age of 35 or younger, there is a good chance that she and you have a reasonable chance of conceiving.

 

Once the general age of 35 is reached, the likelyhood or a non-assisted conception diminishes.

 

Sure, there will be stories of Mothers, in their 40's bearing a child ... but that, medically, is the minority.

 

Source

 

As you can see from the graph above ... the age of 35 is a rough cross-over point.

 

By the age of 35, according to this chart a woman has approximately 6% of her ovarian reserves left.

.

 

Yeah I looked at stats like that and thought my wife would never get pregnant as she was married for 5 years before and never conceived. I was 56 and she was 39 and she arrived in the UK on 28th November and was pregnant on the 1st December - I must be firing some very live bullets  fortunately it was proved the child was conceived in the UK and I didn't have to pay hospital fees.

[David48]

^^  Well done Jaggg88 ... you beat the odds ... 

.

[EmptyHead]

Your in your mid 50's.  How about a girl in her mid 30's?  Plenty of them have a child (or children) who is already grown up (late teens)

 

This way you have a girl who is young compared to you (20 years), she has already had a child or children (so she won't crave any more), and her kids are old enough that you don't have to do anything (except put them through university, lol).

 

Problem solved.

 

First, you need to talk with your GF and do right by her (but that doesn't mean becoming a father again).  Second, you need to get a vasectomy.  I had one 3 days ago and can make a recommendation.  See this thread here (my post is #3) http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/742169-sterilisation-where-and-how-much/

 

[laolover88]

From my experience, (which may not be helpful!)...
I have done this...I am in my late 60s and have a 12 year old Luk Khreung daughter..I also have a son in the UK who is
30 and I am a grandpa!!I lived with my first Thai wife for 2 years or so. No contraceptives, no children. We went to the UK and got married. In one month she was pregnant! When the child was 6 she decided she wanted neither the child, nor me, and disappeared! So I think the real issues are those of trust, money and your gf's family. I was not wildly pleased to be left in Thailand on my own with a 6 year old! The mother's family did not give a toss..Not a Thai child! You have to take account of the fact that Thais are not particularly amenable to Luk Khrueng. I know they applaud them whether they are 50%Chinese,50% Japanese or Korean..but at the end of the day you will be the person that guides your child through the morass of Thai values and attitudes. Of course if you take the child abroad, it will not be the same.Now the issues are money and the future. Fortunately I have a house in the UK, and the kind of pension that is transferable, if I die, to a child. The dilemma is that it a reasonable sum in Thailand but not in the UK! The other thing that has saddened me is that I simply do not have the energy, now, to do a lot of the things that I would like to do with her. It is not the mind, but the body that weakens. Also consider your family's genes! My parents and grandparents all lived into their late eighties...so I am assuming, probably against the odds!, that I will not die before my daughter is in her 20s, finished school etc...I have set myself a target of living until she is at least 25.
I think, in retrospect, I would not have a child with a girl to whom I was not married, and a girl who had not been to my country. However I did that and I was still wrong!..But I have a beautiful daughter!!

[asean]

back to the OP. It is all about money and health. If you decide have a child after 50 then you better be well cashed up and accept the fact that you will be over 70 when you attend their graduation. 

[michael12345]

 

 

It is barbaric to give your child a worse life than you were given. Any western man who has a child in Thailand, or any other third-world country, should be ashamed.

Dude, what an idiotic thing to say. Take a step back, look at your motives for saying this in this particular sub forum, and seek counsel.

 

 

My only motive is to get the selfish old men on this forum to stop thinking about themselves, their penises, and their egos for one second. I do not expect it to work, but it's worth a shot.

[recycler]

My strongest advise is to temper you reproductive urges and live with your girlfriend for a few years first as some "bags" and secrets get unpacked later in the course of a relation, I've had some pretty nasty experiences in the past and was happy that no kids were involved.

 

Our daughter was born almost 2 years ago when I was 49 and we where together for 3 years, she's an amazing little girl and it's a great experience, but it's not as easy to run after her than it was when my sons from my first marriage where young. On the other hand I'm more mature and experienced as a father and feel more balanced in bringing her up. My oldest are now 22 and 20, in university in Europe, the 3rd is 17 and lives with us in Thailand attending an international school and my wife's son of almost 7 is with us too. So we have a busy and demanding household, no chance to retire anytime soon!

 

For me 50 was sort of a barrier as by that age, given good health and a bit of luck, I would still be able to "finish the job" and see your kids grow up, over 50 that would become more difficult I guess.

 

Last but not least, you have to count in that having kids in Thailand is expensive as good schools come at a high cost and your demands on housing and transportation will also be higher. I spend more here in Thailand than I have ever done in Europe and prices are increasing very fast here. If I compare with my brother in Europe with a family of of 5, child support, almost free and good education, medical care etc. he is much cheaper off than we are.

[The Usual Suspect]

If you are in your mid-fifties and have already raised three children, why in the world would you want to have more? Before your kid even finishes college you'll be in you mid- seventies for Crisake! Do you seriously think that ALL younger Thai women want children? Many well educated, younger professional Thai women are financially secure and are not locked into that "must have children to support me in my old age" mentality. I know several gals in this situation and am married to one myself. I'm sixty four and am married to a woman eighteen years my junior. She has been supporting herself very well since graduating from college and is very well off by Thai standards. She is adamant about not wanting children. If you are limiting your prospects to uneducated, unemployed farm girls, than you will probably get plenty of sex and plenty of babies and plenty of financial burdens to weigh you down in your old age. If that's what your looking for, you must have a serious masochistic streak. Good luck either way.

[losgrad]

To the OP,

First, you've been unsuccessful in past relationships that lasted many years.
Second, you've known this 'live-in' GF for less than one year.

Probability is you will not likely have a successful relationship with or without a child from her, but will be responsible for your new child for the next 18 years or until you're over 70 years old.

Your other children did not ensure your past relationships, why would the creation of this new child be any different.

However, it sounds like you made the sacrifices for your current children, so if they respect you, then enjoy your future grandchildren.


P.s. Are you still working for the financials or because you love your work? Edited August 13, 2014 by losgrad

[AnotherOneAmerican]

If you are in your mid-fifties and have already raised three children, why in the world would you want to have more? Before your kid even finishes college you'll be in you mid- seventies for Crisake! Do you seriously think that ALL younger Thai women want children? Many well educated, younger professional Thai women are financially secure and are not locked into that "must have children to support me in my old age" mentality. I know several gals in this situation and am married to one myself. I'm sixty four and am married to a woman eighteen years my junior. She has been supporting herself very well since graduating from college and is very well off by Thai standards. She is adamant about not wanting children. If you are limiting your prospects to uneducated, unemployed farm girls, than you will probably get plenty of sex and plenty of babies and plenty of financial burdens to weigh you down in your old age. If that's what your looking for, you must have a serious masochistic streak. Good luck either way.

 

Pretty much all young Thai women want children. 

Not many of us old dudes manage to marry or date "well educated younger professional financially secure Thai women".

Neither did you, at 46 she can hardly be called young, can no longer have babies, even if she wanted, so why would you even discuss the subject with her?

[David48]

If you are in your mid-fifties and have already raised three children, why in the world would you want to have more? Before your kid even finishes college you'll be in you mid- seventies for Crisake! Do you seriously think that ALL younger Thai women want children? Many well educated, younger professional Thai women are financially secure and are not locked into that "must have children to support me in my old age" mentality. I know several gals in this situation and am married to one myself. I'm sixty four and am married to a woman eighteen years my junior. She has been supporting herself very well since graduating from college and is very well off by Thai standards. She is adamant about not wanting children. If you are limiting your prospects to uneducated, unemployed farm girls, than you will probably get plenty of sex and plenty of babies and plenty of financial burdens to weigh you down in your old age. If that's what your looking for, you must have a serious masochistic streak. Good luck either way.

 

Pretty much all young Thai women want children. 

Not many of us old dudes manage to marry or date "well educated younger professional financially secure Thai women".

Neither did you, at 46 she can hardly be called young, can no longer have babies, even if she wanted, so why would you even discuss the subject with her?

 

You and I both did the maths.

 

Of course, @ 46 she is going to say ... No Honey, you are correct, I don't want Children.

.
 

[The Usual Suspect]

 

If you are in your mid-fifties and have already raised three children, why in the world would you want to have more? Before your kid even finishes college you'll be in you mid- seventies for Crisake! Do you seriously think that ALL younger Thai women want children? Many well educated, younger professional Thai women are financially secure and are not locked into that "must have children to support me in my old age" mentality. I know several gals in this situation and am married to one myself. I'm sixty four and am married to a woman eighteen years my junior. She has been supporting herself very well since graduating from college and is very well off by Thai standards. She is adamant about not wanting children. If you are limiting your prospects to uneducated, unemployed farm girls, than you will probably get plenty of sex and plenty of babies and plenty of financial burdens to weigh you down in your old age. If that's what your looking for, you must have a serious masochistic streak. Good luck either way.

 

Pretty much all young Thai women want children. 

Not many of us old dudes manage to marry or date "well educated younger professional financially secure Thai women".

Neither did you, at 46 she can hardly be called young, can no longer have babies, even if she wanted, so why would you even discuss the subject with her?

 

You and I both did the maths.

 

Of course, @ 46 she is going to say ... No Honey, you are correct, I don't want Children.

 

 

At 46 my wife is still able to conceive. She decided in her late twenties that she didn't want children. Perhaps "most" young Thai women want children, but not all. It is possible to find younger women who have something more in mind for their lives than just squirting out babies. Before I met my wife I corresponded with younger women from all over Asia, Europe, and South America. I made it very plain to them that I did not want more children ( I have four grown kids and six grandchildren). I told them that I had a vasectomy and was not interested in marrying a woman with kids. Those that were dead set on having kids bailed, those that weren't stuck around and continued to correspond, including my wife. It may be difficult to find them, but it's not impossible.

 

[AnotherOneAmerican]

 

At 46 my wife is still able to conceive. She decided in her late twenties that she didn't want children. Perhaps "most" young Thai women want children, but not all. It is possible to find younger women who have something more in mind for their lives than just squirting out babies. Before I met my wife I corresponded with younger women from all over Asia, Europe, and South America. I made it very plain to them that I did not want more children ( I have four grown kids and six grandchildren). I told them that I had a vasectomy and was not interested in marrying a woman with kids. Those that were dead set on having kids bailed, those that weren't stuck around and continued to correspond, including my wife. It may be difficult to find them, but it's not impossible.

 

 

 

According to a US fertility expert with 30 years experience.

"I know of no woman over the age of 46 who has conceived using her own eggs"

(link provided in an earlier post)

 

Who should I believe, your wife with a Thai education, or an American medical expert with 30 years experience?

More likely your wife was always infertile. It does happen!

[apiwan]

To be honest.

If I was you. I wouldn't do it.

You've bought up kids already.

Enjoy your life now and take it easy. And concentrate on your kids. Even though grown up.

The trouble when a Thai girl wants a kid. We have to think do they really want a child of their own to care and love.

Or do they really want a luk krueng.?

As for you taking on someone else's kid and treating it as your own. I take my hat off to you mate.

Not many can. And I'm not sure I could. But then I've never been put in that position.

I'd like to think I could.

Whatever you decide best of luck to you