Immigration Bureau told to be flexible with 'visa runners'

[silent]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Careful you don't hex a common sense revolution. It's important for a beginner level English speaking Thai Engineer to be able to say that they've been taught English by a farang with at least a degree in Psychology, as opposed to someone who speaks and teaches Thai and can also say "I same same fluent English"?

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I suppose this is another one of those phrases that lost something in translation: "The runners can register with the bureau". Register as what, visa runners?

It means that if you can show that you are an English teacher or 'academic', you won't get hassle at the border each time. If you are running a business without a work permit, expect more scrutiny.

[thhMan]

I feel like I am in a giant circus tent and just sitting on a bench watching all the circus clowns performing juggling acts and other clowns driving their little cars and chasing the midgets who always elude them...

[arisaje]

Ok, that is an important step in bring back tourism. Keep making it easy for tourist to stay. I know many that want to stay 6 onths.

Now the next step. Allow all bars in tourist areas to be open 24x7. Tourist do not have to go to work in the morning. That is why there is a bar closing rule in the world to begin with. When I was in Irland the closing time was around 11pm - serioulsy.

Let the night life keep rolling allowing tourist to spend money their maximum amount that will refeash the Thailand economy. All areas in the world that are tourist heavy allow bars to be open 24x7 and some even 365. Thirdly, protect the tourist and serve them.

Maybe they should think about giving retirement visas to people under 50, if they have money to show they can live , what is the problem if they are young or old ? If they have money to stay and spend, and have clean criminal record, let's welcome than. Nobody can milk any system in Thailand, because there is no system, you pay for everything, so it makes sense to let people choose to spend their moneys in Thailand.

does your home country allow that?

@AYJAYDEE isn't this the whole problem that Thailand is trying to get out of..?

There are thousands of retirees in Thailand under 50 with the means to take care of themselves and don't milk the state (not that there is anything to milk) the problem is a lot of these under 50 retirees are criminals....with money but also with a variety of criminal records.

Tighten up the rules, make people jump through legal hoops to get in. If people complain about these things and needs for the right visas......its because they are worried and cannot comply with the new rules and hurdles being put in place.

[lust]

I think teachers should be "qualified teachers" not a regular person who likes thailand and wants to stay here forever......and picks the easiest job in the world to cover their cost of living. Half of these supposed English Teachers and Thai Language Students from overseas have no interest at all in either teaching .......or learning.

Get a visa like all the genuine working folk, or get out and find somewhere else to hang out like sub-sahara africa......no issues with visas down there.

teaching is the easiest job in the world? O . o

check your facts friend

Edited August 22, 2014 by lust

[nithisa78]

Of course. It was mostly wake up call. The Thai people are enlightened people. There is mystical power possess all of them. Purity and goodness and often perfect harmony. energies at times can conflict. they've imagination, hospitality, generosity. spiritual courage, resilient strength, many aspects one can not put a finger on.

Long Live The King.

[istinspring]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

[Tanlic]

Really pleased for these young people/English teachers and can understand where the General is coming from.

Whether it be Thailand, Japan, China or wherever the best people to learn English from is native speakers

Most schools/colleges in Thailand can't afford to pay the salaries that International schools do so these teachers are the best option they have.

They get life experience from living and working in a foreig country and Thai kids get a better chance in life.

Let's hope for the sake of every decent young teacher Flexible translated into Thai and back into English means "look the other way"

Edited August 22, 2014 by Tanlic

[ovenman]

I suppose this is another one of those phrases that lost something in translation: "The runners can register with the bureau". Register as what, visa runners?

It means that if you can show that you are an English teacher or 'academic', you won't get hassle at the border each time. If you are running a business without a work permit, expect more scrutiny.

OK, then one would be registering as "I work in Thailand illegally as a teacher on a tourist visa"? Were I in that boat, I think I would prefer simply registering as a visa runner.

Edited August 22, 2014 by ovenman

[Jools]

The usual five minutes of deep thought given to every decision made by Thai government agencies. When the economy is drying up, the obvious thing to do is to take steps to prevent any possible infusion of cash. Way to go. Ready, fire, aim.

[hobz]

It's tough to post something about this without ridiculing the thai government and break the rules on thaivisa forum.

[ttthailand]

One thing positive you can say about our new PM (the General) is that he is willing to adjust his thinking based on facts rather than hold firm so not to loose face. I think there is hope for this country after all.

[John1thru10]

I always have a hard time not feeiing insulted at the statement that visa runners = illegal working. I can understand the thinking, of course. But myself, I've done a thousand visa runs, because immigration used to encourage it very actively. I never had any idea that I was doing something they would later say meant I was doing something illegal, or against the law somehow.

And the thing is, in 5 years - I've never, ever worked in Thailand! Ever. And I'm also not wealthy, either. I'm just kind of lucky, and have always had a way to scrape by from outside sources. That doesn't mean I have it all at once, like in a big pile that I can say: 'There, I am going to live on that amount for the next 10 years, absolutely guaranteed!' I make some money every few months from writing, or as a composer, travel out to Europe and do something. Nothing bad or illegal way at all, ever. But...under these new ideas, they just refuse to believe me. If they took any time with me, I could easily show someone what I do, and they could talk to my landlord or whoever they wanted, who would say I was a decent guy who paid the rent on time, and wasn't a criminal.

I've just really wished there an option to be able to explain to the authorities who I actually am, instead of this stereotype of either illegal, criminal - or sitting on some giant mountain of cash at the other extreme.

Edited August 22, 2014 by John1thru10

[ggt]

Just another of the many Thai rules and regs...which can be interpreted by each official differently...more BS to put up with..

[AYJAYDEE]

Ok, that is an important step in bring back tourism. Keep making it easy for tourist to stay. I know many that want to stay 6 onths.

Now the next step. Allow all bars in tourist areas to be open 24x7. Tourist do not have to go to work in the morning. That is why there is a bar closing rule in the world to begin with. When I was in Irland the closing time was around 11pm - serioulsy.

Let the night life keep rolling allowing tourist to spend money their maximum amount that will refeash the Thailand economy. All areas in the world that are tourist heavy allow bars to be open 24x7 and some even 365. Thirdly, protect the tourist and serve them.

Maybe they should think about giving retirement visas to people under 50, if they have money to show they can live , what is the problem if they are young or old ? If they have money to stay and spend, and have clean criminal record, let's welcome than. Nobody can milk any system in Thailand, because there is no system, you pay for everything, so it makes sense to let people choose to spend their moneys in Thailand.

does your home country allow that?

@AYJAYDEE isn't this the whole problem that Thailand is trying to get out of..?

There are thousands of retirees in Thailand under 50 with the means to take care of themselves and don't milk the state (not that there is anything to milk) the problem is a lot of these under 50 retirees are criminals....with money but also with a variety of criminal records.

Tighten up the rules, make people jump through legal hoops to get in. If people complain about these things and needs for the right visas......its because they are worried and cannot comply with the new rules and hurdles being put in place.

does your country allow it?

[John1thru10]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

It's not like the person you're talking to is setting EU/US policy, though. Personally, I think Thai's should be allowed to immigrate very easily to the US, speaking as an American. I'd feel no problem with it at all.

[MarkmBha]

One would ask "What is flexible"?

[Bubblefunk]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Absolutely well said.

Also if the Thai Gov seem to be concerned about forang not paying enough money to the government in taxes, why not just make us go to Chaeng Wattana etc every 3 months and pay like 10,000+ baht each time for a new visa (apx cost each visa run, all in) I'd be happy to pay it plus any police checks or income / bank allowances etc... Then all the money goes to the masters in control, if money is what they want? Or Is this too simple?

[grantbkk]

People here will jump at anything put forward buy a government that supports their situation and who can blame them. This is the PM mentioning something in what context? I would wait for further clarification before I would register as an illegal with the "bureau". This has not been thought through and sounds like the musings of someone thinking out loud. I don't blame the hopeful uneducated english teachers who think degrees are a drag and want to survive in a foreign country.

[Hawkman]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Careful you don't hex a common sense revolution. It's important for a beginner level English speaking Thai Engineer to be able to say that they've been taught English by a farang with at least a degree in Psychology, as opposed to someone who speaks and teaches Thai and can also say "I same same fluent English"?

Hence my point about have a screening and observation for a teaching requirement.

I am strongly against the idea that a white farang should just pick up a teaching job because he can speak English; not my point at all. That's the kind of person we want to rid from the tefl industry.

My point being, having a degree in something unrelated to English or education won't make you a better TEFL teacher. Being a passionate and skilled teacher, will. You don't need four years of study to become a tefl teacher in Thailand or any other country.

Would you rather someone fix your car with a degree in Cooking but no experience or someone with no degree but 10 years experience in the motor industry?

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Mister Fixit]

Let's hope for the sake of every decent young teacher Flexible translated into Thai and back into English means "look the other way"

The problem is that Thais have been 'looking the other way' for WAY too long and that's why it's in the mess it's in, and why it needed yet another coup to sort the country out ...

If this 'looking the other way' over visas is indicative of the way the junta is going, then I don't hold out much hope for Thailand ...

Up to now, Gen Prayut has been doing a damn fine job of looking directly at problems and trying to deal with them. Don't spoil it now, General ...

[BKKSnowBird]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

The degree requirement is not going to change.

We all know there are good and bad teachers with and without degrees. Lets not start that debate again.

Thailand does not need more western drop outs coming here. If you are so passionate about teaching, invest in more than a 4 week cert. SIMPLE.

[nicolas18]

does your country allow it?

Thailand should never be compared to Western countries, as far as immigration laws are concerned.

A) Immigrants here do not receive any benefits. As long as they do not take the job of a Thai, they, by default, are bringing in money to spend without receiving anything in return. This contributes to the economy by creating or sustaining jobs and businesses and by bringing in some extra sales tax to the government's coffers.

B ) Thailand is still a developing country and it really needs all the money it can get. Western countries can afford to get picky, a country like Thailand, which needs cash to sustain its development, cannot.

PS: Glad you found another topic to harp on already.

[Hawkman]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I think teachers should be "qualified teachers" not a regular person who likes thailand and wants to stay here forever......and picks the easiest job in the world to cover their cost of living. Half of these supposed English Teachers and Thai Language Students from overseas have no interest at all in either teaching .......or learning.

Get a visa like all the genuine working folk, or get out and find somewhere else to hang out like sub-sahara africa......no issues with visas down there.

And that's the whole point of the discussion. Teachers who are good at what they do and are passionate and have experience should get the visas and work permits.

Get rid of the ones who aren't good whether they meet the degree requirements or not.

And no, you don't need a degree in education to teach TEFL. It helps, sure, but let's be realistic and be in the real world here.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[dao16]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

It's not like the person you're talking to is setting EU/US policy, though. Personally, I think Thai's should be allowed to immigrate very easily to the US, speaking as an American. I'd feel no problem with it at all.

I would like to add my voice as another American who is staring into the void in terms of the visa there (and I am not the only one). I do think it should be easier for Thais, especially those who have significant connections to citizens, to get visas. However, I also see that the needs of the US and Thailand are different. In the US, we don't need a load of Thai teachers. Thailand, on the other hand, needs English teachers.

I teach here and my students definitely benefit from it (I just happen to teach out in the countryside, and access to foreign teachers is rare). I do have all of the qualifications (the degrees, etc., what have you), but I have always thought of teaching as a craft. Yeah, ok, I did a university degree that wasn't related to education, but I learned about life an other things through that process. That said, I know some guys who have no university degree who are great teachers....Thailand would be remiss to kick all of those people out when they clearly can teach.

[Mojomor]

The Hub of shooting ourselves in the foot.

Shortly it will be about turn on the companies with Thai nominee shareholders.

The Hub of lunacy also.

[AYJAYDEE]

does your country allow it?

Thailand should never be compared to Western countries, as far as immigration laws are concerned.

A) Immigrants here do not receive any benefits. As long as they do not take the job of a Thai, they, by default, are bringing in money to spend without receiving anything in return. This contributes to the economy by creating or sustaining jobs and businesses and by bringing in some extra sales tax to the government's coffers.

B ) Thailand is still a developing country and it really needs all the money it can get. Western countries can afford to get picky, a country like Thailand, which needs cash to sustain its development, cannot.

PS: Glad you found another topic to harp on already.

thailand doesnt need you to decide what it needs.

Edited August 22, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[nicolas18]

The problem is that Thais have been 'looking the other way' for WAY too long and that's why it's in the mess it's in, and why it needed yet another coup to sort the country out ...

If this 'looking the other way' over visas is indicative of the way the junta is going, then I don't hold out much hope for Thailand ...

Up to now, Gen Prayut has been doing a damn fine job of looking directly at problems and trying to deal with them. Don't spoil it now, General ...

Damn, the honeymoon between the old right-wing codgers and the general didn't last long.

[Hawkman]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

The degree requirement is not going to change.

We all know there are good and bad teachers with and without degrees. Lets not start that debate again.

Thailand does not need more western drop outs coming here. If you are so passionate about teaching, invest in more than a 4 week cert. SIMPLE.

Agree, 4 weeks isn't enough, not in the slightest. But a 4 year degree to teach tefl for 35,000 baht a month? Tefl, celta, training, good recommendations, experience and observation. SIMPLE.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Edited August 22, 2014 by Hawkman

[AYJAYDEE]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

It's not like the person you're talking to is setting EU/US policy, though. Personally, I think Thai's should be allowed to immigrate very easily to the US, speaking as an American. I'd feel no problem with it at all.

I would like to add my voice as another American who is staring into the void in terms of the visa there (and I am not the only one). I do think it should be easier for Thais, especially those who have significant connections to citizens, to get visas. However, I also see that the needs of the US and Thailand are different. In the US, we don't need a load of Thai teachers. Thailand, on the other hand, needs English teachers.

I teach here and my students definitely benefit from it (I just happen to teach out in the countryside, and access to foreign teachers is rare). I do have all of the qualifications (the degrees, etc., what have you), but I have always thought of teaching as a craft. Yeah, ok, I did a university degree that wasn't related to education, but I learned about life an other things through that process. That said, I know some guys who have no university degree who are great teachers....Thailand would be remiss to kick all of those people out when they clearly can teach.

and how are they going to separate the good teachers from the bad ones?