British activist braces for Thai libel trial

[Alwyn]

The result of this case will profoundly affect the way I think about the present government one way or the other.

It will probably impact the way a lot of countries think about the new "government" too. This will probably be fairly high profile in Finland and no doubt Al Jazeera will make the most of it too.

[binjalin]

guy's a hero

[tookwan cottage]

At least Thailand is courageous enough to deal with such matters on its own turf. Meanwhile, wealthy Western nations "outsource," so that they can continue with their delusional lives: "Exploitation is ay okay, as long as I don't need to see it, and it occurs outside my own country—just let me enjoy the money, as I don't give a hoot how it is generated. Toddlers can work 24/7 for all I care—just SHOW ME THE MONEY"

Edited August 31, 2014 by tookwan cottage

[templedog]

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The result of this case will profoundly affect the way I think about the present government one way or the other.

Perfectly put - are they really wanting to drag Thailand into the modern world or are they just slaves to a wealthy and powerful elite?

Snig27, I think we all know the answer to that. I can imagine the judge during the trial....PAID.

[tookwan cottage]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The result of this case will profoundly affect the way I think about the present government one way or the other.

Perfectly put - are they really wanting to drag Thailand into the modern world or are they just slaves to a wealthy and powerful elite?

Snig27, I think we all know the answer to that. I can imagine the judge during the trial....PAID.

Do all of you "freedom fighters" take a stand against corruption and injustice throughout the world, or have you become obsessed with the Thai system for some unknown reason.

[cooked]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The result of this case will profoundly affect the way I think about the present government one way or the other.

Perfectly put - are they really wanting to drag Thailand into the modern world or are they just slaves to a wealthy and powerful elite?

Snig27, I think we all know the answer to that. I can imagine the judge during the trial....PAID.

Do all of you "freedom fighters" take a stand against corruption and injustice throughout the world, or have you become obsessed with the Thai system for some unknown reason.

What a weird posting. I don't know much about other countries' problems, and this is something that may well affect our every day lives. Is that what you call being obsessed with the Thai system? Not obsessed but very much interested and after a year or two here, feeling that I have a right to speak about Thailand.

[cloudhopper]

Well it will be interesting to see what evidence for his allegations he presents at trial. I am not opposed to anti-defamation laws in general but unfortunately here in Thailand the truth of what has been alleged is not a defense, it is the intent to defame that matters.

[soalbundy]

Doesn't say just when the case was brought to the court but apparently the report is over a year old so the charge could well have been laid before the army took over.

Just what Govt withdrew his passport is also unclear but I don't see how any Govt can withdraw someone's passport in the case of what should be a civil matter, IE a company saying they have been slandered.

However I suppose the company complained to whoever was in Govt at the time that the country name had been blackened and it was taken seriously by some civil servant or politician.

I can think of a host of others on far more serious matters deserving of having their passports taken from them.

Seeking 10 millionB from whom?

How can they, whoever they are, appropriate his passport, when he is not ' convicted' of anything? I think he is a twit to stay here, bur I admire the courage of his convictions. Don't suppose the Democratic Party are losing any sleep over this?

What It has to do with the Dem party I don't know but there is always someone has to be in for a cheap shot.

What is our Great British Embassy doing about his passport being revoked on a civil matter, about someone speaking the truth ? '"We are providing consular help in this trying time'' would be the normal response, ie. nothing,sorry mate you're not on our gin and tonic list.

[kmj]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The result of this case will profoundly affect the way I think about the present government one way or the other.

Perfectly put - are they really wanting to drag Thailand into the modern world or are they just slaves to a wealthy and powerful elite?

Snig27, I think we all know the answer to that. I can imagine the judge during the trial....PAID.

Do all of you "freedom fighters" take a stand against corruption and injustice throughout the world, or have you become obsessed with the Thai system for some unknown reason.

You may want to check, but its a thai forum...

[Dogmatix]

when people/companies use the antiquated thai laws to silence anyone telling the truth about them we really have to wonder, in any other country when you tell the truth you are respected but here if you tell the truth and someone loses face or worse still, money, they take you to court. Until such time that the law backs up the honest people and not just the rich this country can never improve. The courts need to be able to base their decisions on actual facts and the truth, not on how much it cost someone to have the truth about them exposed. Corruption is the reason it is till ongoing and this needs to be stopped, ethics need to be implemented and the guilty parties instigating these trumped up charges made to face the law themselves, this case will show the world what Thailand really stands for, a wrong decision could cause real problems for all thai companies and the country itself.

Getting rid of the criminal libel law is essential to reduce corruption. Media self censor due to this law and journalists are hung out to dry by their employers who usually do a deal with the plaintiff to avoid prosecution and let their reporters face the music alone.

Corruption will not be revealed and dealt with without whistle blowers which is why corrupt politicians always support this law.

[phanangpete]

At last a great case looming which will reveal the Thai way of doing things , they think that scare tactics , towards Andy Hall will work, we will to see what the Thai Court's ruling is.

If it rules in his favour they will be made to look like fools in the world media, if he loses again the case will be highly profiled and i doubt he will be given time to serve.

I applaud Hall for holding his ground, he is obviously confident in the outcome, if the Court listens to his evidence.

[laobali]

Another sad (moronic) day for Thailand . . . grow up please . . . the truth hurts I know, but suck it up . . . face is not everything . . .

But it still is. It's going to take more than a new government to change it.

[rickirs]

Lest we not forget that two Phuketwan journalists Alan Morison and Chutima Sidasathian who are facing a Royal Thai Navy defamation lawsuit and violation of the Computer Crimes Act over mistreatment of Muslim Rohingyas. The Navy was said to also be preparing lawsuit against the Reuters news agency. Reuters published a story about the persecution suffered by the Rohingyas with assistance from Alan and Chutima and received a Pulitzer Prize for the article.

According to Alan:

- “The paragraph we are being sued over is actually a paragraph from a Reuters Pulitzer Prize winning article,”

- “The paragraph has actually been reproduced in four or five other news outlets in Thailand but we seem to be the only ones charged so far.”

- “The paragraph doesn’t mention the Royal Thai Navy, or at least it didn’t in the original English [version] we published,”

- “It’s really odd in the Thai translation of the paragraph we published, the Royal Thai Navy is mentioned three times.”

With Thailand under martial law with the NCPO (formely known as the Junta) holding absolute powerover the executive, legislative, and judicia branches of government, avoiding guilty verdicts will be challenging for these reporters.

[ChrisY1]

http://www.freshfruitportal.com/2013/08/28/thai-govt-claims-natural-fruit-company-complied-with-labor-laws/?country=thailand

Pretty damning report for Andy Hall.........

[jspill]

Do all of you "freedom fighters" take a stand against corruption and injustice throughout the world, or have you become obsessed with the Thai system for some unknown reason.

If someone doesn't actively protest every injustice, they aren't allowed to comment on any particular one? There are only so many hours in the day.

[wwest5829]

Forget the principles and application of law that migh tbe applied elsewehere.

i would have to suggest it will be much simpler here, if found Guilty it means he was wrong and if Not Guilty he was right and that cannot be the case.

I am sorry to see Thailand exposing itself to international ridicule in not conforming to a more accepted concept of libel and slander law but ...if this is to be pursued, I hope that, if Thailand's courts find him having done wrong to expose corruption, the case would then be appealed to the World Court in the Netherlands. If it is true, it is not open to punishment by any court, Thailand not excepted.

[emilymat]

Do all of you "freedom fighters" take a stand against corruption and injustice throughout the world, or have you become obsessed with the Thai system for some unknown reason.

If someone doesn't actively protest every injustice, they aren't allowed to comment on any particular one? There are only so many hours in the day.

When the military takeover took place, there were many on this forum who felt very uncomfortable, and still do - including myself. At the same time there were also many - it seemed to me like a majority - who applauded the general and who still do. That debate however has finished - we are where we are.

Why this issue is important is for the reasons set out by many posters. That is, we will now see a tangible sign of how the junta judicial system is going to proceed. Make no mistake, Al Jazeera are going to come down hard on Thailand if there appears to be any jiggery pokery surrounding this matter. The already have 3 journalists imprisoned by the military in Egypt as you know, so they are no fans of military juntas.

As a previous poster stated, this is a Thailand forum, but I know a great many contributors express views and concerns about human rights and injustice elsewhere in the world when they are raised. This is a thai issue.

[ChrisY1]

The result of this case will profoundly affect the way I think about the present government one way or the other.

The political wing of the government should not and must not have any influence or involvement in the outcome of any particular judicial proceeding. The courts must proceed independently and in accordance with the law.

We should want the present government to radically overhaul current libel and lèse majesté laws with the intent of making freedom of speech paramount, but we should certainly not want them to direct the courts in individual cases.

Of course the Govt. (read Junta) will not alter these laws.......they are one of the best "silencing" tools available......

However, the government is involved now in this case by realeasing a report (below in a post) endorsing what the fruit company stated.......no labour issues, payments as per...etc..etc..!

Doesn't look too good for Andy Hall..........however...hopefully, he may have strong evidence otherwise.....

[ChrisY1]

Do all of you "freedom fighters" take a stand against corruption and injustice throughout the world, or have you become obsessed with the Thai system for some unknown reason.

If someone doesn't actively protest every injustice, they aren't allowed to comment on any particular one? There are only so many hours in the day.

When the military takeover took place, there were many on this forum who felt very uncomfortable, and still do - including myself. At the same time there were also many - it seemed to me like a majority - who applauded the general and who still do. That debate however has finished - we are where we are.

Why this issue is important is for the reasons set out by many posters. That is, we will now see a tangible sign of how the junta judicial system is going to proceed. Make no mistake, Al Jazeera are going to come down hard on Thailand if there appears to be any jiggery pokery surrounding this matter. The already have 3 journalists imprisoned by the military in Egypt as you know, so they are no fans of military juntas.

As a previous poster stated, this is a Thailand forum, but I know a great many contributors express views and concerns about human rights and injustice elsewhere in the world when they are raised. This is a thai issue.

I'm sure there are quite a few of us foreigners very wary of the current political scene.........

I'm cautious whom I applaud...at present I'm not clapping anyone!

[JAG]

The result of this case will profoundly affect the way I think about the present government one way or the other.

Perfectly put - are they really wanting to drag Thailand into the modern world or are they just slaves to a wealthy and powerful elite?

I suspect it will be the latter.

[JOC]

What a lot of tribal thinking here! "We" are right and "they" are wrong.

And Mr Andy Hall becomes a hero for the surpressed masses??

If I remember correctly, Mr Hall's "proof" for the alleged abuse of migrant workers and childlabour, was that he had talked to some migrant workers outside Natural Fruits factory in Prachuap. And surprise, surprise, they didn't have anything good to say about their Thai bosses.

Based on that very scientific evidence Mr Hall went on Al Jazeera and named and shamed the company.

No wonder they returned with suing him for libel.

But why let facts get in the way of a good story, just like the same facts are not stopping the Thai-hatred all too common here.

Strange attitude towards a country, where we have chosen to live.

JOC

[antsrule]

Another sad (moronic) day for Thailand . . . grow up please . . . the truth hurts I know, but suck it up . . . face is not everything . . .

TSK, TSK, TSK!!!! Farang will never understand Thainess.

Face is everything to Thais. To keep it and not to lose it.

Image, not substance is of paramount important to a society ruled by archaic feudal customs.

Just wait until they start floundering when ASEAN is going full blast next year.

They will be crying wolf and demand extra perks and priveliges or else... they will stop breathing and turn blue and, whatever happens to Thailand will be ASEAN fault. There!

They have a long way to go before they grow up.

My Chinese wife responed to my retirement with "How can I love you if you have no money?"

My subsequent Thai wife said "You don't have to be rich, you just must look rich"

No problem for me, just saying;)

[wandasloan]

The result of this case will profoundly affect the way I think about the present government one way or the other.

I don't normally defend military governments and their ilk, but you are way out of line. You are saying that the junta and its (new) military-dominated government will run and decide this case. You are saying the court involved has no independence but will do exactly as ordered by the military authorities - the NCPO and the new government.

Shame on you.

[kingalfred]

not about whether the NCPO/ army junta interferes in the trial, its a case of does a "foreigner" get a fair trial and a verdict from the court based on evidence,in a "libel trial" Thai vs falang? let's see if there is a first.

[wandasloan]

not about whether the NCPO/ army junta interferes in the trial, its a case of does a "foreigner" get a fair trial and a verdict from the court based on evidence,in a "libel trial" Thai vs falang? let's see if there is a first.

Another one who doesn't think it matters if the junta interferes with the justice system so long as he gets what he wants out of it.

Shame on you, too. Once for being that incredibly selfish to all the other people before the court. And again for backing a junta's iron first and threats over the courts. Shame and shame again on you.

So far as this case, have you looked at the law? Are you familiar with criminal defamation? This is a straightforward case, and I'm about 98% certain the court will decide - WITHOUT MILITARY INTERFERENCE - based on the law, without considering nationality. Mr Hall is in deep trouble, and if he has excellent representation he has a chance. I don't rate the chance of government interference above 2%, and that's only because they are, at root and at heart, jack-booted thugs so they may act, who knows, really? But not likely.

When you get a moment, have a look at the relevant laws. They're very similar to most countries (except the US) - and also except most countries don't put the guilty party in prison. But defamation is defamation pretty well everywhere, including Thailand. Hall is a Brit. He's being charged under a law that is almost exactly the same as the one back home - just the consequences are a lot higher.

Well it will be interesting to see what evidence for his allegations he presents at trial. I am not opposed to anti-defamation laws in general but unfortunately here in Thailand the truth of what has been alleged is not a defense, it is the intent to defame that matters.

Except in the United States, truth is NEVER a defence against defamation/libel/slander. It's not the truth that's a matter for the trial. It's a matter of whether defamation occurred, and if so, what the motivation was for uttering it. Truth may or may not be a mitigating circumstance but is NEVER a defence outside the USA.

..

Edited August 31, 2014 by wandasloan

[metisdead]

A flame post has been removed as well as a reply.

[Frank James]

This gentleman has some big stones, going up against the Power like this. Be British, my friend. Godspeed.

[robblok]

http://www.freshfruitportal.com/2013/08/28/thai-govt-claims-natural-fruit-company-complied-with-labor-laws/?country=thailand

Pretty damning report for Andy Hall.........

Yes it is not sure who i trust, if the goverment told them they were comming then i would not value the goverment report much.

[Baerboxer]

not about whether the NCPO/ army junta interferes in the trial, its a case of does a "foreigner" get a fair trial and a verdict from the court based on evidence,in a "libel trial" Thai vs falang? let's see if there is a first.

Another one who doesn't think it matters if the junta interferes with the justice system so long as he gets what he wants out of it.

Shame on you, too. Once for being that incredibly selfish to all the other people before the court. And again for backing a junta's iron first and threats over the courts. Shame and shame again on you.

So far as this case, have you looked at the law? Are you familiar with criminal defamation? This is a straightforward case, and I'm about 98% certain the court will decide - WITHOUT MILITARY INTERFERENCE - based on the law, without considering nationality. Mr Hall is in deep trouble, and if he has excellent representation he has a chance. I don't rate the chance of government interference above 2%, and that's only because they are, at root and at heart, jack-booted thugs so they may act, who knows, really? But not likely.

When you get a moment, have a look at the relevant laws. They're very similar to most countries (except the US) - and also except most countries don't put the guilty party in prison. But defamation is defamation pretty well everywhere, including Thailand. Hall is a Brit. He's being charged under a law that is almost exactly the same as the one back home - just the consequences are a lot higher.

Well it will be interesting to see what evidence for his allegations he presents at trial. I am not opposed to anti-defamation laws in general but unfortunately here in Thailand the truth of what has been alleged is not a defense, it is the intent to defame that matters.

Except in the United States, truth is NEVER a defence against defamation/libel/slander. It's not the truth that's a matter for the trial. It's a matter of whether defamation occurred, and if so, what the motivation was for uttering it. Truth may or may not be a mitigating circumstance but is NEVER a defence outside the USA.

..

When you get a moment, have a look at the possible defenses to a charge of defamation, slander and libel in the UK. Then check and see if you think they would be accepted by a Thai court.

[DonThaiToMe]

when people/companies use the antiquated thai laws to silence anyone telling the truth about them we really have to wonder, in any other country when you tell the truth you are respected but here if you tell the truth and someone loses face or worse still, money, they take you to court. Until such time that the law backs up the honest people and not just the rich this country can never improve. The courts need to be able to base their decisions on actual facts and the truth, not on how much it cost someone to have the truth about them exposed. Corruption is the reason it is till ongoing and this needs to be stopped, ethics need to be implemented and the guilty parties instigating these trumped up charges made to face the law themselves, this case will show the world what Thailand really stands for, a wrong decision could cause real problems for all thai companies and the country itself.

Quite similar to how the US of A treats Snowden, Jukian Assange and the likes, wouldn´t you say?