No degree needed for workpermit in language schools?

[puffin1981]

Hey everyone

It has been mentioned here on Thai Visa the last couple of days that the Thai law does not require a teacher to have a degree to get a work permit if they teach at private schools, non formal schools, language schools, universities (<deleted>?) ven though general practice seems to be the complete opposite of this. I thought it might be a good idea to start a new thread to collect info about this.

I asked a friend of mine who runs a big private language school in Bangkok, and he told me that for the past 14 years authorities have always insisted on a degree to give out work permits.

Does anyone have an idea what they might be doing wrong? Is there a special department they need to contact?

Could someone quote/copy in the actual law, people could refer to when being rejected?

Is there a (capable) contact person someone knows at the authorities, who can give reliable information?

[bigt116]

Which 'authorities' ? There are so many in Thailand. But surely as a student or tourist.............as your visa history suggests, this would be of no concern of yours ? Or are you maybe working illegally and looking to get legal ?

[Deacon Bell]

Thai Visa should contact the Dept. of Labour and get confirmation. And ask that all labour offices and officers are made aware of the requirements, as Thai people are being robbed of education due to qualified people (according to the labour law) being refused permits and the right to spend their days educating Thais.

[paz]

It has been mentioned here on Thai Visa the last couple of days that the Thai law does not require a teacher to have a degree to get a work permit if they teach at private schools, non formal schools, language schools, universities (<deleted>?) ven though general practice seems to be the complete opposite of this. I thought it might be a good idea to start a new thread to collect info about this.

I asked a friend of mine who runs a big private language school in Bangkok, and he told me that for the past 14 years authorities have always insisted on a degree to give out work permits.

Does anyone have an idea what they might be doing wrong? Is there a special department they need to contact?

Could someone quote/copy in the actual law, people could refer to when being rejected?

Thread below has answer and legal link

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/752324-how-do-some-schools-get-work-permits-for-those-without-a-college-degree-but-with-a-tefl/

[MaprangHolmes]

Nearly all private schools would require you to have a degree to get you a work permit and teacher license wavier to Teach in there school. However one of the larger chains of private schools are able to get work permits for staff without a degree for example they got a work permit for a person with nothing more than a city and guilds certificate. So yes it is possible to get a work permit and teacher license waver without having a degree.

[Mario2008]

Nearly all private schools would require you to have a degree to get you a work permit and teacher license wavier to Teach in there school. However one of the larger chains of private schools are able to get work permits for staff without a degree for example they got a work permit for a person with nothing more than a city and guilds certificate. So yes it is possible to get a work permit and teacher license waver without having a degree.

This thread is about language schools, not private schools. For a language school there is no requirement for a teaching license or even a waiver.

[Hawkman]

From personal experience and others I know, applications for a work permit at a language school are rejected without a degree. You will get the 90 day non b, but not the work permit.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[jackoholly]

I believe it's because your job description states you are an 'English Consultant' not a teacher. Am I wrong?

[enuff said]

.

So many conflicting reports.

I have heard of large, private elem. and secondary schools coming up with "creative" job descriptions, (English co-ordinator - Translation Proofreader - Foreign Teacher co-ordinator, etc.) and getting people with no degrees work permits. They are actually teaching, of course.

'nuff said

~

[jackoholly]

Yeah, and the WP would have to state the job description of teaching too right??

[MaprangHolmes]

Nearly all private schools would require you to have a degree to get you a work permit and teacher license wavier to Teach in there school. However one of the larger chains of private schools are able to get work permits for staff without a degree for example they got a work permit for a person with nothing more than a city and guilds certificate. So yes it is possible to get a work permit and teacher license waver without having a degree.

This thread is about language schools, not private schools. For a language school there is no requirement for a teaching license or even a waiver.

The title may say about Language schools but the content of the post, also makes reference to private schools as to which I was referring too.

[Mario2008]

A private school requires a teaching license or a waiver thereof. The Teachers Council for some time now does not issue a waiver without a degree, but did so in the past. Even if one does get a waiver, immigration will under the new rules not give an extension of stay.

The only way one can avoid this situation is by being employed as "educational personnel" such as a teaching assistant.

[Deacon Bell]

Nearly all private schools would require you to have a degree to get you a work permit and teacher license wavier to Teach in there school. However one of the larger chains of private schools are able to get work permits for staff without a degree for example they got a work permit for a person with nothing more than a city and guilds certificate. So yes it is possible to get a work permit and teacher license waver without having a degree.

This thread is about language schools, not private schools. For a language school there is no requirement for a teaching license or even a waiver.

Dept. of Labor Officers demand them.

No have.

No Work Permit.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Deacon Bell

[Mario2008]

The teachers law doesn't required it, nor do the immigration rules. But labour can make their own appreciation if one gets a WP or not. Without a degree it will be easier to say that others are more qualified and to deny the WP.

But I am not convinced all labor offices require a degree for a WP for teaching at language schools. I believe it is one of the reason some people are "stuck" with language schools.

[The Man Who Sold the World]

Nothing is etched in stone;

Necessity is the mother of invention in that, if the school desires to hire you, and you demand to remain legal, a way can or will be found.

The question is will the schools desire to hire you outweigh the "hoops they will have to jump through" to secure the proper documents.

[MaprangHolmes]

A private school requires a teaching license or a waiver thereof. The Teachers Council for some time now does not issue a waiver without a degree, but did so in the past. Even if one does get a waiver, immigration will under the new rules not give an extension of stay.

The only way one can avoid this situation is by being employed as "educational personnel" such as a teaching assistant.

Certainly 2 or 3 years ago you could get a waiver without having a degree if you worked for the right school as for extensions I can not answer about as I was always on a non O visa based on marriage that way if you lose you job you wont have to worry about your visa.

[Issangeorge]

A private school requires a teaching license or a waiver thereof. The Teachers Council for some time now does not issue a waiver without a degree, but did so in the past. Even if one does get a waiver, immigration will under the new rules not give an extension of stay.

The only way one can avoid this situation is by being employed as "educational personnel" such as a teaching assistant.

Mario, have been away from teaching for a couple of years now, I have a degree but not in teaching, are you saying that even with a waver, immigration won't give me an extension of stay. Thailand will have a lot of English classes without native Teachers.

[Dogmatix]

It is correct that Thai law doesn't specify that a degree is required for foreign teachers and until 2006 it was generally pretty easy to get a work permit without a degree or with a fake one from Khaosan Road. The John Mark Karr case in 2006 changed all of that when he (falsely confessed to the murder of child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsay that had been perpetrated in Colorado 10 years earlier. Since Karr had been working as an unqualified English school at hi-so Bangkok private girls schools, Bangkok Christian and St Joseph's, the establishment panicked that the laxness in enforcing work permit laws for English teachers meant that their children were being taught by foreign sex offenders. Since then it became virtually impossible for foreign teachers to get a work permit without a genuine degree.

Not much to ask that a teacher has at least a basic education of his own.

[casualbiker]

It is correct that Thai law doesn't specify that a degree is required for foreign teachers and until 2006 it was generally pretty easy to get a work permit without a degree or with a fake one from Khaosan Road. The John Mark Karr case in 2006 changed all of that when he (falsely confessed to the murder of child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsay that had been perpetrated in Colorado 10 years earlier. Since Karr had been working as an unqualified English school at hi-so Bangkok private girls schools, Bangkok Christian and St Joseph's, the establishment panicked that the laxness in enforcing work permit laws for English teachers meant that their children were being taught by foreign sex offenders. Since then it became virtually impossible for foreign teachers to get a work permit without a genuine degree.

Not much to ask that a teacher has at least a basic education of his own.

"

Not much to ask that a teacher has at least a basic education of his own"

A Bachelors degree is basic education now! Really?

Actually as you need a degree to get a TCT waiver and you need the waiver to get an extension of stay and i believe a work permit. In the circumstances you described a teacher would indeed need a degree!

[Dogmatix]

It is correct that Thai law doesn't specify that a degree is required for foreign teachers and until 2006 it was generally pretty easy to get a work permit without a degree or with a fake one from Khaosan Road. The John Mark Karr case in 2006 changed all of that when he (falsely confessed to the murder of child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsay that had been perpetrated in Colorado 10 years earlier. Since Karr had been working as an unqualified English school at hi-so Bangkok private girls schools, Bangkok Christian and St Joseph's, the establishment panicked that the laxness in enforcing work permit laws for English teachers meant that their children were being taught by foreign sex offenders. Since then it became virtually impossible for foreign teachers to get a work permit without a genuine degree.

Not much to ask that a teacher has at least a basic education of his own.

"

Not much to ask that a teacher has at least a basic education of his own"

A Bachelors degree is basic education now! Really?

Actually as you need a degree to get a TCT waiver and you need the waiver to get an extension of stay and i believe a work permit. In the circumstances you described a teacher would indeed need a degree!

These days universities and qualifications in farang countries have been dumbed down to the extent that anyone with any interest in education can make it to university. Govt finance is also available (albeit as repayable loans) so that anyone should be able to graduate if they attend classes and bother to do the course work and exams. Given this is the case, why would anyone who decides to pick teaching for a career not make sure he obtains a degree?

What they specifically don't want are drifters and criminals who have have never had shown any interest in teaching before but decide to go into teaching in Thailand purely as a way of staying in the country long-term.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Dogmatix

[casualbiker]

It is correct that Thai law doesn't specify that a degree is required for foreign teachers and until 2006 it was generally pretty easy to get a work permit without a degree or with a fake one from Khaosan Road. The John Mark Karr case in 2006 changed all of that when he (falsely confessed to the murder of child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsay that had been perpetrated in Colorado 10 years earlier. Since Karr had been working as an unqualified English school at hi-so Bangkok private girls schools, Bangkok Christian and St Joseph's, the establishment panicked that the laxness in enforcing work permit laws for English teachers meant that their children were being taught by foreign sex offenders. Since then it became virtually impossible for foreign teachers to get a work permit without a genuine degree.

Not much to ask that a teacher has at least a basic education of his own.

"

Not much to ask that a teacher has at least a basic education of his own"

A Bachelors degree is basic education now! Really?

Actually as you need a degree to get a TCT waiver and you need the waiver to get an extension of stay and i believe a work permit. In the circumstances you described a teacher would indeed need a degree!

These days universities and qualifications in farang countries have been dumbed down to the extent that anyone with any interest in education can make it to university. Govt finance is also available (albeit as repayable loans) so that anyone should be able to graduate if they attend classes and bother to do the course work and exams. Given this is the case, why would anyone who decides to pick teaching for a career not make sure he obtains a degree?

What they specifically don't want are drifters and criminals who have have never had shown any interest in teaching before but decide to go into teaching in Thailand purely as a way of staying in the country long-term.

Your quote of "these days " says it all really.

Also we are generally talking about TEFL teaching!

Edited August 17, 2014 by casualbiker

[Mario2008]

A private school requires a teaching license or a waiver thereof. The Teachers Council for some time now does not issue a waiver without a degree, but did so in the past. Even if one does get a waiver, immigration will under the new rules not give an extension of stay.

The only way one can avoid this situation is by being employed as "educational personnel" such as a teaching assistant.

Mario, have been away from teaching for a couple of years now, I have a degree but not in teaching, are you saying that even with a waver, immigration won't give me an extension of stay. Thailand will have a lot of English classes without native Teachers.

No, what I say is that you need at least a degree in order to get a waiver from the TCT and extension of stay from immigration as a teacher at a regular school. Both require hat you have a degree.

I didn't mean to say that even with a waiver immigration will deny an extension.

[Hawkman]

It is correct that Thai law doesn't specify that a degree is required for foreign teachers and until 2006 it was generally pretty easy to get a work permit without a degree or with a fake one from Khaosan Road. The John Mark Karr case in 2006 changed all of that when he (falsely confessed to the murder of child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsay that had been perpetrated in Colorado 10 years earlier. Since Karr had been working as an unqualified English school at hi-so Bangkok private girls schools, Bangkok Christian and St Joseph's, the establishment panicked that the laxness in enforcing work permit laws for English teachers meant that their children were being taught by foreign sex offenders. Since then it became virtually impossible for foreign teachers to get a work permit without a genuine degree.

Not much to ask that a teacher has at least a basic education of his own.

A degree, basic education? Not at all. And this is TEFL here, not Medical Science, you don't need to do four years of TEFL study to teach TEFL.

When I was younger, kids had a choice, go to university or start work. Most people I knew were encouraged to go into work and not laze about sponging off mum and dad through Uni. I regret not going to Uni, big time, but at the time I was young and not encouraged to. Have lots of certificates from extra studying I have took over the last 15 - 20 years, but no degree. Many people just cannot afford a degree. It's a different mindset here with regards to the degree compared with the UK and depends on your upbringing and how your parents guide you.

I can understand why they want one to stop the undesirables getting through, but a paedo, or child abuser could be someone with a degree too. I've always maintained the "must have any degree" doesn't make any sense in regards to being able to teach TEFL. A CELTA or good TEFL training, some sort of observation and screening would benefit the whole industry in my opinion and reward Thailand with good TEFL teachers and weed out the bad ones (with degree or non-degree).

[ResandePohm]

My nephew is an English Language teacher. He has at least 10 years experience teaching at all levels in China. He has now expressed a wish to join me in Thailand and teach here. Unfortunately he has no degree but he does have many years experience. I feel it would be remiss of Thailand to refuse him a WP particularly with the shortage of native speakers teaching English and schools being desperate to find teachers. For example one state school here has employed a Filipino waiter simply because he can speak English (all be it Pigeon) and has a WP.

I understand that Thailand wants to weed out all the deadbeats and fake teachers but they should not reject serious qualified and experienced teachers. If they do not have a degree then 10 years of experience with appropriate references should be considered favourably.

[donmuang37]

The correct answer is: It depends!

At the branch where I work, teachers need a BA/BS degree (or higher) in any field plus a TEFL or similar. However, if their degree is in Education, no TEFL is required.

This being Thailand, it should be noted that some "well connected" government schools have gotten work permits for teachers without degrees. Furthermore, in Thailand all laws/rules are usually "flexible" depending upon the situation and the people involved.

Good luck!

[greenchair]

In my opinion the moe does not know it's own laws. Teaching and learning is protected by the constitution Madras 49,50. It is protected by the national education act for informal educators 18(3) ,53 paragraph 3 that says informal educators do not need a TL. also protected by the informal education act; note- that says we have few laws drafted to follow and must be supported by the state. most teachers at opec have never even looked at the informal act. The alien work act Madras 4 says if you come under this category work permit law does not apply. (5) anyone involved with education, sports or development of thai culture.you do not need a degree or wp to work in informal edu. These exemptions do not apply to formal/nonformal educator. Private edu act says. Formal any person or school that provides grades as a stepping stone that can be used as evidence to go to higher learning. non formal same definition. So if you work in a school as a specialist in your field (English ) but do not contribute to the student score to advance to higher grade you are legal. If you work at wall street you can teach the English, but the actual test and grading of a test by law must be done by a qualified teacher. Since those grades are used to go to uni and other forms of higher learning. If you have a marriage visa,no problem ,work and spread the Eng word. or the school can give you a letter to apply for wp as an informal educator and bypass the TL/degree.

It's not the wp office that need the degree, it's the moe for formal /non formal teaching.

I just don't understand why the constitution and informal act have been ignored for so many years. Nobody can be bothered to read them. moe got it's head up its. You don't need a degree to teach what's this? it's a book

[greenchair]

And we are happy and useful. And the children are happy too. And the adults who come to see us are happy too. otherwise they all would not come.

[looma]

This is not new...If you work for a private Language school,they can employ you as an INSTRUCTOR,not teacher,and you will not need a Degree.;-))

[smotherb]

Nearly all private schools would require you to have a degree to get you a work permit and teacher license wavier to Teach in there school. However one of the larger chains of private schools are able to get work permits for staff without a degree for example they got a work permit for a person with nothing more than a city and guilds certificate. So yes it is possible to get a work permit and teacher license waver without having a degree.

This thread is about language schools, not private schools. For a language school there is no requirement for a teaching license or even a waiver.

The OP said, "It has been mentioned here on Thai Visa the last couple of days that the Thai law does not require a teacher to have a degree to get a work permit if they teach at private schools, non formal schools, language schools, universities,"

Which does speak to private schools and not just language schools; but the question is about work permits and not teaching licenses, is it not?

[Mario2008]

The OP is wrong. There is a distinction between private schools and language schools. Language schools are aways privately owned, but Thailand has many private elementary and secondary schools for these private schools which a teaching license is required, just as for the regular government schools.

If a degree is required by law depends on the nature of the school and goes hand in hand with if a teaching license is required. If a teaching license is required the law demands a degree.