Just moved back to the states after 5 years. Sticker shock.

[sirineou]

So after 40 years he gets $190k a year pension. That is prob more than he earnt a year while working (military?) Good luck to him but pensions like that are one of the reasons the USA is going broke.

Police, firemen, and city workers, at least in the city of San Francisco have pension payouts based on the last year of employment.

3% for each year of service up to a maxium of 90%. So what a lot of them do is, in their last year of employment work tons of overtime and collect all their holiday, and sick pay saved up (for some reason it counts towards their final year salary). With a starting salary of a policeman in S.F. being from $80,000 to $112,000 you can imagine their salary after 30 years, ....add on top of that the overtime and holiday and sick pay.........Voila....pensions of $200,000

You are writing about city pensions as opposed to USA Social Security. I assume if SF goes broke the pensions will not be paid.

Most ,if not all Pensions are guarantied by PBGC a federal government pension insurance agency . If SF goes broke the issue will be addressed in bankruptcy court ,with a number of options. Pensions can be protected, restructured,or administered by PBGC . Usually the insurance only pays a percentage of original benefits something between 60 and 80%. Some one please correct me if I am wrong with my numbers.

[mesquite]

But when I, and my buddies, were 33, we had 12 years into a career with only 7 to go with a vested pension. We spent our younger years preparing for our older. A lot of my friends are double-dippers. Put in their twenty, then started over again. One of my best friends has two more years, and at 60 he'll have two pensions totally close to $190,000 per year. Our houses are paid for. We have liquid investments.

So after 40 years he gets $190k a year pension. That is prob more than he earnt a year while working (military?) Good luck to him but pensions like that are one of the reasons the USA is going broke.

Police, firemen, and city workers, at least in the city of San Francisco have pension payouts based on the last year of employment.

3% for each year of service up to a maxium of 90%. So what a lot of them do is, in their last year of employment work tons of overtime and collect all their holiday, and sick pay saved up (for some reason it counts towards their final year salary). With a starting salary of a policeman in S.F. being from $80,000 to $112,000 you can imagine their salary after 30 years, ....add on top of that the overtime and holiday and sick pay.........Voila....pensions of $200,000

You are writing about city pensions as opposed to USA Social Security. I assume if SF goes broke the pensions will not be paid.

Not necessarily. The feds could bail out SF and then all of the US taxpayers end up footing the bill for this scam.

I believe all that overtime to kick up the annuity is called "spiking" the pension and should not be allowed, ie should not be considered in determining the annuity, but it is.

If SF does go broke, hopefully the feds will not bail them out. It looks like Detroit is having to cut back their pensions.

[mesquite]

So after 40 years he gets $190k a year pension. That is prob more than he earnt a year while working (military?) Good luck to him but pensions like that are one of the reasons the USA is going broke.

Police, firemen, and city workers, at least in the city of San Francisco have pension payouts based on the last year of employment.

3% for each year of service up to a maxium of 90%. So what a lot of them do is, in their last year of employment work tons of overtime and collect all their holiday, and sick pay saved up (for some reason it counts towards their final year salary). With a starting salary of a policeman in S.F. being from $80,000 to $112,000 you can imagine their salary after 30 years, ....add on top of that the overtime and holiday and sick pay.........Voila....pensions of $200,000

You are writing about city pensions as opposed to USA Social Security. I assume if SF goes broke the pensions will not be paid.

Most ,if not all Pensions are guarantied by PBGC a federal government pension insurance agency . If SF goes broke the issue will be addressed in bankruptcy court ,with a number of options. Pensions can be protected, restructured,or administered by PBGC . Usually the insurance only pays a percentage of original benefits something between 60 and 80%. Some one please correct me if I am wrong with my numbers.

Public pensions are not guaranteed by the PBGC. The safety net is the taxpayer.

[mesquite]

But when I, and my buddies, were 33, we had 12 years into a career with only 7 to go with a vested pension. We spent our younger years preparing for our older. A lot of my friends are double-dippers. Put in their twenty, then started over again. One of my best friends has two more years, and at 60 he'll have two pensions totally close to $190,000 per year. Our houses are paid for. We have liquid investments.

So after 40 years he gets $190k a year pension. That is prob more than he earnt a year while working (military?) Good luck to him but pensions like that are one of the reasons the USA is going broke.

Good point. I wonder what his two careers were to get that kind of money. A Secret Service agent sworn to take a bullet for the President of the US doesn't get anywhere near that level of compensation, retirement or otherwise. So what did this guy do?

[Thighlander]

but Government worker pensions are bankrupting a lot of municipalities. Fire/police/teachers make unsustainable pensions. Just ask Stockton, San Bernardino, and Detroit.....The military has already cut back on pensions for newer members.

[mesquite]

But when I, and my buddies, were 33, we had 12 years into a career with only 7 to go with a vested pension. We spent our younger years preparing for our older. A lot of my friends are double-dippers. Put in their twenty, then started over again. One of my best friends has two more years, and at 60 he'll have two pensions totally close to $190,000 per year. Our houses are paid for. We have liquid investments.

So after 40 years he gets $190k a year pension. That is prob more than he earnt a year while working (military?) Good luck to him but pensions like that are one of the reasons the USA is going broke.

Pensions are not entitlements, these are money that was deducted from my paycheck every week. and as mentioned many are vested in more than one career. I am vested in two unions, many people I know are, nothing unusual there. I worked very had for it, nobody just gave it to me. while many of you were running around boozing and whoring it, I was working

This not only provides me with financial safety in my golden years but also with the medical care I will need, and safety for my family. It is called making proper plans for the future.

Agree with you. There are certain agreements made at the start of employment and the employers IMHO should hold up to their part of the bargain. Agreements such as "if you work X number of years with this organization, you will get a pension worth Y dollars." This is always public information. Now many of us are getting close to the end of the game, so to speak, and those who did not have the foresight to get into this type of employment, or put money away, are calling "foul!"

[IAMSOBAD]

Back to sticker shock...any more examples?

[sirineou]

So after 40 years he gets $190k a year pension. That is prob more than he earnt a year while working (military?) Good luck to him but pensions like that are one of the reasons the USA is going broke.

Police, firemen, and city workers, at least in the city of San Francisco have pension payouts based on the last year of employment.

3% for each year of service up to a maxium of 90%. So what a lot of them do is, in their last year of employment work tons of overtime and collect all their holiday, and sick pay saved up (for some reason it counts towards their final year salary). With a starting salary of a policeman in S.F. being from $80,000 to $112,000 you can imagine their salary after 30 years, ....add on top of that the overtime and holiday and sick pay.........Voila....pensions of $200,000

You are writing about city pensions as opposed to USA Social Security. I assume if SF goes broke the pensions will not be paid.

Not necessarily. The feds could bail out SF and then all of the US taxpayers end up footing the bill for this scam.

I believe all that overtime to kick up the annuity is called "spiking" the pension and should not be allowed, ie should not be considered in determining the annuity, but it is.

If SF does go broke, hopefully the feds will not bail them out. It looks like Detroit is having to cut back their pensions.

BBGC is funded by premiums paid by it's clients, Do to the recent economic downturn and large number of bankruptcies they are currently tuning a deficit of 26 Billion dollars, but as the economy improves and more people pay in to it rather than collect, the fund should solvent again soon

[mesquite]

but Government worker pensions are bankrupting a lot of municipalities. Fire/police/teachers make unsustainable pensions. Just ask Stockton, San Bernardino, and Detroit.....The military has already cut back on pensions for newer members.

True, and putting and end to spiking might solve some of this. It's a mess to be sure. The governments are legally obligated to pay those pensions, but they don't have enough money. Fortunately that's why we in the US elect only the best, so they can earn their salaries and come up with solutions to difficult problems. Right.

[mesquite]

Not necessarily. The feds could bail out SF and then all of the US taxpayers end up footing the bill for this scam.

I believe all that overtime to kick up the annuity is called "spiking" the pension and should not be allowed, ie should not be considered in determining the annuity, but it is.

If SF does go broke, hopefully the feds will not bail them out. It looks like Detroit is having to cut back their pensions.

BBGC is funded by premiums paid by it's clients, Do to the recent economic downturn and large number of bankruptcies they are currently tuning a deficit of 26 Billion dollars, but as the economy improves and more people pay in to it rather than collect, the fund should solvent again soon

But PBGC does not cover those pensions, only private sector pensions.

[mesquite]

Back to sticker shock...any more examples?

Huh? Oh yeah, that.

[sirineou]

Back to sticker shock...any more examples?

No sticker shock. There are two problems in my opinion,

One is that people leave the country and expect prices to be the same as when they left, and are shocked when they return, but where is that ever true, Not in the US , not in Europe, and probably not anywhere,

The second is that one might not be able to retire or return in the same market where one was when working, I work in NYC but when I retire it would be in Florida or Thailand or both. If I moved to Thailand, I certainly would not be able to return to NYC unless I got a very good job there and made NYC money, with my pension it will have to be Florida.

[govoner]

So after 40 years he gets $190 k a year pension . That is probably more than he made a year while working ( military i assume) Good luck to him but is one of the reasons the USA is going broke. Huge pensions and a sense of entitlement . i hope he gets to spend it before it all crashes.

The USA does not Huge pensions. Social Security is paid from the money people put in while working. The US has entitlement programs but they are not pensions. Get your facts straight.

So after 5 years of retirement this guy will collect close to $1 million in pensions $2 mill after 10 years

How much do you think he paid in while working?

$50000 a year for 40 years = 2 mill .Do you think he paid that in?

Edited September 7, 2014 by govoner

[sirineou]

Not necessarily. The feds could bail out SF and then all of the US taxpayers end up footing the bill for this scam.

I believe all that overtime to kick up the annuity is called "spiking" the pension and should not be allowed, ie should not be considered in determining the annuity, but it is.

If SF does go broke, hopefully the feds will not bail them out. It looks like Detroit is having to cut back their pensions.

BBGC is funded by premiums paid by it's clients, Do to the recent economic downturn and large number of bankruptcies they are currently tuning a deficit of 26 Billion dollars, but as the economy improves and more people pay in to it rather than collect, the fund should solvent again soon

But PBGC does not cover those pensions, only private sector pensions.

I am not an expert in the subject and I could be wrong, but most city employees are Union members and are covered by their perspective unions. I am sure that these unions have made contingency plans in the event of local government default. I cant believe that the SF city unions have not addressed this issue. And I am sure there must be some sort of protection system for Union free districts also.

[Thighlander]

The airline pilots were some of the first to get bailed out.....they ended up with less than they were promised. One huge problem is the pension funds assume 7% annual returns. Also, there are a huge number of people getting ready to retire, and like most Ponzis, not enough paying in.

As far as cost of living in America....it varies as much, if not more, than Thailand. There are some areas of the Sunbelt where you don't need cooling or heat, and taxes are low. The bad news is that the recovery has been exceptionally slow since the crash. For the 20% that buy stocks; they did well, for others, who depend on wages; it's still pretty ugly out there. Some of the great secondary cities like: Reno, Tucson, Colorado Springs, Albuquerque, and even Las Vegas used to be places, where just about anyone could show up and get a job that would pay for a decent place to live.......people on public assistance is more the norm, now. Great wine pieces, cheese, beef, cotton goods......but medical/dental? <deleted>....500 per month for a 50 yo, with a fairly large deductible....a crown root canal will run you 2000 USD....

[sirineou]

So after 40 years he gets $190 k a year pension . That is probably more than he made a year while working ( military i assume) Good luck to him but is one of the reasons the USA is going broke. Huge pensions and a sense of entitlement . i hope he gets to spend it before it all crashes.

The USA does not Huge pensions. Social Security is paid from the money people put in while working. The US has entitlement programs but they are not pensions. Get your facts straight.

So after 5 years of retirement this guy will collect close to $1 million in pensions $2 mill after 10 years

How much do you think he paid in while working?

$50000 a year for 40 years = 2 mill .Do you think he paid that in?

Dont forget that the funds collected are invested. So what he is entitled is what he paid plus the return on his investment,

Also don't forget that not everyone collects all they paid in to it, All funds paid by people that leave the union before vested . go to the general fund, and many people die before collecting for long or any.

[Thighlander]

their widows get their pensions, until they die.......

[sirineou]

their widows get their pensions, until they die.......

Not unless you made provisions

The way it works , at lead in the cases I know, If you get full benefits it expires at your death, but if you chose reduced benefits then your widow collects after your death.

[craigt3365]

OK, enough with the pensions. Back to the OP please.

[IAMSOBAD]

Anyone able to name some areas where they are considering? I'm serious about Delray Beach,Boca Raton area.

Any examples of sticker shock?

Edited September 8, 2014 by IAMSOBAD

[thailiketoo]

Anyone able to name some areas where they are considering? I'm serious about Delray Beach,Boca Raton area.

Any examples of sticker shock?

http://www.bustedmugshots.com/florida/boca-raton

Great Cuban food and coffee and cigars in Miami.

Edited September 8, 2014 by thailiketoo

[IAMSOBAD]

Come on...who has some stories about their visits to the USA and prices there.

[farang000999]

For employees hired on or after January 7, 2012, the City provides the following maximum pension formulas

• Safety (i.e., Police, Fire and Sheriffs): 3% of final compensation per year of service at age 58
• Miscellaneous Safety (e.g., Probation Officers; Juvenile Counselors): 2.7% of final compensation per year of service at age 58
• Miscellaneous (non-safety): 2.3% of final compensation per year of service at age 65

Employees are required to make a member contribution towards retirement, typically 7.5% of compensation (9% for safety)

[JAFO]

Here is one thing that is actually a refreshing reversed sticker shock coming back to the US. You can get an outstanding beer here for about a $1 a bottle with a TREMENDOUS selection from hundreds of micro breweries. I am sitting here right now watching the SF Giants beat up on the LA Dodgers sipping on an ice cold Leinenkugels Orange Shandy. Thai beer is absolutely horrendous at any price. I always laugh when people say the beer is cheap in Thailand.

Edited September 13, 2014 by JAFO

[beachproperty]

Here is one thing that is actually a refreshing reversed sticker shock coming back to the US. You can get an outstanding beer here for about a $1 a bottle with a TREMENDOUS selection from hundreds of micro breweries. I am sitting here right now watching the SF Giants beat up on the LA Dodgers sipping on an ice cold Leinenkugels Orange Shandy. Thai beer is absolutely horrendous at any price. I always laugh when people say the beer is cheap in Thailand.

GO GIANTS!!!!!! ........

Edited September 13, 2014 by beachproperty

[JAFO]

Up 6 - 0 in the 6th. Bum looks good. 3 hitter going. Time for another beer.

[JAFO]

Now in 7th Ishakawa pinch hitting for Bum just splashed one for a 3 run big air. 9 - 0 !!!!. Beat LA Beat LA the crowd chants.........

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Here is one thing that is actually a refreshing reversed sticker shock coming back to the US. You can get an outstanding beer here for about a $1 a bottle with a TREMENDOUS selection from hundreds of micro breweries. I am sitting here right now watching the SF Giants beat up on the LA Dodgers sipping on an ice cold Leinenkugels Orange Shandy. Thai beer is absolutely horrendous at any price. I always laugh when people say the beer is cheap in Thailand.

Yeh, but how much for a Hand Shandy?

[Toknarok]

"Orange Shandy"? Sounds absolutely revolting.

[pgrahmm]

Here is one thing that is actually a refreshing reversed sticker shock coming back to the US. You can get an outstanding beer here for about a $1 a bottle with a TREMENDOUS selection from hundreds of micro breweries. I am sitting here right now watching the SF Giants beat up on the LA Dodgers sipping on an ice cold Leinenkugels Orange Shandy. Thai beer is absolutely horrendous at any price. I always laugh when people say the beer is cheap in Thailand.

I do miss ATT park - been there too many times to count - but will take the wife next time in the states to have her experience the electricty of it....2nd generation Giants fan here....

You're obviously not at the game with $1.00 beer....

I'm sitting in my livingroom in CM watching the Giants beat up the Dodgers drinking a Coke Zero...get to watch every game which I couldn't if I were there....and don't have an inclination or clue what an Orange Shandy is....but not a brew drinker....

But - for the ones that are you have a point.....enjoy the game.....