Has declaring income for retirement visas got tax implications?

[Card]

Yes I have a point here but first let me ask this question. Is money in my savings account in another country taxable when I

bring it into Thailand?

i believe the answer to that is that it depends on whether the cash you bring in is Capital or Income. Capital transfers are not taxable, but income transfers are.

You may then ask "how will tax authorities know the difference?" the answer is probably that they will assume it is income until you prove otherwise.

So how do you prove it?

There is a simple device and that is to keep your capital separate from your income by having an account for each one then you can present the tax people with statements showing that you made transfers from the 'Capital' account, not the income account.

If you have a capital account earning interest then that interest is classed as 'income', so to avoid mixing capital and income in the same account you need to have your bank transfer all interest immediatly it is due into the 'Income' account, not the same account as the capital.

Hope this helps. I am not sure what the difference between 'savings' and 'capital' is - you need to ask a tax consultant about that one.

[IAMSOBAD]

Lets stop giving them ideas. ASKED AND ANSWERED.

PLEASSSSSSE

[dinger]

question addressed while I was typing a response thanks

[mrfaroukh]

Never been asked to pay tax, no question about it either. We pay tax in our country that is what is it.

[Card]

Never been asked to pay tax, no question about it either. We pay tax in our country that is what is it.

Never been asked, is not the same as not being liable is it?

Never been asked is not the same as not needing to declare it is it?

[Langsuan Man]

If you have 800,000 THB in the bank for retirement purposes you are liable only for the interest that is paid by a Thai bank during the year that the interest is earned. But since the Thai banks deduct the tax from the interest posted to your account most foreigners don't even know it

So to clarify since this thread has gotten all mucked up. Your are not responsible for paying Thai income tax on the principle when it it is brought into Thailand but are responsible to pay tax on any income made off of that principle in Thailand

[oldthaihand99]

Two posters here say they pay tax in Thailand on their foreign pensions:

"Is pension income subject to Thai income tax?...continued"

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/738836-is-pension-income-subject-to-thai-income-taxcontinued/page-2

One of them told another poster to contact the "Revenue departments head office Bangkok and ask if you are subject to pay tax on your pension income and you will get the answer".

You'll get the interpretation & "answer of the moment" anyway. It's the one that the judge gives upon your case that will ultimately be the only one that matters.

The law seems quite clear. Thai lawyers i've seen agree that under Thai tax law foreign pensions are taxable income for tax residents of Siam.

[sandrew33]

From the summary of the Thailand-Australia Double Tax agreement:

·

"Pensions will generally be taxed only in the country of residence of the recipient (except, in the case of the Thailand agreement, for certain government service pensions, which are to be taxed only in the country which pays the pensions)."

In other words if you are a resident of Thailand, your Australian pension is taxable in Thailand.

[bra]

If you have 800,000 THB in the bank for retirement purposes you are liable only for the interest that is paid by a Thai bank during the year that the interest is earned. But since the Thai banks deduct the tax from the interest posted to your account most foreigners don't even know it

So to clarify since this thread has gotten all mucked up. Your are not responsible for paying Thai income tax on the principle when it it is brought into Thailand but are responsible to pay tax on any income made off of that principle in Thailand

Is it possible to hold the 800,000 (or any amount) in a Thai bank account that does not pay any interest? I have no wish to get involved with taxation in Thailand for relatively small amounts of interest income.

[paz]

If you have 800,000 THB in the bank for retirement purposes you are liable only for the interest that is paid by a Thai bank during the year that the interest is earned. But since the Thai banks deduct the tax from the interest posted to your account most foreigners don't even know it

So to clarify since this thread has gotten all mucked up. Your are not responsible for paying Thai income tax on the principle when it it is brought into Thailand but are responsible to pay tax on any income made off of that principle in Thailand

Is it possible to hold the 800,000 (or any amount) in a Thai bank account that does not pay any interest? I have no wish to get involved with taxation in Thailand for relatively small amounts of interest income.

You are worrying uselessly, first because taxes are already deducted from interest paid, furthermore most foreigners file and get a refund for that.

[chiang mai]

If you have 800,000 THB in the bank for retirement purposes you are liable only for the interest that is paid by a Thai bank during the year that the interest is earned. But since the Thai banks deduct the tax from the interest posted to your account most foreigners don't even know it

So to clarify since this thread has gotten all mucked up. Your are not responsible for paying Thai income tax on the principle when it it is brought into Thailand but are responsible to pay tax on any income made off of that principle in Thailand

Is it possible to hold the 800,000 (or any amount) in a Thai bank account that does not pay any interest? I have no wish to get involved with taxation in Thailand for relatively small amounts of interest income.

That would seem silly, most expats here that I know put the 800k into a fixed term deposit, pay the tax at source and then reclaim the tax at the end of the year, the first 150k of income is tax free and the next 150k is taxable at 5% - to not earn interest would be silly, to not reclaim the tax would be really silly.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

[bra]

If you have 800,000 THB in the bank for retirement purposes you are liable only for the interest that is paid by a Thai bank during the year that the interest is earned. But since the Thai banks deduct the tax from the interest posted to your account most foreigners don't even know it

So to clarify since this thread has gotten all mucked up. Your are not responsible for paying Thai income tax on the principle when it it is brought into Thailand but are responsible to pay tax on any income made off of that principle in Thailand

Is it possible to hold the 800,000 (or any amount) in a Thai bank account that does not pay any interest? I have no wish to get involved with taxation in Thailand for relatively small amounts of interest income.

That would seem silly, most expats here that I know put the 800k into a fixed term deposit, pay the tax at source and then reclaim the tax at the end of the year, the first 150k of income is tax free and the next 150k is taxable at 5% - to not earn interest would be silly, to not reclaim the tax would be really silly.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Well I may not be a silly as I look. Can you or anyone answer my question " Is it possible to hold the 800,000 (or any amount) in a Thai bank account that does not pay interest?" If no then please don't respond. If yes please advise which bank/s.

[paz]

Well I may not be a silly as I look. Can you or anyone answer my question " Is it possible to hold the 800,000 (or any amount) in a Thai bank account that does not pay interest?" If no then please don't respond. If yes please advise which bank/s.

Try "banking in Thailand" forum.

[chiang mai]

If you have 800,000 THB in the bank for retirement purposes you are liable only for the interest that is paid by a Thai bank during the year that the interest is earned. But since the Thai banks deduct the tax from the interest posted to your account most foreigners don't even know it

So to clarify since this thread has gotten all mucked up. Your are not responsible for paying Thai income tax on the principle when it it is brought into Thailand but are responsible to pay tax on any income made off of that principle in Thailand

Is it possible to hold the 800,000 (or any amount) in a Thai bank account that does not pay any interest? I have no wish to get involved with taxation in Thailand for relatively small amounts of interest income.

That would seem silly, most expats here that I know put the 800k into a fixed term deposit, pay the tax at source and then reclaim the tax at the end of the year, the first 150k of income is tax free and the next 150k is taxable at 5% - to not earn interest would be silly, to not reclaim the tax would be really silly.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Well I may not be a silly as I look. Can you or anyone answer my question " Is it possible to hold the 800,000 (or any amount) in a Thai bank account that does not pay interest?" If no then please don't respond. If yes please advise which bank/s.

You could look here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/560837-bank-savings-interest-rates/

[Strangebrew]

Penision and SS are taxable At least US based one but that is US tax Thailand and Us tax treaty rules So no tax in Thailand Us that is another matter Also Us if you have over 10,000 USD in a bank outside US you need to declare it or face a huge fine. And if your reading this now and that fits you Your in a world of Chit now.

[IMA_FARANG]

If you are retired here in Thailand and your only income is a government pension there is no Thai tax on that money.

I do not know the U.K. laws on U.K. taxes on such a pension as I am a U.S. citizen. However in the U.S. we do need to file a tax return on government pensions. Depending on the amount however we may be allowed exemptions on up to 80% of that pension,

Retired here in Bangkok I legally filed a tax return and paid no tax with my legal exemptions as my government pension was my only source of income in 2013.

When you go to the immigration annually to renew your retirement extension/visa that is one of the reasons they want to see your Thai bank account bankbook.

A incoming foreign transfer is coded in the book.

For Bangkok Bank the code for incoming foreign funds transfer is FTT,

The immigration copies you Bankbook entries and looks for a monthly FTT transfer code. Often they will use a yellow marker to outline those transfers on the copy.

If they see a pattern of monthly transfers in your bankbook from a foreign source (FTT codes) they make a note in Thai saying it is o.k, and add that copy to your records.

That is how they check to be sure your income is from an out of country pension source.

[bra]

Well I may not be a silly as I look. Can you or anyone answer my question " Is it possible to hold the 800,000 (or any amount) in a Thai bank account that does not pay interest?" If no then please don't respond. If yes please advise which bank/s.

Try "banking in Thailand" forum.

Thank you for your response, and also to chiang mai for the link to the interest rates forum

[larsjohnsson]

I know a lot of people from my home country Sweden that lives here on extension of stay based on a 65k a month pension. None of those people pay any tax here

[JimHuaHin]

From the summary of the Thailand-Australia Double Tax agreement:

·

"Pensions will generally be taxed only in the country of residence of the recipient (except, in the case of the Thailand agreement, for certain government service pensions, which are to be taxed only in the country which pays the pensions)."

In other words if you are a resident of Thailand, your Australian pension is taxable in Thailand.

Where did you access this document, please?

I have been looking for it on various AU gov sites, but no luck.

From the Thai perspective, and please correct me if I am wrong - if my Australian pension paid in financial year 2014 remains in Australia for the duration of the 2014 financial year, and some of the pension monies are transferred to Thailand after the 2014 financial year, then the monies transferred to Thailand are not taxable, as they enter Thailand not in the same year that they were earned?

[spidermike007]

The one aspect that posters should be aware of, is that the forms you submit at the US Embassy, are definitely shared with various US agencies. So, there is a chance, in my opinion, that by filing these forms, if they do not match what you file in the US, an IRS tax audit could be triggered. If the NSA is using Facebook to mine info on Americans, then surely the IRS is using the embassies worldwide, to mine info on expats, and their tax status. Beware of providing info unwittingly. Those forms are scanned, and shared. This is a certainty.

[ubonjoe]

The one aspect that posters should be aware of, is that the forms you submit at the US Embassy, are definitely shared with various US agencies. So, there is a chance, in my opinion, that by filing these forms, if they do not match what you file in the US, an IRS tax audit could be triggered. If the NSA is using Facebook to mine info on Americans, then surely the IRS is using the embassies worldwide, to mine info on expats, and their tax status. Beware of providing info unwittingly. Those forms are scanned, and shared. This is a certainty.

That is not true. The embassy sends nothing to the IRS.

I don't think they even make a copy of the income affidavit.

[spidermike007]

The one aspect that posters should be aware of, is that the forms you submit at the US Embassy, are definitely shared with various US agencies. So, there is a chance, in my opinion, that by filing these forms, if they do not match what you file in the US, an IRS tax audit could be triggered. If the NSA is using Facebook to mine info on Americans, then surely the IRS is using the embassies worldwide, to mine info on expats, and their tax status. Beware of providing info unwittingly. Those forms are scanned, and shared. This is a certainty.

That is not true. The embassy sends nothing to the IRS.

I don't think they even make a copy of the income affidavit.

False. That is how they used to do it. Not anymore. Everything is now shared. Count on it, and deceive yourself at your own peril.

[Bazle]

I would certainly be very happy to be proved wrong as I could have a big tax bill at the end of the year, and who want's that?

A friend of mine took advice on this from one of the top firms of accountants. He was told exactly what you (Zanarski) have been saying.

[paz]

False. That is how they used to do it. Not anymore. Everything is now shared. Count on it, and deceive yourself at your own peril.

You truly don't know what are you talking about.

[paz]

I would certainly be very happy to be proved wrong as I could have a big tax bill at the end of the year, and who want's that?

A friend of mine took advice on this from one of the top firms of accountants. He was told exactly what you (Zanarski) have been saying.

Guess what, the accountants are the first people that wants to put their hand in your business, to charge their fees.

The notion that an American can receive a "tax bill" because an affidavit signed at the Embassy is ridiculous.

For one, the IRS does not sends "tax bills". They can proceeded to audit previous tax filings, under certain conditions and with certain protections for the taxpayer.

Anyway, no need to digress. This thread started with paranoia, evolved in stupidity, and has now peaked at idiocy.

[Bazle]

I would certainly be very happy to be proved wrong as I could have a big tax bill at the end of the year, and who want's that?

A friend of mine took advice on this from one of the top firms of accountants. He was told exactly what you (Zanarski) have been saying.

Guess what, the accountants are the first people that wants to put their hand in your business, to charge their fees.

The notion that an American can receive a "tax bill" because an affidavit signed at the Embassy is ridiculous.

For one, the IRS does not sends "tax bills". They can proceeded to audit previous tax filings, under certain conditions and with certain protections for the taxpayer.

Anyway, no need to digress. This thread started with paranoia, evolved in stupidity, and has now peaked at idiocy.

Sorry for the confusion - I was talking about Zanarski's understanding of the operation of Thai tax on a UK pension.

[chiang mai]

I have no inside knowledge on the specific issue being discussed but I do have broad fairly current knowledge of the workings of governments, taxation and systems in the US and the UK. My view is that I would be extremely surprised if there is no linkage between the IRS and the State Department in respect of information held in both places and if information was not shared.

[paz]

I have no inside knowledge on the specific issue being discussed but I do have broad fairly current knowledge of the workings of governments, taxation and systems in the US and the UK. My view is that I would be extremely surprised if there is no linkage between the IRS and the State Department in respect of information held in both places and if information was not shared.

The thing is that affidavits signed at the embassy are not financial information for tax purposes. One could state the name of his mother in it and the affidavit would be treated the same way - basically ignored. There is no processing of information after it has been filed.

The only thing financially relevant that an affidavit has for the US Gov.t is the hefty fee charged.

[spidermike007]

The one aspect that posters should be aware of, is that the forms you submit at the US Embassy, are definitely shared with various US agencies. So, there is a chance, in my opinion, that by filing these forms, if they do not match what you file in the US, an IRS tax audit could be triggered. If the NSA is using Facebook to mine info on Americans, then surely the IRS is using the embassies worldwide, to mine info on expats, and their tax status. Beware of providing info unwittingly. Those forms are scanned, and shared. This is a certainty.

That is not true. The embassy sends nothing to the IRS.

I don't think they even make a copy of the income affidavit.

False. That is how they used to do it. Not anymore. Everything is now shared. Count on it, and deceive yourself only if you have nothing to be concerned about.

Please use your common sense. Have you learned nothing from Snowden? Everything is shared. Everything. Why would this be exempt? You are dreaming, if you think that is so. It is a virtual gold mine of expat information.

[paz]

The one aspect that posters should be aware of, is that the forms you submit at the US Embassy, are definitely shared with various US agencies. So, there is a chance, in my opinion, that by filing these forms, if they do not match what you file in the US, an IRS tax audit could be triggered. If the NSA is using Facebook to mine info on Americans, then surely the IRS is using the embassies worldwide, to mine info on expats, and their tax status. Beware of providing info unwittingly. Those forms are scanned, and shared. This is a certainty.

That is not true. The embassy sends nothing to the IRS.

I don't think they even make a copy of the income affidavit.

False. That is how they used to do it. Not anymore. Everything is now shared. Count on it, and deceive yourself only if you have nothing to be concerned about.

Please use your common sense. Have you learned nothing from Snowden? Everything is shared. Everything. Why would this be exempt? You are dreaming, if you think that is so. It is a virtual gold mine of expat information.

You are the one dreaming of a big brother that doesn't exist yet. Sure the US is spying on everyone. At the same time they are not able to share the vital information that they would really need, for jealousy, inefficiency, or even legal limitations. Go figure about the dusty paperwork of people of old people living in a third world country.