Letter translation/intelligent way to know it's right.

[cheeryble]

Hi there

I am writing a letter which would go to a pretty large group of people.

Let's say it's a thousand words.

It is a constructive criticism of a letter from someone else which went out to that group.

It contains plenty of facts but it is not just a bread and butter document.

I would like it to contain quite nuanced phraseology, possibly even humorous criticism and so on.

I can read and write a little Thai, but my skills are nowhere close to adequate, and I need translation.

This is not commercial, so whilst I would happily pay for the right person or persons time, it needs to be very reasonable price wise i.e. I don't go to the best firm in Bangkok. On the other hand a grad student learning English whilst well priced will likely not do a great job.

I have many times read translations from Thai which simply don't cut the mustard, and one's eyes glaze over after the first paragraph.

I want people to read this right through, and enjoy reading it, and be persuaded by it, as if it were a political manifesto.

So, there may be more responses in future, I'd like to get the method right, how do I check the translation for quality?

For example….do i get a third party check on the translation?

I can't be the first person in this position.

Is there an acknowledged method for ensuring this sort of thing is done well, and what is it?

Thanks v much

ps Presumably there are word rates for translation…..do they vary with quality?

How much would I actually spend for a high quality service and again how would I ensure it's up to snuff?

[phuketsub]

Yes, you will need to have a third party not only check it, but proof it.

[DavidHouston]

Thai Visa sponsors a translation service. See http://www.thaivisa.com/translations/

[cheeryble]

Thanks Phuketsub and David

Actually seeing the Thaivisa sponsor ad brings my point home to me.

I has several recommendations.....but what type of translations are those people praising.

They may well get businesslike translations for businesses.....but as I said I want to ensure nuance, humour...who knows one might require irony or even sarcasm in say a written criticism.

I'm not saying this is easy to ensure faithful translation, but thinking of the possible system one should follow.

It had first occurred to me that if one used a circular system.....where say English went to Thai....possibly with oversight editor.....and THEN was translated back to English by an independent translator, one might be able to check if the message got across.

This is probably overkill for my humble document, just started thinking of this for the first time.

What may be a reasonable step though, is instead of js it sending off a doc for translation, to actually sit down with the translator and go through the doc checking their understanding of nuance.

I already tried with a Thai grad student friend, but I think it needs a step up, and I'd like to learn what it might cost and if OK find the right person in CM.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Mole]

Well, in your first post, you mentioned that you want it reasonably priced, in other words, you aren't really willing to pay much for the translation. But then your other requirements are quite extensive, and all this will cost money.

No translation agency will let you sit with the translator like that. They usually only receive your document at their office, then forward it to their translator which does the job, then sends back to this office.

All you may be able to convey is that you'd like to "want to ensure nuance, humor". But this surely depends on your original text that you want to have it translated. If it's already written witty and humorous, obviously they will translate it accordingly. It all depends on how you wrote it because they obviously will be translating what you wrote, nothing more and nothing less.

Also always keep in mind that often, especially when translating between language of vastly different culture and across language family, a lot of things will be lost in translation, so in the end you must chose what's more important, the purpose of the message, or the humor. A lot of times, your witty wordplay may not be able to be translated without it either completely losing it's meaning, or becoming something unfunny.

To verify a translation, you would have to pay somebody else to do it, so that is gonna cost money.

You can't have it both cheap and such other though requirements.

You surely isn't the first person in this position, but other people before you surely were prepared to pay accordingly to satisfy their needs.

In the end it all boils down to what is most important for you, keeping the cost low, or having it done and verified properly.

[Gsxrnz]

The problem is that most/many phrases, idioms, nuances will not translate easily into Thai. It sounds as though you need a translator that is 100% fluent to a high level in both languages. Probably somebody such as a Leuk Krueng who is totally familiar with both languages and has lived and grown up in both cultures.

For example, if you use something like "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush", if translated verbatim will be gobbledy gook in Thai. The person translating needs to know that particular nuance and the approximate Thai equivalent such as สิบ-เบี้ย-ไกฺล้-มือ or sib biia glai meuu (ten cowrie shells close to hand). The same will apply for many such phrases and nuances that you are proposing - the wrong choice of word will either ruin your letter or make you look like an idiot (or both). Because the more complex you make it, the greater incidence of mistranslation you will have.

The alternative is to find an intelligent Falang that has a smattering of Thai, with a wife that is intelligent and has moderate/good English to spend a few days (week?) with a computer and dictionaries to thrash out a draft, and then have it proofed and redrafted by several independent Thais who are capable of explaining in English their understanding of the tone and nuances that you are intending.

Otherwise it will come out like any piece of rubbish translations that we see everyday from Thai to English. My favourite is the sign advertising the wheelchair access ramp at the Pattaya train station, it proudly pronounces to be a "Handicapped Lamp".

[cheeryble]

Well, in your first post, you mentioned that you want it reasonably priced, in other words, you aren't really willing to pay much for the translation. But then your other requirements are quite extensive, and all this will cost money.

No translation agency will let you sit with the translator like that. They usually only receive your document at their office, then forward it to their translator which does the job, then sends back to this office.

All you may be able to convey is that you'd like to "want to ensure nuance, humor". But this surely depends on your original text that you want to have it translated. If it's already written witty and humorous, obviously they will translate it accordingly. It all depends on how you wrote it because they obviously will be translating what you wrote, nothing more and nothing less.

Also always keep in mind that often, especially when translating between language of vastly different culture and across language family, a lot of things will be lost in translation, so in the end you must chose what's more important, the purpose of the message, or the humor. A lot of times, your witty wordplay may not be able to be translated without it either completely losing it's meaning, or becoming something unfunny.

To verify a translation, you would have to pay somebody else to do it, so that is gonna cost money.

You can't have it both cheap and such other though requirements.

You surely isn't the first person in this position, but other people before you surely were prepared to pay accordingly to satisfy their needs.

In the end it all boils down to what is most important for you, keeping the cost low, or having it done and verified properly.

Thankyou Mole and good points.

As i said I just need to know a ballpark cost for this sort of thing, and maybe lateral thinking about how to do.

I'm afraid i would have to insist on a face to face to ensure the "meaning" of the parts of the doc is understood and hope this is available somewhere.

[cheeryble]

The problem is that most/many phrases, idioms, nuances will not translate easily into Thai. It sounds as though you need a translator that is 100% fluent to a high level in both languages. Probably somebody such as a Leuk Krueng who is totally familiar with both languages and has lived and grown up in both cultures.

For example, if you use something like "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush", if translated verbatim will be gobbledy gook in Thai. The person translating needs to know that particular nuance and the approximate Thai equivalent such as สิบ-เบี้ย-ไกฺล้-มือ or sib biia glai meuu (ten cowrie shells close to hand). The same will apply for many such phrases and nuances that you are proposing - the wrong choice of word will either ruin your letter or make you look like an idiot (or both). Because the more complex you make it, the greater incidence of mistranslation you will have.

The alternative is to find an intelligent Falang that has a smattering of Thai, with a wife that is intelligent and has moderate/good English to spend a few days (week?) with a computer and dictionaries to thrash out a draft, and then have it proofed and redrafted by several independent Thais who are capable of explaining in English their understanding of the tone and nuances that you are intending.

Otherwise it will come out like any piece of rubbish translations that we see everyday from Thai to English. My favourite is the sign advertising the wheelchair access ramp at the Pattaya train station, it proudly pronounces to be a "Handicapped Lamp".

Thanks Gsxrnz

certainly sayings don't translate literally at all well!

But if one ensures the translator gets the meaning they should presumably come up with an alternative in Thai?

[phuketsub]

This brinks to mind the lament of a really good translator; few are in a position to appreciate the quality of excellent work...