Redshirt region to remain under martial law

[whybother]

It is and has been obvious that the military is on the side of the Thai elites.

But suppression only works for a short time and eventually is overthrown leaving more destruction.

It would be much better and even financially beneficial to willingly give people democracy.

But the elites of the world never learn this as they busily try to build walls and protect their material wealth.

Their negative Karma will catch up with them.

We all know, even if you hide your head in the sand and deny the facts, that the Red Shirts are the majority of the Thai population.

It certainly seemed to be financially beneficial for Thaksin.

[smedly]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Sooner or later you will have to lift martial law in those areas. You think the people will forget? I doubt it.

and what effect has it had on you ? I'll answer for you - zero

and what negative effect has it had on the general population of Thailand ? I'll answer for you - Zero

go ply your useless rhetoric somewhere else - you're like a broken record

The truth really bothers you doesn't it. You know what I say is true. You just can't accept it.

your version of the truth doesn't bother me at all - nuff said

[Eric Loh]

Sooner or later you will have to lift martial law in those areas. You think the people will forget? I doubt it.

2 coups; one military and the other judiciary said you are right. Both post coups election resulted in landslide victory for the Northern mandate.

[whybother]

Sooner or later you will have to lift martial law in those areas. You think the people will forget? I doubt it.

2 coups; one military and the other judiciary said you are right. Both post coups election resulted in landslide victory for the Northern mandate.

I think you need to check the results of the 2007 "post coup" election. PPP didn't even win a majority of seats, let alone get a "landslide victory".

The 2011 election was hardly "post (judicial) coup", being 2.5 years after PPP were banned, with PTP choosing to go to parliament to elect a new PM, and unfortunately for them, Abhisit was elected.

[billsmart]

No real need for comment on this headline. It already says it all...

Edited September 8, 2014 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[whybother]

No real need for comment on this headline. It already says it all...

Actually, it doesn't say it all. It doesn't say anything about the rest of Thailand staying under martial law.

[wandasloan]

Better safe than sorry. Martial law may not be palatable for some but it sure beats having red shirts causing trouble and burning stuff.

Hmm, beat me to it. I was just about to post to ask if anyone believed this propaganda hooey?

Also does anyone remember when the prime minister was kicked out for appointing the brother-in-law of her former sister-in-law to a major post? I guess she should have just appointed her brother, because that seems perfectly all right. Thank goodness for the army-ordered end to hypocrisy!

It is and has been obvious that the military is on the side of the Thai elites.

But suppression only works for a short time and eventually is overthrown leaving more destruction.

It would be much better and even financially beneficial to willingly give people democracy.

But the elites of the world never learn this as they busily try to build walls and protect their material wealth.

Their negative Karma will catch up with them.

We all know, even if you hide your head in the sand and deny the facts, that the Red Shirts are the majority of the Thai population.

I might argue a couple of fine points there, including your last claim. But yes, in general, you are so right. It's not even that the military coup is good/bad/fine/horrible. The problem is that the military coup certainly isn't solving and by all its public plans and project is not about to solve ANY problem about the political division - which is exactly the same now as it was on the afternoon of May 22, and is not about to change by any action of the military.

Lots of people think it's terrific to have a ceasefire, an armistice, and I can see that. Those people are realistic. They don't want children and other living things gunned down in central Bangkok, and even a military coup and a timeout is better than that.

But there are people who think the military is about to put this whole red-yellow amaart-prai situation to bed with a bunch of reforms and the 19th constitution in 82 years at gunpoint. And those people are crazy.

In a world where Afghanistan can have an election, it is also crazy to say that Thailand is so stupid and backwards and violent that it can't even vote. At LEAST be honest: There's no election because the people with guns and the people who support the people with guns know they haven't a chance of winning an election. And if/when they present the country with a fixed, rigged election where they win, they won't get away with it.

So kicking the political division down the road does nothing positive except postpone what is absolutely going to happen anyhow - and in the process arguably making things even more divided and worse and assuring the eventual outcome will be even more violent and terrible than it might have been if the army did its job and protected the country's borders from foreign invasion while adults were left to sort out a very difficult situation that has to be sorted out anyhow.

The military, as you say, has selfish ulterior motives, as do many of its supporters. Its current members, cronies and toadies will gain a lot of lucre in the next year or three and some may avoid paying the piper in the future. But the piper will be paid. There are various ways the coup and martial law may end, but the point is they WILL end and the only question on that is how painful it will be for the supporters.

Gen Prayuth and his crony-brother are very worried about watermelon soldiers and foresee martial law for a long time until they "unify" the army again. That's too bad because while martial law ensures the Chan-ocha brothers and other nepotism groups sleep well every night as their troops hunt down the "red army" and scapegoats, it's really, really bad for Thailand.

.

Edited September 8, 2014 by wandasloan

[Eric Loh]

Sooner or later you will have to lift martial law in those areas. You think the people will forget? I doubt it.

2 coups; one military and the other judiciary said you are right. Both post coups election resulted in landslide victory for the Northern mandate.

I think you need to check the results of the 2007 "post coup" election. PPP didn't even win a majority of seats, let alone get a "landslide victory".

The 2011 election was hardly "post (judicial) coup", being 2.5 years after PPP were banned, with PTP choosing to go to parliament to elect a new PM, and unfortunately for them, Abhisit was elected.

No need to check. I just refer to Wiki which state that " PPP claimed absolute majority of the 480 seats".

Ahbisit elected by a coerced coalition of parties. One of this coalition revealed the intimidation factor in electing AV, Hardly a people choice and that was fully exposed when "PT won a majority with 265 seats". Again a qoute from Wiki.

[ginjag]

Well that's bad-news, for the Peoples Democratic Republic of Lanna, and all those who support it !

But good news for the many non-Reds in my area, who have been living with less propaganda & repression, for the past few months.

Martial law will however need to be lifted, before the next election, to permit normal campaigning to start again.

Election.....what election?

Keep up with the news.

[noahvail]

[quote name="tbthailand" post="8358740" timestamp=

you do know which group has been the most violent and killed the most people in Thailand, don't you?

Tip: color is neither red, nor yellow.

Yep, I think I know. It's the drivers of buses, trucks, cars, and motorcycles. [insert sarcasm smiley]

[whybother]

No need to check. I just refer to Wiki which state that " PPP claimed absolute majority of the 480 seats".

Ahbisit elected by a coerced coalition of parties. One of this coalition revealed the intimidation factor in electing AV, Hardly a people choice and that was fully exposed when "PT won a majority with 265 seats". Again a qoute from Wiki.

A quote from "wiki"?? Just because "PPP claimed absolute majority" doesn't make it so. Maybe you can provide a link to this "wiki"?

Try checking the "wiki" of the 2007 election which shows that the PPP didn't get an "absolute majority".

[billsmart]

No real need for comment on this headline. It already says it all...

Actually, it doesn't say it all. It doesn't say anything about the rest of Thailand staying under martial law.

I thought I read somewhere that martial law has been lifted in most of Thailand. I don't see much evidence of it up here, but then I never did see much evidence of it. The only evidence I've seen is some TV stations are interrupted about 6P every night to give the latest NCPO report...

Edited September 8, 2014 by metisdead

[whybother]

No real need for comment on this headline. It already says it all...

Actually, it doesn't say it all. It doesn't say anything about the rest of Thailand staying under martial law.

I thought I read somewhere that martial law has been lifted in most of Thailand. I don't see much evidence of it up here, but then I never did see much evidence of it. The only evidence I've seen is some TV stations are interrupted about 6P every night to give the latest NCPO report...

I thought it must have been too, but there is this from Friday.

NCPO unlikely to lift martial law as opposition remains

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/757763-ncpo-unlikely-to-lift-martial-law-as-opposition-remains/

For some reason, someone wanted to get people thinking that it had been lifted elsewhere.

[wandasloan]

I might have missed the news, but is ANY region having martial law removed? If not, why single out the "red shirt region"?

If anyone thinks martial law has anything at all to do with the red shirts, there is probably an awful lot of stuff (s)he is equally unaware of. There is a terrific reason Gen Sarit has neither mentioned the red-shirt threat and has refused to pull down martial law. And if you think Gen Sarit and the junta are so weak that they can't deal quickly with any possible red-shirt movement that might occur in the future, then you also don't know much about what is going on.

Gen Sarit needs martial law for dealing with actual, armed threats to his regime, by trained, armed people. They may be wearing red shirts under their uniform, but unlikely. They pose an actual threat, or at least Gen Sarit thinks they do and I'm very inclined to think he's right.

I thought I read somewhere that martial law has been lifted in most of Thailand. I don't see much evidence of it up here, but then I never did see much evidence of it. The only evidence I've seen is some TV stations are interrupted about 6P every night to give the latest NCPO report...

My crystal ball does not work on ASDL, but I think you're probably remembering the curfew? It was lifted bit by bit and then nationally. Martial law is still in effect everywhere as of this minute.

.

Edited September 8, 2014 by wandasloan

[whybother]

I might have missed the news, but is ANY region having martial law removed? If not, why single out the "red shirt region"?

If anyone thinks martial law has anything at all to do with the red shirts, there is probably an awful lot of stuff (s)he is equally unaware of. There is a terrific reason Gen Sarit has neither mentioned the red-shirt threat and has refused to pull down martial law. And if you think Gen Sarit and the junta are so weak that they can't deal quickly with any possible red-shirt movement that might occur in the future, then you also don't know much about what is going on.

Gen Sarit needs martial law for dealing with actual, armed threats to his regime, by trained, armed people. They may be wearing red shirts under their uniform, but unlikely. They pose an actual threat, or at least Gen Sarit thinks they do and I'm very inclined to think he's right.

.

I think the main reason Gen. Sarit hasn't mentioned the red-shirt threat is because he died in 1963.

[Fat Haggis]

anyone else notice this new, recent line of "defense" from the junta that martial law is not really a problem since people can still (in this case) "buy things normally"?

There was the other poll saying that martial law is not a problem for people.

And all the while the junta claiming that they still need martial law - apparently because of some external or internal threats. The threats are always rather vague and mysterious.

Can you have it both ways? Life is 'normal' and 'it's dangerous out there!'

As soon as it could be made 100% sure that Thailand would forever be freed from the actions of the violent red shirts, I'm sure an vast majority of Thais would ask for the ML to be lifted. Maybe you with your red comrade friends here could positively contribute to the creation of such a safe situation, was it just by what you write on TV for a start. But when I read your: 'The threats are always rather vague and mysterious', I, alas, guess there will long be no floods in Thailand anymore by the time that can happen. As there was nothing vague or mysterious about the violences of 2009/2010 and of 2013/2014, that's all the point, but, very sadly, never ever IMO will you and the other, present and future, members of the propaganda brigade have the will nor the ability to admit it! And that's dramatic, for the red shirts' movement (which could, should play an important, peacefull, role in creating the future of this country, wthout the Shins and consorts), and for Thailand (by the absence of, any, truly 'democratic' organisation for the citizens to express their personal opinions through in politics).

you do know which group has been the most violent and killed the most people in Thailand, don't you?

Tip: color is neither red, nor yellow.

You are pathetic with your red shirt propaganda and non sense. Martial law is cleaning Thailand from low life thugs and bugs.

But is it really doing these things? Jetski Operators are still ripping off tourists, Taxi drivers are still ripping off tourists, hustlers are still on the beaches... these are some of the things that were highlighted in the purge, it seems to have died down, or isn't being followed up on.. yes it's early days, but Martial Law is certainly NOT stopping any freedom of movement, as there's not enough checkpoints i these areas to do this, the borders are still porus as well, I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that a determined " troublemaker" can still move freely Region to Region within Thailand, almost with impunity.

It's a catch 22 for the RTA, stop everything and check everyones papers and ID= Good procedures, the flip side, it doesn't look great for the tourist industry, of which Thailand still depends on quite significantly.

I have been reading with interest that it's questionable how much support there actually is for the PTP now, with many posters here saying it's down, maybe as low as 7% so, if that's the case, the Junta are actually discriminating and punishing the other 93% in these areas for what? If there really is a peace and reconciliation effort desire from the Junta, by lifting Martial Law over most of the country, and isoloating the red areas, and maintainging Martial Law, there's no reconciliation there at all, it's like a mass punishment, and that's how many people outside of the political scene will view this. In any peace plan you have to offer that olive branch, there are people here who see this as another way of suppression, whether it's for the right or wrong reasons.

Either keep Martial Law going countrywide, or lift it countrywide, until it can be lifted completely all over the country, that way there can be no accusations of power abuse, victimisation, blah blah blah..

[wandasloan]

I think the main reason Gen. Sarit hasn't mentioned the red-shirt threat is because he died in 1963.

Oh nuts, I ALWAYS get these two mixed up.

Nah, not really. But I refuse to explain jokes.

.

[ikke]

Sooner or later you will have to lift martial law in those areas. You think the people will forget? I doubt it.

and what effect has it had on you ? I'll answer for you - zero

and what negative effect has it had on the general population of Thailand ? I'll answer for you - Zero

go ply your useless rhetoric somewhere else - you're like a broken record

Zero, I bed you think the same as the Junta, economy means the people can still buy anything hahaha....

Economy in Thailand is in fast down spiral and all Thai people will feel the effect !!!

Edited September 8, 2014 by ikke

[NoshowJones]

Better safe than sorry. Martial law may not be palatable for some but it sure beats having red shirts causing trouble and burning stuff.

Well said Gerry.

Nobody wants these low-life guttersnipes back on the streets.

I agree with you entirely, but neither do we want Sutheps mob on the streets, affecting peoples lives and livelihood.

[me313]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Sooner or later you will have to lift martial law in those areas. You think the people will forget? I doubt it.

and what effect has it had on you ? I'll answer for you - zero

and what negative effect has it had on the general population of Thailand ? I'll answer for you - Zero

go ply your useless rhetoric somewhere else - you're like a broken record

Wow, " useless rhetoric" for having empathy for Red Shirts. The vitriol directed at any opposition to the newly prevailing order which, with quick and fast reproach quells any opposition, trickles down from the ex-pats, or is it the other way around? Did the silencing of opposition come from the foreigners who invest in thailand and only want to get their investments at cheapest cost, so thus a military style government with absolute suppression of opposition, sort of like Il Duce and that mustached guy from Austria, the 4th Reich come to Thailand? What hate. How convenient for investors living here, far too convenient. The hate is reminiscent of a longed for "paradise" for the broken cross crowd. I'm sure to get a lot of hate responses but I don't read the hate responses on this forum, all you volks out there, so don't bother...

[tigermonkey]

anyone else notice this new, recent line of "defense" from the junta that martial law is not really a problem since people can still (in this case) "buy things normally"?

There was the other poll saying that martial law is not a problem for people.

And all the while the junta claiming that they still need martial law - apparently because of some external or internal threats. The threats are always rather vague and mysterious.

Can you have it both ways? Life is 'normal' and 'it's dangerous out there!'

Martial law doesn't affect your normal daily life, unless of course your normal daily life consists of protesting.

You are quite wrong about when you say "martial law doesn't affect your normal daily life". We have lived for years in a very quiet farming village in Changwat Lamphun, and the fabric and feeling of life here has changed noticeably since the imposition of martial law. When martial law was declared, most in the village were puzzled as to why. There had been no protests or disruptive behaviour locally. Yes, many in the village supported and voted for PTP, but also many did not. That was freedom of choice, without threat or fear.

Since then the village has been controlled by a gnawing fear of what will occur next. We frequently see army personnel checking things out locally. One incident which contributed to this was a neighbour being ordered by army personnel to remove a picture of Yingluck, which she had hanging in her shop - it had been there for years, and surely was not a threat to "peace and happiness". She obeyed the order to remove the picture, and also removed the picture of the King and Queen from her shop.

We occasionally go out for a nice BBQ meal at a nearby town - a "normal" enjoyable treat. Twice while returning from dinner, we have been stopped by army personnel, complete with assault rifles, ordered out of the car, while the car was thoroughly searched. Then ordered back into the car at gunpoint. For me, the experience since the imposition of martial law feels less like "normal daily life" and more like Iraq.

Were you polite and cooperative when asked to exit the vehicle, or did you protest and run your mouth about who you are and where you'd been. The Thai military probably has orders to be polite and civil to Thais and foreigners to whom they come into contact. They usually conduct searches only with good reason. On the few occasions we have been through a vehicle check, the personnel have been most polite.

Getting shunted back into your car at gunpoint sounds more like Lebanon than Lamphun.

Yes I was "polite and cooperative", as were the others with me, when ordered out of the vehicle - we were not "asked to exit the vehicle" on each occasion. We were simply told "get out", neither politely nor maliciously, but matter of factly, as if part of their routine. We were all asked for ID, and notes were made about the IDs.The only other conversation on either side were words to the effect of " get in - go home". Some small courtesy and explanation would have been nice, and made it less like Iraq, or as you say "Lebanon".

Edited September 8, 2014 by tigermonkey

[moe666]

My girlfriend is happy with martial law as she doesn't have to listen to her boss play red TV all day long. When the army took over she told her boss som nam na. We live in CM.

[Sena Dave]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Sooner or later you will have to lift martial law in those areas. You think the people will forget? I doubt it.

and what effect has it had on you ? I'll answer for you - zero

and what negative effect has it had on the general population of Thailand ? I'll answer for you - Zero

go ply your useless rhetoric somewhere else - you're like a broken record

Apart from crushing freedom of speech an peoples civil rights to protest , nothing.

[halloween]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Sooner or later you will have to lift martial law in those areas. You think the people will forget? I doubt it.

and what effect has it had on you ? I'll answer for you - zero

and what negative effect has it had on the general population of Thailand ? I'll answer for you - Zero

go ply your useless rhetoric somewhere else - you're like a broken record

Apart from crushing freedom of speech an peoples civil rights to protest , nothing.

You'll live. So will those who may have been killed if the political violence hadn't stopped. But what's a few lives compared to............

[Sena Dave]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Sooner or later you will have to lift martial law in those areas. You think the people will forget? I doubt it.

and what effect has it had on you ? I'll answer for you - zero

and what negative effect has it had on the general population of Thailand ? I'll answer for you - Zero

go ply your useless rhetoric somewhere else - you're like a broken record

Apart from crushing freedom of speech an peoples civil rights to protest , nothing.

You'll live. So will those who may have been killed if the political violence hadn't stopped. But what's a few lives compared to............

fair comment, I'm just not impressed with this "Lovely Race the Romans" stuff. Yes things are very much quieter , but it was not the elected Government , causing the actual disturbances imo . At the end of the day a Democratically elected Government was overthrown , This corruption "Spin" was the excuse , but they are all as bad as each other

[kimamey]

Many places in the North East, and Issan especially around Korat, the Army presence has been minimal, so Martial Law is no big deal to the Thais up there, I think I seen maybe 2 Checkpoints closer to Saraburi, maybe a Regional thing, other than that, the Military hasn't been out in force, it has looked and felt the same with regards to atmoshpherics as it did same time last year.

Not much here in Mahasarakham. After the coup the police checkpoint on the road from Borabue was joined by one the other side manned by the army. Now they just move cones from one side to the other and read the paper and play with their phones. There's not even the police checking helmets and paperwork now as far as I can see.

It will be better when they can lift restrictions such as they are but apart from the few that really want to protest I don't think it's making much difference. People have to go to work to provide for their families and that's probably the most important thing for the majority.

[whybother]

fair comment, I'm just not impressed with this "Lovely Race the Romans" stuff. Yes things are very much quieter , but it was not the elected Government , causing the actual disturbances imo . At the end of the day a Democratically elected Government was overthrown , This corruption "Spin" was the excuse , but they are all as bad as each other

Just as in 2006, an elected government wasn't overthrown. In both cases they were caretaker governments.

[wandasloan]

Just as in 2006, an elected government wasn't overthrown. In both cases they were caretaker governments.

I'm not sure which universe this applies, but in the Thai universe there is no such thing as a "caretaker government" - you could look it up in both the former constitutions you seem to be striving to be picayune about.

It's a very original idea that a "caretaker" (your incorrect word) council of ministers can't also be an elected council of ministers at the same time. Do you have to pick just one choice in your opinion? Both can't exist at once? Why not? Do you have a constitutional cite? I thought not.

Or why not just face the facts that the army broke the law and seized power? Who cares from whom? Their action can't get any more legal or further-illegal depending on a choice of words or an anal comment.

.

[whybother]

Just as in 2006, an elected government wasn't overthrown. In both cases they were caretaker governments.

I'm not sure which universe this applies, but in the Thai universe there is no such thing as a "caretaker government" - you could look it up in both the former constitutions you seem to be striving to be picayune about.

It's a very original idea that a "caretaker" (your incorrect word) council of ministers can't also be an elected council of ministers at the same time. Do you have to pick just one choice in your opinion? Both can't exist at once? Why not? Do you have a constitutional cite? I thought not.

Or why not just face the facts that the army broke the law and seized power? Who cares from whom? Their action can't get any more legal or further-illegal depending on a choice of words or an anal comment.

.

Check out Section 181 of the 2007 constitution. It doesn't explicitly say "caretaker", but that's what it means.

Section 181. The outgoing Council of Ministers shall remain in office for carrying out duty until the newly appointed Council of Ministers takes office, but in case of vacation of office under section 180 (2) the Council of Ministers and a Minister is able to carry out any duty as necessary within the following conditions:

(1) refraining from the exercise of power which resulting in the appointment or transfer of government officials holding permanent positions or salaries or of officials of State agency, State enterprise or any enterprise in which the State is a major shareholders or resulting in leaving such persons from the performance of their duties or offices or replacing other persons to replace him except by prior approval of the Election Commission;

(2) refraining from doing an act which resulting in giving of approval to spend budget reserved for emergency or necessity situation except by prior approval of the Election Commission;

(3) refraining from doing an act which resulting in giving approval of work or project or which the forthcoming Council of Ministers may be bound;

(4) refraining from using resources or personnel of State to do an act which may affect the result of a general election, and refraining from the violation of any prohibitions under the rules prescribed by the Election Commission.

In both 2006 an 2014 not only had parliament been dissolved by the PM, elections had failed to produce a result. With no result, there was no elected government.

In no way does that make the coups right, but what they did was overthrow a constitutional stalemate, not an elected government.

[tbthailand]

Sooner or later you will have to lift martial law in those areas. You think the people will forget? I doubt it.

2 coups; one military and the other judiciary said you are right. Both post coups election resulted in landslide victory for the Northern mandate.

I think you need to check the results of the 2007 "post coup" election. PPP didn't even win a majority of seats, let alone get a "landslide victory".

The 2011 election was hardly "post (judicial) coup", being 2.5 years after PPP were banned, with PTP choosing to go to parliament to elect a new PM, and unfortunately for them, Abhisit was elected.

You repeat this :

'The 2011 election was hardly "post (judicial) coup", being 2.5 years after PPP were banned, with PTP choosing to go to parliament to elect a new PM, and unfortunately for them, Abhisit was elected.'

as though it were true.

I recall the PPP turned PTP trying to call elections but getting blocked. The military put together their coalition and voted in Abhisit in a matter of a couple of days. Even the PAD wanted parliament dissolved (but for different reasons). It is not true that the PPP/PTP 'choose' to go to a vote and 'unfortunately' lost. The army put their plan in place once their judges had done their part. It went off like clockwork. Well, except for people finding out about it afterwards.