no money to pay overstay

[Tyrant]

Sorry for asking (I read 1, 2 and 4th pages), why the guy in question didn't reported the missing documents the day it happened? between Immigration and his embassy everything would have been clarified from the start.

[smedly]

what a waste of 67 posts on TVF

Disagree, the information posted in this thread by Badbanker, Thai visa forum's member with actual experience of helping large numbers of people subject to immigration detention, the courts, the IDC and deportation from Thailand, is very, very pertinent indeed.

well yes but it's also posted elswhere

[bigguy]

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20,000 baht is the fine. if he can't pay that immirgaiton will take him to court. The judge will normally set a lesser fine and if he can't pay that he will have to do some time in jail, at paying off the fine at 200 baht a day.

But if that happens he will also need to pay for a ticket out to his home country. Immigration will keep him in jail till he pays for the ticket himself.

"20,000 baht is the fine. if he can't pay that immigration will take him to court."

Correct. If a person can't pay the fine they need to first clear the fine by appearing in court, receive a sentence, do the time in a regular prison, and finally be transferred to IDC and await deportation. Most countries will not pay for their citizens ticket home. I was told by the poor guy later that there are people sitting in IDC (Africans) that have been there for nine years, waiting...

The OP should prioritize payment of the fine over the ticket home. I have heard the the IDC is much more pleasant than a regular Thai prison.

no point doing either if he cant get a ticket out, but Im pretty sure he can. Im trying to find out what his fine will be to avoid prison time. most of the long timers in IDC are there voluntarily, they are wanted for crimes in their home countries

The US Embassy will provide a 1-way ticket home, but it must be paid back within a given time, after your return to the states.

[slygeeza]

Sorry for asking (I read 1, 2 and 4th pages), why the guy in question didn't reported the missing documents the day it happened? between Immigration and his embassy everything would have been clarified from the start.

I dont know, as Ive said Ive only known him a short while and dont know his history, but it took me a while to talk him into reporting it to the police because he thought he would be arrested and have no way of getting help

[mumjokmok]

i knew a german guy who was in the same situation 3 years ago. did a long stint in hospital, no cash, long expired visa. he had a deal made for him with the help of someone at rajamanagala uni who assited germans abroad, his embassy could not help. this guy ended up doing 6 days in suan plu immigration detention (now thats an eye opener of an experience) and paying 6,000 baht at the airport after his stint in the cell. he had no problem returning to thailand the following year.

i think most embassies have stopped helping 'farangs' in these types of situations for good reason, but the thais are unlikely to really want to lock your friend up, they would want him to pay some kind of fine and stamp him out of the country asap.

[Strangebrew]

or opition 2 sneak over Cambodia go to immigration there say I look at passport noticed didn't get stamp or visa I did visa using service they took passport did the show with others must of missed mine there had us walk as group through then handed us passport back.

[smedly]

Sorry for asking (I read 1, 2 and 4th pages), why the guy in question didn't reported the missing documents the day it happened? between Immigration and his embassy everything would have been clarified from the start.

because the guy is either

A - Stupid

B - A Liar

C - Thinks he's a smartass

D - A mixture of all three above

I simply find it hard to believe that anyone can get themselves into such a situation after simply losing their passport, there are many options that could have been employed probably nearly a year ago or more likely longer if this guy actually fessed up about what he's been doing for a much longer period, I'd like to know how long he's been in Thailand and based on that most likely deserves all he gets

My guess would be he exhausted the friends and family loan option a long time ago

[slygeeza]

Sorry for asking (I read 1, 2 and 4th pages), why the guy in question didn't reported the missing documents the day it happened? between Immigration and his embassy everything would have been clarified from the start.

because the guy is either

A - Stupid

B - A Liar

C - Thinks he's a smartass

D - A mixture of all three above

I simply find it hard to believe that anyone can get themselves into such a situation after simply losing their passport, there are many options that could have been employed probably nearly a year ago or more likely longer if this guy actually fessed up about what he's been doing for a much longer period, I'd like to know how long he's been in Thailand and based on that most likely deserves all he gets

My guess would be he exhausted the friends and family loan option a long time ago

he didnt just lose his passport, he lost all IDs, contacts, money etc. whats he to do. walk up to strangers and get called a stupid lying smartass? but thanks for the useful information

[Tchooptip]

Maybe its better for him to throw away his passport and cross the Mekong river at night and surrender to the Lao Authorities or cross from Koh Lipe to Langkawi with a longtail boat at nigh and surrender there, maybe less prison time in the neighbouring countries compared to Thailand and more human prisons, I don't know but I would look into the options and the borders are not that well guarded.

More humane prisons in Laos or Malaysia ? After illegally breaching their borders ? Some homework may be in order methinks. Bribing the 'right' people might be an option but if the OP's friend doesnt even have 20K baht I wish him every success avoiding some of the misery outlined below. I think the OP's friend needs a better plan.

How many countries do you know where they have a prison just for foreigners, and a mixed-sex prison at that ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonthong_Prison

Prison cells measuring about sixteen square metres are used to hold up to six inmates.^[4] Rations consist of two bowls of pig fat water soup and sticky rice per cell per day.^[4]

According to former prisoner Kay Danes, prisoners are regularly tortured using techniques including mock executions, beatings and waterboarding,^[5] and some prisoners have had their genitals burned

I also wonder how many Hmong share your rosy view of prisons in the PDR ?

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO1001/S00247.htm

Here's a little snippet re Malaysian jails - remember that this is a country which is still willing to execute foreigners:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Malaysia#Rights_of_inmates

Prisoners suffer from overcrowding, poor food, and irregular water supplies. Inmates are allowed visitors. Religious observance is allowed, provided the religion in question is not one of 56 Islamic sects considered “deviant.” Medical care is poor, with hundreds dying of communicable diseases in IDCs, prisons, and jails from 2001–2007. NGOs and the media are usually not allowed to monitor conditions in prison. Preventive and investigative detention are permitted. Police are provided with human-rights training. Caning is a common punishment for serious crimes; boys over 10 may be sentenced to what is called a light caning.^[3]

Thanks for the links ...very informative indeed

Like for instance: "The report describes the abuse: "In Malaysian prisons specially trained caning officers tear into victims’ bodies with a meter-long cane swung with both hands at high speed. The cane rips into the victim’s naked skin, pulps the fatty tissue below, and leaves scars that extend to muscle fibre. The pain is so severe that victims often lose consciousness." ... Welcome back to the middle age Malaysia.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Tchooptip

[AYJAYDEE]

Sorry for asking (I read 1, 2 and 4th pages), why the guy in question didn't reported the missing documents the day it happened? between Immigration and his embassy everything would have been clarified from the start.

because the guy is either

A - Stupid

B - A Liar

C - Thinks he's a smartass

D - A mixture of all three above

I simply find it hard to believe that anyone can get themselves into such a situation after simply losing their passport, there are many options that could have been employed probably nearly a year ago or more likely longer if this guy actually fessed up about what he's been doing for a much longer period, I'd like to know how long he's been in Thailand and based on that most likely deserves all he gets

My guess would be he exhausted the friends and family loan option a long time ago

he didnt just lose his passport, he lost all IDs, contacts, money etc. whats he to do. walk up to strangers and get called a stupid lying smartass? but thanks for the useful information

call friends and family

[theoldgit]

@slygeeza, maybe your friend should join Thaivisa.com, he could seek advice in the first instance without having to rely on a, well meaning, acquaintance, he could also rebut any uncalled for remarks.

Whilst I admire you for sticking up for this chap, and I feel for his predicament, the sad fact is that there are a lot of scammers out there and it's difficult to sort out the genuine cases from the not so.

I sincerely hope that it works out.

[scorecard]

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I don't belive the embassy will help him. Why don't you lend him the money? It's your friend and it's not that much money. Or get in touch with his family or friends in his home country?

Have you actually tried his embassy?

Some embassies refuse any form of help or funding.

Some will help with immediate funding (which has to be repaid, usually involves signed guarantees of repayment from family members in the home country).

Some will quickly contact his family, family transfer the funds to the embassy who then quickly ensure it is used for the intended purpose.

etc...

[Docno]

Sorry for asking (I read 1, 2 and 4th pages), why the guy in question didn't reported the missing documents the day it happened? between Immigration and his embassy everything would have been clarified from the start.

because the guy is either

A - Stupid

B - A Liar

C - Thinks he's a smartass

D - A mixture of all three above

I simply find it hard to believe that anyone can get themselves into such a situation after simply losing their passport, there are many options that could have been employed probably nearly a year ago or more likely longer if this guy actually fessed up about what he's been doing for a much longer period, I'd like to know how long he's been in Thailand and based on that most likely deserves all he gets

My guess would be he exhausted the friends and family loan option a long time ago

he didnt just lose his passport, he lost all IDs, contacts, money etc. whats he to do. walk up to strangers and get called a stupid lying smartass? but thanks for the useful information

Well, I guess the first thing he could have done would have been to go to his embassy when the 'loss' happened and get their help in sorting it out. I'm not talking about them lending/giving him money, but helping him get new IDs, passport, ATM/credit cards, etc. But getting new IDs/passport is a critical first step. Seems that he went to Thailand carrying all the cash he has in his pocket and no return ticket. Recipe for disaster (and very poor judgement), but it could have been turned around with a quick trip to the embassy at the start of this saga.

[watcharacters]

.

I think this thread would have been better served had the OP refrained from characterizing the needy person he knows as a friend unless he meant it in the "A stranger is just a friend i haven't met yet" Will Rogers kind of mode. Had he characterized the needy person as one he simply knows or as an acquaintance, less focus would probably have been made on the nonexistent friendship and less argument and back biting would have ensued.

But be that as it may, I'll certainly say I'm impressed with how many generous TV members posted who are more than happy to spend some other persons money. Good job.

I'll keep the change.

[thaitakeaway]

Sorry for asking (I read 1, 2 and 4th pages), why the guy in question didn't reported the missing documents the day it happened? between Immigration and his embassy everything would have been clarified from the start.

because the guy is either

A - Stupid

B - A Liar

C - Thinks he's a smartass

D - A mixture of all three above

I simply find it hard to believe that anyone can get themselves into such a situation after simply losing their passport, there are many options that could have been employed probably nearly a year ago or more likely longer if this guy actually fessed up about what he's been doing for a much longer period, I'd like to know how long he's been in Thailand and based on that most likely deserves all he gets

My guess would be he exhausted the friends and family loan option a long time ago

he didnt just lose his passport, he lost all IDs, contacts, money etc. whats he to do. walk up to strangers and get called a stupid lying smartass? but thanks for the useful information

Well, I guess the first thing he could have done would have been to go to his embassy when the 'loss' happened and get their help in sorting it out. I'm not talking about them lending/giving him money, but helping him get new IDs, passport, ATM/credit cards, etc. But getting new IDs/passport is a critical first step. Seems that he went to Thailand carrying all the cash he has in his pocket and no return ticket. Recipe for disaster (and very poor judgement), but it could have been turned around with a quick trip to the embassy at the start of this saga.

We should all become fiction writers - so good are we at embellishing a story. Fact is nobody knows why the dude did what he did. And luckily for him, now the OP might be able to point him in the right direction to stop him falling through the cracks any longer. It's called looking out for each other. Off topic, but a well known farang writer who's made his name keeping tabs on Thailand's night life, in his column this week bemoaned the lack of a an official, or otherwise, supportive voice for western foreigners in LOS, and singled out the lost opportunity by the members of this forum because many here treat the misfortunes of others as a sport (my words).

[slygeeza]

.

I think this thread would have been better served had the OP refrained from characterizing the needy person he knows as a friend unless he meant it in the "A stranger is just a friend i haven't met yet" Will Rogers kind of mode. Had he characterized the needy person as one he simply knows or as an acquaintance, less focus would probably have been made on the nonexistent friendship and less argument and back biting would have ensued.

But be that as it may, I'll certainly say I'm impressed with how many generous TV members posted who are more than happy to spend some other persons money. Good job.

I'll keep the change.

he hasnt asked anything of me so I dont know what you mean by needy

[mercman24]

just a few words, GETTING CAUGHT OUT NOW ARN'T THEY, oh wow is me, sorry got no sympathy,if this crackdown was not brought in these people would still be "bumming" around.

[theoldgit]

Offensive post removed

[96tehtarp]

This topic is now at page 5. It was nice to see the OP get the info he needed fairly early on, well before this topic descended into general discussion mode. I couldn't care less for the validity of anyone's "story", or why they found themselves in such a predicament. The info given the OP is helpful to those who need it.

Thanks again to Mario2008, badbanker, mods and others.

[HerbalEd]

If he has no money, I expect that he now has no choice - hand himself in and throw himself at the mercy of the Thai authorities. If he has a Police report, I would suggest that he present that to Immigration, but ultimately we are talking about someone who knowingly overstayed for 7 months and now has no money - the last guy that happened to ended up living on the beach in Pattaya. If this guy really is your friend, you might want to consider a little sage advice prior to his departure.

I would add that we seem to have quite a few 'I have a friend' threads of late - not saying I dont believe you, simply wondering out loud how many of these stories would even see the light of day if Thailand hadnt initiated the crackdown. There was a lot of hot air about 'innocent people' being caught up in the crackdown - I have to wonder if there is a difference between innocence and the kind of gross naivety that your friend has displayed.

his overstay was caused by the loss of his money and passport, the crackdown makes no difference to him, it just means he cant come back for a year which he doesnt plan to in any case

So, are you saying he lost his money and passport seven months ago, and it's taken him this long to do something about his overstay? Since he's smart enough to live in Thailand for seven months with no money, he should be clever enough to come up with 20K baht for his overstay fine.

[hughben]

I am curious as to who stole his possessions?

[HerbalEd]

There is a recent thread on here, read it

So nice of you to take the time to be so helpful.

[Rumblecat]

I think this thread would have been better served had the OP refrained from characterizing the needy person he knows as a friend unless he meant it in the "A stranger is just a friend i haven't met yet" Will Rogers kind of mode. Had he characterized the needy person as one he simply knows or as an acquaintance, less focus would probably have been made on the nonexistent friendship and less argument and back biting would have ensued.

I kind of think this thread would have been much better served if there wasn't a gaggle of people determined to try and pick holes in the original post and get anally fixated on the word friend, despite the fact the original poster explained a couple of times it was just a guy he'd known for a few months and was trying to get info for.

Which is something that should be applauded- helping a near stranger- yet you've got ridiculously judgemental posts telling the original poster over and over what a terrible person he is, or that they don't believe the story, or that they need more detail on it before they can come down from the temple on the mountain and dispense their wisdom... and then you've got catweazle, a poster who seems genuinely distressed and upset at the horror of having to read this thread that he practically bursts into virtual tears while hysterically haranguing the original poster like some crazed old lady.

On the plus side the level of detail and info in a bad banker post is fantastic and much appreciated.

[HerbalEd]

ok, theres a lot of clueless people here, let me eli5, get it? if you hand your self in to immigration or are caught you will be given a sentence at 200b a day, probably 10 or 20 days, I dont know and nobody else here does either it seems. You can either pay the fine and go straight to IDC or do the sentence and then go to IDC. So the fine is 2000 or 4000 b or maybe more or less. Clarification is the reason for this thread. Once you are in IDC you can leave as soon as you have a ticket. So if you have a ticket you pay 2000 or 4000b and can then leave. I realize this isnt the option most of you posters would take and thats understandable but I didnt ask your opinion on it nor do I care. Want I want to know is what the fine is so the guy I am helping out who has decided to take this option can be prepared and pay it.

if you dont know the answer maybe you can find another thread to troll on

Coming to tv.com for "clarification"? 5555 Actually there are a few here who do know what they're talking about ... the rest don't and some have nothing better to do than to harangue and make themselves feel superior. Badbanker obviously speaks with authority and lots of real-life experience, so I'd use his posts as guidance.

Edited August 13, 2014 by HerbalEd

[BestBitterPhuket]

These overstayers are able to live well in Thailand, but somehow they never have the money to pay fines or tickets home.

[MrWorldwide]

I am curious as to who stole his possessions?

I think most here can join the dots on that, but does it really matter if it was male or female, Thai or foreigner ? Not hard for the unwary to find themselves penniless in Thailand, but it would seem that the OP's friend fell victim to a especially callous thief who literally took everything. Nasty.

[moto77]

why dont you contact his family for him? he's your friend , right?

I have, thats why I know he can get the ticket out but I dont think they can cover the overstay, and a few days in IDC wont matter, someone can probably cover a 4000b fine but before he goes ahead need to know exactly what he needs

they cant afford $650 for his overstay?

Even with their pocket money and passport stolen, how does a person from a European country end up in Thailand for a holiday but cannot afford $650 to stay out of jail. I realize that Europe has poor people, but most of them don't end up in Thailand on holiday.

(My point, BTW, is that something doesn't add up here.)

Edited August 13, 2014 by moto77

[slygeeza]

These overstayers are able to live well in Thailand, but somehow they never have the money to pay fines or tickets home.

I guess so, if you consider sleeping on a beach or street and relying on random working girls to offer you food living well

[larsjohnsson]

Sorry for asking (I read 1, 2 and 4th pages), why the guy in question didn't reported the missing documents the day it happened? between Immigration and his embassy everything would have been clarified from the start.

because the guy is either

A - Stupid

B - A Liar

C - Thinks he's a smartass

D - A mixture of all three above

I simply find it hard to believe that anyone can get themselves into such a situation after simply losing their passport, there are many options that could have been employed probably nearly a year ago or more likely longer if this guy actually fessed up about what he's been doing for a much longer period, I'd like to know how long he's been in Thailand and based on that most likely deserves all he gets

My guess would be he exhausted the friends and family loan option a long time ago

he didnt just lose his passport, he lost all IDs, contacts, money etc. whats he to do. walk up to strangers and get called a stupid lying smartass? but thanks for the useful information

What did he do for over 7 months not having any money? Or anything else. This story smells and I don't belive it. You make things up all the time when new questions arrive

[Badbanker]

Sadly a combination of inexpensive lubricants, language/culture and more than a bit of stupidity, cause many people to get disoriented and hopelessly lost!

It is our duty to advise them and point them in the right direction and hope it all works out for them!

The record I know of at Immigration Soi Suan Plu, is one Swedish man who had an alcohol abuse problem that over stayed his visa by 5-6 months every winter in Thailand for the past 10 years.

So that is the record, 10 times! Sadly he passed away on the street in Stockholm this last winter and we won't be seeing him sleeping under the Nana BTS anymore.

Immigration are very kind even in situations like this.

Trouble was too many people have taken advantage of the lax overstay laws and now they are no longer lax so watch out!

PS Different embassies have different policies about supporting you with money or return tickets,