Dodgy Wiring Job

[grs90]

It seems that problems with the quality of electrical work here are quite common.  I've certainly encountered problems before and have a new issue now.  So am looking for some advice on how to proceed.

 

Last week, despite all my efforts to avoid it, the wife had family over to stay for a couple of nights.  They certainly enjoyed their visit and using the air conditioning in their bedroom, running it at full power and at the lowest temperature possible.  They also enjoyed using the shower in the guest bedroom.

 

The problem it gave me though was that the circuit breaker for the lights kept tripping while they were doing it.  

 

Subsequent checking revealed that the pump for the water tank (Mitsubishi 205watt) seems to be have been connected up to the lighting circuit.  I don't know if it is connected to the circuit in the consumer unit or if it has just been cut in to a handy wire in the roof space.  The pump was installed 4 years ago and we've had no known problem since then.  The pump has it's own 20amp circuit breaker whilst the lighting circuit has a 10amp breaker in a separate box near the pump.

 

The checking also revealed that the air conditioning in the bedroom is also connected to the lighting circuit.  This is an about 14000BTU Hitachi Inverter model and was moved to the bedroom last year when we had a new unit fitted in the main living room.  This work was done by the installers who fitted the new unit.  They were provided by a well known electrical store that is common in centrally located malls and I thought they would be properly qualified to do the work.  As with the pump, I have no idea what has happened up in the roof space as I don't want to go up there.

 

So, yesterday we got the air conditioning installer boss back for a look see.  Unfortunately this did not go well due to my wife telling him "You do wrong. You do wrong" very loudly, almost before he got out of the car.  He just checked that the air conditioning worked and said "No Problem".  When I turned the pump and some lights on to show him the problem his advice was, quite logically in a way, "Not use same time then no problem".  I tried, via the wife translating, to tell him I wanted the air conditioning off the lighting circuit and connected to something else.

 

He agreed to come back and change things if we paid for it.  But, he says, I have to tell him exactly what I want him to do.  The problem is that I don't know exactly what to tell him to do and I don't want to make thins worse than they already are.

 

We will look for another "electrician" as I have lost confidence in this one.  But I would like to know what to tell them to do, and that is where I would appreciate advice.

 

We have two breakers for air conditioning in the consumer unit, both rated at 35 amps.  One has got a 12000BTU unit on it and the other a 21000BTU.  Is it safe to get the 14000BTU unit connected to the same breaker as the 12000BTU unit?  If not, what does need to happen?

 

Also, what about the pump?  Does it need to be connected to something other than the lighting circuit, given it doesn't draw that much power?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

 

[Presnock]

4 minutes ago, grs90 said:

It seems that problems with the quality of electrical work here are quite common.  I've certainly encountered problems before and have a new issue now.  So am looking for some advice on how to proceed.

 

Last week, despite all my efforts to avoid it, the wife had family over to stay for a couple of nights.  They certainly enjoyed their visit and using the air conditioning in their bedroom, running it at full power and at the lowest temperature possible.  They also enjoyed using the shower in the guest bedroom.

 

The problem it gave me though was that the circuit breaker for the lights kept tripping while they were doing it.  

 

Subsequent checking revealed that the pump for the water tank (Mitsubishi 205watt) seems to be have been connected up to the lighting circuit.  I don't know if it is connected to the circuit in the consumer unit or if it has just been cut in to a handy wire in the roof space.  The pump was installed 4 years ago and we've had no known problem since then.  The pump has it's own 20amp circuit breaker whilst the lighting circuit has a 10amp breaker in a separate box near the pump.

 

The checking also revealed that the air conditioning in the bedroom is also connected to the lighting circuit.  This is an about 14000BTU Hitachi Inverter model and was moved to the bedroom last year when we had a new unit fitted in the main living room.  This work was done by the installers who fitted the new unit.  They were provided by a well known electrical store that is common in centrally located malls and I thought they would be properly qualified to do the work.  As with the pump, I have no idea what has happened up in the roof space as I don't want to go up there.

 

So, yesterday we got the air conditioning installer boss back for a look see.  Unfortunately this did not go well due to my wife telling him "You do wrong. You do wrong" very loudly, almost before he got out of the car.  He just checked that the air conditioning worked and said "No Problem".  When I turned the pump and some lights on to show him the problem his advice was, quite logically in a way, "Not use same time then no problem".  I tried, via the wife translating, to tell him I wanted the air conditioning off the lighting circuit and connected to something else.

 

He agreed to come back and change things if we paid for it.  But, he says, I have to tell him exactly what I want him to do.  The problem is that I don't know exactly what to tell him to do and I don't want to make thins worse than they already are.

 

We will look for another "electrician" as I have lost confidence in this one.  But I would like to know what to tell them to do, and that is where I would appreciate advice.

 

We have two breakers for air conditioning in the consumer unit, both rated at 35 amps.  One has got a 12000BTU unit on it and the other a 21000BTU.  Is it safe to get the 14000BTU unit connected to the same breaker as the 12000BTU unit?  If not, what does need to happen?

 

Also, what about the pump?  Does it need to be connected to something other than the lighting circuit, given it doesn't draw that much power?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

 

Yeah we had a new pump installed at our rental house....installer said he hesitated even installing it as the way it was wired - saying unsafe.  Anyway he too said he would return and let us pay for him to correct the wiring but he never came back. 

[GammaGlobulin]

6 minutes ago, grs90 said:

Last week, despite all my efforts to avoid it, the wife had family over to stay for a couple of nights.  They certainly enjoyed their visit and using the air conditioning in their bedroom, running it at full power and at the lowest temperature possible.  They also enjoyed using the shower in the guest bedroom.

 

The problem it gave me though was that the circuit breaker for the lights kept tripping while they were doing it.  

 

Yes.

 

The wiring here is abominable.

 

For some reason, electrician folks here are unable to compute amperage-watts-volts.

 

This is something that one learns early in life, or should, in either middle school, or, latest, in high school, just via the study of Physics.

 

I am not sure if anyone in Thailand has taken a rigorous course in Physics, either in HS or at university.

 

I think they must steer clear of such difficult subjects.

 

I have often thought that it would be best to formulate some sort of aptitude  test for electricians who come to my house to charge me money for doing dangerous things.

 

Maybe somebody should start a company providing electrical work.

Then send the employees to HK for training.

 

I have never had any problems in HK, or Taiwan, or Japan.

 

After a few years here, I now have ZERO confidence in the technicians available in the local area.

 

NOTE:  I really wish, now, that I had taken a two-year approved course for training of electricians, before arriving in Thailand.

 

Too late now, I guess.

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

9 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Yeah we had a new pump installed at our rental house....installer said he hesitated even installing it as the way it was wired - saying unsafe.  Anyway he too said he would return and let us pay for him to correct the wiring but he never came back. 

 

Maybe he was just blowing smoke.....

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

In theory you can connect many devices all on the same breakers.

But obviously if one device triggers the breaker then all if off.

For this reason, it makes sense to have separate circuits with separate breakers - as many or as few if you want.

IMHO more important if earth.

And to survive in case of some bad connection it makes sense to use RCCB and/or RCBOs.

 

A good electrician should know all this, and he shouldn't ask you to tell him what to do.

Hopefully you will find someone who knows what he is doing. I did my electrical installation by myself, to be sure it works and is safe. 

 

[Presnock]

Just now, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Maybe he was just blowing smoke.....

 

 

He explained exactly why showing how it was wired incorrectly and could lead to overloads on circuits.  plus he said the wiring should have some kind of ground also so be careful.

[Sticky Rice Balls]

just dont invite your guests back  problem solved..or ask for a usage deposit 🙂 or go visit them and run up the bill

[Seeall]

41 minutes ago, grs90 said:

It seems that problems with the quality of electrical work here are quite common.  I've certainly encountered problems before and have a new issue now.  So am looking for some advice on how to proceed.

 

Last week, despite all my efforts to avoid it, the wife had family over to stay for a couple of nights.  They certainly enjoyed their visit and using the air conditioning in their bedroom, running it at full power and at the lowest temperature possible.  They also enjoyed using the shower in the guest bedroom.

 

The problem it gave me though was that the circuit breaker for the lights kept tripping while they were doing it.  

 

Subsequent checking revealed that the pump for the water tank (Mitsubishi 205watt) seems to be have been connected up to the lighting circuit.  I don't know if it is connected to the circuit in the consumer unit or if it has just been cut in to a handy wire in the roof space.  The pump was installed 4 years ago and we've had no known problem since then.  The pump has it's own 20amp circuit breaker whilst the lighting circuit has a 10amp breaker in a separate box near the pump.

 

The checking also revealed that the air conditioning in the bedroom is also connected to the lighting circuit.  This is an about 14000BTU Hitachi Inverter model and was moved to the bedroom last year when we had a new unit fitted in the main living room.  This work was done by the installers who fitted the new unit.  They were provided by a well known electrical store that is common in centrally located malls and I thought they would be properly qualified to do the work.  As with the pump, I have no idea what has happened up in the roof space as I don't want to go up there.

 

So, yesterday we got the air conditioning installer boss back for a look see.  Unfortunately this did not go well due to my wife telling him "You do wrong. You do wrong" very loudly, almost before he got out of the car.  He just checked that the air conditioning worked and said "No Problem".  When I turned the pump and some lights on to show him the problem his advice was, quite logically in a way, "Not use same time then no problem".  I tried, via the wife translating, to tell him I wanted the air conditioning off the lighting circuit and connected to something else.

 

He agreed to come back and change things if we paid for it.  But, he says, I have to tell him exactly what I want him to do.  The problem is that I don't know exactly what to tell him to do and I don't want to make thins worse than they already are.

 

We will look for another "electrician" as I have lost confidence in this one.  But I would like to know what to tell them to do, and that is where I would appreciate advice.

 

We have two breakers for air conditioning in the consumer unit, both rated at 35 amps.  One has got a 12000BTU unit on it and the other a 21000BTU.  Is it safe to get the 14000BTU unit connected to the same breaker as the 12000BTU unit?  If not, what does need to happen?

 

Also, what about the pump?  Does it need to be connected to something other than the lighting circuit, given it doesn't draw that much power?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

 

 

its normal to wire the easiest way with no safety regards,

 

a big one is no Earthing rod!!  I put in myself, 6 foot copper from hardware shop... check you have...  

[NoDisplayName]

First thing..........map your circuits.

 

Figure out exactly what is connected to each breaker, that includes lights and sockets, not just the hard-wired appliances.

 

What about your consumer unit?  What are the breaker ratings vs. how much load on each?  Any empty slots available?  What is the condition and rating of the cables running from the breakers to the junction boxes where it splits to lights and sockets?

 

How many amps does your water pump pull at startup?  It's rated at 205 watts which should be under 1 amp in operation, maybe 3 amp pull at startup.  What else is on that circuit besides lighting?  And can you trace it back to which breaker at the consumer unit?

 

[steven100]

1 hour ago, grs90 said:

enjoyed their visit and using the air conditioning in their bedroom, running it at full power and at the lowest temperature possible.  They also enjoyed using the shower in the guest bedroom.

 

should they bring a bucket and some soap next time .....  and they can bring a fan along as you'll be disconnecting the aircon.  

[Seeall]

24 minutes ago, steven100 said:

 

should they bring a bucket and some soap next time .....  and they can bring a fan along as you'll be disconnecting the aircon.  

yeah like the cinema right, need a jumper....  even my tissue box they seem to enjoy excessively pulling em out lol....

I guess a bad idea to open a buffet place..

[grs90]

28 minutes ago, steven100 said:

 

should they bring a bucket and some soap next time .....  and they can bring a fan along as you'll be disconnecting the aircon.  

Next time?

 

There won't be a next time if I can help it.  I hate it when anyone comes to stay due to my unsociable nature.

 

Nice people but they do take liberties such as drinking all my beer and just helping themselves to anything in the fridge or cupboard.  

 

Not really a problem though as they have got nothing of their own and I don't begrudge them taking the piss a bit.   A bit like me really when staying at a hotel with free toiletries and an executive lounge!!

 

By the way, did you have any advice about the electrical issue or were you just virtue signalling?

 

 

[steven100]

11 minutes ago, grs90 said:

Next time?

 

There won't be a next time if I can help it.  I hate it when anyone comes to stay due to my unsociable nature.

 

Nice people but they do take liberties such as drinking all my beer and just helping themselves to anything in the fridge or cupboard.  

 

Not really a problem though as they have got nothing of their own and I don't begrudge them taking the piss a bit.   A bit like me really when staying at a hotel with free toiletries and an executive lounge!!

 

By the way, did you have any advice about the electrical issue or were you just virtue signalling?

 

 

 

only that it's hard to find a decent proper electrician here ... I built 2 houses up north,   every time I came to see what was going on I got a bad surprise,   the electrician was wiring the outside lights by just twisting the wires together and electrical tape ...  I went to the shop and bought half a dozen screw connectors and had my friend hand them to him. 

 

anyway,   if you find someone .... have the AC and the pump put on two more separate circuit breakers ... if you have room in the box for a couple more ... as others have said the same.  

 

I think most think like you & me when relatives come to stay ....    they're like fish , good when fresh but after a couple of days they start to smell. 

 

 

Edited May 17 by steven100

[bluejets]

16 hours ago, grs90 said:

"Not use same time then no problem"

................. good one.

 

Just be careful telling anyone their job, it'll backfire on you every time.

Remember Thai do not like being embarrassed, put on the spot or "told off" by anyone. 

 

Saying you would "like" to have a separate circuit run from the main distribution board ( with safety cut) for each of the air conditioner, shower and have the pump connected to an existing  power circuit, off the lights(also safety switch)

A single line drawing of what you have now and what you would "like" to have would be a good first move, with another lecky naturally.

First one will tell you where to go now I'd imagine.

Edited May 17 by bluejets

[grs90]

Thanks for the helpful advice.  Will ask for two new circuits to be added to the consumer unit.  
 

And, having concluded that @steven100 was right, will visit the 20 baht shop to procure a bucket in case the family visit again.😇

 

Cheers all