Dual-pricing is scaring tourists away: Thai editorial

[EnzoRippo]

Musée du Louvre, Paris

French, 12 €

Foreigners, 12 €

Thai nationals, 24 €

[Nowisee]

The Nat Park on Koh Lanta, which is a shithole and waste of money, refused to let me pay the normal park entrance fee I pay at every other park.
I not only got ripped off, but was VERY disappointed in the park... never going there again and I would not recommend it to anyone.

Also, I have refused to pay at the temple on Doi Suthep 2 times now. I tell the thief at the top to call the police and just walked in.

I will not go there any more.

Maybe time to start hanging out more in Indonesia.

[wilcopops]

I think this thread show 2 things....

! - The concept of 2 tier pricing is very unpopular.

2 - There is a large number of people on this thread who are so paranoid and racist, they will never be able to work out if it's 2 tier pricing or just their own shear ineptness that gets them charged over the odds.

Edited September 4, 2014 by wilcopops

[smotherb]

From my home state (Texas). Hunting license fees

Resident Hunting $25.00

Senior Resident Hunting $7.00

General Non-Resident Hunting $315.00

For those who claim there is no price discrimination in other places... It's all over, not just in Thailand. Look back over the dozens of dual pricing threads and you'll find hundreds of examples posted.

source: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/licenses/public/recreational/

How about "blacks pay double fee", which is essentially how Thai double pricing is done (but reversed).

Wow, a double whammy!

Impulse:

Do you think hunting fees may be local government regulated and perhaps, just perhaps; tax paying local citizens receive a discount because they do pay taxes locally?

Do you not agree, there is justification for dual pricing in situations where the lesser-price-based person accrues discount because they have provided services or assets to the owner of the entity being priced?

I'm simply saying double pricing is not unique to Thailand. It's easy to show that one type of dual pricing is different or justified. But it's still dual pricing- with some hurdle (other than skin color) that can put you on the other side of the duality. In Thailand, my WP gets me into most places at local prices and a Thai passport would get me into the rest- if I wanted to go through the trouble of getting Thai citizenship- as several of my coworkers have done.

Racism and skin color has nothing to do with it. I have never seen an instance where a light skin Thai got charged more or less than a dark skinned Thai.

But the arguments here usually come down to one type of dual pricing isn't affecting me (and it's okay and perfectly justified), and another one that does affect me is just plain wrong.

From a business perspective, dual pricing makes perfect sense. If everyone paid the Thai price, the place (pick your spot, any spot) would be jammed packed and still go broke. If everyone had to pay the foreigner price, the local masses couldn't afford it, place would be pretty sparse, and still go broke. It's all about overhead absorption and incremental business.

Best example I have is Dornan's Spur Ranch Cabins in Moose, Wyoming- at the base of the Grand Tetons. An experience not to be missed (if it's still in business- it's been 15 years). When I had Wyoming plates, I got a significant discount to stay there. The reason- Wyoming residents were repeat customers, a lot of us staying many weekends per year. We stayed there in the high seasons (summer and ski season). We stayed there in the low seasons (spring and fall). We absorbed a lot of their overhead. Tourists stayed a few days or a week, and generally only in the summer or ski season- when the place would be full anyway. They paid full price. (In the days before Hotels.com)

I'm sure someone else can tell me why Dornan's dual pricing policy is vastly different than dual pricing in Thailand. And why their dual pricing was okay, but the dual pricing in Thailand is just plain wrong. Bottom line- it was dual pricing and discriminatory. And it happens all over- not just Thailand.

My pet peeve? Show up at a hotel desk with an Exxon or Siemens business card and your corporate rate will generally be half of what I pay- even when I lived out of hotels for 200+ days a year. Dual pricing based on employment. Fair? I think not. But the world doesn't guarantee fairness.

Great explanation and examples.

[Bluespunk]

Just imagine the uproar if a country like the US or UK increased prices for attractions, based on nationality of the buyer.. it would be a non-stater.

Based on skin color of customer is more accurate.

And please, let's not have all the numbnuts suggesting local pricing happens all over the world.

Thailand operates RACIAL pricing.

I have no problem with discounts for locals, I do have a problem with dual pricing based on racism.

Nationalistic but not racist.

Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.

Charles de Gaulle)

Sounds fairly racist to me.

[brewsterbudgen]

Just imagine the uproar if a country like the US or UK increased prices for attractions, based on nationality of the buyer.. it would be a non-stater.

Based on skin color of customer is more accurate.

And please, let's not have all the numbnuts suggesting local pricing happens all over the world.

Thailand operates RACIAL pricing.

I have no problem with discounts for locals, I do have a problem with dual pricing based on racism.

Nationalistic but not racist.

It's not nationalistic if it based on skin color.

It isn't based on skin colour. If you have a Thai driving licence, work permit or tax certificate to show you pay Thai income tax, you pay the Thai price.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

It isn't based on skin colour. If you have a Thai driving licence, work permit or tax certificate to show you pay Thai income tax, you pay the Thai price.

If you're white they ask for higher price.

If you're Asian they ask for lower price.

Sure if you're white you can show ID, but if you're Asian no ID required.

If this wasn't racist, they would ask everyone, Asian, Black and white for ID.

[bangkapi]

I don't mind the dual pricing if the difference is nominal or insignificant.

It's the huge price difference in multiples that make one feel that they are being told to go to hell, or at least to "go home".

[wilcopops]

It isn't based on skin colour. If you have a Thai driving licence, work permit or tax certificate to show you pay Thai income tax, you pay the Thai price.

If you're white they ask for higher price.

If you're Asian they ask for lower price.

Sure if you're white you can show ID, but if you're Asian no ID required.

If this wasn't racist, they would ask everyone, Asian, Black and white for ID.

Interesting - where did you get that idea...it is of course completely untrue.

[wilcopops]

attend a German Course at the local community Centre it would be nice if I could on the same basis as a local student. I would be in a similar situation in Australia.

Visitors who want to un-educate themselves would consult Thai Government offices...like their cultural course, or tourist police (farce).

No free programs if thats what you mean! Not like in Germany Australia nor the US educating immigrants.

My point is that anyone not a visitor would be able to receive education in Austalia at the same cost. The English course was given as an example of what a visitor might like to do. Anyone not a visitor gets education fee, in fact their children have to go. Charges at private education facilities are them same whether Australian citizen or a a non temporary visa holder. A non temporary visa would include all workers or people hwho are on married visas.

"My point is that anyone not a visitor would be able to receive education in Australia at the same cost." this is gobbledegook.

If you mean that non-Australians pay the same price that is absolute nonsense - one of the most lucrative sources of income for Aussie Unies is their Asian students who pay premium fees.

Anyhow, you're comparing apples and oranges, the argument is completely irrelevant.

[harrry]

My point is that anyone not a visitor would be able to receive education in Austalia at the same cost. The English course was given as an example of what a visitor might like to do. Anyone not a visitor gets education fee, in fact their children have to go. Charges at private education facilities are them same whether Australian citizen or a a non temporary visa holder. A non temporary visa would include all workers or people hwho are on married visas.

"My point is that anyone not a visitor would be able to receive education in Australia at the same cost." this is gobbledegook.

If you mean that non-Australians pay the same price that is absolute nonsense - one of the most lucrative sources of income for Aussie Unies is their Asian students who pay premium fees.

Anyhow, you're comparing apples and oranges, the argument is completely irrelevant.

Students are not residents outside of their student status. If they are residents in Australia they are treated the same as anyone else.

[Shurup]

Oh boy, that escalated quickly - 280 replies in one day.

[CM4Me]

I have lived in Thailand for almost 11 years.

I often have tourist from my old country that come for a visit, during which I am usually the chauffeur.

There are a number of places in my province that have dual pricing. I am aware of these and I never, repeat never, take my guests to such establishments. In my opinion these establishments are the loosers.

[ableguy]

Thais are poor. Falang rich.When Thais go to Falangland, Thais always get charge expensive Falang price.So when Falang in Thailand, they should also pay expensive Falang price.This is the universal law of same same no change.If falang want to pay thai price in thailand, falang should also charge cheaper thai price to thai people while in falangland.

Go back to sleep.

[attento]

I don't believe it. Most first-time visitors dont check that sort of detail. The sort of tourists that Thailand are seeking, those with money to spend, are attracted by the ads for comfortable accommodation, courteous locals, pleasant food, sunshine, sandy beaches and warm seas. They are not likely to be deterred by local prices. They will have paid for their package holiday in advance, and arrive with a quantity of Baht to spend where they choose on non-essentials.

However, first time visitors will be deterred by TV News reports of political insecurity, street violence, crime, corrupt police, health scares, etc.

Tourists are more likely to be deterred from making return visits by the bad behaviour of other tourists, by poor service, by low quality accommodation, by "jet ski" and "taxi rip-off" type scams, etc. These are the real things which ruin a holiday.

Message to Tourist Board, don't blame the street vendors and shops for their prices, - tourists are not forced to buy. The real target for your concerns is something/somebody you probably are not prepared to face.

Edited September 4, 2014 by attento

[Till]

If your not Thai you must pay more

its not the act of doing this that's the problem, its the mindset that says its correct to do so.

I can imagine many Thais honestly saying "Why not ?"

[tomyumchai]

Thais are poor. Falang rich. When Thais go to Falangland, Thais always get charge expensive Falang price. So when Falang in Thailand, they should also pay expensive Falang price. This is the universal law of same same no change. If falang want to pay thai price in thailand, falang should also charge cheaper thai price to thai people while in falangland.

"when thais go to falang land they get charge expensive falang price?" was this written by a thai? when a thai goes to a foreign country they pay the same price as the other people in that country! what youre saying is if we want to pay the same price as thais we have to give a discount to thais if they visit our countries?

if you are a thai then what youve written pretty much explains the thought process of the whole lot of you.........

[Jonmarleesco]

I've been to Thai tourist attractions where they have foolishly expected more than double the Thai rate. Personally, I'm not so enamoured of such attractions as to be prepared any extra, never mind double and more. I simply don't bother. Charge Thais double to visit the likes of the UK's Madam Tussaud's - Thailand's can't compare - or Legoland, and they would be ranting about blatant discrimination, or even racism.

Competition in Asia, never mind globally, is hotting up, and for visitors who quite possibly are financially stretched. I doubt Thailand can afford the luxury of pissing off too many tourists.

[Ling Kae]

It isn't based on skin colour. If you have a Thai driving licence, work permit or tax certificate to show you pay Thai income tax, you pay the Thai price.

If you're white they ask for higher price.

If you're Asian they ask for lower price.

Sure if you're white you can show ID, but if you're Asian no ID required.

If this wasn't racist, they would ask everyone, Asian, Black and white for ID.

This guy is on the money, I 100% agree! It is based on what you look like and if that isn't racist I don't know what is. Thanks for speaking out.

[Ling Kae]

It isn't based on skin colour. If you have a Thai driving licence, work permit or tax certificate to show you pay Thai income tax, you pay the Thai price.

If you're white they ask for higher price.

If you're Asian they ask for lower price.

Sure if you're white you can show ID, but if you're Asian no ID required.

If this wasn't racist, they would ask everyone, Asian, Black and white for ID.

Interesting - where did you get that idea...it is of course completely untrue.

Bullsh!t, your comment is so out of touch it isn't funny.

Car load of 3 Thais and 1 Philipino turn up to a National Park (all look thai) no questions asked. 20 baht each

then

Same car turns up with 3 Thais and one white farang, 60 baht for the 3 Thais and 200 baht for the farang. Do you think this is fair and right? This is a racial discrimination at it's best and this is why Thailand is still a 3rd world country.

[balo]

Dual-pricing is scaring tourists away.

definitely.

Maybe not the first-time visitors, but on the internet and among friends itself speaks around.

- Lumpini Thai boxing: +1000 Baht

- King Palace: +500 Baht

- Wat Pho: +100 Baht

- Siam Ocean: +500 Baht

- Cable Car at Phra Nakhon: +150 Baht

- Lanta Marine National Park: +360 Baht

- Summer Palace Ayutthaya: + 70 Baht

- Museum Siam Bangkok: + 200 Baht

- National Parks: + 100 – 300 Baht

- Massage Parlours: + 500 – 1000 Baht surcharge

- restaurants with two price lists

- and everyone else who try to rip you off here.

+ scams

+ crime

+ political instability

+ travel safety

+ rip off culture

So the negative image effect will in long-term harm the tourism.

I'm pretty sure that many tourists, instead of making a second visit, opt for another destination!

I have never experienced a restaurant here with two price lists ?

Where do you find them ?

Here on the islands (Koh Samui, Koh Phangan, Koh Tao) there are many small restaurants with two menus.

One in Thai and one in English.

The prices on it are not the same!

I would never eat in a place like that , I never visit tourist traps anyway so maybe that's why I've never seen this before.

I would be very upset and complain to the owner, they would never get away with it in Bangkok.

Edited September 4, 2014 by balo

[JetsetBkk]

Oh boy, that escalated quickly - 280 replies in one day.

Yeah. I read half the first page then came to what was the last page. Same old same old. Nothing to see here.

[ChiangraiTony]

In my home country they would be taken to court for racism , everyone pays the same price regardless , it is not hard to do, why Thailand see's fit to separates Thai's from tourists/ outsiders is a baffling topic , keep in mind that derogatory remarks about Thailand at Swampy is mainly on this subject.

In America if your retirement age you can pay less. Talk about age discrimination.

[moobie]

I am often a tourist in Thailand and have been travelling there for over a decade. Most trips extend to months rather than weeks so perhaps I may comment from the point of view of the casual tourist in a random order of thought?

Firstly, most tourists do not know about dual-pricing unless they have bothered to commit to some serious research on their trip to Thailand. The same goes for many rules, scams and laws, etc. (I'm an avid news reader and rarely on my travels have I witnessed any tourists reading The Nation, The Bangkok Post, etc. but do see then reading news from their homeland. So I'm guessing an article such as this news item will pass most by.)

Early on in my times out in Thailand it was easily noted how fruit sellers and other food stall holders seemed to raise the rate or lower the portion size when serving a customer or the foreigner with Thai friend combo. I avoided this by then only buying in supermarkets, shops, restaurants, etc. with fixed prices shown. More surprising however was whilst on a trip to Pattaya with a Thai girlfriend we went to "Ripley's - believe it or Not" and when I later perused the ticket/receipt noted that there was a differing charge for each of us based on Nationality.

Anyhow, whilst the above mentions dual-pricing I do not think this is an issue in the drop in tourist numbers. It may amaze the Thai's but there is a big world outside of their borders and it has its share of problems both micro and macro. I'm from the UK and although I work in a well paying industry I look around and can see that the situation in the EU is still causing financial strife and uncertainty which in turn has driven wages down here as well as causing uncertainty. For many, a holiday may be within grasp but with a curtailed duration or budget. Hence the popularity of the "all-inclusive" holiday sector where costs are paid up front and extras as per the budget will allow.

I may be very wrong here but part of Thailand's past attraction was that it was a low cost travel destination. The dream once sold of a beach shack on pristine sands, etc. Perhaps that dream did not live up to the reality but it was cheap and could be accommodated, all puns intended. Similarly, scams, dual-pricing, etc. when things were cheap then these were easier to put up with. Now however, the prices in bars are often on par, if not more, than my drinking dens in the North East of England and the food often far in excess. (Incidentally, in a good many of these places I pay the "mates rates" discounted price - but then I'm a regular customer ;-> ) Certainly, I sense a good deal less Sanook in the Thai people - or maybe that was my once rose-tinted glasses?

In general I can only hypothesis why tourism is on the decline but I can say that when paying a price a person will expect a standard of service/quality to be met and when this fails to meet that expectation few in this day of social media hold back. And perhaps Thailand has stagnated whilst other places have either emerged of balanced out the expectations to once make them a more preferable destination? Who really knows..........?

Edited September 4, 2014 by moobie

[BKKdreaming]

I went to the worn out "Dream World" last year.......Yes there were 2 prices , but GF stayed in line , paid Thai price for all of us ( OK , I really paid) and we walked in with no questions .

But would i have been so pissed off if I paid more that I cancelled the trip ? NOPE

ohh and the price was in Thai.....sneaky B-stards

and I was the only Falang I saw there all day ,

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

""It isn't based on skin colour. If you have a Thai driving licence, work permit or tax certificate to show you pay Thai income tax, you pay the Thai price.""

Seems to be different policies at different national parks, tried coming into Khao Panueng Thung, Keang Krachan National park a couple of times with my Thai driving licence for the Thai price but had to pay the Farang price every time, at other parks I got the Thai price with my Thai driving license and WP, so I am not sure what the rules are any longer, maybe its up to the officer at the gate.

[khrab]

The Nat Park on Koh Lanta, which is a shithole and waste of money, refused to let me pay the normal park entrance fee I pay at every other park.

I not only got ripped off, but was VERY disappointed in the park... never going there again and I would not recommend it to anyone.

Also, I have refused to pay at the temple on Doi Suthep 2 times now. I tell the thief at the top to call the police and just walked in.

I will not go there any more.

Maybe time to start hanging out more in Indonesia.

Doi Suthep is another shithole now.

[Thai at Heart]

Many Thais think its OK to be racist until they get tarred with a stereotypical brush about Thais.

It does leave a certain deliciousness when someone wants their cake but can't eat it. And Thailand's cake is getting smaller by the day.

Will they change. Not until its too late I fear. Principles have been lost long ago.

[Carioca]

I live by the philosophy, primarily asian, that with good always comes bad, i.e. duality of life. I am always careful about trying to correct others bad behavior as I see it as a part of all of us, of course some more than others. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it. What if Thailand figures out solution is to charge tourists prices for all? Hmmm!

[bkkjames]

I live by the philosophy, primarily asian, that with good always comes bad, i.e. duality of life. I am always careful about trying to correct others bad behavior as I see it as a part of all of us, of course some more than others. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it. What if Thailand figures out solution is to charge tourists prices for all? Hmmm!

There will be less visitors I imagine. Perhaps if they try hard enough, nobody will visit.