Immigration clarifies new regulations for foreigners in Chiang Mai

[BestBitterPhuket]

Why does the Chiang Mai immigration officers work so long hours? Why do they need new staff? The whole system is totally inefficient and outdated. The 90 day face to face check, the lack of online services, the immigration cards for citizens etc, all proof that Thai immigration is stuck in 1970 while other countries have modernized. They need major reforms of the immigration as well.

[The Deerhunter]

Did the man on the far left play for the Lakers? How tall is that guy?

Look up immigration statistics on Google

No need to look up anything. Ask him. He's already up there. (A useless retort to an unhelpful answer to two pointless rhetorical questions.)

Edited August 25, 2014 by The Deerhunter

[Christie Paul]

Over the years I have seen several emerging industries that are initially encouraged and then crushed with bureaucracy.

The jewellery industry, arose and now its in its death rattles.

The film industry really got going but for the last five or more years is stagnating.

The IT business was a late bloomer, but the country attracted a bit of talent and few things started to happen. But its the usual story, a diminishing pool of talent and regulations that seem to "kick in", just when your making some headway. It's not a controversial statement to say that its just an uncompetitive place for the development of these kind of business's.

I've operated companies all over the world. The due diligence and effort required to keep a Thai company legal are horrendous and serve to discourage traders. There are exceptions, but its one of the last places, one would want to incorporate, from a competitive standpoint.

At first I used to think that the authorities must be crazy. Don't they see that they are strangling potential industries? Don't they see that surrounding countries are benefitting from their approach? But this didn't sit with the fact, that many Thais in powerful positions are amongst the most educated and worldly sophisticated people.

It then occurred to me, that perhaps the local oligarchy don't really want these emerging business hubs. They pretend they do, but they don't. Perhaps the development of a mobile, financially independent and educated emerging class of foreigners and locals are not in their interests. Perhaps they reckon they are more secure, if the vast majority of locals are dependant upon benevolence, rural activity and the lowly paid service sector. Certainly massage and related services seem to operate without hindrance.

If one looks at the distribution of wealth and the control of economic activity, it would appear closer to a feudal system than an emerging and competitive economy. And that is how certain sectors of Thai society may wish to keep it.

You are correct. The elite want to keep things just the way they are. No education for the poor and all income streams channelled back to the wealthy. The clearance of all the beach businesses in Phuket recently is a relevant example. It was sold as a crackdown, but in reality the Bangkok elite have long been displeased with Phuket because the money made there was not channelled back to Bangkok. That has been rectified. Phuket is now controlled by Bangkok. And the workaday Thais who were making a few dollars from Tourists on the island have had their humble businesses ripped down with a backhoe.

Pretty sad if you ask me. Whenever I see images of Thai officials with diplomats or representatives from other countries, you have to wonder to what extent they are influencing final policy. My guess is that it's a lot. It's happening everywhere, not just in Thailand.

Indeed.

There is significant international pressure. The West is "bust" and bankers want war, terrorism and every kind of disruption - to cover up their crimes of gutting the economy.

Thailand has to play it cool, on the one hand succumbing to pressure, on the other hand trying to workout who will dominate. It's the BRICS versus the Western oligarchy. And its going to be tough transition. Thailand will try and wangle its way through, hopefully without getting bombed by the US or being disenfranchised by BRICS. In the past they've been quite a nimble at this kind of thing.

[The Deerhunter]

Why does the Chiang Mai immigration officers work so long hours? Why do they need new staff? The whole system is totally inefficient and outdated. The 90 day face to face check, the lack of online services, the immigration cards for citizens etc, all proof that Thai immigration is stuck in 1970 while other countries have modernized. They need major reforms of the immigration as well.

Absolutely! Yes. Yes. Yes. I come from a country which is downsizing public bureaucracy with new technology so fast it makes your head spin. Sure is different to here. New tech would have 1/2 the Thai civil service on "inactive posts" without being caught with hand in cookie jar.

[gemini81]

Why does the Chiang Mai immigration officers work so long hours? Why do they need new staff? The whole system is totally inefficient and outdated. The 90 day face to face check, the lack of online services, the immigration cards for citizens etc, all proof that Thai immigration is stuck in 1970 while other countries have modernized. They need major reforms of the immigration as well.

Absolutely! Yes. Yes. Yes. I come from a country which is downsizing public bureaucracy with new technology so fast it makes your head spin. Sure is different to here. New tech would have 1/2 the Thai civil service on "inactive posts" without being caught with hand in cookie jar.

If they met with immigration from developing and developed countries, these officials would mentally train wreck on the systematic high tech approaches and simple solutions other countries have to such simple things. All of the enormous files and paperwork are ludicrous....the stacks of nonsense we had to provide to get our foreign architects a work permit for instance....

[happysanook]

I saw no mention of regular tourist visas (2 month)... They didn't address this?

[Christie Paul]

...how about something in writing......

...so many foreigners' lives are in limbo with constant changes to already nebulous laws.....

Constant changes what changes, only the last month or so. People need something to worry about

These forums are adequate testament of the general confusion.

Something in writing? I doubt it.

They are leaving all their options open. Regulations that are open to diverse interpretation and that are selectively enforced, when it suits. Verbal announcements that are inconsistent and in a constant state of flux.

I can't hep but think it is intentional.

[dingdongrb]

"We have pressure from serving so many foreigners each day but we try to do our best.” He noted that some officers end up working to 8 p.m. to finish up their paperwork every day. He added that the last ten years has seen a huge growth in the number of foreigners, last year alone the number of foreigners serviced in Chiang Mai grew 4 times but the number of officers and the budget did not grow so much."

Hmmmmm... They are just now coming to this conclusion? It's been a 'rat's nest' and a pain in the arse for many years. That is evident from the queues to the parking available. I hate going into that place anymore.

"Pol Col. Rutphong Sanwanangkum told the Chiang Mai Mail that he has submitted the request for approval of the budget to build a new building on the site of the current one near the Airport, noting he has signed the application and that they have the plans in place and are ready to go but need budget approval. He added that if the budget for next year is approved for the construction they hope to have a new building within two years. There will be a temporary office nearby that will open for Immigration but once the building is done it will have an underground car park and will be able to accommodate the increased numbers more comfortably."

Budget needs approved.... LOL... If there wasn't so much corruption then perhaps some of those $$$ being collected throughout the system might just get put to use for the things they were intended for.

Why not speed up the process by removing the requirement of having a marriage visa be approved by the office in Bangkok? That would save me one trip each year to the office...

[belg]

2014, ... you live here many years with wife and kids, your wife dies, off course, house/land is in her name ... your visa is to expire soon ...

you are greeving over the death of your wife ... but you still have NO RIGHT to stay here and must rush rush to sell the house you paid for and give half to her parents / siblings ...

immigration has a lot of work ? well, did anybody mention automatisation? using an online 90 day report would be very simple to create by anybody with some knowledge of secure webserving applications ...

people who already live here many years and have families and/or carriers ... but still you have to do the yearly BEGGING PAPER show ...

1900 baht for the 15 min paperwork check they ask each farang, easy money, isn't it ?

[northernjohn]

Over the years I have seen several emerging industries that are initially encouraged and then crushed with bureaucracy.

The jewellery industry, arose and now its in its death rattles.

The film industry really got going but for the last five or more years is stagnating.

The IT business was a late bloomer, but the country attracted a bit of talent and few things started to happen. But its the usual story, a diminishing pool of talent and regulations that seem to "kick in", just when your making some headway. It's not a controversial statement to say that its just an uncompetitive place for the development of these kind of business's.

I've operated companies all over the world. The due diligence and effort required to keep a Thai company legal are horrendous and serve to discourage traders. There are exceptions, but its one of the last places, one would want to incorporate, from a competitive standpoint.

At first I used to think that the authorities must be crazy. Don't they see that they are strangling potential industries? Don't they see that surrounding countries are benefitting from their approach? But this didn't sit with the fact, that many Thais in powerful positions are amongst the most educated and worldly sophisticated people.

It then occurred to me, that perhaps the local oligarchy don't really want these emerging business hubs. They pretend they do, but they don't. Perhaps the development of a mobile, financially independent and educated emerging class of foreigners and locals are not in their interests. Perhaps they reckon they are more secure, if the vast majority of locals are dependant upon benevolence, rural activity and the lowly paid service sector. Certainly massage and related services seem to operate without hindrance.

If one looks at the distribution of wealth and the control of economic activity, it would appear closer to a feudal system than an emerging and competitive economy. And that is how certain sectors of Thai society may wish to keep it.

Interesting you have operated companies all over the world and you come to Thailand and dish it. What was your reason for leaving business in all those other countries. Let us not forget that Thailand even though the economy is growing still has a labor shortage. So they must be doing some thing rite.

I am not a business man but it seems strange that big companies like Toyota and Honda would choose to open up business in such a bad atmosphere for business as you describe it.

[Sena Dave]

This Bit

"After the recent surrogate parent issues the Immigration Office now requires that if the parents of a foreign child born in Thailand wish to take the child out of the country they must have a passport from their home country (obtained in Thailand) and the child must travel with the parents and the parents must show both the birth certificate and passport."

My son was born in Thailand in 2001 before I was married to his Mother , he is not eligible for a British passport unless we go to live in the UK for 2 years. Yet again the wording seems open to interpretation , but it seems this could apply to him and me

[chinostar]

"must show both the birth certificate and passport"

Stupid rule, because a passport is issued after submitting a birth certificate, so why drag the birth certificate around unnecessary?

[chinostar]

Honorary consul of Peru. How many Peruvians are in Chiang Mai really?

[northernjohn]

Good to see some of the various National and Thai officials are trying to clarify the visa shambles. However, what is current today may or may not be current tomorrow or some rules and regs will end up with an individualistic spin or interpretation according to each immigration office or front desk official. This causes confusion, uncertainty and disruption to almost every foreigner trying to make a go of things here in Thailand. The end result being that many foreigners are looking at other options in other countries or have already left to enjoy a more welcoming, established and streamlined approach to foreign work, business and retirement.

I was with you right up until you included retirement.

If Retirement is to difficult for some one I suggest they get an agent to do it for them or don't bother coming to Thailand.

I am no good with paper work but I manage to get through it.

For the others I have no idea of how many are leaving for those reasons. All I know for sure 100% is there is a lot more foreigners coming to Chiang Mai to live.

[Sena Dave]

'.....The Parent of a foreign child born in Thailand....." We'll they would only be foreign if you got them a foreign passport I would imagine. Don't mean to be thick but this does not make sense to me. Unless of course they mean you come on holiday with the missus 9 months pregnant and she drops it

[JSixpack]

Good to see some of the various National and Thai officials are trying to clarify the visa shambles. However, what is current today may or may not be current tomorrow or some rules and regs will end up with an individualistic spin or interpretation according to each immigration office or front desk official. This causes confusion, uncertainty and disruption to almost every foreigner trying to make a go of things here in Thailand. The end result being that many foreigners are looking at other options in other countries or have already left to enjoy a more welcoming, established and streamlined approach to foreign work, business and retirement.

I was with you right up until you included retirement.

If Retirement is to difficult for some one I suggest they get an agent to do it for them or don't bother coming to Thailand.

I am no good with paper work but I manage to get through it.

For the others I have no idea of how many are leaving for those reasons. All I know for sure 100% is there is a lot more foreigners coming to Chiang Mai to live.

Yep. We've heard that "killed the goose that laid the golden eggs" cry and everybody's moving to Cambodia nonsense for the past 20 years at least. Should have heard it after they increased the visa fees! OMG!

[JSixpack]

...how about something in writing......

...so many foreigners' lives are in limbo with constant changes to already nebulous laws.....

Constant changes what changes, only the last month or so. People need something to worry about

These forums are adequate testament of the general confusion.

Something in writing? I doubt it.

They are leaving all their options open. Regulations that are open to diverse interpretation and that are selectively enforced, when it suits. Verbal announcements that are inconsistent and in a constant state of flux.

I can't hep but think it is intentional.

Don't know Thais well, do you? Fresh off the boat?

[JSixpack]

Why does the Chiang Mai immigration officers work so long hours? Why do they need new staff? The whole system is totally inefficient and outdated. The 90 day face to face check, the lack of online services, the immigration cards for citizens etc, all proof that Thai immigration is stuck in 1970 while other countries have modernized. They need major reforms of the immigration as well.

Absolutely! Yes. Yes. Yes. I come from a country which is downsizing public bureaucracy with new technology so fast it makes your head spin. Sure is different to here. New tech would have 1/2 the Thai civil service on "inactive posts" without being caught with hand in cookie jar.

If they met with immigration from developing and developed countries, these officials would mentally train wreck on the systematic high tech approaches and simple solutions other countries have to such simple things. All of the enormous files and paperwork are ludicrous....the stacks of nonsense we had to provide to get our foreign architects a work permit for instance....

Yeah, India could teach them a thing or two about streamlined bureaucracy.

[JSixpack]

Over the years I have seen several emerging industries that are initially encouraged and then crushed with bureaucracy.

The jewellery industry, arose and now its in its death rattles.

The film industry really got going but for the last five or more years is stagnating.

The IT business was a late bloomer, but the country attracted a bit of talent and few things started to happen. But its the usual story, a diminishing pool of talent and regulations that seem to "kick in", just when your making some headway. It's not a controversial statement to say that its just an uncompetitive place for the development of these kind of business's.

I've operated companies all over the world. The due diligence and effort required to keep a Thai company legal are horrendous and serve to discourage traders. There are exceptions, but its one of the last places, one would want to incorporate, from a competitive standpoint.

At first I used to think that the authorities must be crazy. Don't they see that they are strangling potential industries? Don't they see that surrounding countries are benefitting from their approach? But this didn't sit with the fact, that many Thais in powerful positions are amongst the most educated and worldly sophisticated people.

It then occurred to me, that perhaps the local oligarchy don't really want these emerging business hubs. They pretend they do, but they don't. Perhaps the development of a mobile, financially independent and educated emerging class of foreigners and locals are not in their interests. Perhaps they reckon they are more secure, if the vast majority of locals are dependant upon benevolence, rural activity and the lowly paid service sector. Certainly massage and related services seem to operate without hindrance.

If one looks at the distribution of wealth and the control of economic activity, it would appear closer to a feudal system than an emerging and competitive economy. And that is how certain sectors of Thai society may wish to keep it.

You are correct. The elite want to keep things just the way they are. No education for the poor and all income streams channelled back to the wealthy. The clearance of all the beach businesses in Phuket recently is a relevant example. It was sold as a crackdown, but in reality the Bangkok elite have long been displeased with Phuket because the money made there was not channelled back to Bangkok. That has been rectified. Phuket is now controlled by Bangkok. And the workaday Thais who were making a few dollars from Tourists on the island have had their humble businesses ripped down with a backhoe.

Pretty sad if you ask me. Whenever I see images of Thai officials with diplomats or representatives from other countries, you have to wonder to what extent they are influencing final policy. My guess is that it's a lot. It's happening everywhere, not just in Thailand.

Why do we never get around to the organization behind it all globally? I refer to none other than The Illuminati.

[northernjohn]

...how about something in writing......

...so many foreigners' lives are in limbo with constant changes to already nebulous laws.....

Constant changes what changes, only the last month or so. People need something to worry about

Seems like a lot of people have short memories. Go to some of the other threads and there is still Thaksin fans out there.

Also People do not realize this government is not the same as the previous one's. They are trying to improve conditions in Thailand and they have the authority to do it. They have learned a lot from previous mistakes.

In cases such as we see here with the various changes in the Visa law implication they have been willing to change their mind they do not stand by a mistake to the bitter end. If it doesn't work they change it.

Will be a lot of changes in the future and they can not make omelets with out breaking an egg. If it turns out the omelets should not have been made they will stop making them. So yes there is going to be uncertainty especially among those who depended on the corrupt officials to make their money.

The only certainty we have is that in the end Thailand will have much better prospects for a brighter future.

[pchansmorn]

They didn't mention anything about Retired Visa's Still wondering if they are going to continue to make us check in every 90 days? And if they will ever change the 1 year visa to a 5 year visa or more? We travel a lot and sometimes it is difficult to get back in 90 days to do you check in.

[northernjohn]

Why does the Chiang Mai immigration officers work so long hours? Why do they need new staff? The whole system is totally inefficient and outdated. The 90 day face to face check, the lack of online services, the immigration cards for citizens etc, all proof that Thai immigration is stuck in 1970 while other countries have modernized. They need major reforms of the immigration as well.

What is a 90 day face to face check. Do they come to your home and look at you?

You are unaware that Chiang Mai has received permission for 14 new staff and is going to modernize their office so they will have room for them.

Talking to the ex last night she tells me that Canada (that is another country) gives you a 30 day tourist visa and that is it you can not jump across the border for 15 minutes and come back and get a new 30 day tourist visa. My having landed immigration status there means nothing now. They have made it more difficult to live there permanently than when I first moved there. Try getting your wife or girl friend into North America. Canada is harder than the states. If you are from there and never been here bring your girl friend or wife over here. No problem welcome here is a 30 day visa.

[northernjohn]

They didn't mention anything about Retired Visa's Still wondering if they are going to continue to make us check in every 90 days? And if they will ever change the 1 year visa to a 5 year visa or more? We travel a lot and sometimes it is difficult to get back in 90 days to do you check in.

You should read the article. It answers your 90 day. For travel a lot well get a multi entry or if in Thailand mail it in.

[Christie Paul]

Over the years I have seen several emerging industries that are initially encouraged and then crushed with bureaucracy.

The jewellery industry, arose and now its in its death rattles.

The film industry really got going but for the last five or more years is stagnating.

The IT business was a late bloomer, but the country attracted a bit of talent and few things started to happen. But its the usual story, a diminishing pool of talent and regulations that seem to "kick in", just when your making some headway. It's not a controversial statement to say that its just an uncompetitive place for the development of these kind of business's.

I've operated companies all over the world. The due diligence and effort required to keep a Thai company legal are horrendous and serve to discourage traders. There are exceptions, but its one of the last places, one would want to incorporate, from a competitive standpoint.

At first I used to think that the authorities must be crazy. Don't they see that they are strangling potential industries? Don't they see that surrounding countries are benefitting from their approach? But this didn't sit with the fact, that many Thais in powerful positions are amongst the most educated and worldly sophisticated people.

It then occurred to me, that perhaps the local oligarchy don't really want these emerging business hubs. They pretend they do, but they don't. Perhaps the development of a mobile, financially independent and educated emerging class of foreigners and locals are not in their interests. Perhaps they reckon they are more secure, if the vast majority of locals are dependant upon benevolence, rural activity and the lowly paid service sector. Certainly massage and related services seem to operate without hindrance.

If one looks at the distribution of wealth and the control of economic activity, it would appear closer to a feudal system than an emerging and competitive economy. And that is how certain sectors of Thai society may wish to keep it.

You are correct. The elite want to keep things just the way they are. No education for the poor and all income streams channelled back to the wealthy. The clearance of all the beach businesses in Phuket recently is a relevant example. It was sold as a crackdown, but in reality the Bangkok elite have long been displeased with Phuket because the money made there was not channelled back to Bangkok. That has been rectified. Phuket is now controlled by Bangkok. And the workaday Thais who were making a few dollars from Tourists on the island have had their humble businesses ripped down with a backhoe.

Pretty sad if you ask me. Whenever I see images of Thai officials with diplomats or representatives from other countries, you have to wonder to what extent they are influencing final policy. My guess is that it's a lot. It's happening everywhere, not just in Thailand.

Why do we never get around to the organization behind it all globally? I refer to none other than The Illuminati.

I think because most folks have only just heard about it - and they have been dumbed down over generations and programmed to believe in all kinds of disempowering things as being normal. There's no knee jerk response that will work - just getting up to speed on how far contemporary man has slid backwards, is too much for most people to comprehend and would take more intellectual rigour than most folks could muster. The Elite think and plan in terms of centuries, the wise in terms of decades and the masses in months if not weeks.

[BoardDWorld]

I'm still waiting for them to get realistic on Marriage/Dependent Non O visas.

Apparently in the past if you had a child with Thai wife and had all your papers in check for the child (entered into the house book and a Thai birth certificate etc). The wives income of more than 40,000 baht /month was enough for the husband to get the 1 year visa.

Of course that isn't the case.

Then we all know what a foreign wife needs for a for a Non-O with a Thai husband, he could be a taxi driver and it wouldn't matter... Doesn't need a child... It's the easiest Non-O visa to get in Thailand.

A genuine young family doesn't need further pressures of large amounts of money to be made available every year. Considering expenses of schooling, repayments on a house and car and all the other living expenses that come into play, it's completely unrealistic.

I'm told not to get my hopes up in expecting any changes, and judging by all the information that has come out lately that has completely skipped marriage visas I guess they were right.

Edited August 25, 2014 by BoardDWorld

[kannot]

Id love to see more use of computers for example in 90 day reporting why not online OR even a skype call with an officer to verify its you etc

[alansiporin]

QUESTION ABOUT 90 DAY REPORT AND LANDLORD RESIDENCE REPORT

I have one year extension to stay based on retirement. I "heard" that when doing 90 day report, the form your landlord completes confirming my residence needs to be provided along with the usual documents. I live In Phuket.

Is it accurate that the landlord form needs to be provided?

Thanks in advance.

[jcisco]

I've operated companies all over the world. The due diligence and effort required to keep a Thai company legal are horrendous and serve to discourage traders. There are exceptions, but its one of the last places, one would want to incorporate, from a competitive standpoint.

At first I used to think that the authorities must be crazy. Don't they see that they are strangling potential industries? Don't they see that surrounding countries are benefitting from their approach? But this didn't sit with the fact, that many Thais in powerful positions are amongst the most educated and worldly sophisticated people.

I would have to agree to some extent with what you are saying. Thailand really does not make it easy to come setup a business and utilize the citizens or infrastructure. They have this huge population and have made what appears no substantial effort to mobilize the workforce which would better suit Thai companies and foreign owned businesses if they could of course actually gain access to them.

And I mean that even right now, how do they expect to compete in the global market for trained and competent people if they do not focus now on getting the education right. A huge natural resource, just being left to waste, and what a waste to the people as well.

As for due diligence and compliance of Thai companies, I wouldn't say they are that bad, they certainly aren't good in terms of efficiency, accessibility or Utility for that matter. It is either a case of departmental silos and definitely a lack of modernization in their methods and information sharing I am sure being a unreliable to non-existent.

And just for fun an act covering the duties of Limited Private company directors.... where is that, Thailand companies that are tax resident for global income. Great, that is a real competitive move. Foreign ownership silliness, entirely missing the point that the companies value to the nation is in its turnover into the local economy which in most companies will dwarf share value by at least an order of magnitude if not several. The FBA is a PIA

Half the legislation is entirely designed to limit economic activity by limited foreign investment and just straight up protecting jobs for locals.

I could go on and on....... and looks like I already did.

[northernjohn]

QUESTION ABOUT 90 DAY REPORT AND LANDLORD RESIDENCE REPORT

I have one year extension to stay based on retirement. I "heard" that when doing 90 day report, the form your landlord completes confirming my residence needs to be provided along with the usual documents. I live In Phuket.

Is it accurate that the landlord form needs to be provided?

Thanks in advance.

I really don't know the answer to that. All I know is that in four years I have never needed it. Could be one of those things that change from office to office and depend on the mood the officer is in that day.

[Tony125]

Oh yeh rules as clear as a brite day ' for a moment ' and then---just a month ago cheif immigration officer in Bangkok stated that the Lifetime ban for 10 year overstay was too harsh so would not be immplimented now we see ' for the moment ' it will be.

And for all the persons on TV who kept telling those young posters that wanted to be Digital Nomads and work online that its against the law you can't ------oh well guess you are wrong "for the moment" anyways so be sure to let those asking know the new rules and you will have to find something elese to complain about.