Immigration Bureau told to be flexible with 'visa runners'

[John1thru10]

I suppose this is another one of those phrases that lost something in translation: "The runners can register with the bureau". Register as what, visa runners?

I was just going to say also, that is a very confusing idea.

[jspill]

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

It should be slightly harder to enter countries that once you're in provide an easy path to citizenship and permanent residence, highly paid employment, no restricted job categories, full voting rights, land ownership, 100% business ownership, free healthcare (UK), government benefits, free education, no need for visa runs/ reporting, etc.

[John1thru10]

The problem is that Thais have been 'looking the other way' for WAY too long and that's why it's in the mess it's in, and why it needed yet another coup to sort the country out ...

If this 'looking the other way' over visas is indicative of the way the junta is going, then I don't hold out much hope for Thailand ...

Up to now, Gen Prayut has been doing a damn fine job of looking directly at problems and trying to deal with them. Don't spoil it now, General ...

Damn, the honeymoon between the old right-wing codgers and the general didn't last long.

Hhahahaaaa!!!! Haaaa! I seriously can't stop laughing at the moment, you nailed that one so well! ha Thank you, I really needed a solid laugh today and you cheered me up immensely after feeling brought down by those guys so many times here the last months. Seriously, I can't stop laughing right now because you nailed that one so perfectly

[ukrules]

I thought it would take many months for them to realise there was some kind of problem.

[JesseFrank]

I bet the general noticed the empty spots already.

I hope you're being sarcastic. One never know here at the hub of self-promoting agenda.

I hope you are being sarcastic because you start to sound like a stalking apologist.

[yellow1red1]

There are many young Thais who are fluent enough in English they could pass TEFL. Their English is better than some of the Philipine and Croat [teachers] I've met, and 100 times better than any Thai English teacher I've talked to. [well talk wasn't exactly 'it', as they couldn't carry a conversation. How are YOU today?]

I have close to 10 Thai Face-book friends who are VERY fluent in English and have met several others, even in the rural areas I visit, who are fluent, working as clerks and such. Any English class I visited there were young students who were more fluent than the Thai 'teacher'.

This is the 21rst Century, they don't need foreigners to teach English, just work with those that have applied themselves to becoming fluent.

[leesgems]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

I completely agree. What is with the preferences on racial workers? Cambodians=good, Burma-sorta good. Farangs=only when we have no other choice

[ericthai]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

The degree requirement is not going to change.

We all know there are good and bad teachers with and without degrees. Lets not start that debate again.

Thailand does not need more western drop outs coming here. If you are so passionate about teaching, invest in more than a 4 week cert. SIMPLE.

I agree with you.

I wanted to be an electrical engineer i went to school and got my degree. if you want to teach here and that is the requirement then just do it.

A dive instructor needs to be certified, a car mechanic needs his tools to do his job. I wouldn't want a pilot not to be qualified, governments, companies etc have their requirements if you want to do that job get the qualifications needed to do it. A thai friend of mine wanted to work in the industrial area in Rayong. He went to school and got degree to allow him to work in the industrial arena, not just do construction work.

[John1thru10]

People here will jump at anything put forward buy a government that supports their situation and who can blame them. This is the PM mentioning something in what context? I would wait for further clarification before I would register as an illegal with the "bureau". This has not been thought through and sounds like the musings of someone thinking out loud. I don't blame the hopeful uneducated english teachers who think degrees are a drag and want to survive in a foreign country.

I agree. I usually listen to all of the Gen's speeches. And, whie he seems like a decent and thinking man, he does seem to be thinking out loud for the most part in them. They don't seem particularly scripted, and he kind of does seem to mention whatever's on his mind at the moment without a lot of definites.

[nicolas18]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

I completely agree. What is with the preferences on racial workers? Cambodians=good, Burma-sorta good. Farangs=only when we have no other choice

Do you want to work for a Cambodian's salary?

[AYJAYDEE]

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

It should be slightly harder to enter countries that once you're in provide an easy path to citizenship and permanent residence, highly paid employment, no restricted job categories, full voting rights, land ownership, 100% business ownership, free healthcare (UK), government benefits, free education, no need for visa runs/ reporting, etc.

SLIGHTLY harder?? lol

[ukrules]

There are many young Thais who are fluent enough in English they could pass TEFL. Their English is better than some of the Philipine and Croat [teachers] I've met, and 100 times better than any Thai English teacher I've talked to. [well talk wasn't exactly 'it', as they couldn't carry a conversation. How are YOU today?]

I have close to 10 Thai Face-book friends who are VERY fluent in English and have met several others, even in the rural areas I visit, who are fluent, working as clerks and such. Any English class I visited there were young students who were more fluent than the Thai 'teacher'.

This is the 21rst Century, they don't need foreigners to teach English, just work with those that have applied themselves to becoming fluent.

The problem of course is that the Thai's who speak flawless English tend to have well paying jobs with decent companies.

[leesgems]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

The US is not at all difficult, you only need enough paperwork to get into Mexico then you just walk the rest of the way.

[nicolas18]

I agree with you.

I wanted to be an electrical engineer i went to school and got my degree. if you want to teach here and that is the requirement then just do it.

A dive instructor needs to be certified, a car mechanic needs his tools to do his job. I wouldn't want a pilot not to be qualified, governments, companies etc have their requirements if you want to do that job get the qualifications needed to do it. A thai friend of mine wanted to work in the industrial area in Rayong. He went to school and got degree to allow him to work in the industrial arena, not just do construction work.

The problem is that the vast majority of schools in Thailand still pay the same wages they did 10 years ago. Go to Ajarn.com and look at the teaching jobs posted there. Most of them come with a salary that is between 25K baht and 40K. Would you pay to go to university and spend a few years getting a degree only to make 30K per month?

I wouldn't. Teachers with a legit degree can make 3 times that in Japan, South Korea or even the Middle East.

[Hawkman]

and how are they going to separate the good teachers from the bad ones?

Just one sentence - but well to the point. I really don't know. How can you? A degree in education would be the best answer but then you will get NO teachers at language schools or Government schools and poor families will suffer. I think if the MOE, Government, country, parents and students want good teachers there needs to be some sort of proper assessment.

Any Tom, Dick and Harry could say they can teach English, but they can't. I know I keep beating the drum and I have heard some Thai school owners say the same thing, why not have the work permit and visa based on the ability to teach and teaching certificate? Everyone wins. Gets rid of the bad teachers this way and keeps the good ones.

The current system does not work in my opinion, it needs changing. In many countries you don't need a degree to teach TEFL, so why here? Many don't see TEFL as a long career move. Why can't people have more than one career as long as they do a good job at it?

I won't argue that unfortunately there are lots of rubbish teachers and wasters here, however, not all of them are teachers, I include retirees and other expats too.

[nicolas18]

The US is not at all difficult, you only need enough paperwork to get into Mexico then you just walk the rest of the way.

You're right, I heard that too on Fox News. Just before a segment on how video games are turning innocent children into devil worshippers.

[AYJAYDEE]

and how are they going to separate the good teachers from the bad ones?

Just one sentence - but well to the point. I really don't know. How can you? A degree in education would be the best answer but then you will get NO teachers at language schools or Government schools and poor families will suffer. I think if the MOE, Government, country, parents and students want good teachers there needs to be some sort of proper assessment.

Any Tom, Dick and Harry could say they can teach English, but they can't. I know I keep beating the drum and I have heard some Thai school owners say the same thing, why not have the work permit and visa based on the ability to teach and teaching certificate? Everyone wins. Gets rid of the bad teachers this way and keeps the good ones.

The current system does not work in my opinion, it needs changing. In many countries you don't need a degree to teach TEFL, so why here? Many don't see TEFL as a long career move. Why can't people have more than one career as long as they do a good job at it?

I won't argue that unfortunately there are lots of rubbish teachers and wasters here, however, not all of them are teachers, I include retirees and other expats too.

the difficulty involved makes it easier just to say " get a degree".

[arisaje]

does your country allow it?

Thailand should never be compared to Western countries, as far as immigration laws are concerned.

A) Immigrants here do not receive any benefits. As long as they do not take the job of a Thai, they, by default, are bringing in money to spend without receiving anything in return. This contributes to the economy by creating or sustaining jobs and businesses and by bringing in some extra sales tax to the government's coffers.

B ) Thailand is still a developing country and it really needs all the money it can get. Western countries can afford to get picky, a country like Thailand, which needs cash to sustain its development, cannot.

PS: Glad you found another topic to harp on already.

thailand doesnt need you to decide what it needs.

@ nicolas18 What makes you think Thailand needs cash of western teachers?

What the hell can western teachers on their salary contribute to Thailand? other than genuine Businessmen and genuine Tourists who are in Thailand legally.......then the rest of the people who come and stay are usually pretty poor and the ones Thailand can do without.

Thailand in actual fact is a pretty wealthy country in reality, just because it isn't spent correctly is another matter.

European countries are not developing......but most of them are broke and up to the necks in debt......but they have nice roads and clean streets.

[leesgems]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

The US is not at all difficult, you only need enough paperwork to get into Mexico then you just walk the rest of the way.

Just kidding of course. The real reason the US cannot allow easy legal entry is because of the welfare system, poor people could collect government checks. It is the kind of populist policy that Thailand is trying to avoid now. Here in Thailand there is no system to milk so the rules can be different.

[Mister Fixit]

The problem of course is that the Thai's who speak flawless English tend to have well paying jobs with decent companies.

And are very often extremely arrogant with it. A sort of 'I'm better than you now, farang' attitude.

[Gumballl]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Who has the time/resources to monitor a person who possesses no credentials whatsoever?

It does not take any degree of intelligence to get a certificate in TEFL (or any other similar program). But does that make a teacher? Heck no!

I want a person who has taken Child Psychology classes; a person that has demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt that they can complete a university degree (which btw, isn't difficult).

Whether a university educated person, regardless if they studied teaching, psychology or under-water basket weaving, will make a good teach is anyone's guess. However, I'll wager my money these educated people will probably almost always be better at teaching than some retard high-school drop-out.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Gumballl

[Mister Fixit]

The problem is that Thais have been 'looking the other way' for WAY too long and that's why it's in the mess it's in, and why it needed yet another coup to sort the country out ...

If this 'looking the other way' over visas is indicative of the way the junta is going, then I don't hold out much hope for Thailand ...

Up to now, Gen Prayut has been doing a damn fine job of looking directly at problems and trying to deal with them. Don't spoil it now, General ...

Damn, the honeymoon between the old right-wing codgers and the general didn't last long.

Obviously, you have considerable deficits in perception. You plainly did not understand one word of what I was saying. Sorry if you couldn't understand my oblique remark.

We just have to wait and see which way the General, sorry, PM, jumps. To the old way, or stick with reforms and renew the culture which has had Thailand stuck in the mud for so long ...

[AYJAYDEE]

I think it would be quite simple for those to that want to stay long term to just do a police background check and/or get a qualified reference or sponsor locally to vouche for one's character, issue a "green card" and let people work where ever they can get a job and pay taxes. I don't understand why that would be so damn difficult. I just find it so offensive that if you're one of a certain race to can work here. Democracy starts with equality and all people should be recognized as people and not things such as "farang".

Really? So why you're not allow Thai to go to EU/US without hell of paperwork? Typical western double standards. Democracy is not kind of thing which will work only in one direction.

The US is not at all difficult, you only need enough paperwork to get into Mexico then you just walk the rest of the way.

Just kidding of course. The real reason the US cannot allow easy legal entry is because of the welfare system, poor people could collect government checks. It is the kind of populist policy that Thailand is trying to avoid now. Here in Thailand there is no system to milk so the rules can be different.

tell that to the thai hospitals that end up treating indigent farangs

[Hawkman]

and how are they going to separate the good teachers from the bad ones?

Just one sentence - but well to the point. I really don't know. How can you? A degree in education would be the best answer but then you will get NO teachers at language schools or Government schools and poor families will suffer. I think if the MOE, Government, country, parents and students want good teachers there needs to be some sort of proper assessment.

Any Tom, Dick and Harry could say they can teach English, but they can't. I know I keep beating the drum and I have heard some Thai school owners say the same thing, why not have the work permit and visa based on the ability to teach and teaching certificate? Everyone wins. Gets rid of the bad teachers this way and keeps the good ones.

The current system does not work in my opinion, it needs changing. In many countries you don't need a degree to teach TEFL, so why here? Many don't see TEFL as a long career move. Why can't people have more than one career as long as they do a good job at it?

I won't argue that unfortunately there are lots of rubbish teachers and wasters here, however, not all of them are teachers, I include retirees and other expats too.

the difficulty involved makes it easier just to say " get a degree".

Exactly and well said, and true; and hence the problem, though it does get rid of some wasters from applying or trying. But not all people without degrees are wasters.

[AYJAYDEE]

and how are they going to separate the good teachers from the bad ones?

Just one sentence - but well to the point. I really don't know. How can you? A degree in education would be the best answer but then you will get NO teachers at language schools or Government schools and poor families will suffer. I think if the MOE, Government, country, parents and students want good teachers there needs to be some sort of proper assessment.

Any Tom, Dick and Harry could say they can teach English, but they can't. I know I keep beating the drum and I have heard some Thai school owners say the same thing, why not have the work permit and visa based on the ability to teach and teaching certificate? Everyone wins. Gets rid of the bad teachers this way and keeps the good ones.

The current system does not work in my opinion, it needs changing. In many countries you don't need a degree to teach TEFL, so why here? Many don't see TEFL as a long career move. Why can't people have more than one career as long as they do a good job at it?

I won't argue that unfortunately there are lots of rubbish teachers and wasters here, however, not all of them are teachers, I include retirees and other expats too.

the difficulty involved makes it easier just to say " get a degree".

Exactly and well said, and true; and hence the problem, though it does get rid of some wasters from applying or trying. But not all people without degrees are wasters.

obviously the thai government doesnt see it as as big a problem as young farang looking for a soft touch do.

Edited August 22, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[nicolas18]

@ nicolas18 What makes you think Thailand needs cash of western teachers?

What the hell can western teachers on their salary contribute to Thailand? other than genuine Businessmen and genuine Tourists who are in Thailand legally.......then the rest of the people who come and stay are usually pretty poor and the ones Thailand can do without.

Thailand in actual fact is a pretty wealthy country in reality, just because it isn't spent correctly is another matter.

European countries are not developing......but most of them are broke and up to the necks in debt......but they have nice roads and clean streets.

My post was not specifically about teachers, but about visa runners.

To address your other point, I stand corrected. Thailand is indeed a wealthy country, where the minimum wage is 50K/month, with top-notch infrastructure and a generous social security scheme to take care of the needy. To think I was living in the Dubai of the East and I didn't even realize it.

[jspill]

tell that to the thai hospitals that end up treating indigent farangs

'Hospitals in Thailand will often not operate without insurance or cash upfront.' - http://www.bangkoktimesonline.com/will-planning/

Edited August 22, 2014 by jspill

[AYJAYDEE]

tell that to the thai hospitals that end up treating indigent farangs

'Hospitals in Thailand will often not operate without insurance or cash upfront.'

http://www.bangkoktimesonline.com/will-planning/

feel free to document how many are left to die on the hospital steps

[jspill]

feel free to document how many are left to die on the hospital steps

Feel free to document how many farang are a burden to the thai state in public hospitals.

[Hawkman]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Who has the time/resources to monitor a person who possesses no credentials whatsoever?

It does not take any degree of intelligence to get a certificate in TEFL (or any other similar program). But does that make a teacher? Heck no!

I want a person who has taken Child Psychology classes; a person that has demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt that they can complete a university degree (which btw, isn't difficult).

Whether a university educated person, regardless if they studied teaching, psychology or under-water basket weaving, will make a good teach is anyone's guess. However, I'll wager my money these educated people will probably almost always be better at teaching than some retard high-school drop-out.

That is absolute rubbish, you obviously have no experience in seeing teachers with or without degrees teaching. There are good and bad on both sides.

Many people didn't have or lacked the opportunity to undergo a degree when they were younger and chose instead to do their learning later in life. I don't see any logic to your argument. Having a degree in a non-education related field makes zero difference to your ability to teach. You make it sound like anyone who doesn't have a degree is some sort of retard.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Hawkman