Working Online

[jessc]

Opinions of the intelligence of lawmakers aside, I am not aware of any country that lets foreigners just show up and stay indefinitely on tourist visas. I can appreciate not liking that it is so, but, it is so.

But if your goal is to live cheap in Thailand while earning western money from work not really concerning Thailand...then it might well be worth it to pay a few thousand baht for an hour of an attorney's time and advice. There may well be creative options which would be both legal and beneficial. I personally know of one person who is here on a renewable 1 year multi-entry non-b visa, doesn't do work earning any money in Thailand, but who just virtually manages the family business back home. All legal and proper. So don't assume you can't legally do what you want to do. Just get actual professional advice on how best to do it.

[AYJAYDEE]

  On 8/20/2014 at 6:01 AM, jessc said:

Opinions of the intelligence of lawmakers aside, I am not aware of any country that lets foreigners just show up and stay indefinitely on tourist visas. I can appreciate not liking that it is so, but, it is so.

But if your goal is to live cheap in Thailand while earning western money from work not really concerning Thailand...then it might well be worth it to pay a few thousand baht for an hour of an attorney's time and advice. There may well be creative options which would be both legal and beneficial. I personally know of one person who is here on a renewable 1 year multi-entry non-b visa, doesn't do work earning any money in Thailand, but who just virtually manages the family business back home. All legal and proper. So don't assume you can't legally do what you want to do. Just get actual professional advice on how best to do it.

if the information was out there it would have been posted here ages ago.

[JLCrab]

Personally I have lived in Thailand for 11 years -- 4 years on a multi-entry 1-year B visa and then 7 years extension of stay visa retirement.

[jessc]

Ah yes. Thai Visa is the source and ultimate repository of all knowledge on all topics. Wise. You are right of course. I don't even know why people bother asking questions anymore.

[jessc]

@JLCrab - cool.

[ColdSingha]

  On 8/20/2014 at 5:20 AM, jessc said:

I offered my best understanding. Take it or leave it.

but its not the one our esteemed TV members demanded! therefore it means nothing [/sarc]

thanks anyway i found it useful and mirrored what my best friend had been told by a thai lawyer when he enquired (and was subsequently laughed out of the office) about legitimizing his foreign business when he didnt need a long term visa... "you wanna do what? and pay taxes here? hahahahahahaha no need no need"

[JLCrab]

  On 8/20/2014 at 6:09 AM, jessc said:

@JLCrab - cool.

Thanks -- there is lots of useful information on here. One just needs to develop a thick skin that someone's useful information is another person's nonsense and why do you even bother posting that stuff.

[mataleo]

  On 8/19/2014 at 12:19 PM, JLCrab said:

  On 8/19/2014 at 12:15 PM, mataleo said:

  On 8/19/2014 at 11:40 AM, larsjohnsson said:

  On 8/19/2014 at 11:32 AM, mataleo said:

  On 8/19/2014 at 10:55 AM, JLCrab said:

From above regarding working online: In reality its almost impossible to get caught and proved.

To which I said they would not have to prove anything noted in the 30 days to leave the Kingdom above.

Then the discussion turns to Work Permit violations involving fines, paying bribes, and court cases for which I presume there is substantial proof else the prosecutors wouldn't bother taking it or threatening to take it to court. So maybe I should presume the gent has switched from discussing working on line to other more tangible activities?

Hoewer in reality it dosent work like that.

When u get arrested leaving country is not even mentioned. Forst thing what they think is...... moooneyyyy

So how many times have you got arrested and they only thought about money ???

None. But i know russians who did.

Russians who were working online?

No sorry i wasnt clear.

They were cought second time in travel agency booth.

Cost owner 200k

Negotiation till 2am

They wanted 500k

[nicolas18]

  On 8/20/2014 at 2:43 AM, Delphis said:

Okay,

Does anyone whatsoever on this thread have any specific, non-anecdotal evidence, of pointers to actual case documentation kind, of any instances in Thailand where someone was a) fined, b ) imprisoned, or c) deported for being discovered to be undertaking online activities that have no economic flow through Thailand, except as tapped by that private individual through an ATM or terminal bank account?

I'm guessing no, but I might be wrong, so I am all ears.

If however the answer is no, then we are talking about something that has a zero prosecution rate, and that can only be the case if it is effectively a non-subject for the Thai authorities.

No, never heard about anyone getting arrested or fined because they were working online (as long as those activities themselves are not illegal, e.g. pornography).

On the other hand, I personally know at least five people who got arrested for working in their own shop (they all were eventually released following the payment of a bribe).

[anon676545345]

  On 8/20/2014 at 4:48 AM, jessc said:

I am not an attorney in Thailand, but I was an employment attorney in the U.S. for many years. I have lived in Thailand for four years now. This is my best understanding of the rules:

Scenario 1. You are employed by a foreign company (or are self-employed in a foreign country), and you happen to be performing your work while in Thailand. So long as your work is not engaged in commerce in Thailand, and so long as your activities in Thailand are not the subject of your work in a manner that engages thai commerce, you are not working in Thailand such that you must have a work permit. Your business is registered outside thailand, your taxes are paid outside thailand, your money is earned for work which does not concern Thailand, and no profits are earned from thai customers or customers who elicit your services because you are in Thailand.

Think of it as long holiday telecommuting. It is not illegal to telecommute from Thailand while you are on long holiday from home.

In this case, you can be here on a tourist visa, and as such you cannot live full time in thailand. You also can probably be here on a retirement visa and still virtually perform work back home, so long as the financial source of your income is outside thailand, and paid to an account that is outside Thailand. The retirement visa would be more of a "don't ask, don't tell" gray area.

Scenario 2: You work for a company that does business in Thailand, and your work for that business involves Thai commerce, and you perform your work in Thailand. In this case, you need your company to sponsor you for a work permit in Thailand.

Scenario 3: You start a business in or move an existing businesses' operations to Thailand. You do not have a business entity registered in another country, you do not pay corporate taxes in another country, and you perform all work for which you earn money in Thailand. In this case, you need to set up a Thai company, have a minimum of 4 thai employees, and obtain a work permit --- even if your customers are outside of Thailand.

Depending on how you arrange your affairs, self publishing via Amazon could arguably fit into any of these three scenarios. If you book is about Canadian fall flowers, and all you do in Thailand is sit beachside to do online research, writing and editing, then you are probably in Scenario 1. On the other hand, if you are here writing travel guides about Patong nightlife and self publishing them on Amazon, that is likely Scenario 3. If you are employed by Amazon to write books that in some way connect to Thailand or are sold to customers in Thailand, then that's likely scenario 2.

In short - the answer most likely depends on what you actually plan to do, and how you plan to do it. Best course would be to consult a Thai attorney to get expert advice.

That's probably the clearest and best informed answer I've seen on this often raised subject, working on line covers such a wide array of activities and circumstances the only way to get a clear answer would be to get advice from a Thai attorney.

There is probably a good reason that this topic keeps getting raised and that's because every time it pops up JL and Co jump on it and it descends into completely uninformative irrelevant prattle, these guys are "experts" on everything from why the Thai government doesn't do things, to the detrimental effects that someone writing an e-book will have on the Thai governments stated objectives on crab fishing.

[Fab5BKK]

On line business can be very successful.
If you're good at what you do, why not setting up a company in Thailand, under BOI scheme for example and, therefore, being fully legal?
Just my 2 cents...

[ColdSingha]

  On 8/20/2014 at 7:49 AM, Chartist said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 4:48 AM, jessc said:

I am not an attorney in Thailand, but I was an employment attorney in the U.S. for many years. I have lived in Thailand for four years now. This is my best understanding of the rules:

Scenario 1. You are employed by a foreign company (or are self-employed in a foreign country), and you happen to be performing your work while in Thailand. So long as your work is not engaged in commerce in Thailand, and so long as your activities in Thailand are not the subject of your work in a manner that engages thai commerce, you are not working in Thailand such that you must have a work permit. Your business is registered outside thailand, your taxes are paid outside thailand, your money is earned for work which does not concern Thailand, and no profits are earned from thai customers or customers who elicit your services because you are in Thailand.

Think of it as long holiday telecommuting. It is not illegal to telecommute from Thailand while you are on long holiday from home.

In this case, you can be here on a tourist visa, and as such you cannot live full time in thailand. You also can probably be here on a retirement visa and still virtually perform work back home, so long as the financial source of your income is outside thailand, and paid to an account that is outside Thailand. The retirement visa would be more of a "don't ask, don't tell" gray area.

Scenario 2: You work for a company that does business in Thailand, and your work for that business involves Thai commerce, and you perform your work in Thailand. In this case, you need your company to sponsor you for a work permit in Thailand.

Scenario 3: You start a business in or move an existing businesses' operations to Thailand. You do not have a business entity registered in another country, you do not pay corporate taxes in another country, and you perform all work for which you earn money in Thailand. In this case, you need to set up a Thai company, have a minimum of 4 thai employees, and obtain a work permit --- even if your customers are outside of Thailand.

Depending on how you arrange your affairs, self publishing via Amazon could arguably fit into any of these three scenarios. If you book is about Canadian fall flowers, and all you do in Thailand is sit beachside to do online research, writing and editing, then you are probably in Scenario 1. On the other hand, if you are here writing travel guides about Patong nightlife and self publishing them on Amazon, that is likely Scenario 3. If you are employed by Amazon to write books that in some way connect to Thailand or are sold to customers in Thailand, then that's likely scenario 2.

In short - the answer most likely depends on what you actually plan to do, and how you plan to do it. Best course would be to consult a Thai attorney to get expert advice.

That's probably the clearest and best informed answer I've seen on this often raised subject, working on line covers such a wide array of activities and circumstances the only way to get a clear answer would be to get advice from a Thai attorney.

There is probably a good reason that this topic keeps getting raised and that's because every time it pops up JL and Co jump on it and it descends into completely uninformative irrelevant prattle, these guys are "experts" on everything from why the Thai government doesn't do things, to the detrimental effects that someone writing an e-book will have on the Thai governments stated objectives on crab fishing.

+1

[LivinLOS]

  On 8/20/2014 at 1:35 AM, Delphis said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 1:11 AM, LivinLOS said:

  On 8/19/2014 at 2:37 PM, hugolars said:

Guys, I don't buy that "working remotely" equals "working in Thailand" for several reasons.

In my opinion, unless some Thai minister say otherwise, is that "working in Thailand" is exactly what it say it is.

Selling services in Thailand, then you need a company.

Jesus how many times..

  Quote

Do I need a ‘business visa’ to work online?

Is earning money through online advertising, website affiliate marketing or operating a business that has only an online presence whilst staying in Thailand considered working? Would that person be required to have a “business visa”?

Ting Tong Farang, Phuket Town Thursday, November 25, 2010 3:56:43 PM “Any foreigners working or starting a business in Thailand, online or off, need to first get a proper visa.

They can apply for a Non-Immigrant B visa at a Royal Thai Embassy in their home country.

Once they get it they can come to Thailand and apply for a work permit with the Department of Employment.

If we find out that a foreigner is doing business online without a work permit, we will arrest them and take legal action through the court.” Thursday, November 25, 2010 3:56:43 PM Pol Col Panuwat Ruamrak, Superintendent of Phuket Immigration

“Doing business online is considered a type of work, so foreigners are required to have a work permit to do so.

The first thing to do is get the proper business visa. Foreigners with any other type of visa generally cannot apply for a work permit.

An exception to that rule is made for foreigners legally married to Thai citizens.

For more information on the visas and documents required to apply for a work permit, we advise foreigners to contact us or the Department of Employment in the area they live.

We need detailed information from the foreigner before advising on further action.

Please call Phuket Department of Employment at 076-219660-1 ext 13 for further information.” Thursday, November 25, 2010 3:56:43 PM Somkiat Baiadul, an officer at the work permit division of the Phuket Department of Employment - See more at: http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1175#sthash.Naz16bF0.dpuf

I suspect that this question is asked with respect to onshore economic enterprises. The questioner in this piece does not specify, Of course doing an online business in the Thai economic environment needs a work permit.

“Doing business online is considered a type of work, so foreigners are required to have a work permit to do so."

I dont see that as being open to any interpretation.

[LivinLOS]

  On 8/20/2014 at 4:48 AM, jessc said:

I am not an attorney in Thailand, but I was an employment attorney in the U.S. for many years. I have lived in Thailand for four years now. This is my best understanding of the rules:

Think of it as long holiday telecommuting. It is not illegal to telecommute from Thailand while you are on long holiday from home.

Yes it is !!

Perhaps people dont often get caught.. but it clearly is !!

[LivinLOS]

  On 8/20/2014 at 7:49 AM, Chartist said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 4:48 AM, jessc said:

I am not an attorney in Thailand, but I was an employment attorney in the U.S. for many years. I have lived in Thailand for four years now. This is my best understanding of the rules:

Scenario 1. You are employed by a foreign company (or are self-employed in a foreign country), and you happen to be performing your work while in Thailand. So long as your work is not engaged in commerce in Thailand, and so long as your activities in Thailand are not the subject of your work in a manner that engages thai commerce, you are not working in Thailand such that you must have a work permit. Your business is registered outside thailand, your taxes are paid outside thailand, your money is earned for work which does not concern Thailand, and no profits are earned from thai customers or customers who elicit your services because you are in Thailand.

Think of it as long holiday telecommuting. It is not illegal to telecommute from Thailand while you are on long holiday from home.

In this case, you can be here on a tourist visa, and as such you cannot live full time in thailand. You also can probably be here on a retirement visa and still virtually perform work back home, so long as the financial source of your income is outside thailand, and paid to an account that is outside Thailand. The retirement visa would be more of a "don't ask, don't tell" gray area.

Scenario 2: You work for a company that does business in Thailand, and your work for that business involves Thai commerce, and you perform your work in Thailand. In this case, you need your company to sponsor you for a work permit in Thailand.

Scenario 3: You start a business in or move an existing businesses' operations to Thailand. You do not have a business entity registered in another country, you do not pay corporate taxes in another country, and you perform all work for which you earn money in Thailand. In this case, you need to set up a Thai company, have a minimum of 4 thai employees, and obtain a work permit --- even if your customers are outside of Thailand.

Depending on how you arrange your affairs, self publishing via Amazon could arguably fit into any of these three scenarios. If you book is about Canadian fall flowers, and all you do in Thailand is sit beachside to do online research, writing and editing, then you are probably in Scenario 1. On the other hand, if you are here writing travel guides about Patong nightlife and self publishing them on Amazon, that is likely Scenario 3. If you are employed by Amazon to write books that in some way connect to Thailand or are sold to customers in Thailand, then that's likely scenario 2.

In short - the answer most likely depends on what you actually plan to do, and how you plan to do it. Best course would be to consult a Thai attorney to get expert advice.

That's probably the clearest and best informed answer I've seen on this often raised subject, working on line covers such a wide array of activities and circumstances the only way to get a clear answer would be to get advice from a Thai attorney.

There is probably a good reason that this topic keeps getting raised and that's because every time it pops up JL and Co jump on it and it descends into completely uninformative irrelevant prattle, these guys are "experts" on everything from why the Thai government doesn't do things, to the detrimental effects that someone writing an e-book will have on the Thai governments stated objectives on crab fishing.

You may think its the best, because its what you want to hear.. However the superintendant of Phuket immigration was 100% clear.. As was the officer at the dept of employment.

The question was for online activity not in any way connected to Thailand.. Both answered you need a non imm visa and associated work permit..

This isnt grey or out to debate.. You can choose to break the law, but they have stated clearly that the law applies.

[ColdSingha]

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:06 AM, LivinLOS said:

  Quote

Do I need a ‘business visa’ to work online?

Is earning money through online advertising, website affiliate marketing or operating a business that has only an online presence whilst staying in Thailand considered working? Would that person be required to have a “business visa”?

Ting Tong Farang, Phuket Town Thursday, November 25, 2010 3:56:43 PM “Any foreigners working or starting a business in Thailand, online or off, need to first get a proper visa.

They can apply for a Non-Immigrant B visa at a Royal Thai Embassy in their home country.

Once they get it they can come to Thailand and apply for a work permit with the Department of Employment.

If we find out that a foreigner is doing business online without a work permit, we will arrest them and take legal action through the court.” Thursday, November 25, 2010 3:56:43 PM Pol Col Panuwat Ruamrak, Superintendent of Phuket Immigration

“Doing business online is considered a type of work, so foreigners are required to have a work permit to do so.

The first thing to do is get the proper business visa. Foreigners with any other type of visa generally cannot apply for a work permit.

An exception to that rule is made for foreigners legally married to Thai citizens.

For more information on the visas and documents required to apply for a work permit, we advise foreigners to contact us or the Department of Employment in the area they live.

We need detailed information from the foreigner before advising on further action.

Please call Phuket Department of Employment at 076-219660-1 ext 13 for further information.” Thursday, November 25, 2010 3:56:43 PM Somkiat Baiadul, an officer at the work permit division of the Phuket Department of Employment - See more at: http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1175#sthash.Naz16bF0.dpuf

I dont see that as being open to any interpretation.

“Any foreigners working or starting a business in Thailand, online or off, need to first get a proper visa."

what if business is not registered in thailand?

what if business's business is not conducted in thailand?

what if alien is not "working" it but merely maintaining/owning?

I see this as being open to interpretation.

[jessc]

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:08 AM, LivinLOS said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 4:48 AM, jessc said:

I am not an attorney in Thailand, but I was an employment attorney in the U.S. for many years. I have lived in Thailand for four years now. This is my best understanding of the rules:

Think of it as long holiday telecommuting. It is not illegal to telecommute from Thailand while you are on long holiday from home.

Yes it is !!

Perhaps people dont often get caught.. but it clearly is !!

So, if I come on holiday in Thailand for 3 or 6 months, stay at a hotel, do some sightseeing, lay on the beach...and during that time I also work on that big report I need to turn in to the bosses back home, check and respond to email, and maybe make some calls on spite of the time difference...that is working in Thailand and I need a work permit?

No. That is silly. Phrases like "working in Thailand" when used in relation to the law have specific legal meanings. It is not always (or even usually) the common usage meaning.

[slipperx]

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:13 AM, LivinLOS said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 7:49 AM, Chartist said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 4:48 AM, jessc said:

I am not an attorney in Thailand, but I was an employment attorney in the U.S. for many years. I have lived in Thailand for four years now. This is my best understanding of the rules:

Scenario 1. You are employed by a foreign company (or are self-employed in a foreign country), and you happen to be performing your work while in Thailand. So long as your work is not engaged in commerce in Thailand, and so long as your activities in Thailand are not the subject of your work in a manner that engages thai commerce, you are not working in Thailand such that you must have a work permit. Your business is registered outside thailand, your taxes are paid outside thailand, your money is earned for work which does not concern Thailand, and no profits are earned from thai customers or customers who elicit your services because you are in Thailand.

Think of it as long holiday telecommuting. It is not illegal to telecommute from Thailand while you are on long holiday from home.

In this case, you can be here on a tourist visa, and as such you cannot live full time in thailand. You also can probably be here on a retirement visa and still virtually perform work back home, so long as the financial source of your income is outside thailand, and paid to an account that is outside Thailand. The retirement visa would be more of a "don't ask, don't tell" gray area.

Scenario 2: You work for a company that does business in Thailand, and your work for that business involves Thai commerce, and you perform your work in Thailand. In this case, you need your company to sponsor you for a work permit in Thailand.

Scenario 3: You start a business in or move an existing businesses' operations to Thailand. You do not have a business entity registered in another country, you do not pay corporate taxes in another country, and you perform all work for which you earn money in Thailand. In this case, you need to set up a Thai company, have a minimum of 4 thai employees, and obtain a work permit --- even if your customers are outside of Thailand.

Depending on how you arrange your affairs, self publishing via Amazon could arguably fit into any of these three scenarios. If you book is about Canadian fall flowers, and all you do in Thailand is sit beachside to do online research, writing and editing, then you are probably in Scenario 1. On the other hand, if you are here writing travel guides about Patong nightlife and self publishing them on Amazon, that is likely Scenario 3. If you are employed by Amazon to write books that in some way connect to Thailand or are sold to customers in Thailand, then that's likely scenario 2.

In short - the answer most likely depends on what you actually plan to do, and how you plan to do it. Best course would be to consult a Thai attorney to get expert advice.

That's probably the clearest and best informed answer I've seen on this often raised subject, working on line covers such a wide array of activities and circumstances the only way to get a clear answer would be to get advice from a Thai attorney.

There is probably a good reason that this topic keeps getting raised and that's because every time it pops up JL and Co jump on it and it descends into completely uninformative irrelevant prattle, these guys are "experts" on everything from why the Thai government doesn't do things, to the detrimental effects that someone writing an e-book will have on the Thai governments stated objectives on crab fishing.

You may think its the best, because its what you want to hear.. However the superintendant of Phuket immigration was 100% clear.. As was the officer at the dept of employment.

The question was for online activity not in any way connected to Thailand.. Both answered you need a non imm visa and associated work permit..

This isnt grey or out to debate.. You can choose to break the law, but they have stated clearly that the law applies.

So you are saying if you decide to sell some stock in the US via an internet broker in the UK then you need a work permit? If you do it daily does it make a difference? How extract ly would you even get a work permit to do that?

[ColdSingha]

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:13 AM, LivinLOS said:

You may think its the best, because its what you want to hear.. However the superintendant of Phuket immigration was 100% clear.. As was the officer at the dept of employment.

The question was for online activity not in any way connected to Thailand.. Both answered you need a non imm visa and associated work permit..

This isnt grey or out to debate.. You can choose to break the law, but they have stated clearly that the law applies.

and you too may state the same as that is what you wish to portray.. but it was never specified whether business was inside or outside thailand:

Is earning money through online advertising, website affiliate marketing or operating a business that has only an online presence whilst staying in Thailand considered working? Would that person be required to have a “business visa”?

[DrTuner]

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:00 AM, Fab5BKK said:

If you're good at what you do, why not setting up a company in Thailand, under BOI scheme for example and, therefore, being fully legal?

There was a company advertising here, Siam Startup, that offered help with BOI setup. Starting from 250k baht just to get it running and they mention most lawyers take around 500k. And you get nothing but the BOI status for that bundle of cash. Also looks a bit of PITA to go through.

[jessc]

“Doing business online is considered a type of work, so foreigners are required to have a work permit to do so.

...

We need detailed information from the foreigner before advising on further action."

They need detailed information because "doing business online" has a particular legal meaning in the context of immigration and work permits. If I make an online purchase I am "doing business online" but that's not what it means. I don't need a work permit to be on the internet. But I do need a work permit and proper visa to run my Web based advertising company from Thailand. It's complicated, and varies depending on the facts of each case. Which is why immigration asks for detailed information.

[Fab5BKK]

First, you get nothing without efforts and/or money.

Setting up and managing a company does require some work and skills. C'est la vie!

On a side note, do you think you need this kind of company to "help" you? Just asking...

[DrTuner]

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:39 AM, Fab5BKK said:

Setting up and managing a company does require some work and skills.

I agree. Like selecting a jurisdiction where the setup can be made in 24 hours with pocket money. Apart from the desire to reside in Thailand personally, I fail to see why any entrepreneur would incorporate head offices here, when there are far better alternatives in Asia (Hong Kong, Singapore f.ex.).

[Fab5BKK]

BTW guys could you share with me/us the company names where you get 3 (or even better 6) months of holidays?

I just have 25 working days of holiday a year (and I can't take them in 1 shot) :-(

PS: and having a boss ready to wait 6 months for a report... love it!

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:16 AM, jessc said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:08 AM, LivinLOS said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 4:48 AM, jessc said:

I am not an attorney in Thailand, but I was an employment attorney in the U.S. for many years. I have lived in Thailand for four years now. This is my best understanding of the rules:


Think of it as long holiday telecommuting. It is not illegal to telecommute from Thailand while you are on long holiday from home.

Yes it is !!

Perhaps people dont often get caught.. but it clearly is !!

So, if I come on holiday in Thailand for 3 or 6 months, stay at a hotel, do some sightseeing, lay on the beach...and during that time I also work on that big report I need to turn in to the bosses back home, check and respond to email, and maybe make some calls on spite of the time difference...that is working in Thailand and I need a work permit?

No. That is silly. Phrases like "working in Thailand" when used in relation to the law have specific legal meanings. It is not always (or even usually) the common usage meaning.

[nicolas18]

From an interview with someone at the Dept of Labour in Chiang Mai:

  Quote

He added that there is no “freelance” work permit, that one must be sponsored by a company. However, when asked about specialists offering advice for overseas clients in overseas markets, he felt that so long as they did not offer that advice to Thais or foreigners in Thailand that would be acceptable.

Once again, if your online activities do not involve Thailand in any way (no clients residing in Thailand, no business with any Thai company), you're fine.

[anon676545345]

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:13 AM, LivinLOS said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 7:49 AM, Chartist said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 4:48 AM, jessc said:

I am not an attorney in Thailand, but I was an employment attorney in the U.S. for many years. I have lived in Thailand for four years now. This is my best understanding of the rules:

Scenario 1. You are employed by a foreign company (or are self-employed in a foreign country), and you happen to be performing your work while in Thailand. So long as your work is not engaged in commerce in Thailand, and so long as your activities in Thailand are not the subject of your work in a manner that engages thai commerce, you are not working in Thailand such that you must have a work permit. Your business is registered outside thailand, your taxes are paid outside thailand, your money is earned for work which does not concern Thailand, and no profits are earned from thai customers or customers who elicit your services because you are in Thailand.

Think of it as long holiday telecommuting. It is not illegal to telecommute from Thailand while you are on long holiday from home.

In this case, you can be here on a tourist visa, and as such you cannot live full time in thailand. You also can probably be here on a retirement visa and still virtually perform work back home, so long as the financial source of your income is outside thailand, and paid to an account that is outside Thailand. The retirement visa would be more of a "don't ask, don't tell" gray area.

Scenario 2: You work for a company that does business in Thailand, and your work for that business involves Thai commerce, and you perform your work in Thailand. In this case, you need your company to sponsor you for a work permit in Thailand.

Scenario 3: You start a business in or move an existing businesses' operations to Thailand. You do not have a business entity registered in another country, you do not pay corporate taxes in another country, and you perform all work for which you earn money in Thailand. In this case, you need to set up a Thai company, have a minimum of 4 thai employees, and obtain a work permit --- even if your customers are outside of Thailand.

Depending on how you arrange your affairs, self publishing via Amazon could arguably fit into any of these three scenarios. If you book is about Canadian fall flowers, and all you do in Thailand is sit beachside to do online research, writing and editing, then you are probably in Scenario 1. On the other hand, if you are here writing travel guides about Patong nightlife and self publishing them on Amazon, that is likely Scenario 3. If you are employed by Amazon to write books that in some way connect to Thailand or are sold to customers in Thailand, then that's likely scenario 2.

In short - the answer most likely depends on what you actually plan to do, and how you plan to do it. Best course would be to consult a Thai attorney to get expert advice.

That's probably the clearest and best informed answer I've seen on this often raised subject, working on line covers such a wide array of activities and circumstances the only way to get a clear answer would be to get advice from a Thai attorney.

There is probably a good reason that this topic keeps getting raised and that's because every time it pops up JL and Co jump on it and it descends into completely uninformative irrelevant prattle, these guys are "experts" on everything from why the Thai government doesn't do things, to the detrimental effects that someone writing an e-book will have on the Thai governments stated objectives on crab fishing.

You may think its the best, because its what you want to hear.. However the superintendant of Phuket immigration was 100% clear.. As was the officer at the dept of employment.

The question was for online activity not in any way connected to Thailand.. Both answered you need a non imm visa and associated work permit..

This isnt grey or out to debate.. You can choose to break the law, but they have stated clearly that the law applies.

It's clearly the best response as it's an objective analysis that culminates in the sensible suggestion to contact a Thai attorney to find out the correct avenue pertaining to individual circumstances. This subject has been repeatedly debated on here you've got the regular ThaiVisa "experts" mob waving their pitchforks around who are categorically against people engaging in this activity, it's a strange use of time putting so much energy into debating an issue that has no relevance to their own circumstances.

[Fab5BKK]

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:54 AM, Fab5BKK said:

BTW guys could you share with me/us the company names where you get 3 (or even better 6) months of holidays?

I just have 25 working days of holiday a year (and I can't take them in 1 shot) :-(

PS: and having a boss ready to wait 6 months for a report... love it!

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:16 AM, jessc said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:08 AM, LivinLOS said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 4:48 AM, jessc said:

I am not an attorney in Thailand, but I was an employment attorney in the U.S. for many years. I have lived in Thailand for four years now. This is my best understanding of the rules:

Think of it as long holiday telecommuting. It is not illegal to telecommute from Thailand while you are on long holiday from home.

Yes it is !!

Perhaps people dont often get caught.. but it clearly is !!

So, if I come on holiday in Thailand for 3 or 6 months, stay at a hotel, do some sightseeing, lay on the beach...and during that time I also work on that big report I need to turn in to the bosses back home, check and respond to email, and maybe make some calls on spite of the time difference...that is working in Thailand and I need a work permit?

No. That is silly. Phrases like "working in Thailand" when used in relation to the law have specific legal meanings. It is not always (or even usually) the common usage meaning.

[jessc]

  On 8/20/2014 at 9:08 AM, Fab5BKK said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:54 AM, Fab5BKK said:

BTW guys could you share with me/us the company names where you get 3 (or even better 6) months of holidays?

I just have 25 working days of holiday a year (and I can't take them in 1 shot) :-(

PS: and having a boss ready to wait 6 months for a report... love it!

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:16 AM, jessc said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:08 AM, LivinLOS said:

  On 8/20/2014 at 4:48 AM, jessc said:

I am not an attorney in Thailand, but I was an employment attorney in the U.S. for many years. I have lived in Thailand for four years now. This is my best understanding of the rules:

Think of it as long holiday telecommuting. It is not illegal to telecommute from Thailand while you are on long holiday from home.

Yes it is !!

Perhaps people dont often get caught.. but it clearly is !!

So, if I come on holiday in Thailand for 3 or 6 months, stay at a hotel, do some sightseeing, lay on the beach...and during that time I also work on that big report I need to turn in to the bosses back home, check and respond to email, and maybe make some calls on spite of the time difference...that is working in Thailand and I need a work permit?

No. That is silly. Phrases like "working in Thailand" when used in relation to the law have specific legal meanings. It is not always (or even usually) the common usage meaning.

I only work 6 months a year

[balo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

  On 8/20/2014 at 8:56 AM, nicolas18 said:

From an interview with someone at the Dept of Labour in Chiang Mai:

  Quote

He added that there is no “freelance” work permit, that one must be sponsored by a company. However, when asked about specialists offering advice for overseas clients in overseas markets, he felt that so long as they did not offer that advice to Thais or foreigners in Thailand that would be acceptable.

Once again, if your online activities do not involve Thailand in any way (no clients residing in Thailand, no business with any Thai company), you're fine.

Really ?? Are you sure?

So then I can openly in Thailand send emails to my clients , I can remote control their business , while Im in Thailand.

Now this is great news if its really true.

[DrTuner]

Those who want real answers, may go to the immigration office, open their laptop, invite an officer over and start working. Any volunteers ?