Showbags Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Any news on accident yesterday in ky, 4 killed, 1 foreigner ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgs2001uk Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Its all over FB, pretty horrific. You are talking about the Chev arent you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Viewer discretion is advised. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZbShxzwWmI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Wow, Thai reporting and rescue finally gaining some class.. Respectfully covering the body, pixilating victims faces in the vehicle, and no one sitting/smiling pointing at a deceased person, good to see some sense and sensitivity finally being applied, hope it catches on. Tragic accident, sorry for the victims and their families, once again rain slicked road, over-correcting an SUV with poor rain/road tires and a tragic ending result. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showbags Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Thats the one, thanks. Driver was a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 sorry to hear that showbags. just like the other accident involving two trucks, guy over corrected and crossed over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Thats the one, thanks. Driver was a friend. Erm which vehicle and was the driver (your friend) one of the deceased? Maybe there was only 4 people? I don't know so please don't hammer me for seeming to be insensitive.. If it was? Sorry for your loss.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showbags Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Driver with the dashcam. Yes he died unfortunately. Wife in icu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Really sorry to hear that.. Curious was he a member here? I don't understand Thai so don't know if it is mentioned or not in the report? How many people involved between them both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showbags Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 5 altogether I believe, 4 died. From what I have been told, and I know that stretch of road very well, the other car aqua planed across the road because going to fast. Right where that happened is a sweeping bend, double lanes, where the idiots drive like idiots possessed and when raining, there happens to be a lot of water running across the road there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 That's what the video shows, sadly it seems it also shows he himself was doing a pretty good clip too. Regardless, unfortunate happen stance on both sides I'm afraid that ended up in a terrible tragedy of meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showbags Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Pretty good clip?.....I presume you mean speeding? You can tell that can you? I can show you any of my dashcam vids which always look faster than actual for some reason. I can show you several vids of retarded thai drivers on that road...one just metres away from that spot where I tapped the arse of one said retarded driver....not a thai apologist are you by chance?.... but funny how you have to mention that when its obvious the other car lost complete control and the innocent parties...killed again...by a thai driver.Have a nice day XX Edited August 23, 2014 by Rooo flame removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Yes I can.. It begins from when he made his turn, I know your distraught and that's difficult to read but it's obvious to an experienced eye and video cams are less likely to show real speed they always show slower, I know because I have hundreds of hours of racing videos from my own cars. Bottom line, there was time to react and at minimum take avoiding action of some kind, if he couldn't do that, and the video shows that he didn't, then he was driving too fast for his reactions and conditions even if wasn't TOO fast for the posted speed. Again sorry for your loss and I know you want lash out at "idiot Thai drivers" but that's not me and he has to share some responsibility in the crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wprime Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Yes I can.. It begins from when he made his turn, I know your distraught and that's difficult to read but it's obvious to an experienced eye and video cams are less likely to show real speed they always show slower, I know because I have hundreds of hours of racing videos from my own cars. Bottom line, there was time to react and at minimum take avoiding action of some kind, if he couldn't do that, and the video shows that he didn't, then he was driving too fast for his reactions and conditions even if wasn't TOO fast for the posted speed. Again sorry for your loss and I know you want lash out at "idiot Thai drivers" but that's not me and he has to share some responsibility in the crash. There wasn't much he could do. From the point at which the out of control car was visible, slowing would've reduced the impact speed which may have saved the passengers in the other car. Maneuvering left would still have made him in line with the impact and maneuvering right would've put him with the oncoming traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Nonsense, I'm not going to debate this point with people who are just daily drivers there's no point. The very comment you make shows me you've no idea of what you speak so there is no point trying to discuss otherwise but the fact remains there were numerous things that could have been done beginning with proper reading of the road conditions versus his own driving skills and reactions as well anticipating a worse case scenario such as this, given the conditions and considering the other "idiots" on the road as a good defensive driver has to do and one must always have contingencies planned out for every possible scenario one can imagine could happen and be thinking of them ALL the time while they're driving instead of texting, playing with the radio, or any number of other distractions while behind the wheel. Part of what I do professionally is teach daily drivers how to react to instances such as this so I know a thing or two about it. Argue it and remain ignorant or listen and learn something from someone who knows first hand, up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Yes I can.. It begins from when he made his turn, I know your distraught and that's difficult to read but it's obvious to an experienced eye and video cams are less likely to show real speed they always show slower, I know because I have hundreds of hours of racing videos from my own cars. Bottom line, there was time to react and at minimum take avoiding action of some kind, if he couldn't do that, and the video shows that he didn't, then he was driving too fast for his reactions and conditions even if wasn't TOO fast for the posted speed. Again sorry for your loss and I know you want lash out at "idiot Thai drivers" but that's not me and he has to share some responsibility in the crash. Maneuvering left would still have made him in line with the impact and maneuvering right would've put him with the oncoming traffic. Impact is one thing, virtually head on is another, the difference between life and death is often a matter of centimeters or inches.. A minor swerve could have made ALL the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showbags Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Blah blah blah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culicine Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Pretty good clip?.....I presume you mean speeding? You can tell that can you? I can show you any of my dashcam vids which always look faster than actual for some reason. I can show you several vids of retarded thai drivers on that road...one just metres away from that spot where I tapped the arse of one said retarded driver....not a thai apologist are you by chance?.... but funny how you have to mention that when its obvious the other car lost complete control and the innocent parties...killed again...by a thai driver. Have a nice day cok. Earlier on in the video he was passing cars on the left at a high speed. They could have been driving below the speed limit and that exaggerated the difference. It's one of those almost unavoidable accidents we all dread. I'm sorry you lost your friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Bell Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Should have been going slower, and not hogging the overtaking lane. In a wide, twisty, 4 lane road that's wet, the results can be, well, fatal. Poor driving for both parties. RiP. Edited August 23, 2014 by Deacon Bell 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJH77 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 This is a very strange accident as I watch this video, and I tend to go with Warpspeed, there wasn't a great deal of time but a slight bit of right hand wheel would have saved them I think. Defencive driving is mandatory in this country as you know the opposition, that's what I refer to them as, has no idea how to handle a car that gets out of shape so you must be on your guard at all times, there seem to be very little moisture on the road and the driver of the car out of control loosing the rear end has left his boot into it and on gaining traction speared across the centre line, the evasive move is to head for where they came from and hope you make it, I am very sorry for the family involved as they were completely innocent in this terrible accident, but as Warp said driver training may have saved them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Pretty good clip?.....I presume you mean speeding? You can tell that can you? I can show you any of my dashcam vids which always look faster than actual for some reason. I can show you several vids of retarded thai drivers on that road...one just metres away from that spot where I tapped the arse of one said retarded driver....not a thai apologist are you by chance?.... but funny how you have to mention that when its obvious the other car lost complete control and the innocent parties...killed again...by a thai driver. Have a nice day cok. Earlier on in the video he was passing cars on the left at a high speed. They could have been driving below the speed limit and that exaggerated the difference. It's one of those almost unavoidable accidents we all dread. I'm sorry you lost your friend. Yes, this was one of the additional indications I took notice of as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) This is a very strange accident as I watch this video, and I tend to go with Warpspeed, there wasn't a great deal of time but a slight bit of right hand wheel would have saved them I think. Defencive driving is mandatory in this country as you know the opposition, that's what I refer to them as, has no idea how to handle a car that gets out of shape so you must be on your guard at all times, there seem to be very little moisture on the road and the driver of the car out of control loosing the rear end has left his boot into it and on gaining traction speared across the centre line, the evasive move is to head for where they came from and hope you make it, I am very sorry for the family involved as they were completely innocent in this terrible accident, but as Warp said driver training may have saved them Or even left hand as weeds and low vegetation is multitudes better than a high speed vehicle nearly head on. Again I know it's not something one wants to hear in such a case, I'm being as compassionate as I can be, but I'm just speaking the facts and objectively evaluating the crash for other people to consider while driving in hopes that their deaths are not in vain with no intent to be insensitive but if one doesn't learn from other peoples critical mistakes that is ignorance and a waste of these peoples lives. Sorry Showbags if it offends you, just remember I didn't post the OP. I do have to counter the thinking to head where they came from in a head-on incident, as if they manage to correct, then a head on is imminent and if not? A possible head on with another vehicle is also likely, so you should head to the left in this case if driving in a left drive head to the right, always off road where ever possible. Edited August 23, 2014 by WarpSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showbags Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Perhaps you and michael Schumacher may hay steered clear of it....but for aversge joe fat dumb and happy...think not....so smart arse comments are not really required. As for speeding and passing cars, if you notice the first car he passes is a van crawling on the left side, half in the moto bike lane...second one, he was in the fast lane to pass it, again going slow. If you notice the windshield wipers look to be on intermittent, so not raining heavily there and then, maybe earlier, maybe not but it was reported as heavy rain at the time. So as for speeding in poor conditions...not likely, I also happen to see his driving style and speed on a very regular basis and its not fast. The vast majority would not have been able to avoid the retarded thai driver....but go ahead and glorify yourself any way you can. Also, he did not die at the scene, that is another story, but yet again 'thai' involvement in a very appropriate thai way. As for lashing out because a close friend has died, he wss not a close friend, just someone I knew and would call a friend, someone that was decent and left behind his kids.....so no deep personal connection here for you to tag my opinion to, just you being you. Edited August 23, 2014 by Showbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WarpSpeed Posted August 23, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) No smart arse comments have been made, (except by you) go have a beer in your friends honor and don't drive home after drinking ok? BTW In case you hadn't heard? Sadly Micheal Schumacher can't even drive a golf cart anymore, me on the other hand I still can. Now that's a smart arse comment.. Edited August 23, 2014 by WarpSpeed 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Bell Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 When there are 4 lanes (2 in each direction) without a barrier in between, steer clear (pardon the pun) of cruising the center lanes (overtaking lanes) at speed. Sit back, relax, and be more likely to make it home. We all know about the manic, unskilled, idiotic, dangerous drivers of trucks, pick-ups, and every other sort of vehicle here. He didn't do this, and now his kids don't have a dad anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Let's back off on the rhetoric guys. And WarpSpeed, you keep doing this as you did in the previous topic and putting your professional spin on a normal drivers skills. In racing, you are prepared to react and senses keen on what is going on around you. A normal Joe driver will never be at that high of an alert as a race car driver. Looking closely at the video, he has around 1+ second to react. From what I see, you can hear braking occurring under that time, and just prior to impact attempt to steer left. However there was no place to go as there was a car nearly directly to the left of him. His reaction time was within the normal for the majority of drivers and he had no out in that brief moment. Note the last two paragraphs below. Expectation Reaction times are greatly affected by whether the driver is alert to the need to brake. I've found it useful to divide alertness into three classes: Expected: the driver is alert and aware of the good possibility that braking will be necessary. This is the absolute best reaction time possible. The best estimate is 0.7 second. Of this, 0.5 is perception and 0.2 is movement, the time required to release the accelerator and to depress the brake pedal. Unexpected: the driver detects a common road signal such as a brake from the car ahead or from a traffic signal. Reaction time is somewhat slower, about 1.25 seconds. This is due to the increase in perception time to over a second with movement time still about 0.2 second. Surprise: the drive encounters a very unusual circumstance, such as a pedestrian or another car crossing the road in the near distance. There is extra time needed to interpret the event and to decide upon response. Reaction time depends to some extent on the distance to the obstacle and whether it is approaching from the side and is first seen in peripheral vision. The best estimate is 1.5 seconds for side incursions and perhaps a few tenths of a second faster for straight-ahead obstacles. Perception time is 1.2 seconds while movement time lengthens to 0.3 second. The increased reaction time is due to several factors, including the need to interpret the novel situation and possibly to decide whether there is time to brake or whether steering is a better response. Moreover, drivers encountering another vehicle or pedestrian that violates traffic regulations tend to hesitate, expecting the vehicle/pedestrian to eventually halt. Lastly, there can be response conflict that lengthens reaction time. For example, if a driver's only possible response requires steering into an oncoming traffic lane (to the left) there may be a hesitation. Source - Visual expert Average reaction time of all driver types is 2.3 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) So why are you giving your opinion with less professional perspective than mine? But merely posting a written source that's no more credible and BTW I whole heartedly disagree with it. Am I allowed to do that? So there is some harm in attempting to teach for the benefit of others here?? Silly me I thought this was a motoring forum for advice and information and sharing of automotive related experience? I guess he should have posted in the ladies forum then where he can get nothing but PC RIP's and such? I have been nothing but respectful and honest about my professional observations and have mentioned several times how sorry I was for the OP's loss but regardless people were needlessly killed IMO, I train people to avoid needlessly killing people with techniques that once practiced save lives of the "average Joe driver" and their families, where's the problem? I'm trying to pass those techniques on and doing so without cost where as I usually get paid well for my advice. I also take exception to your suggestion that any rhetoric has been expressed. The reason I disagree with the reaction time source you posted is because it refers only to raw reaction time and does not take into account recognition and anticipation of incidents as they happen or even before, by always watching and always analyzing (which many do not) you can almost anticipate a given incident before it happens which significantly decreases the reaction time to make a difference it's very much like what ANY professional or even amateur athlete does, the best at their sport are the best at this technique but that doesn't mean you have to be the best to avoid or survive a similar collision. My racing enhanced my ability to do this but I've ALWAYS done it my entire driving carrier as that's how I learned to drive from day one by other professionals and it's applied daily off the track since that's where I drive the most miles. Edited August 23, 2014 by WarpSpeed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Perhaps Dash Cams bring Bad Luck.Most Kids i know use them to show off their bravado,and near misses .EGO and Inexperience caused that pointless loss of life. I am in agreement with Warpys points,it upsets Him to see this carnage due to lack of training. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culicine Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Let's back off on the rhetoric guys. And WarpSpeed, you keep doing this as you did in the previous topic and putting your professional spin on a normal drivers skills. In racing, you are prepared to react and senses keen on what is going on around you. A normal Joe driver will never be at that high of an alert as a race car driver. Looking closely at the video, he has around 1+ second to react. From what I see, you can hear braking occurring under that time, and just prior to impact attempt to steer left. However there was no place to go as there was a car nearly directly to the left of him. His reaction time was within the normal for the majority of drivers and he had no out in that brief moment. Note the last two paragraphs below. Expectation Reaction times are greatly affected by whether the driver is alert to the need to brake. I've found it useful to divide alertness into three classes: Expected: the driver is alert and aware of the good possibility that braking will be necessary. This is the absolute best reaction time possible. The best estimate is 0.7 second. Of this, 0.5 is perception and 0.2 is movement, the time required to release the accelerator and to depress the brake pedal. Unexpected: the driver detects a common road signal such as a brake from the car ahead or from a traffic signal. Reaction time is somewhat slower, about 1.25 seconds. This is due to the increase in perception time to over a second with movement time still about 0.2 second. Surprise: the drive encounters a very unusual circumstance, such as a pedestrian or another car crossing the road in the near distance. There is extra time needed to interpret the event and to decide upon response. Reaction time depends to some extent on the distance to the obstacle and whether it is approaching from the side and is first seen in peripheral vision. The best estimate is 1.5 seconds for side incursions and perhaps a few tenths of a second faster for straight-ahead obstacles. Perception time is 1.2 seconds while movement time lengthens to 0.3 second. The increased reaction time is due to several factors, including the need to interpret the novel situation and possibly to decide whether there is time to brake or whether steering is a better response. Moreover, drivers encountering another vehicle or pedestrian that violates traffic regulations tend to hesitate, expecting the vehicle/pedestrian to eventually halt. Lastly, there can be response conflict that lengthens reaction time. For example, if a driver's only possible response requires steering into an oncoming traffic lane (to the left) there may be a hesitation. Source - Visual expert Average reaction time of all driver types is 2.3 seconds Assuming both cars are doing 100 km/h, they are approaching at 55 m/s. Thus total reaction time, as above, for both drivers, is 4.6 seconds. They would have covered nearly 260 metres in that time. That's just reaction time and not even having the cars slow down. That's why I think this accident could not have been avoided. I don't often travel on such roads, but think I'll stick to the left a bit more now. I've seen cars jump over the centre on divided roads, so even that is not entirely safe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Assuming is about right. The SUV took the typical King of the Road Stance,when it pulled out at the start of the Vid....Speed was not a Factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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