'I can take Kiev in two weeks', Vladimir Putin warns NATO leaders

[JemJem]

I am no fan of Putin but I think he seems to have the upper hand in the conflict. For example, don't you also get the feeling that US and EU talk, such as 'We will surely damage Russia by more and more sanctions' is most probably just wishful thinking ?!

[metisdead]

Inflammatory insulting posts have been removed as well as personal attacks:

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[BATHIK]

Soldiers’ Mothers has been taking the lead in trying to find answers about Russian casualties in Ukraine, but on Friday, the group’s St. Petersburg chapter was put under administrative control by the Ministry of Justice and classified as a “foreign agent” by the government.

That organization is financed by US government through NED, Russians are calling a spade a spade there.

As for their actual findings - no one seems to know what they are talking about. One day it's six soldiers, next day it's one hundred, next day it's another hundred but from another day, it's a rumor mill feeding two characters on Russian Human Rights Commission who then get quoted even wider.

Same as it works in Thailand with Prachatai and other red media.

[Matej]

There only were three annexations since 1945, which involved two sovereign states.

Sino-Indian War(fall 1962)

Mao Ce-tung's communist China took advantage of political and social riots in Nehru's India.

2 days long Iraq–Kuwait War(August 1990)

Saddam Hussein attacked Kuwait, which resulted in the seven-month long Iraqi occupation of Kuwait.

Russian annexation of the Crimean Peninsula(February and March 2014)

Recapitulation: communist China, Iraq, Russia and Mao Ce-tung, Saddam Hussein, Vladimir Putin

Russia is following the wrong footprints!

[balo]

Lets hope he will put Russia in a miserable state so we can enjoy Thailand without them. Oh thats right, he already did....

[Matej]

Lets hope he will put Russia in a miserable state so we can enjoy Thailand without them. Oh thats right, he already did....

The more miserable Russia will be, more Russian in Thailand/EU/USA will live, travel ...

Russian businessmen, oligarchs enjoying Europe. Their families live in Europe, their money is in EU's banks.

Russian don't believe in their own system ... Don't forget about that.

Three months ago(in EU) I called the police on drunken Russian students disturbing the peace after 22:00.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Matej

[BATHIK]

There only were three annexations since 1945, which involved two sovereign states.

Sino-Indian War(fall 1962)

Mao Ce-tung's communist China took advantage of political and social riots in Nehru's India.

2 days long Iraq–Kuwait War(August 1990)

Saddam Hussein attacked Kuwait, which resulted in the seven-month long Iraqi occupation of Kuwait.

Russian annexation of the Crimean Peninsula(February and March 2014)

Recapitulation: communist China, Iraq, Russia and Mao Ce-tung, Saddam Hussein, Vladimir Putin

Russia is following the wrong footprints!

Semantics, Crimea voted for independence first, then voted to join Russia.

Russians used precedent set by Kosovo where part of a sovereign state was taken by force and eventually turned into an independent entity.

Kosovo, of course, is not your list. Oh well.

[Matej]

There only were three annexations since 1945, which involved two sovereign states.

Sino-Indian War(fall 1962)

Mao Ce-tung's communist China took advantage of political and social riots in Nehru's India.

2 days long Iraq–Kuwait War(August 1990)

Saddam Hussein attacked Kuwait, which resulted in the seven-month long Iraqi occupation of Kuwait.

Russian annexation of the Crimean Peninsula(February and March 2014)

Recapitulation: communist China, Iraq, Russia and Mao Ce-tung, Saddam Hussein, Vladimir Putin

Russia is following the wrong footprints!

Semantics, Crimea voted for independence first, then voted to join Russia.

Russians used precedent set by Kosovo where part of a sovereign state was taken by force and eventually turned into an independent entity.

Kosovo, of course, is not your list. Oh well.

Of course I forget about independent referendum, sanctified by Hungarian neonacist party Jobbik, extremists, populists from whole Europe and communist parties. Also important is russian propaganda, ask ordinary russian countrymen if they want to have standard of living like the West and then announce referendum.

Kosovo doesn't belong to my list.

It was different type of conflict.

[BATHIK]

Since it's Saturday we all can relax a bit, I suppose.

There are Russians protesting against the war, too. This was yesterday in St Petersbug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eELJLzuEbgo

Tell me if you need translation.

Over in Ukraine local patriots responded to ice bucket challenge by eating Ukrainian version of wasabi, horseradish, or "khren", which also happens to be a swear word in Russian and in this case would be a milder form of "f*** you". There were tears all around, not sure if Putin was moved, too.

In Zaporozhye, next to Donbass, they've discovered nearly a ton of discarded human flesh, mostly amputated limbs. A TON. The company that was supposed to take this medical refuse to crematorium just dumped it in the forest. The bulk of the wounded weren't even treated there but in neighboring Dnepropetrovsk. War creates all sorts of unexpected problems, I guess.

Edited September 6, 2014 by BATHIK

[Pakboong]

I simply cannot let go of the notion that the murderous Russians must have snuck back into Russia pretty much like they snuck across the border for the invasion. If anyone has photo evidence if this retreat, please share it. This could actually be the no-brainer of the century. The best part of this is that every "credible source" reported the invasion. What does that say about the credible source nonsense?

I did notice that there was no provision in the cease fire for a Russian withdrawal. Would anyone like to take a crack at why?

[Publicus]

The US Is Sending 200 Soldiers To Ukraine For Military Exercises

1300 Nato and other forces from 14 countries to enter Ukraine

About 200 paratroopers from the U.S. Army's 173rd Airborne Brigade will join allied military exercises in Ukraine despite Moscow's warnings against a NATO presence during the ongoing crisis in eastern Ukraine, the Pentagon said Wednesday.

The exercise will involve approximately 1,300 personnel from nations including Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Canada, Georgia, Germany, Britain, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Norway, Poland, Romania, and Spain. In addition, the U.S. guided-missile destroyer Ross will participate with Ukrainian ships in Sea Breeze naval exercises in the Black Sea from Sept. 8-10, Warren said

.

In another sign of increasing NATO activity in Eastern Europe, six U.S. F-16 fighters from the 31st Fighter Wing based in Aviano, Italy, and 120 support personnel were headed to the Lask air base in Poland, Warren said. From Lask, the F-16s will participate in the Joint Terminal Attack air defense exercise in the Czech Republic from Sept. 4-8.

Read more: http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/09/04/sky-soldiers-head-to-ukraine-for-joint-exercises.html#ixzz3CcLLIjT6


In Ukraine.

Not near Ukraine, but in Ukraine, inside the borders of Ukraine, on Ukrainian soil.

Nato military forces.

The one thing Putin will not do is to engage Nato. Ras-Putin absolutely will not engage Nato. Nato burned Russia badly in the Kosovo intervention in 1999 and if necessary Nato will burn Russia again in Ukraine. And with swift certainty.

Why?

This is Europe. Kosovo and Ukraine are Europe. And it is Nato. This is not Afghanistan. This is not Iraq. Nor is it Vietnam. Putin is initiating a military menace to the wrong people in the wrong place, the Europeans in Europe.

Yes the Nato Europeans do their required hand wringing over use of military force, their compulsory agonizing over committing to the use of military force. The Europeans predictable machinations over the use of military force were awfully and surprisingly brief in this instance however.

That's because this is in Europe itself.

It's long past time we saw the vanishing ass end of Putin at the Ukraine border.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Publicus

[BATHIK]

Germans reported that in preparation to the current summit NATO officials were considering directing missile shield in Eastern Europe against Russia, just as Russia accused them all along.

As they say, just because Putin is paranoid it doesn't mean they are not after him. Cannot trust these guys with anything, whatever they do, Russians should react to potential threat, not to their stated objectives even if they come from their highest officials. Words and promises mean nothing here.

[Publicus]

Germans reported that in preparation to the current summit NATO officials were considering directing missile shield in Eastern Europe against Russia, just as Russia accused them all along.

As they say, just because Putin is paranoid it doesn't mean they are not after him. Cannot trust these guys with anything, whatever they do, Russians should react to potential threat, not to their stated objectives even if they come from their highest officials. Words and promises mean nothing here.

A missile shield is, well, a shield.

Protection.

Defense.

An "Iron Dome."

Some people can't identify or recognize the difference between a shield or a sword.

Given Moscow's very recent talk about its massive nuclear weapons arsenal, the Nato countries considering some kind of protective shield isn't a bad idea. Ras-Putin is not doing well in this hothouse mess he initiated and I'm beginning to think and fear Ras just might be loony enough...........

I say again because it doesn't seem to be getting through to the people who need to hear it most: This is Europe. Kosovo and Ukraine are Europe. And it is Nato. This is not Afghanistan. This is not Iraq. Nor is it Vietnam. Putin is initiating a military menace to the wrong people in the wrong place, the Europeans in Europe.

Europe.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Publicus

[mccw]

Big balls

Shame Britain doesn't produce leaders like this any more.

[Matej]

Germans reported that in preparation to the current summit NATO officials were considering directing missile shield in Eastern Europe against Russia, just as Russia accused them all along.

As they say, just because Putin is paranoid it doesn't mean they are not after him. Cannot trust these guys with anything, whatever they do, Russians should react to potential threat, not to their stated objectives even if they come from their highest officials. Words and promises mean nothing here.

That was not Germans, that was Russian 'Ministry of Truth', you, who reported this.

The article deals with defense system, considering is also important word ...

More interesting question is why the Kremlin is feeding Russians with propaganda that NATO wants to 'attack' Russia?

It's a total nonsense. Paranoia.

Every rouge state needs an enemy. Someone to hate and have fear of ...

[balo]

War is coming to Europe. Thailand feels like a safe place to stay in now.

[Matej]

War is coming to Europe. Thailand feels like a safe place to stay in now.

War already is in Europe!

[mania]

I say again because it doesn't seem to be getting through to the people who need to hear it most: This is Europe. Kosovo and Ukraine are Europe. And it is Nato. This is not Afghanistan. This is not Iraq. Nor is it Vietnam. Putin is initiating a military menace to the wrong people in the wrong place, the Europeans in Europe.

Europe.

I think most understand this but....On the other hand it is a very sad telling statement too.

Implies....

Animal Farm: 'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

[Publicus]

Russia to Hold Major Nuclear Exercise

by Mike Hoffman on September 4, 2014

The Russian military branch responsible for the country’s nuclear arsenal will hold a nuclear exercise in September that will include over 4,000 Russian troops, according to reports out of Russia.

Russian Defence Ministry officials announced that nuclear forces will conduct “combat missions in conditions of active radio-electronic jamming and intensive enemy actions in areas of troop deployment.” Russian troops will also work to counter “irregular units and high-precision weapons.”

The announcement comes as NATO leaders meet in Wales to discuss the conflict in Ukraine and the war in Afghanistan. The exercise also comes days after Russian President Vladimir Putin highlighted his nuclear force at a youth forum.

“I want to remind you that Russia is one of the most powerful nuclear nations,” Putin said. “This is a reality, not just words."

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2014/09/04/russia-to-hold-major-nuclear-exercise-this-month/#ixzz3Cg3jRQhY
Defense.org

Who can support or defend this Rasputin of a character who comes at the world as if from an Ian Fleming novel, as some kind of leader of Spectre in a James Bond movie, except Putin is for real. Putin is beginning to make Joe Stalin look like he might have been a diplomat.

And making these statements to school children as if the world hadn't already got the message that any parent anywhere would get, in Europe especially.

The guy is talking nuclear weapons. Putin is downright mad or so he would try to have us believe.....or maybe he is mad.

This wild and off the wall talk does decisively confirm what Western intelligence has known for two decades, which is that Russian conventional military forces are so inadequate that they are not a factor in Putin's arsenal. Western military and diplomatic intelligence has known for a score of years the Russian military is dilapidated, insufficient even to protect Russia against a major land invasion, incapable due to its lack of resources across the board.

Russia has high tech military capabilities to include cyber warfare, but its conventional military forces are a rusted wreckage of relics.

If Ras-Putin had an adequate conventional military force he would wield that as his weapon of choice instead of having to throw all his chips into the nuclear pot. His 20,000 combat forces at the Ukraine border, which would be turned back far from Kiev, are an insufficient invasion force against even the stretched and strained Ukraine military and is a clear statement of Russia's woeful military posture and weakness.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Publicus

[Pakboong]

Russia to Hold Major Nuclear Exercise

by Mike Hoffman on September 4, 2014

The Russian military branch responsible for the country’s nuclear arsenal will hold a nuclear exercise in September that will include over 4,000 Russian troops, according to reports out of Russia.

Russian Defence Ministry officials announced that nuclear forces will conduct “combat missions in conditions of active radio-electronic jamming and intensive enemy actions in areas of troop deployment.” Russian troops will also work to counter “irregular units and high-precision weapons.”

The announcement comes as NATO leaders meet in Wales to discuss the conflict in Ukraine and the war in Afghanistan. The exercise also comes days after Russian President Vladimir Putin highlighted his nuclear force at a youth forum.

“I want to remind you that Russia is one of the most powerful nuclear nations,” Putin said. “This is a reality, not just words."

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2014/09/04/russia-to-hold-major-nuclear-exercise-this-month/#ixzz3Cg3jRQhY

Defense.org

Who can support or defend this Rasputin of a character who comes at the world as if from an Ian Fleming novel, as some kind of leader of Spectre in a James Bond movie, except Putin is for real. Putin is beginning to make Joe Stalin look like he might have been a diplomat.

And making these statements to school children as if the world hadn't already got the message that any parent anywhere would get, in Europe especially.

The guy is talking nuclear weapons. Putin is downright mad or so he would try to have us believe.....or maybe he is mad.

This wild and off the wall talk does decisively confirm what Western intelligence has known for two decades, which is that Russian conventional military forces are so inadequate that they are not a factor in Putin's arsenal. Western military and diplomatic intelligence has known for a score of years the Russian military is dilapidated, insufficient even to protect Russia against a major land invasion, incapable due to its lack of resources across the board.

Russia has high tech military capabilities to include cyber warfare, but its conventional military forces are a rusted wreckage of relics.

If Ras-Putin had an adequate conventional military force he would wield that as his weapon of choice instead of having to throw all his chips into the nuclear pot. His 20,000 combat forces at the Ukraine border, which would be turned back far from Kiev, are an insufficient invasion force against even the stretched and strained Ukraine military and is a clear statement of Russia's woeful military posture and weakness.

What you have claimed here about the Russian conventional forces is true or very close to it. It clearly speaks to why Putin would not attack anyone on the ground. It is very contradictory to your point regarding Russian aggression. Of course Russia has a large nuclear arsenal but they are very unlikely to use it. Nobody is defending Putin, some of us are defending the logic that Putin has no serious reason to attack the Ukraine, nor anyone else at this particular time. He needs his plan to enhance his country's economic posture via BRICS. All logic points to reasons he would not attack.

[Publicus]

Russia to Hold Major Nuclear Exercise

by Mike Hoffman on September 4, 2014

The Russian military branch responsible for the country’s nuclear arsenal will hold a nuclear exercise in September that will include over 4,000 Russian troops, according to reports out of Russia.

Russian Defence Ministry officials announced that nuclear forces will conduct “combat missions in conditions of active radio-electronic jamming and intensive enemy actions in areas of troop deployment.” Russian troops will also work to counter “irregular units and high-precision weapons.”

The announcement comes as NATO leaders meet in Wales to discuss the conflict in Ukraine and the war in Afghanistan. The exercise also comes days after Russian President Vladimir Putin highlighted his nuclear force at a youth forum.

“I want to remind you that Russia is one of the most powerful nuclear nations,” Putin said. “This is a reality, not just words."

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2014/09/04/russia-to-hold-major-nuclear-exercise-this-month/#ixzz3Cg3jRQhY

Defense.org

Who can support or defend this Rasputin of a character who comes at the world as if from an Ian Fleming novel, as some kind of leader of Spectre in a James Bond movie, except Putin is for real. Putin is beginning to make Joe Stalin look like he might have been a diplomat.

And making these statements to school children as if the world hadn't already got the message that any parent anywhere would get, in Europe especially.

The guy is talking nuclear weapons. Putin is downright mad or so he would try to have us believe.....or maybe he is mad.

This wild and off the wall talk does decisively confirm what Western intelligence has known for two decades, which is that Russian conventional military forces are so inadequate that they are not a factor in Putin's arsenal. Western military and diplomatic intelligence has known for a score of years the Russian military is dilapidated, insufficient even to protect Russia against a major land invasion, incapable due to its lack of resources across the board.

Russia has high tech military capabilities to include cyber warfare, but its conventional military forces are a rusted wreckage of relics.

If Ras-Putin had an adequate conventional military force he would wield that as his weapon of choice instead of having to throw all his chips into the nuclear pot. His 20,000 combat forces at the Ukraine border, which would be turned back far from Kiev, are an insufficient invasion force against even the stretched and strained Ukraine military and is a clear statement of Russia's woeful military posture and weakness.

What you have claimed here about the Russian conventional forces is true or very close to it. It clearly speaks to why Putin would not attack anyone on the ground. It is very contradictory to your point regarding Russian aggression. Of course Russia has a large nuclear arsenal but they are very unlikely to use it. Nobody is defending Putin, some of us are defending the logic that Putin has no serious reason to attack the Ukraine, nor anyone else at this particular time. He needs his plan to enhance his country's economic posture via BRICS. All logic points to reasons he would not attack.

Brics again. I don't think I have to rehash that the Brics are an artificial construct that is a big nothing going nowhere. Ras-Putin and his Brics leaders aren't the only people suffering serious delusions.

I would only add the Brics are seeing who and what the madman is in the Putin who's tossing nuclear weapons around in discussion as if they were grenades in Ukraine. If the other Brics want to align with that and then try to deal with other countries and regions of the world then the Brics aren't going to find many friends or partners of any sort. The Brics aligned with a nutcase who is militarily menacing and threatening Europe with the Brics as a reason he's being a menace is going to lead to global rearmament.

The global disintegration disorder and chaos people would like that I'm sure because before you can have the Brics dominating the world you first have to rid the world of the United States, Europe, democracy, modern market economics, liberalism, human rights. That's a tall order which is why you've failed already.The Brics new development bank won't be operational for another five years if ever, and in USDollars besides. That's absurd.

And yes Ras is doing the only things he can do in Ukraine, which is to organize, arm, supply in the Ukraine those loyal to Russia and also to send his military forces in to Ukraine clandestinely, without fanfare and without conducting an outright invasion. Ras would need much more time and resources to severely degrade the Ukraine military for him to believe his measly 20,000 troops at the border could have any possibility of conducting a successful invasion of a country the size of Ukraine. A long term Putin campaign of degrading the Ukraine armed forces won't happen because Putin can't sustain the Russian military casualties nor does he have the resources to begin with.

So any overt outright direct Russian invasion of Ukraine at any time under any circumstances is operationally problematic, but does Ras know that. Putin doesn't know the Brics are a loser and Putin doesn't know that he himself is a loser so I don't know what he may know.

And to think, all this is going on to advance the Brics to eventual global domination. You people are mad and dangerous. Mad Max dangerous.

.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Publicus

[Matej]

What scares me the most when I'm listening politicians(for example in EU, Viktor Orban(PM), Robert Fico(PM), Milos Zeman(president), Hollande ... ), businessmen and also ordinary people, sometimes even analysts, is how superficial this discussion is. I mean approach: Is it war? Is it not war? It will start war?

Guessing! Nothing else only guessing. USA is waiting on EU, EU is waiting on USA, EU and USA are waiting on NATO and everyone is waiting on 'miracle'.

'Miracle' - something will happen, we have to wait ...

This is strategic concept? Policy?

Where are analyses - what is the United States', EU's, Ukraine's interest, Russian motivation ...

Vladimir Putin uses many weapons, the confusing and fast-changing combination of regular and irregular forces, economic sanctions,

energy blockades, political destabilization, information warfare, financial panics, cyber-attacks.

This is ideological war between one world(the West) and second world(Putin's world).

Why is Russia supporting extremist and populist parties in Europe? (this is a proven fact)

They want to help us with our European project? I don't think so ...

Breakup of UK and President Marine le Pen of France both possible. Europe as we know it may be coming to an end.

Russia is winning. Russia has not only challenged the European security
order and seized another country’s territory – Crimea: it is now in the process
of seizing more, creating a puppet state, Novorossiya.

The United States is distracted by multiple problems elsewhere and many Americans wonder why they should be borrowing money
to pay for security in bigger and richer Europe.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Matej

[BATHIK]

Nato shmato, in real life it might look a lot like this:

Enjoy this insane animation, at least Russian fantasy world looks cool. The company that designs this are probably only patent trolling with no intention to actually produce anything of the kind.

In real life Russians sell this, however:

Hope it would make everybody's Monday feel a bit better, men usually get a hard on for this king of thing regardless of politics. I'm not yet in the mood to explain why NATO missile shield is considered a threat by Russians.

German Spiegel posts Kremlin propaganda, seriously?

[Matej]

Nato shmato, in real life it might look a lot like this:

Enjoy this insane animation, at least Russian fantasy world looks cool. The company that designs this are probably only patent trolling with no intention to actually produce anything of the kind.

In real life Russians sell this, however:

Hope it would make everybody's Monday feel a bit better, men usually get a hard on for this king of thing regardless of politics. I'm not yet in the mood to explain why NATO missile shield is considered a threat by Russians.

German Spiegel posts Kremlin propaganda, seriously?

You're living in Matrix, in stalinist propaganda.

[Pakboong]

Russia to Hold Major Nuclear Exercise

by Mike Hoffman on September 4, 2014

The Russian military branch responsible for the country’s nuclear arsenal will hold a nuclear exercise in September that will include over 4,000 Russian troops, according to reports out of Russia.

Russian Defence Ministry officials announced that nuclear forces will conduct “combat missions in conditions of active radio-electronic jamming and intensive enemy actions in areas of troop deployment.” Russian troops will also work to counter “irregular units and high-precision weapons.”

The announcement comes as NATO leaders meet in Wales to discuss the conflict in Ukraine and the war in Afghanistan. The exercise also comes days after Russian President Vladimir Putin highlighted his nuclear force at a youth forum.

“I want to remind you that Russia is one of the most powerful nuclear nations,” Putin said. “This is a reality, not just words."

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2014/09/04/russia-to-hold-major-nuclear-exercise-this-month/#ixzz3Cg3jRQhY

Defense.org

Who can support or defend this Rasputin of a character who comes at the world as if from an Ian Fleming novel, as some kind of leader of Spectre in a James Bond movie, except Putin is for real. Putin is beginning to make Joe Stalin look like he might have been a diplomat.

And making these statements to school children as if the world hadn't already got the message that any parent anywhere would get, in Europe especially.

The guy is talking nuclear weapons. Putin is downright mad or so he would try to have us believe.....or maybe he is mad.

This wild and off the wall talk does decisively confirm what Western intelligence has known for two decades, which is that Russian conventional military forces are so inadequate that they are not a factor in Putin's arsenal. Western military and diplomatic intelligence has known for a score of years the Russian military is dilapidated, insufficient even to protect Russia against a major land invasion, incapable due to its lack of resources across the board.

Russia has high tech military capabilities to include cyber warfare, but its conventional military forces are a rusted wreckage of relics.

If Ras-Putin had an adequate conventional military force he would wield that as his weapon of choice instead of having to throw all his chips into the nuclear pot. His 20,000 combat forces at the Ukraine border, which would be turned back far from Kiev, are an insufficient invasion force against even the stretched and strained Ukraine military and is a clear statement of Russia's woeful military posture and weakness.

What you have claimed here about the Russian conventional forces is true or very close to it. It clearly speaks to why Putin would not attack anyone on the ground. It is very contradictory to your point regarding Russian aggression. Of course Russia has a large nuclear arsenal but they are very unlikely to use it. Nobody is defending Putin, some of us are defending the logic that Putin has no serious reason to attack the Ukraine, nor anyone else at this particular time. He needs his plan to enhance his country's economic posture via BRICS. All logic points to reasons he would not attack.

Brics again. I don't think I have to rehash that the Brics are an artificial construct that is a big nothing going nowhere. Ras-Putin and his Brics leaders aren't the only people suffering serious delusions.

I would only add the Brics are seeing who and what the madman is in the Putin who's tossing nuclear weapons around in discussion as if they were grenades in Ukraine. If the other Brics want to align with that and then try to deal with other countries and regions of the world then the Brics aren't going to find many friends or partners of any sort. The Brics aligned with a nutcase who is militarily menacing and threatening Europe with the Brics as a reason he's being a menace is going to lead to global rearmament.

The global disintegration disorder and chaos people would like that I'm sure because before you can have the Brics dominating the world you first have to rid the world of the United States, Europe, democracy, modern market economics, liberalism, human rights. That's a tall order which is why you've failed already.The Brics new development bank won't be operational for another five years if ever, and in USDollars besides. That's absurd.

And yes Ras is doing the only things he can do in Ukraine, which is to organize, arm, supply in the Ukraine those loyal to Russia and also to send his military forces in to Ukraine clandestinely, without fanfare and without conducting an outright invasion. Ras would need much more time and resources to severely degrade the Ukraine military for him to believe his measly 20,000 troops at the border could have any possibility of conducting a successful invasion of a country the size of Ukraine. A long term Putin campaign of degrading the Ukraine armed forces won't happen because Putin can't sustain the Russian military casualties nor does he have the resources to begin with.

So any overt outright direct Russian invasion of Ukraine at any time under any circumstances is operationally problematic, but does Ras know that. Putin doesn't know the Brics are a loser and Putin doesn't know that he himself is a loser so I don't know what he may know.

And to think, all this is going on to advance the Brics to eventual global domination. You people are mad and dangerous. Mad Max dangerous.

.

BRICS is not a military alliance. It is designed to compete with the IMF. Of course it could become one at some point. It is too far out to tell and nobody is saying that BRICS is even a good idea. All I continue to say about BRICS is that Putin is totally committed to it and will not risk any nonsensical fight unless he is attacked.

[BATHIK]

You're living in Matrix, in stalinist propaganda.

Stalin couldn't even dream of such weapons system. Klub K from the second video is deployed in Algeria, India, Vietnam, and China, and Iran and Malaysia are thinking about buying it, too. And since, according to you, Stalinist propaganda now owns Spiegel, the Matrix must have taken over the whole world.

Why am I even replying to this? You are just flaming.

BRICs want to end dependency on US dollar, that would be the measure of their success, not their GDP growth or stock market levels, as some here assume. Every time they trade in dollar they have to spend their profits on investing in US, usually by financing the US debt. BRICs think that convenience of trading in dollar doesn't justify losses from propping the Americans and their insane spending habits.

There's nothing the US can do about it in the long term - it's supply and demand, BRICs WILL eventually find the way to get what they want. They want to untie their well-being from that of the US which they see as a lost cause, morally and financially bankrupt, and supporting itself by bullying others or financial shenanigans like this unprecedented QED.

These things are like viagra - they make you perform for a while but can't change the fact that you are old, useless, and have no future. All empires die, the US is not going to be an exception, and BRICs are simply preparing themselves. China. India, and Russia are much older societies that have reinvented themselves numerous times, they'll survive.

The US? Not so sure, they might never see a white male president again, for example. After Obama it's turn of women and Hispanics, and by the time they are through with it, whites will be in minority.

With the ceasefire and Barroso expressed desire to end this "two weeks" claim quietly this topic has run its course.

[smileydude]

Geopolitics create wars.

Leaders ego's certainly provoke them further.

Feels like Putin's calling his bluff and playing chicken as they all know its a lose-lose war for everybody unless leaders define annihilation of yourself and your enemies as winning.

Chicken (game)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The game of chicken, also known as the hawk-dove game or snowdrift^[1] game, is an influential model of conflict for two players in game theory. The principle of the game is that while each player prefers not to yield to the other, the worst possible outcome occurs when both players do not yield.

The name "chicken" has its origins in a game in which two drivers drive towards each other on a collision course: one must swerve, or both may die in the crash, but if one driver swerves and the other does not, the one who swerved will be called a "chicken," meaning a coward; this terminology is most prevalent in political science and economics. The name "Hawk-Dove" refers to a situation in which there is a competition for a shared resource and the contestants can choose either conciliation or conflict; this terminology is most commonly used in biology and evolutionary game theory. From a game-theoretic point of view, "chicken" and "hawk-dove" are identical; the different names stem from parallel development of the basic principles in different research areas.^[2] The game has also been used to describe the mutual assured destruction of nuclear warfare, especially the sort of brinkmanship involved in the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Edited September 8, 2014 by smileydude

[BATHIK]

Putin is not as much in control in Ukraine as media makes him to be. Even if he is officially at the top, the chain from him to fighters on the ground is pretty long and managed by people powerful in their own right. They might be Putin's lieutenants but they have their own interests and abuse their proximity to Putin for their own ends.

Even if the ceasefire holds and some political solution is worked out, no one will come out victorious, save for Russian and Donbass oligarchs who financed this whole affair. And since no one really cares about them the war will go on, both rebels and Ukrainians have their own causes they are not going to forget.

Putin's "if I could I would" was simply a reminder that the rules of this war are very very different, it has to run its own course with no one really in charge.

[BATHIK]

Look at Forbes recent headline:

Three Reasons Why Putin Laughs At Impotent America

[hard124get]

EUROOE, full embargo on all impirts/ expirts to Russia.

Eurooe, restrict/ freeze all financial transactions to Russia.

Opec, drop prices on oil to europe.

Russia becomes a 3rd world nation overnight.

Russia is relegated to the dark ages.. no cash...no power!!

If that were to happen, there would be a freeze alright. across Europe ! Russian gas cannot be replaced before winter. Russia will export to China, and other BRICS nations.It could cripple US economy if it demanded payments in any currency other than the USD.