Debt

[hotsoup]

Simple question

Simple answer?

Is the husband of a Thai wife liable for the debts of the wife incurred after marriage?

[Costas2008]

To my knowledge, he is.

[96tehtarp]

Yes.

edit: Yes, excluding any debts she had prior to marriage.

Edited August 31, 2014 by 96tehtarp

[Spoonman]

After Marriage = Divorced ?

[96tehtarp]

After Marriage = Divorced ?

Debts are common liabilities even during marriage. After divorce the husband would receive his 50% share of common property and liabilities during the legal proceeding unless there was a prenuptial agreement made prior to the marriage which specified otherwise.

I'm not sure if the question involves what could happen if one marries a woman who is already heavily indebted.

Edited August 31, 2014 by 96tehtarp

[daveAustin]

If by after marriage you mean after the wedding, then yeppers

[Gecko123]

I am assuming that the OP's question is whether one spouse is liable for the other spouse's debts which were incurred during the marriage. The answer is not a simple yes/no answer.

Section 1490 of Chapter IV "Property of Husband and Wife" of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code reads:

"Debts that both spouses are jointly liable to perform, shall include the following debts incurred by either spouse during marriage:

(1) debts incurred in connection with management of household affairs and providing for the necessaries of the family, or for maintenance, medical expenses of the household and for the proper education of the children;

(2) debts incurred in connection with the Sin Somros; (this means debts incurred in connection with marital property)

(3) debts incurred in connection with a business carried on by the spouses in common;

(4) debts incurred by either spouse only for his or her benefit but ratified by the other."

Short answer: If one spouse incurs a debt during the marriage without the knowledge of the other spouse for a purpose which did not benefit the household or a mutually operated business, the spouse who did not incur the debt may not be liable for these debts.

[Spoonman]

After Marriage = Divorced ?

Debts are common liabilities even during marriage. After divorce the husband would receive his 50% share of common property and liabilities during the legal proceeding unless there was a prenuptial agreement made prior to the marriage which specified otherwise.

I'm not sure if the question involves what could happen if one marries a woman who is already heavily indebted.

I was asking if by "after marriage" the OP was talking about being divorced.

In a nut shell any debt accumulated during the marriage both partners are liable for 50% each upon divorce, any debt accumulated by either partner before of "after" marriage is their own debt.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Spoonman

[96tehtarp]

I am assuming that the OP's question is whether one spouse is liable for the other spouse's debts which were incurred during the marriage. The answer is not a simple yes/no answer.

Section 1490 of Chapter IV "Property of Husband and Wife" of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code reads:

"Debts that both spouses are jointly liable to perform, shall include the following debts incurred by either spouse during marriage:

(1) debts incurred in connection with management of household affairs and providing for the necessaries of the family, or for maintenance, medical expenses of the household and for the proper education of the children;

(2) debts incurred in connection with the Sin Somros; (this means debts incurred in connection with marital property)

(3) debts incurred in connection with a business carried on by the spouses in common;

(4) debts incurred by either spouse only for his or her benefit but ratified by the other."

Short answer: If one spouse incurs a debt during the marriage without the knowledge of the other spouse for a purpose which did not benefit the household or a mutually operated business, the spouse who did not incur the debt may not be liable for these debts.

Good contribution Gecko123.

Within the Thai legal system, on which party would the burden of proof be placed to show either (1) household affairs or (2) no ratification? Who decides? It would be good to know this. There probably is no yes/no answer to this either.

[Gecko123]

After Marriage = Divorced ?

Debts are common liabilities even during marriage. After divorce the husband would receive his 50% share of common property and liabilities during the legal proceeding unless there was a prenuptial agreement made prior to the marriage which specified otherwise.

I'm not sure if the question involves what could happen if one marries a woman who is already heavily indebted.

I was asking if by "after marriage" the OP was talking about being divorced.

In a nut shell any debt accumulated during the marriage both partners are liable for 50% each upon divorce, any debt accumulated by either partner before of "after" marriage is their own debt.

Please see post # 7 which may be helpful.

I also want to post something about what constitutes marital property in Thailand. Many people mistakenly believe that all property purchased during the marriage is automatically marital property, and if you get a divorce, all that property has to be split 50/50. This is 100% untrue!

This misunderstanding (shared by many Thai lawyers) comes from how the law is worded. The law defines marital property as anything which the couple "gets" or "obtains" during the marriage. The verb is actually "dai" or "ได้" But what exactly "gets" or "obtains" means isn't immediately clear. The marital property law actually contains two definitions; one for "marital property" and one for "personal property belonging to one spouse." In order to understand how marriage property law works in Thailand, you have to understand the definition of both "marital property" and "personal property."

Personal property is defined in Section 1471 of the civil code. It reads:

Sin Suan Tua ( personal property) consists of:

(1) property belonging to either spouse before marriage;

(2) property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for station in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse;

(3) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift;

(4) Khongman (engagement gifts given to one spouse)

Section 1472. As regards the Sin Suan Tua, if it has been exchanged to other property, other property has been brought or money has been acquired from selling it, such other property or the money acquired shall be Sin Suan Tua. (This sentence means that if you take money you owned before marriage and purchase property with that money (be it a house, land, car, whatever) during the marriage, and subsequently get a divorce, that property belongs to you.)

Where the Sin Sua Tua has been totally or partly destroyed but replaced by other property or money, such other property or money shall be Sin Suan Tua.

The law also states that in the case of doubt as to whether a property is Sin Somros or not it shall be presumed to be Sin Somros.

I hope this helps everyone out there.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Gecko123

[Gecko123]

Good contribution Gecko123.

Within the Thai legal system, on which party would the burden of proof be placed to show either (1) household affairs or (2) no ratification? Who decides? It would be good to know this. There probably is no yes/no answer to this either.

The burden of proof would probably fall on the party trying to avoid the liability.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Gecko123

[Spoonman]

After Marriage = Divorced ?

Debts are common liabilities even during marriage. After divorce the husband would receive his 50% share of common property and liabilities during the legal proceeding unless there was a prenuptial agreement made prior to the marriage which specified otherwise.

I'm not sure if the question involves what could happen if one marries a woman who is already heavily indebted.

I was asking if by "after marriage" the OP was talking about being divorced.

In a nut shell any debt accumulated during the marriage both partners are liable for 50% each upon divorce, any debt accumulated by either partner before of "after" marriage is their own debt.

Please see post # 7 which may be helpful.

"In a nut shell" = generally. which also implies there are exceptions.

Thank you for outlining the exceptions.

[Beetlejuice]

Yes and no.

In layman`s terms:

If a wife incurs loans solely for her own purposes, for example: vehicles in her name, land and property in her name, businesses, clothes, bank loans, credit card debts and so on, than the wife is liable for those debts and no one else unless another party acted as a guarantor. For example: even if a matrimonial home is bought legitimately by a loan being paid back with the Thai wife’s money, the creditors can still make claim to assets, land and property in the wife’s name to pay back the loan, whether this affects her husband or not.

If any loans are taken out in a Thai wife’s name for the purchase of anything that is in joints names, for example: a car is registered in both a wife’s and a husband’s name or only in a husband’s name, all parties named on the vehicle are liable for the loan. Even if a vehicle that has a loan on it is sold on to anyone that is unaware of the loan, if the loan becomes defaulted and the debtors are unable to pay it back, then the loan company can seize back the vehicle from the new owner.

If a farang husband uses his Thai wife as a means to take out loans for the purchase of anything as a front to hide the farang husband’s ownership of anything that under Thai law he is not entitled to own, such as businesses, land and property and the loan payments become defaulted, the farang husband would have to prove that the loan payments were made with his Thai wife’s funds and he has no associations for whatever was the purposes of the loan. If in the circumstance that the farang husband is proven to had used his Thai wife to front the ownership of a business or land and property on his behalf, then the farang husband could be held accountable to pay back the loans plus any businesses, land and property involved be either confiscated by the loan company or the Government. The authorities are well aware of these cons and tricks of using Thai up front names to hide the farangs illegal ownerships of businesses, land and real estate. And I’m afraid this ploy no longer works in Thailand.

The above pertains to loans obtained by Thai wives during and if the marriage ends in separation or divorce.

[robert888d]

T.I.T. This is Thailand. If the husband is a Farang the answer is YES.

Edited September 1, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed again. Please stop using bold font when posting.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

And the real answer,

She is responsible for her own debts, if she doesn't have enough money to pay her debts from her own assets (money or property she owned before marriage, or anything she inherits at any time), then any joint assets become liable (stuff they bought after marriage using shared money).

He gets to keep his assets (from before the marriage or anything he inherits) no matter what.

[SOTIRIOS]

...duhh...she just refinances her debt after marriage...presto.......you owe half......

...do you really think she married for love.....

[metisdead]

An inflammatory troll post has been removed as well as a reply.

[GOLDBUGGY]

If you mean gambling debts you did not know about, then "No".

If you mean a motorbike to drive around in to pick up the kids, then "Yes".