1400 children sexually exploited in UK town Rotherham: report

[JockPieandBeans]

Over the years It has been reported that the rates of sexual offending by “Asians’ is higher than other ethnic groups, at the same time the majority of victims have been from within the Asian community. Prison sentences for sexual assault by ethnicity as of 2012 are provided at the URL below.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/statistics-on-race-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2012

So far as trends are concerned a starting point could be the table below. Rather than yet another round of posts based solely on opinions, are there later government stats showing increase / decrease by percentile by ethnic group?

5,497 offenders found guilty of sexual offences in 2011 (92.0 per cent) were of a known ethnicity (see Table 4.10). Of these persons:

· 80.9 per cent were White;

· 7.6 per cent were Black;

· 8.7 per cent were Asian;

· The remaining 2.8 per cent were of ‘other’ ethnicity.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/214970/sexual-offending-overview-jan-2013.pdf

Simple 1

Like ALL UK Government stats, I take them with a pinch of salt. The UK Government could not tell you how many people are in the Country, never mind anything else.

Just like the thread title. How many of those crimes are in the STATS ?

Not to labour the point, but most people recognise that the majority of crimes that are commited by the Asian community either go unreported or a discreetly dumbed down.

I have already provided a link that highlights why the crime STATS are a load of crap in the UK,due to changes in the reporting and recording criteria.

[7by7]

When presented with opinions, the prejudiced will argue against them; which is fair enough.

When presented with facts they cannot dispute, they simply refuse to believe them.

Such is the way of the prejudiced.

[7by7]

a Muslim cleric or Mullah was given a 20-year prison sentence and a fine of $26,000 last month for raping a young girl in northern Afghanistan.

Yes indeed, a Muslim cleric leading the way !! His sheep will surely follow.

Blind to the facts as ever. His 'sheep' turned him in to the capital as they feared he would get a lighter sentence if tried locally and the courts in a Muslim country found him guilty and sentenced him.

You should try reading articles before commenting on them.

[JockPieandBeans]

Blind to the facts as ever. His 'sheep' turned him in to the capital as they feared he would get a lighter sentence if tried locally and the courts in a Muslim country found him guilty and sentenced him.

You should try reading articles before commenting on them.

Touche.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice.

[7by7]

Attempts to 'prove' that Asians in general and Muslims in particular are responsible for most rapes in the UK are, of course, based on racist prejudice and have no basis in fact; as Simple 1's figures show.

As will reading the news; too many cases where the perpetrators were white to list here.

But the prejudiced ignore the facts.

And I do read articles and links before commenting on them; perhaps you can show me what I have missed from your links?

Edited November 24, 2014 by 7by7

[JockPieandBeans]

Attempts to 'prove' that Asians in general and Muslims in particular are responsible for most rapes in the UK are, of course, based on racist prejudice and have no basis in fact; as Simple 1's figures show.

As will reading the news; too many cases where the perpetrators were white to list here.

But the prejudiced ignore the facts.

And I do read articles and links before commenting on them; perhaps you can show me what I have missed from your links?

I have never said they are responsible for most rapes. I highlighted a growing trend. it is my belief that that trend is now becoming widespread, because the genie is out the bottle, what was once covered up can no longer be done.

Really. Then you must try harder.

The saga began when rights group Women for Afghan Women intervened in the case to shelter the victim and protect her from family members who were overheard contemplating murdering her, in a so-called “honor killing.” The victim has since been returned to her family, who have made promises not to harm her and who attended the proceedings.

http://time.com/3540767/afghan-cleric-20-year-sentence-rape-of-10-year-old-womens-rights-afghanistan-kabul/

So much for your assertions that his sheep turned him in.

but then your assertions have a habit of not standing up to any sort of scrutiny.

[7by7]

Dear, oh dear; you link to an article with very scanty details and ignore the BBC one I linked to before and which contains far more detail.

The whole BBC article is there for all to read.

[JockPieandBeans]

Dear, oh dear; you link to an article with very scanty details and ignore the BBC one I linked to before and which contains far more detail.

The whole BBC article is there for all to read.

Of course, you were there and have 1st hand knowledge of the whole sequence of events. So you know that the BBC article is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Having worked in the region, I would give the SCANT details in the link I provided far more credence to anything that was written by the BBC.

But hey, I guess you know better.

[7by7]

As usual; you dismiss reports which contradict you.

That is how everyone knows your posts are based on prejudice, not on fact.

[JockPieandBeans]

As usual; you dismiss reports which contradict you.

That is how everyone knows your posts are based on prejudice, not on fact.

Just as you have done with the link I provided.

Based on prejudice not fact ? Well done, lose your argument and resort to trying to smear me..

What a wonderful person you are.

[nontabury]

Attempts to 'prove' that Asians in general and Muslims in particular are responsible for most rapes in the UK are, of course, based on racist prejudice and have no basis in fact; as Simple 1's figures show.

As will reading the news; too many cases where the perpetrators were white to list here.

But the prejudiced ignore the facts.

And I do read articles and links before commenting on them; perhaps you can show me what I have missed from your links?

I don't know if Muslims are responsible for most rapes, doubt it, though as a % of the general population they may be, but again not sure. However I am certain that Muslims are far more likely to target children who are of a different colour or religion, then any other section of the community and let's not forget that a lot of the evil deeds carried out by these Muslims, never reached the courts. There has certainly been many instances were the crimes have been swept under the carpet, remember that latest report on Rotherham, well it was in fact the forth, the first two nearly being treated as state secrets "why". Could this be the reason why only a handful of the Rotherham abusers have so far appeared in court.

[wilcopops]

Attempts to 'prove' that Asians in general and Muslims in particular are responsible for most rapes in the UK are, of course, based on racist prejudice and have no basis in fact; as Simple 1's figures show.

As will reading the news; too many cases where the perpetrators were white to list here.

But the prejudiced ignore the facts.

And I do read articles and links before commenting on them; perhaps you can show me what I have missed from your links?

I don't know if Muslims are responsible for most rapes, doubt it, though as a % of the general population they may be, but again not sure. However I am certain that Muslims are far more likely to target children who are of a different colour or religion, then any other section of the community and let's not forget that a lot of the evil deeds carried out by these Muslims, never reached the courts. There has certainly been many instances were the crimes have been swept under the carpet, remember that latest report on Rotherham, well it was in fact the forth, the first two nearly being treated as state secrets "why". Could this be the reason why only a handful of the Rotherham abusers have so far appeared in court.

Utter tripe - this is a case of bad local government not Muslims - of course anyone with any knowledge of history will know that statistically the Christians have led the world in atrocities for centuries - but contrary to racist belief this is to do with neither ethnicity nor religion

[thaibeachlovers]

For a brief view on the Muslim attitude to women, see Attitudes towards women. Certainly the men of Pakistani heritage I know do not consider women beneath them and the women of the same heritage would fight tooth and nail anyone who did!

This, though, is interesting: It is a culture of child sexualisation, not Pakistani attitudes, that puts girls at risk

On the BBC news a representative from the Pakistani community condemned these abuse cases. They were particularly evil, he said, because they had a racial element. Why? Having sex with a child is a ninth-circle-of-hell sort of offence anyway – does it make any difference if it’s racially motivated? If these girls had been Pakistani would the equality Gestapo have shrugged and said “well, at least there wasn’t a racial element”?

Excellent question; whether or not one believes there was a racial element.

The people who think that only Pakistani men abuse or organise the mass abuse of children have obviously not been paying attention to the news.

'I watched Tory MP MURDER a boy during depraved Westminster VIP party' for example.

Certainly the men of Pakistani heritage I know do not consider women beneath them and the women of the same heritage would fight tooth and nail anyone who did!

Then they must be against the Muslim religion as it is laid down in Islamic law that women are worth less than men.

[nontabury]

Attempts to 'prove' that Asians in general and Muslims in particular are responsible for most rapes in the UK are, of course, based on racist prejudice and have no basis in fact; as Simple 1's figures show.

As will reading the news; too many cases where the perpetrators were white to list here.

But the prejudiced ignore the facts.

And I do read articles and links before commenting on them; perhaps you can show me what I have missed from your links?

I don't know if Muslims are responsible for most rapes, doubt it, though as a % of the general population they may be, but again not sure. However I am certain that Muslims are far more likely to target children who are of a different colour or religion, then any other section of the community and let's not forget that a lot of the evil deeds carried out by these Muslims, never reached the courts. There has certainly been many instances were the crimes have been swept under the carpet, remember that latest report on Rotherham, well it was in fact the forth, the first two nearly being treated as state secrets "why". Could this be the reason why only a handful of the Rotherham abusers have so far appeared in court.

Utter tripe - this is a case of bad local government not Muslims - of course anyone with any knowledge of history will know that statistically the Christians have led the world in atrocities for centuries - but contrary to racist belief this is to do with neither ethnicity nor religion

Sorry it's you talking tripe. Those Muslim men in Rotherham and other towns purposely targeted white none muslim children. True it was not helped by bad local government( I say this as an ex-employee of both Rotherham rural district council and Rotherham metropolitan council) and the police, they preferred to stick their heads in the ground and pretend that everything was OK, same as some posters HERE, Can you explain to me why the first two official inquiries were kept secret from the general public and again why have only a handful of these evil animals seen the inside of a prison cell?. Remember 1400 children were abused in Rotherham, some as young as 11yrs old were gang banged, but have they been charged "NO". These abuses committed by Some Muslim men resulted in approximately 150 pregnancies, and as I previously stated one young girl was forced by her Abuser to have an abortion when she became pregnant the first time, however as a GOOD Muslim man he allowed her to have the child from her second pregnancy, but only after she agreed to have the child raised as a Muslim.

If my knowledge of what I know went on in Rotherham leads you to think I'm a racist, so be it, far better than to be a naive fool.

[7by7]

For a brief view on the Muslim attitude to women, see Attitudes towards women. Certainly the men of Pakistani heritage I know do not consider women beneath them and the women of the same heritage would fight tooth and nail anyone who did!

This, though, is interesting: It is a culture of child sexualisation, not Pakistani attitudes, that puts girls at risk

On the BBC news a representative from the Pakistani community condemned these abuse cases. They were particularly evil, he said, because they had a racial element. Why? Having sex with a child is a ninth-circle-of-hell sort of offence anyway – does it make any difference if it’s racially motivated? If these girls had been Pakistani would the equality Gestapo have shrugged and said “well, at least there wasn’t a racial element”?

Excellent question; whether or not one believes there was a racial element.

The people who think that only Pakistani men abuse or organise the mass abuse of children have obviously not been paying attention to the news.

'I watched Tory MP MURDER a boy during depraved Westminster VIP party' for example.

Certainly the men of Pakistani heritage I know do not consider women beneath them and the women of the same heritage would fight tooth and nail anyone who did!

Then they must be against the Muslim religion as it is laid down in Islamic law that women are worth less than men.

Maybe you should read the first link in the post of mine which you quoted!

[7by7]

Did these vile men in Rotherham and elsewhere deliberately target only white girls; or was it more a case of opportunity?

An outsider's view from The New York Times: In Torrent of Rapes in Britain, an Uncomfortable Focus on Race and Ethnicity

White men are still the largest group at 49 percent of known offenders in this category, according to a 2012 study by the Office of the Children’s Commissioner, which identified 2,409 victims over a 14-month period across England even before the Rotherham report was published. But at 33 percent, “Asian men” — most commonly referring to Pakistanis, Indians, Bangladeshis and Afghans — were disproportionately represented, given that they represent just over 7 percent of the population.

One reason, officials, scholars and community workers suggest, is practical rather than cultural: Nighttime industries like taxi-driving and takeout restaurants have been at the heart of many grooming networks, offering points of contact with vulnerable girls far away from parental supervision.

Pakistanis work in disproportionate numbers in both. In the Rochdale case, eight of the nine perpetrators drove taxis or worked at two takeout restaurants. (One taxi company in Rochdale said it now provides white drivers on request.)

Has the Muslim community tried to defend these men, or condemned them?

VIDEO: Muslim protest against Rotherham child abuse held ‘without incident’

These monsters do not only target white girls, though.

Beyond Rotherham: Muslims are also silent victims of sexual abuse

The UK Muslim Women’s Network published a report in September 2013 that looked into cases of sexual exploitation of Asian girls and women. It highlighted that they were most vulnerable to men from their own communities who were conscious of cultural norms, using them to manipulate victims into not reporting their abuse.

None of which, of course, will convince those whose aim is to use this appalling case, and others, to push their hate filled agenda that most Muslim men are by nature monsters who prey on young white girls at any and all opportunities.

It is noticeable, but not surprising, that many of those crying outrage at cases where the abusers have been Asian and Muslim have been completely silent when the abusers have been white non Muslims!

[JockPieandBeans]

None of which, of course, will convince those whose aim is to use this appalling case, and others, to push their hate filled agenda that most Muslim men are by nature monsters who prey on young white girls at any and all opportunities.

It is noticeable, but not surprising, that many of those crying outrage at cases where the abusers have been Asian and Muslim have been completely silent when the abusers have been white non Muslims!

Well lets have a look then.

White men are still the largest group at 49 percent of known offenders in this category, according to a 2012 study by the Office of the Children’s Commissioner, which identified 2,409 victims over a 14-month period across England even before the Rotherham report was published. But at 33 percent, “Asian men”

A 2012 study which identified 49% of known offenders as white. Really should not be a surprise as the UK is still a predominently a white Country.

However 33% of known offences were carried out by Asian Men. 33% carried out by 7% of the population ?

2012 when there was still a culture of sweep under the carpet.

The UK Muslim Women’s Network published a report in September 2013 that looked into cases of sexual exploitation of Asian girls and women. It highlighted that they were most vulnerable to men from their own communities who were conscious of cultural norms, using them to manipulate victims into not reporting their abuse.

We all know why. So actually your % of sexual crimes carried out by Asian men is nowhere near 33% and will be much higher.

None of which, of course, will convince those whose aim is to use this appalling case, and others, to push their hate filled agenda that most Muslim men are by nature monsters who prey on young white girls at any and all opportunities.

Please provide links to the hordes of " White Gangs " that are targeting Asian women.

You are so blinded that you cannot see that the links that YOU provide blows your argument clean out the water.

[Mosha]

As a Tyke, I'd take a base ball bat to them if the victims were one if my kids. Cos as we know in know culturally enriched areas. The police are <deleted> useless. As the police tell folks in my old home town "Please don't make a fuss."

[7by7]

JockPieandBeans;

As usual, your cherry picking small parts out of context and ignoring the rest shows that you have no interest in facts.

Cases of white sexual predators, such as that in Westminster, preying on young victims, boys and girls, and the appalling lack of action by the authorities have been all over the news; did you miss them?

More lilely you don't care as they disprove your theory that this is a crime only perpetrated by Muslims!

[JockPieandBeans]

JockPieandBeans;

As usual, your cherry picking small parts out of context and ignoring the rest shows that you have no interest in facts.

Cases of white sexual predators, such as that in Westminster, preying on young victims, boys and girls, and the appalling lack of action by the authorities have been all over the news; did you miss them?

You provided the links and information.

I only pointed out the flaws in the way you presented it.

Westminster is an ongoing case with nothing yet being proven. For your info, I have no doubt in my own mind that it probably did happen. You are barking up the wrong tree with that one. I have no time for any politician and would gladly see most of them swing from gallows. Rape or no rape.

For what its worth I also believe that the Westmonster case will come to any definitive conclusion. After all, they are all in together. But no doubt, as they are so good at telling us, lessons will be learned.

More lilely you don't care as they disprove your theory that this is a crime only perpetrated by Muslims!

Where have I ever said that ? I would happily see all rapist and murderers being given the death sentence where there is irrefutable evidence that they had committed the crime. Regardless of what colour or religion they were.

In the case of child abusers, I would simply hand them over to the parent and relatives of the victim to do as they saw fit with the b@stards.

But the liberal brigade would be up in arms.

Edited November 25, 2014 by JockPieandBeans

[nontabury]

Did these vile men in Rotherham and elsewhere deliberately target only white girls; or was it more a case of opportunity?

An outsider's view from The New York Times: In Torrent of Rapes in Britain, an Uncomfortable Focus on Race and Ethnicity

White men are still the largest group at 49 percent of known offenders in this category, according to a 2012 study by the Office of the Children’s Commissioner, which identified 2,409 victims over a 14-month period across England even before the Rotherham report was published. But at 33 percent, “Asian men” — most commonly referring to Pakistanis, Indians, Bangladeshis and Afghans — were disproportionately represented, given that they represent just over 7 percent of the population.

One reason, officials, scholars and community workers suggest, is practical rather than cultural: Nighttime industries like taxi-driving and takeout restaurants have been at the heart of many grooming networks, offering points of contact with vulnerable girls far away from parental supervision.

Pakistanis work in disproportionate numbers in both. In the Rochdale case, eight of the nine perpetrators drove taxis or worked at two takeout restaurants. (One taxi company in Rochdale said it now provides white drivers on request.)

Has the Muslim community tried to defend these men, or condemned them?

VIDEO: Muslim protest against Rotherham child abuse held ‘without incident’

These monsters do not only target white girls, though.

Beyond Rotherham: Muslims are also silent victims of sexual abuse

The UK Muslim Women’s Network published a report in September 2013 that looked into cases of sexual exploitation of Asian girls and women. It highlighted that they were most vulnerable to men from their own communities who were conscious of cultural norms, using them to manipulate victims into not reporting their abuse.

None of which, of course, will convince those whose aim is to use this appalling case, and others, to push their hate filled agenda that most Muslim men are by nature monsters who prey on young white girls at any and all opportunities.

It is noticeable, but not surprising, that many of those crying outrage at cases where the abusers have been Asian and Muslim have been completely silent when the abusers have been white non Muslims!

Thank you for providing the link from the Sheffield Star, Yet even this article was slightly slanted, first it said that Hundreds of people had taken part, later in the article it mentioned about 200.

Nevertheless Some Muslims have spoken out about these crimes on young children, including

Muhbeen Hussain from the Rotherham Muslim youth group, who has acknowledged that those animals who committed these crimes against young children, had specifically targeting white none Muslim children, so I suppose in your reasoning he most also be a racialist.

A few years ago, we had the scandal of Roman Catholic priest abusing children, this was naturally condemned by the none Catholics, yet no body resorted to accusing those people for being anti-catholic, yet when people condemn the Muslim community for doing the same thing,

All the PC brigade come out accusing people of being racialist, is it any wonder that the word racialist is now taking on a different meaning.

[ravip]

Many are too busy bashing the Thais & the undeveloped, 3rd world, Asian countries.

They are blind to whats happening in their own back yards.

Shame, shame.

[7by7]

I see that, yet again, those with an agenda are misrepresenting what I have posted; not surprising.

I have never said that saying gangs of Muslim men have raped children is racist.

What I have said is that saying these evil men committed this crime because they are Asian or because they are Muslim is racist. Particularly as many who say this tend to stay silent on this most horrendous crime when it is committed by white, non Muslims.

Anyone who still has problems understanding that; your problem, not mine. Maybe some English lessons would help.

[MJP]

A flame post has been removed.

[JockPieandBeans]

What I have said is that saying these evil men committed this crime because they are Asian or because they are Muslim is racist. Particularly as many who say this tend to stay silent on this most horrendous crime when it is committed by white, non Muslims.

The title of the topic is about sexual abuse scandal that has come to light in Rotherham, England.

The perpetrators of that scandal were.

1. Muslims.

2. Asian men primarily of Pakistani origin.

And you are calling anyone who says so a racist ?

Nothing racist in telling the truth.

That old chestnut just isn't going to wash anymore. The race card is disappearing faster than rats from a sinking ship.

If the cap fits, wear it. Sometimes the truth hurts.

[7by7]

You obviously failed to understand my previous post; but I cannot see how I can put it any simpler for you.

[JockPieandBeans]

You obviously failed to understand my previous post; but I cannot see how I can put it any simpler for you.

I understood perfectly.

They committed the crimes and they fall under both categories of being Asian and Muslim.

To say so does not make you racist.

If that offends you. Too bad.

[JockPieandBeans]

A few extracts from the Independent Enquiry

No one knows the true scale of child sexual exploitation (CSE) in Rotherham over the years. Our

conservative estimate is that approximately 1400 children were sexually exploited over the full

Inquiry period, from 1997 to 2013.

1400 being a conservative estimate.

They were raped by multiple perpetrators, trafficked to other

towns and cities in the north of England, abducted, beaten, and intimidated. There were examples

of children who had been doused in petrol and threatened with being set alight, threatened with

guns, made to witness brutally violent rapes and threatened they would be next if they told anyone.

Girls as young as 11 were raped by large numbers of male perpetrators.

Printable words fail me.

By far the majority of perpetrators were described as 'Asian' by victims, yet throughout the entire

period, councillors did not engage directly with the Pakistani-heritage community to discuss how

best they could jointly address the issue. Some councillors seemed to think it was a one-off problem,

which they hoped would go away. Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the

ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist; others remembered clear direction

from their managers not to do so.

I think this paragraph says everything that is wrong with multicultural Britain.

Full report here

http://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/1407/independent_inquiry_cse_in_rotherham

Burn in hell b@stards.

[thaibeachlovers]

For a brief view on the Muslim attitude to women, see Attitudes towards women. Certainly the men of Pakistani heritage I know do not consider women beneath them and the women of the same heritage would fight tooth and nail anyone who did!

This, though, is interesting: It is a culture of child sexualisation, not Pakistani attitudes, that puts girls at risk

On the BBC news a representative from the Pakistani community condemned these abuse cases. They were particularly evil, he said, because they had a racial element. Why? Having sex with a child is a ninth-circle-of-hell sort of offence anyway – does it make any difference if it’s racially motivated? If these girls had been Pakistani would the equality Gestapo have shrugged and said “well, at least there wasn’t a racial element”?

Excellent question; whether or not one believes there was a racial element.

The people who think that only Pakistani men abuse or organise the mass abuse of children have obviously not been paying attention to the news.

'I watched Tory MP MURDER a boy during depraved Westminster VIP party' for example.

Certainly the men of Pakistani heritage I know do not consider women beneath them and the women of the same heritage would fight tooth and nail anyone who did!

Then they must be against the Muslim religion as it is laid down in Islamic law that women are worth less than men.

Maybe you should read the first link in the post of mine which you quoted!

Men are appointed guardians over women

Yeah, that's equality for sure

You fail to mention that if a woman is raped, she needs 4 witnesses to prove the case against the man, or that under Islamic law, a female inherits less than a male. Is that respect for women as individuals?

[simple1]

Men are appointed guardians over women

Yeah, that's equality for sure

You fail to mention that if a woman is raped, she needs 4 witnesses to prove the case against the man, or that under Islamic law, a female inherits less than a male. Is that respect for women as individuals?

Posts removed to enable reply.

It is the true 4 witnesses are required for rape cases in some Islamic countries. There is progress, albeit very slow, that rape laws for proof are being amended in other Islamic countries e.g. to come under Civil Law, rather than Sharia Criminal Law. As you can guess the governments pushing for changes are being fought by the Islamic conservatives. For the governments to remain in power & to reduce encouragement for civil unrest by the hardliners compromises are made (e.g. 2 instead of 4 witnesses) or the laws do not actually achieve meaningful implementation.

Islam introduced inheritance laws for women centuries before Western countries. As we know the Koran / Sharia Law is considered the Word of God and is immutable and has not moved towards more enlightened interpretation. There are nascent movements within the Islamic world to modernise Islamic Law and interpretation of the Koran, including refuting abrogation, these efforts are fought 'tooth and nail' by the hardliners.

In case anyone is interested the degrees to which Sharia civil and criminal law has been applied in Islamic majority countries is at the URL below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_sharia_law_by_country