Just moved back to the states after 5 years. Sticker shock.

[thailiketoo]

Let's address that by itself. I could pay $50 for a meal in San Francisco or New York, but not in Main Street USA. Right now I am in Salem, Oregon, which is the Capital of Oregon. Population, about 150,000 people.

There is no restaurant in this town that would have a $50 meal on the menu, not even including a decent bottle of wine.

Here's something you can't even get in this quality in LOS. USDA Choice beef steak, shrimp dish, baked potato with the trimmings and it will come with home made fresh dinner rolls and butter.

This is a national chain restaurant that's right down the street from me right now, and there is no better meal in town. This is not the average restaurant. This is a steakhouse. A real USA steakhouse.

There is no sales tax here so that's the price, out the door. Tip - up to you. 513 baht and that's stylin' - not an everyday outing.

Well what do you think? Is Neversure telling the truth or is he a poser?

Neversure wrote, "There is no restaurant in this town that would have a $50 meal on the menu, not even including a decent bottle of wine."

I used to eat at Bentleys in Salem if I remember correctly.

Soup $4.75

House Salad, $5.95

Appetizer crab cakes, $12.95

Steak, $34.95

Chocolate cake $7.50

Irish after dinner coffee $6.75

Tot. $72.85

Quilceda Creek Cabernet Sauvignon 2008 Columbia Valley,

WA $285.00

http://www.bentleysgrill.com/index.php

Edited September 3, 2014 by thailiketoo

[NeverSure]

Let's address that by itself. I could pay $50 for a meal in San Francisco or New York, but not in Main Street USA. Right now I am in Salem, Oregon, which is the Capital of Oregon. Population, about 150,000 people.

There is no restaurant in this town that would have a $50 meal on the menu, not even including a decent bottle of wine.

Here's something you can't even get in this quality in LOS. USDA Choice beef steak, shrimp dish, baked potato with the trimmings and it will come with home made fresh dinner rolls and butter.

This is a national chain restaurant that's right down the street from me right now, and there is no better meal in town. This is not the average restaurant. This is a steakhouse. A real USA steakhouse.

There is no sales tax here so that's the price, out the door. Tip - up to you. 513 baht and that's stylin' - not an everyday outing.

Well what do you think? Is Neversure telling the truth or is he a poser?

I used to eat at Bentleys in Salem if I remember correctly.

Soup $4.75

House Salad, $5.95

Appetizer crab cakes, $12.95

Steak, $34.95

Chocolate cake $7.50

Irish after dinner coffee $6.75

Tot. $80.35

Quilceda Creek Cabernet Sauvignon 2008 Columbia Valley,

WA $285.00

http://www.bentleysgrill.com/index.php

You're reaching too hard. The OP said he was shocked at how high "everything" is in the US. I claim it isn't.

You can always find something that's outrageous and for the privileged few, even in Thailand. Go buy a new Merc.

I claim that there are many places where you can get an excellent meal for less that 600 baht all in, and it's very true.

I admit I didn't think about Bentleys (I don't live here) but you can always find someone who will let you spend too much money.

Bentleys is in NO WAY representative of the cost of living in the US. What I posted about Outback is about a very big restaurant chain which serves excellent steak and seafood dinners all over the country and it's the kind of place people would go for a treat. It is very representative of a nicer restaurant that you might go out to on a Saturday night for something special.

[lovetotravel]

Let's address that by itself. I could pay $50 for a meal in San Francisco or New York, but not in Main Street USA. Right now I am in Salem, Oregon, which is the Capital of Oregon. Population, about 150,000 people.

There is no restaurant in this town that would have a $50 meal on the menu, not even including a decent bottle of wine.

Here's something you can't even get in this quality in LOS. USDA Choice beef steak, shrimp dish, baked potato with the trimmings and it will come with home made fresh dinner rolls and butter.

This is a national chain restaurant that's right down the street from me right now, and there is no better meal in town. This is not the average restaurant. This is a steakhouse. A real USA steakhouse.

There is no sales tax here so that's the price, out the door. Tip - up to you. 513 baht and that's stylin' - not an everyday outing.

Well what do you think? Is Neversure telling the truth or is he a poser?

Neversure wrote, "There is no restaurant in this town that would have a $50 meal on the menu, not even including a decent bottle of wine."

I used to eat at Bentleys in Salem if I remember correctly.

Soup $4.75

House Salad, $5.95

Appetizer crab cakes, $12.95

Steak, $34.95

Chocolate cake $7.50

Irish after dinner coffee $6.75

Tot. $72.85

Quilceda Creek Cabernet Sauvignon 2008 Columbia Valley,

WA $285.00

http://www.bentleysgrill.com/index.php

In both countries, you can spend almost as much as you want on a meal. Of course you can get much cheaper meals here, but then you're eating on the side of the road with dodgy ingredients and health standards. But it is cheap and I do it every once in a while. But not often.

You had to mention The Outback. Fantastic food. Bloomin Onions!

[meand]

The other thing about the US, if you are cheap like me, is they do know what a "special" or "promotion" is. I mean they go all out. I see signs in Thailand all the time, 70% off blah blah, but it is not even true. In the US a restaurant or an electronics store can have a sale, and it is by all intents and purposes amazing, as in so good it would seem they would be losing money. You don't see that happen here, ever.

You have places like Ross in the US too, where you can get really nice, brand name stuff, just totally slashed at their normal, everyday price, too. I do find cheap clothes in Thailand from time to time, but I am never sure of the quality or origin though..... like is this a real pair of rip curl shorts. Who knows.

I think "pure shopping", for lack of a better phrase, meaning restaurants, clothes, electronics..... pretty much anything you want to go out and buy, is much cheaper in the us. This is offset here in Thailand by rent, taxes, maybe food to some extent. But the cheap food here is of dubious quality, nobody should make any mistake about that. You are not doing yourself any favors there.

[willyumiii]

So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai?

No cheese or wine? No single malts or cream cheese? No Doritos? No rib-eyes? No bacon and sausage for breakfast? No tacos or burritos? All of which are still cheaper in the States.

Living "frugally" can be quite a yawn inducing existence.

I understand your sentiments, but me, I'm not interested in "getting by." I'd rather work hard and play hard. I've got five years here non-stop myself, and can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat.

It's all relevant.

Wow!

Everything, and I do men everything, you have listed above is very unhealthy and not necessary for a good, long and healthy and happy life!

Strokes, heart attacks, obesity...yes, all pretty cheap and much easier to obtain in America!

You act like living like a Thai and being frugal and health conscious is a bad thing.

What are you doing here in Thailand?

Chasing those slender, pretty Thai women who do not eat like an American?

You belong in the USA...I can't wait for you to go back either....please hurry!

The American Dream...To never see anything below your belt again! ( Can I have an order of fries with that please? super sized?)

[thailiketoo]

Let's address that by itself. I could pay $50 for a meal in San Francisco or New York, but not in Main Street USA. Right now I am in Salem, Oregon, which is the Capital of Oregon. Population, about 150,000 people.

There is no restaurant in this town that would have a $50 meal on the menu, not even including a decent bottle of wine.

Here's something you can't even get in this quality in LOS. USDA Choice beef steak, shrimp dish, baked potato with the trimmings and it will come with home made fresh dinner rolls and butter.

This is a national chain restaurant that's right down the street from me right now, and there is no better meal in town. This is not the average restaurant. This is a steakhouse. A real USA steakhouse.

There is no sales tax here so that's the price, out the door. Tip - up to you. 513 baht and that's stylin' - not an everyday outing.

Well what do you think? Is Neversure telling the truth or is he a poser?

I used to eat at Bentleys in Salem if I remember correctly.

Soup $4.75

House Salad, $5.95

Appetizer crab cakes, $12.95

Steak, $34.95

Chocolate cake $7.50

Irish after dinner coffee $6.75

Tot. $80.35

Quilceda Creek Cabernet Sauvignon 2008 Columbia Valley,

WA $285.00

http://www.bentleysgrill.com/index.php

You're reaching too hard. The OP said he was shocked at how high "everything" is in the US. I claim it isn't.

You can always find something that's outrageous and for the privileged few, even in Thailand. Go buy a new Merc.

I claim that there are many places where you can get an excellent meal for less that 600 baht all in, and it's very true.

I admit I didn't think about Bentleys (I don't live here) but you can always find someone who will let you spend too much money.

Bentleys is in NO WAY representative of the cost of living in the US. What I posted about Outback is about a very big restaurant chain which serves excellent steak and seafood dinners all over the country and it's the kind of place people would go for a treat. It is very representative of a nicer restaurant that you might go out to on a Saturday night for something special.

The difference is you take your best girl out to Bentleys in Salem on a Saturday night and in Korat to Somchai's buffet.

Somchai's you drop $60 - Bentleys you drop $120. Then you go to a movie and drinks afterwards and Salem that costs another $60 in Korat it costs $30. On the way home you pay the rent and utility bills in Salem for $2000 - $500 in Thailand.

Where do old Thais go to retire? There are places in The USA where Thai is spoken. 80,000 Thais live in Thai town.

Do old Thai guys retire in the USA? Do old American guys dream about retiring in Salem OR?

Women from the Philippines want to come to America or about any place else except the Philippines.

Thai women want to stay in Thailand. And yes I have talked to enough to make this generalization.

American old men escape to Thailand not to Salem.

Edited September 3, 2014 by thailiketoo

[lovetotravel]

So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai?

No cheese or wine? No single malts or cream cheese? No Doritos? No rib-eyes? No bacon and sausage for breakfast? No tacos or burritos? All of which are still cheaper in the States.

Living "frugally" can be quite a yawn inducing existence.

I understand your sentiments, but me, I'm not interested in "getting by." I'd rather work hard and play hard. I've got five years here non-stop myself, and can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat.

It's all relevant.

Wow!

Everything, and I do men everything, you have listed above is very unhealthy and not necessary for a good, long and healthy and happy life!

Strokes, heart attacks, obesity...yes, all pretty cheap and much easier to obtain in America!

You act like living like a Thai and being frugal and health conscious is a bad thing.

What are you doing here in Thailand?

Chasing those slender, pretty Thai women who do not eat like an American?

You belong in the USA...I can't wait for you to go back either....please hurry!

The American Dream...To never see anything below your belt again! ( Can I have an order of fries with that please? super sized?)

morbidly_obese_091026_main.jpg

Most Thai food is far from healthy. Deep fried, coconut milk, sugar, MSG, stir fried, squid, farmed shrimp, etc. As far as obesity, Thailand is catching up at an alarming rate.

http://www.universityherald.com/articles/9831/20140609/southeast-asian-countries-tackles-obesity.htm

The obesity rate in Singapore climbed to about 13 to 14 percent in 2010 from 8.6 percent in 2004. In Malaysia, one of two adults is either overweight or obese, while the prevalence of obesity in Thailand has nearly doubled between 1991 and 2009, Reuters reported.

http://www.medicaldaily.com/southeast-asia-increases-efforts-combat-obesity-epidemic-prevention-which-includes-climbing-stairs

Thailand isn’t far behind, with 32.2 percent of its citizens overweight. According to Thailand’s Ministry of Public Health, in just two years the obesity rates increased from 10 million in 2005 to 17 million in 2007. The country’s children don’t follow too far behind, with obesity growth rates of 36 percent in preschool-aged children and 15 percent in school-aged children.

"The latest number in 2012 showed about 17 million Thais suffered from obesity ... the number continues to rise by four million people a year," Krisada Ruangareerat, manager at the health ministry's Thai Health Promotion Foundation (THPF), told Reuters.

The THPF is also thinking of proposing a tax on sweet foods or those with high calories. "Thais consume 23.4 teaspoons of sugar per person per day, which is very high compared with an appropriate level of six teaspoons a day," Krisada said.

Overweight citizens here climbing by four million people a year. That means in 4 years, it will double. Incredible.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

And since you bring up the unions, just who do you think drove US manufacturing offshore in the first place? The offshoring of US manufacturing began with the auto industry... Why do you think Detroit more closely resembles Beirut than Chase Point? You want to brag on the unions, you'll get no support from me...

Corporate greed.

It's about the people at the top getting everything, and the guys doing the work getting kicked in the face.

[2fishin2]

So let me guess this straight. A new 2,000 sqft home in the USA using top notch materials will cost a minimum of $400,000 for materials before labor costs and land costs?

This is interesting since everything of quality in Thailand costs more than the USA but I guess building materials are an exception since you are saying the same top notch materials are 83% cheaper in Thailand than the USA.

First off .....building sytles very different.....

USA...STick build (lumber) Thailand (concrete frame with block infill)

Labor....USA....$50 to $100 hr depending on the profession Thailand ....500 baht a day for the skilled laborers and 300 Baht a day for grunt laborers

So Don't really use the same materials....Increase in costs mainly attributable to Labor.......NIce try though

Treated lumber, professional built house with standards and inspection requirements to ensure safety and security will win my votes hand down everyday. USA wins

Concrete frame Thai house. Ha thats serious laughable. First it isnt real concrete frame. Its a pole with chicken wire inside. There is no foundation poured just a shallow hole with a form put inside. Then a bunch or unskilled labor mix concrete by hand on the ground outside and then pour that into the form by hand with buckets. That "frame" is crap work. Then let me help you with this, they take either mud red bricks or chalk "concrete" blocks line them up between the frames and a very haphazard manner then mud over it. Both bricks and blocks can be broken by hand they are poop.

And in the end you get what you pay for. An unprofessional job by unskilled labor with no inspections or over site to ensure safety or building standards are followed.

Id gladly pay for skilled labor. You get what you pay for like ive said over and over. And materials used in houses here are substandard.

Typical house here are crap. Everybody knows it.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Not sure why you persist in posting about "construction techniques" when you've obviously never built anything and know nothing about building other than to generalize that "ALL homes in Thailand are built like crap"....

Another Thai bashing poster living in denial and generalizing about that which he knows nothing......

If you want something done right ....Do it yourself.....OH I forget ...you know nothing so can't

good luck with that attitude......

In case there was any question about Thailand standards here ya go! Electrical and water work examples of outstanding thai techniques

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[tartempion]

I Am on my way to Brussels right now sitting In the Orchid lounge at Swampy and on to Montreal half September.

Seriously, after living for 13 years in Thailand I am fed up with the low quality of everything (and that includes women). And don't tell me you folks feel welcome here. It is not.

I am not a city man, but I love Montreal. So much I like and so little I dislike.

The problem unfortunately is the 9 months of freezing weather.

Thus I won't move to Montreal, unfortunately.

There is the Atwater market I go shopping for vegs and fruits and an IGA supermarket; Macro, big C and Lotus are shit compared to what you can buy there. I will keep an eye on my food purchases.

I need to get out of Thailand 2x1 month/year to keep my sanity.

I am at the point I don't feel thrilled to return to Thailand in October, but I adopted a 3,5 young girl I can not take with me on my search for an other place to live.

Edited September 3, 2014 by tartempion

[bikerlou47]

[quote name=bikerlou47"

post="8328018"

timestamp="1409577517]

OP you lived in thailand did you work in thailand and earn thai wages?

Because of the exchange rates between the USD and bht the costs would seem much cheaper for you.

I got by on about 40,000-50,000 baht a month from my internet biz. I had TONS of money for fun. There was never a dull night. I lived like a Thai and blew the rest on vice. Could never do that here.

If America is such a sh#thole, and Thailand so great ....Why move back to the US???

The reason I may have to go back is to give my kids some opportunity at a quality education! I love it here!

Home school.....

I am home schooling but there is a limit as to how many years one can homeschool!

[pgrahmm]

I Am on my way to Brussels right now sitting In the Orchid lounge at Swampy and on to Montreal half September.

Seriously, after living for 13 years in Thailand I am fed up with the low quality of everything (and that includes women). And don't tell me you folks feel welcome here. It is not.

I am not a city man, but I love Montreal. So much I like and so little I dislike.

The problem unfortunately is the 9 months of freezing weather.

Thus I won't move to Montreal, unfortunately.

There is the Atwater market I go shopping for vegs and fruits and an IGA supermarket; Macro, big C and Lotus are shit compared to what you can buy there. I will keep an eye on my food purchases.

I need to get out of Thailand 2x1 month/year to keep my sanity.

I am at the point I don't feel thrilled to return to Thailand in October, but I adopted a 3,5 young girl I can not take with me on my search for an other place to live.

Hope you pack up all that bitterness and take it with you when you leave......If you come back leave it in Canada aye?

By the way - this thread is not about you.....

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Seriously, after living for 13 years in Thailand I am fed up with the low quality of everything (and that includes women). And don't tell me you folks feel welcome here. It is not.

If you are over 50, just be happy you can still get a woman of any quality.

Slim Pickens in Canada.

[TuskegeeBen]

I do wish you success, but I want to caution you also, there really are no shortcuts. If you have to retire back to the US, you will be sittiing at the mall with all the other old guys with nothing to do. If you retire in thailand with not much of an income, it will be worse.

Not everyone needs money to give them something to do.

I'm happy to go running or cycling, if I ever lose my health reading a book is good too.

Come to think of it, watching girls go by in a Mall isn't all that bad either.

True story ~ My 84 year-old Mom (back in the mid-80s) would send my 87 year-old Dad off to the local Sears mall, for walking exercises, and "girl-watching" with his senior (chess-playing) buddys. I asked Mom why she did that? To my great surprise, Mom answered, "I do that deliberately, so your Dad can get his exercise energy "up", then come home to "fantasize", in bed with me" . All those years, and I regarded my Mom as a sweet, but up-tight, rigid, and "holier-than-though" Baptist. I was definitely wrong about that! Your point was well received. Cheers,

[maccaroni man]

I just reread the op opening post. He lived in a flat for 150.00 dollars a month and survived on meals the cost 1.50 one dollar and fifty. IMO Using his price point, all he needed to do was travel south to Malaysia, Singapore, or Indonesia if he wanted to experience sticker shock.

The thread has touched on quality and cost. We are currently keeping a full time residence in LOS and I have just completed my second year in the USA after being absent for the previous 16 yrs. we live on a resort island in both countries. Hilton Head Island and Koh Samui. The infrastructure on Hilton Head is amazing with a network of walking and bike trails throughout the island. The electric wires are all under ground and there are no neon signs or build boards allowed. Driving around the island is easy and pleasing to the senses with the numerous golf courses and manicured road sides. Land Prices are on par and even less than in Thailand. Because it is considered a desirable location housing is IMO not good value for money. As for resteraunts there are hundreds of places to eat and drink with an average plate of $12.00 plus drinks tax and tip. Schools are IB and free which is why I made the move. In a word life in the USA compared to LOS is easy and boring.

Thailand has an edge, it's dangerous, full of the unexpected, has beautiful beaches, great weather, and the food is incredible. On koh Samui a five star chef is not uncommon and a hotel buffet is international standard with fish meat cheese pasteries etc. Thailand is Vibrant young and alive. For my family we have found the USA and LOS on par as far as cost of living goes. We are unanimous in believing Thailand is more exciting with better value for the housing dollar. I enjoy the mindless existence I have in the USA and crave the daily adventure of Thailand, quite frankly Thailand made me better because I always needed to be ready to fight.

[IAMSOBAD]

Anyone go back or moving to Fort Lauderdale or Delray Beach area in FL. Apartment prices are better there than in BKK. And great pools...gyms...spas...etc. Car prices half the price in BKK. Any people made that leap?

[JAFO]

So let me guess this straight. A new 2,000 sqft home in the USA using top notch materials will cost a minimum of $400,000 for materials before labor costs and land costs?

This is interesting since everything of quality in Thailand costs more than the USA but I guess building materials are an exception since you are saying the same top notch materials are 83% cheaper in Thailand than the USA.

First off .....building sytles very different.....

USA...STick build (lumber) Thailand (concrete frame with block infill)

Labor....USA....$50 to $100 hr depending on the profession Thailand ....500 baht a day for the skilled laborers and 300 Baht a day for grunt laborers

So Don't really use the same materials....Increase in costs mainly attributable to Labor.......NIce try though

Treated lumber, professional built house with standards and inspection requirements to ensure safety and security will win my votes hand down everyday. USA wins

Concrete frame Thai house. Ha thats serious laughable. First it isnt real concrete frame. Its a pole with chicken wire inside. There is no foundation poured just a shallow hole with a form put inside. Then a bunch or unskilled labor mix concrete by hand on the ground outside and then pour that into the form by hand with buckets. That "frame" is crap work. Then let me help you with this, they take either mud red bricks or chalk "concrete" blocks line them up between the frames and a very haphazard manner then mud over it. Both bricks and blocks can be broken by hand they are poop.

And in the end you get what you pay for. An unprofessional job by unskilled labor with no inspections or over site to ensure safety or building standards are followed.

Id gladly pay for skilled labor. You get what you pay for like ive said over and over. And materials used in houses here are substandard.

Typical house here are crap. Everybody knows it.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I was not going to post any further in this thread but wanted to comment on this.

In the end houses in Thailand are what they are and people live in them and they quite frankly seem to be doing quite well. They do what they were intended to do and that's offer shelter and security, just like homes in the US. When you reference substandard what are you basing that term on? Standards developed and required in the US? Why would Thais build to a US standard? Why would you want them too. Do you want a $500,000 1800 sq ft home in Thailand? I do not know about you but I do not see houses in Thailand just randomly collapsing, houses just burning to the ground or exploding as you mentioned in another post just like I do not see this in the US so I don't get your point, what are you complaining about? Is it because you are not comfortable in Thailand and for you to feel good everything has to be controlled and governed as in America? I mean one of the reasons I left the US was to get away from all the government control, rules and regulations. Its refreshing.

Just as a point of discussion to refute your argument a bit, I was a home inspector part time back 10+ years ago. I have been in a tremendous number of homes in the US that were being purchased for prices ranging from $500,000 to $1.2 mil. I used to cringe on my walk thrus. They have numerous quality issues some minor, some serious. Sheet rock is splitting, the bull nosed corners are cracked from floor to ceiling. Doors stick or want close, sub floors in bathrooms are lifting or are rotted and need to be replaced. Huge cracks in the driveway slab and into the garage. Inefficient central air conditioning systems, aluminum wire throughout the house requiring constant management. Galvanized plumbing that has rotted away. I have seen long roof joyces/joist that are split long ways virtually the entire length. New homes now are being thrown up so fast they are using "Green wood" and after built the house settles causing numerous issues.A great number are built by unskilled Mexicans that use nail guns in some of the scariest scenarios I have witnessed with virtually no supervision.

So we can all sit on an internet forum and split hairs about what the best is and tear the other place down. Its pointless. There is no "Winner" or "Loser". What you sit around and observe and make notice off I walk by and never even give it a 2nd glance. Why, because I do not care. Its all in what you want to focus on.

I like living in Thailand for exactly what it is. I did not think at anytime everything was golden here and life was superior. I found that the things I was looking for Thailand offers. I do not care about their house build standards, they seem to be just fine. Its all about compromise. I would gladly give up paying on a 30 year mortgage on a $500,000 home to own my home in Thailand, I will pass on fancy roads, sidewalks people do not use, parks people never use and the taxes I have to pay to have them and not have those in Thailand. I like that in Thailand I am responsible for myself and my own actions versus being over governed and being told what I can and cannot do because some bureaucrat said I have to. I like that I will not have to work until I damn near die to pay on all those standards you seem to want and require, The list is huge and I could go on.

Thailand is not for everyone but if you look at things for what they are and adapt, life can be easy and relaxing. If you chose to sit around and nit pick and compare you will quickly become a bitter person and nothing anywhere will be good enough. Life is far too short to live like that.

[TuskegeeBen]

So let me guess this straight. A new 2,000 sqft home in the USA using top notch materials will cost a minimum of $400,000 for materials before labor costs and land costs?

This is interesting since everything of quality in Thailand costs more than the USA but I guess building materials are an exception since you are saying the same top notch materials are 83% cheaper in Thailand than the USA.

First off .....building sytles very different.....

USA...STick build (lumber) Thailand (concrete frame with block infill)

Labor....USA....$50 to $100 hr depending on the profession Thailand ....500 baht a day for the skilled laborers and 300 Baht a day for grunt laborers

So Don't really use the same materials....Increase in costs mainly attributable to Labor.......NIce try though

Treated lumber, professional built house with standards and inspection requirements to ensure safety and security will win my votes hand down everyday. USA wins

Concrete frame Thai house. Ha thats serious laughable. First it isnt real concrete frame. Its a pole with chicken wire inside. There is no foundation poured just a shallow hole with a form put inside. Then a bunch or unskilled labor mix concrete by hand on the ground outside and then pour that into the form by hand with buckets. That "frame" is crap work. Then let me help you with this, they take either mud red bricks or chalk "concrete" blocks line them up between the frames and a very haphazard manner then mud over it. Both bricks and blocks can be broken by hand they are poop.

And in the end you get what you pay for. An unprofessional job by unskilled labor with no inspections or over site to ensure safety or building standards are followed.

Id gladly pay for skilled labor. You get what you pay for like ive said over and over. And materials used in houses here are substandard.

Typical house here are crap. Everybody knows it.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I was not going to post any further in this thread but wanted to comment on this.

In the end houses in Thailand are what they are and people live in them and they quite frankly seem to be doing quite well. They do what they were intended to do and that's offer shelter and security, just like homes in the US. When you reference substandard what are you basing that term on? Standards developed and required in the US? Why would Thais build to a US standard? Why would you want them too. Do you want a $500,000 1800 sq ft home in Thailand? I do not know about you but I do not see houses in Thailand just randomly collapsing, houses just burning to the ground or exploding as you mentioned in another post just like I do not see this in the US so I don't get your point, what are you complaining about? Is it because you are not comfortable in Thailand and for you to feel good everything has to be controlled and governed as in America? I mean one of the reasons I left the US was to get away from all the government control, rules and regulations. Its refreshing.

Just as a point of discussion to refute your argument a bit, I was a home inspector part time back 10+ years ago. I have been in a tremendous number of homes in the US that were being purchased for prices ranging from $500,000 to $1.2 mil. I used to cringe on my walk thrus. They have numerous quality issues some minor, some serious. Sheet rock is splitting, the bull nosed corners are cracked from floor to ceiling. Doors stick or want close, sub floors in bathrooms are lifting or are rotted and need to be replaced. Huge cracks in the driveway slab and into the garage. Inefficient central air conditioning systems, aluminum wire throughout the house requiring constant management. Galvanized plumbing that has rotted away. I have seen long roof joyces/joist that are split long ways virtually the entire length. New homes now are being thrown up so fast they are using "Green wood" and after built the house settles causing numerous issues.A great number are built by unskilled Mexicans that use nail guns in some of the scariest scenarios I have witnessed with virtually no supervision.

So we can all sit on an internet forum and split hairs about what the best is and tear the other place down. Its pointless. There is no "Winner" or "Loser". What you sit around and observe and make notice off I walk by and never even give it a 2nd glance. Why, because I do not care. Its all in what you want to focus on.

I like living in Thailand for exactly what it is. I did not think at anytime everything was golden here and life was superior. I found that the things I was looking for Thailand offers. I do not care about their house build standards, they seem to be just fine. Its all about compromise. I would gladly give up paying on a 30 year mortgage on a $500,000 home to own my home in Thailand, I will pass on fancy roads, sidewalks people do not use, parks people never use and the taxes I have to pay to have them and not have those in Thailand. I like that in Thailand I am responsible for myself and my own actions versus being over governed and being told what I can and cannot do because some bureaucrat said I have to. I like that I will not have to work until I damn near die to pay on all those standards you seem to want and require, The list is huge and I could go on.

Thailand is not for everyone but if you look at things for what they are and adapt, life can be easy and relaxing. If you chose to sit around and nit pick and compare you will quickly become a bitter person and nothing anywhere will be good enough. Life is far too short to live like that.

[thailiketoo]

This is a thread about a guy who went back to the States and freaked because prices were so high. Then the OP started getting attacked. HeijoshinCool wrote, "So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai? I can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat." Jip 99 was the next attack with, "So white rice is healthy .... or were you just eating kwitiow ? No msg there then." Then a show off (I guess that's to be expected) Am I lucky I don't have to live frugally. Wednesday off to Brussels for 2 weeks and then on to Montreal for an other two weeks. I know where to buy food and how to cook. I will visit a few restaurants, a tenderloin opposite Leuven railway station, buffet Vichy in La Salle Montreal and an excellent Greek restaurant somewhere Av du Parc."

Then the anti attack starts in earnest with Neversure, "If you want to pay 3rd world prices and live literally in filth that's hazardous to your health, up to you. I don't think you're living like a Thai in the US or your costs would be similar. I'm convince the US is the cheapest 1st world country there is to live in. Maybe by a wide margin"

That's where my question begins. ThaiVisa is an expat forum for people who live in or travel to or like Thailand. Why would a couple of guys with little or no knowledge about Thailand try and convince people to move to the USA?

Anyone who has lived in both places may argue different good and bad points but not cost of living. That's just too far apart. It's like a Harley Davidson lover going to a Honda motor scooter forum and trying to convince people to buy a Harley because they are cheaper. There may be reasons to buy a Harley but cheap is not one of them.

So these threads always end the same way. Lies are told like power cables in the USA are underground and everyone has a sewer and food in a restaurant is really cheap and after the truth comes out it ends in a Thai bash because that's all that's left. Bash education, bash sanitation, bash politics, bash government policy.

Finally an odd fellow asks, .. and everyone sagely nods and priorities are put back in place and all the old Hugh Hefner clones carry on in substandard ill wired homes with sea views, crackling concrete and a bevy of Thai trinkerbells fluttering round the teak furniture all for the price of a large bag of peanuts at Comiskey Park.

Edited September 3, 2014 by thailiketoo

[MW72]

So let me guess this straight. A new 2,000 sqft home in the USA using top notch materials will cost a minimum of $400,000 for materials before labor costs and land costs?

This is interesting since everything of quality in Thailand costs more than the USA but I guess building materials are an exception since you are saying the same top notch materials are 83% cheaper in Thailand than the USA.

First off .....building sytles very different.....

USA...STick build (lumber) Thailand (concrete frame with block infill)

Labor....USA....$50 to $100 hr depending on the profession Thailand ....500 baht a day for the skilled laborers and 300 Baht a day for grunt laborers

So Don't really use the same materials....Increase in costs mainly attributable to Labor.......NIce try though

Treated lumber, professional built house with standards and inspection requirements to ensure safety and security will win my votes hand down everyday. USA wins

Concrete frame Thai house. Ha thats serious laughable. First it isnt real concrete frame. Its a pole with chicken wire inside. There is no foundation poured just a shallow hole with a form put inside. Then a bunch or unskilled labor mix concrete by hand on the ground outside and then pour that into the form by hand with buckets. That "frame" is crap work. Then let me help you with this, they take either mud red bricks or chalk "concrete" blocks line them up between the frames and a very haphazard manner then mud over it. Both bricks and blocks can be broken by hand they are poop.

And in the end you get what you pay for. An unprofessional job by unskilled labor with no inspections or over site to ensure safety or building standards are followed.

Id gladly pay for skilled labor. You get what you pay for like ive said over and over. And materials used in houses here are substandard.

Typical house here are crap. Everybody knows it.

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Timber framed houses are fine in the right setting but I often wondered why they build so many houses in tornado alley like this. Every time you see footage on the news you see whole villages raised to the ground and I often wonder why they don't just build concrete and brick houses. Obviously it must be down to the cost.

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[2fishin2]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the hill and in the case of the OP it wasnt and now he wants to go back. Nothing wrong with that. But Thailand isnt the US and vice vrs. Cant compare to each other in any way. You get what you pay for anywhere, but in Thailand its even worse.

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[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think there are merits to both sides of the argument, but for me, it comes down to this:

For the average person, what's their largest monthly expenditures:

Housing, less expensive in Thailand.

Health insurance & medical care, less expensive in Thailand

Various utilities and public services, less expensive in Thailand

Transportation, in the U.S., you pretty much need a car and insurance. In BKK, Pattaya and other places, you can do fine entirely without owning a car.

Women, less expensive in Thailand...

So for me, just strictly in financial terms, Thailand is clearly less expensive in the overall sense of things, even though certain things like imported food-drink, electronics, etc are more expensive here than in the U.S. But for most people, those more expensive things likely don't offset all the other relative financial savings in other areas.

Now, APART from finances, quality is a different issue. The food and water and air quality in Thailand are probably worse on average than in the U.S. Customer service worse in Thailand overall. Lack of legal rights and protections, worse in Thailand. Etc etc etc. But ability to lead a slower, more relaxed life, probably better in Thailand.

It all comes down to a balancing act, and making and accepting tradeoffs between different things.

[anotheruser]

So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai?

No cheese or wine? No single malts or cream cheese? No Doritos? No rib-eyes? No bacon and sausage for breakfast? No tacos or burritos? All of which are still cheaper in the States.

Living "frugally" can be quite a yawn inducing existence.

I understand your sentiments, but me, I'm not interested in "getting by." I'd rather work hard and play hard. I've got five years here non-stop myself, and can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat.

It's all relevant.

I lived like a Thai but I had plenty of money for "entertainment". 40,000 baht a month goes much further in Thailand than here. There is a lot of cheap food in the US but it is very unhealthy as you already know. I personally prefer Thai food to farang food. I seldom paid more than 30 baht for a good meal in Pattaya or northern Thailand.

Come back when you have some money. What visa were you on by the way?

[TuskegeeBen]

I think there are merits to both sides of the argument, but for me, it comes down to this:

For the average person, what's their largest monthly expenditures:

Housing, less expensive in Thailand.

Health insurance & medical care, less expensive in Thailand

Various utilities and public services, less expensive in Thailand

Transportation, in the U.S., you pretty much need a car and insurance. In BKK, Pattaya and other places, you can do fine entirely without owning a car.

Women, less expensive in Thailand...

So for me, just strictly in financial terms, Thailand is clearly less expensive in the overall sense of things, even though certain things like imported food-drink, electronics, etc are more expensive here than in the U.S. But for most people, those more expensive things likely don't offset all the other relative financial savings in other areas.

Now, APART from finances, quality is a different issue. The food and water and air quality in Thailand are probably worse on average than in the U.S. Customer service worse in Thailand overall. Lack of legal rights and protections, worse in Thailand. Etc etc etc. But ability to lead a slower, more relaxed life, probably better in Thailand.

It all comes down to a balancing act, and making and accepting tradeoffs between different things.

Well written , thanks

[thailiketoo]

I think there are merits to both sides of the argument, but for me, it comes down to this:

For the average person, what's their largest monthly expenditures:

Housing, less expensive in Thailand.

Health insurance & medical care, less expensive in Thailand

Various utilities and public services, less expensive in Thailand

Transportation, in the U.S., you pretty much need a car and insurance. In BKK, Pattaya and other places, you can do fine entirely without owning a car.

Women, less expensive in Thailand...

So for me, just strictly in financial terms, Thailand is clearly less expensive in the overall sense of things, even though certain things like imported food-drink, electronics, etc are more expensive here than in the U.S. But for most people, those more expensive things likely don't offset all the other relative financial savings in other areas.

Now, APART from finances, quality is a different issue. The food and water and air quality in Thailand are probably worse on average than in the U.S. Customer service worse in Thailand overall. Lack of legal rights and protections, worse in Thailand. Etc etc etc. But ability to lead a slower, more relaxed life, probably better in Thailand.

It all comes down to a balancing act, and making and accepting tradeoffs between different things.

You wrote, "I think there are merits to both sides of the argument" What is the argument?

Just to refresh everyone's memory the OP, "I just moved back to the states after living quite frugally 5 years in Thailand. Let's just say things are a bit more expensive here than what I was used to in Thailand. In Thailand I could get by quite ok on pretty much peanuts. I ate at 30-40 baht food stalls and stayed at 3-5k a month apartments. I get back here and the prices for everything are just stupid. I just about vomit at the prices here. Everything is so inflated cost-wise and I have to use my car to get everywhere. It makes me realize how good the value is in Thailand and how much easier it is to live over there. This place sucks and I'm getting out of here asap."

I don't see any argument. What is the argument?

[TuskegeeBen]

So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai?

No cheese or wine? No single malts or cream cheese? No Doritos? No rib-eyes? No bacon and sausage for breakfast? No tacos or burritos? All of which are still cheaper in the States.

Living "frugally" can be quite a yawn inducing existence.

I understand your sentiments, but me, I'm not interested in "getting by." I'd rather work hard and play hard. I've got five years here non-stop myself, and can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat.

It's all relevant.

I lived like a Thai but I had plenty of money for "entertainment". 40,000 baht a month goes much further in Thailand than here. There is a lot of cheap food in the US but it is very unhealthy as you already know. I personally prefer Thai food to farang food. I seldom paid more than 30 baht for a good meal in Pattaya or northern Thailand.

Come back when you have some money. What visa were you on by the way?

40,000 baht/month is nearly 3X more than what the average Thai person earns for working 10-12 hr. days, X 6-days/weekly. With 40K, anyone can live "comfortably" in Thailand, w/ money to monthly save.

[IAMSOBAD]

I think there are merits to both sides of the argument, but for me, it comes down to this:

For the average person, what's their largest monthly expenditures:

Housing, less expensive in Thailand.

Health insurance & medical care, less expensive in Thailand

Various utilities and public services, less expensive in Thailand

Transportation, in the U.S., you pretty much need a car and insurance. In BKK, Pattaya and other places, you can do fine entirely without owning a car.

Women, less expensive in Thailand...

So for me, just strictly in financial terms, Thailand is clearly less expensive in the overall sense of things, even though certain things like imported food-drink, electronics, etc are more expensive here than in the U.S. But for most people, those more expensive things likely don't offset all the other relative financial savings in other areas.

Now, APART from finances, quality is a different issue. The food and water and air quality in Thailand are probably worse on average than in the U.S. Customer service worse in Thailand overall. Lack of legal rights and protections, worse in Thailand. Etc etc etc. But ability to lead a slower, more relaxed life, probably better in Thailand.

It all comes down to a balancing act, and making and accepting tradeoffs between different things.

So are you staying or still looking at USA or Cambodia?

I miss driving a good car and the Atlantic Ocean beaches after 25 years in Beverly Hills and Marina Del Rey CA

and 9 years in Thailand.

PATTAYA is a sewer compared to beaches in FL.

Crime is everywhere but in FL I can carry a weapon. In Thailand only Thais can.

[balo]

Why are people comparing apples to oranges ?

Some things are probably better in the US than Thailand , if you can afford living there.

And if you were a millionaire you would probably not choose Thailand to retire in but another exotic location.

But we can all agree on that if you're monthly income is 40k baht , Thailand will give you a better value for money .

[JAFO]

I think there are merits to both sides of the argument, but for me, it comes down to this:

For the average person, what's their largest monthly expenditures:

Housing, less expensive in Thailand.

Health insurance & medical care, less expensive in Thailand

Various utilities and public services, less expensive in Thailand

Transportation, in the U.S., you pretty much need a car and insurance. In BKK, Pattaya and other places, you can do fine entirely without owning a car.

Women, less expensive in Thailand...

So for me, just strictly in financial terms, Thailand is clearly less expensive in the overall sense of things, even though certain things like imported food-drink, electronics, etc are more expensive here than in the U.S. But for most people, those more expensive things likely don't offset all the other relative financial savings in other areas.

Now, APART from finances, quality is a different issue. The food and water and air quality in Thailand are probably worse on average than in the U.S. Customer service worse in Thailand overall. Lack of legal rights and protections, worse in Thailand. Etc etc etc. But ability to lead a slower, more relaxed life, probably better in Thailand.

It all comes down to a balancing act, and making and accepting tradeoffs between different things.

You wrote, "I think there are merits to both sides of the argument" What is the argument?

Just to refresh everyone's memory the OP, "I just moved back to the states after living quite frugally 5 years in Thailand. Let's just say things are a bit more expensive here than what I was used to in Thailand. In Thailand I could get by quite ok on pretty much peanuts. I ate at 30-40 baht food stalls and stayed at 3-5k a month apartments. I get back here and the prices for everything are just stupid. I just about vomit at the prices here. Everything is so inflated cost-wise and I have to use my car to get everywhere. It makes me realize how good the value is in Thailand and how much easier it is to live over there. This place sucks and I'm getting out of here asap."

I don't see any argument. What is the argument?

The main reason why the cost of living (in the USA) is so inflated, is due to the fact that the "free-enterprise" system (Federal, State, County and City governments_included) have devised so many different, and sophisticated methods for taxing (extorting) every penny possible, from the working-class person's pocket, that the average American doesn't know whether to sh**, or go blind, anymore. An average of up to 30 million people in the USA, have no idea of where their next meal is coming from. A sad state of affairs, considering the USA , (according to country-western singer Moe Bandy's song "Americana") is supposedly the greatest country in the world! Huh? There are no starving people (anywhere) in Thailand.

@ Tuskegeeben, You are absolutely spot on. Along with what you noted lets add lawyers and attorneys to the mix of everything and this clearly explains why costs soared as businesses and people were forced into insurance extortion scams to protect themselves. Everything in America is backed by some sort of insurance policy and fee. Why is that? Medical costs are what they are due to all the insurance fees for malpractice or drug companies that have a medicine hurt 2 people out of the 40,000 it saved. You trip and fall here in the US on a lifted piece of walkway, Millions paid out to the dope who tripped. Burn yourself with hot coffee, Millions paid out to the tool who was inept. Get in a car wreck, scrap the car and pay the other person thousands. People here spend millions to cover their themselves from being sued. Hell people even have death and dismemberment insurance. Anyway try a stunt like that in Thailand tripping on a lifted piece of walkway and suing the govt, Simply won't happen, you trip, people help you up and you are on your way. Burn your lip on hot coffee, tough crap, you wont do that again. These things along with what you mentioned was my # 1 driver to exit. Living in Thailand I only have to read about it which is way better than paying for it.

As you stated, I suspect 80% of the people living today in the US have ZERO idea of all the hidden costs. Like good sheeple they just pay them. In some cases there are now laws that you have to pay. So as advanced as we say we are, as much as we spout at every sporting event that we are the "land of the free", there is simply nothing free about it except for the ones living on govt aid while the rest pay for it.

In my case I like the fact my decision to move was a cognizant one. I could easily stay and live in the US, but I chose Thailand.

[NeverSure]

As you stated, I suspect 80% of the people living today in the US have ZERO idea of all the hidden costs. Like good sheeple they just pay them. In some cases there are now laws that you have to pay.

What's this? The hidden costs are elsewhere. I buy a new Harley for US$18,000. A friend in Canada buys the same Harley for US$24,000. He pays almost twice as much as I do for gasoline.

The government skimmed $6K on his Harley and half the money he pays for gas, and then he brags that he gets "free" health care.

I see those hidden costs in the UK and Australia and THAILAND. I can't believe what some things cost in Thailand.

So slide off to Thailand with that 40k baht pm, have no healthcare insurance especially if you're getting older, live in a small flat and eat noodles, die young and all the while tell yourself what a great deal you're getting.