Oscar Pistorius found guilty of culpable homicide

[webfact]

Oscar Pistorius found guilty of culpable homicide

(BBC) -- South African athlete Oscar Pistorius has been found guilty of culpable homicide after the judge found he killed his girlfriend by mistake.

Judge Thokozile Masipa said the athlete acted "negligently" when he fired shots through a toilet door but in the "belief that there was an intruder".

She said the state had failed to prove he intended to kill Reeva Steenkamp.

He was also found guilty on a charge of negligently handling a firearm that went off in a restaurant.

The BBC's Andrew Harding, in court, says that following the verdicts, Pistorius sat, rubbed his face and slumped briefly forward.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29149581


-- BBC 2014-09-12

[Seastallion]

Weak decision. Flawed prosecution, and slimy crafty defence.

[Basil B]

I think he is probably as guilty as hell.

But as the judge quoted in her summing up "beyond reasonable doubt".

Probably is not "beyond reasonable doubt", the prosecution case was weak, whether due to lack of credible evidence or incompetences I do not know.

But I would rather an guilty person walk free than an innocent person banged up for life, fortunately he has been found guilty on other charges and I hope he will be going down for a long time.

[coma]

Got away with murder. If it were some young black African male he would have been found guilty months ago. Mr Pistorius, you sir are a grub.

[robertthebruce]

Totally agree with all the comments so far.

I watched an interview with one of his previous Girlfriends, the guy is a Psycho , he is a control freak, and I do believe he knew that his Girlfriend was in the bathroom, at the time of the shooting..

She locked the bathroom door ?? Which I find strange in the early hours of the morning...

The guy is guilty as hell.... He deserves what he gets, in time and whatever happens to him in Prison,..

Which I believe is no Holiday Camp in Pretoria....

Poor girl R.I.P. And I feel for her parents it's been hell in earth for them...

I bet they are wishing she had never met him.....

[Basil B]

Granted bail...

And I thought the Thai legal system was crazy...

[Mosha]

The judge is known for tough sentencing. A serial rapist got 200 years.

[uptheos]

I think he is probably as guilty as hell.

But as the judge quoted in her summing up "beyond reasonable doubt".

Probably is not "beyond reasonable doubt", the prosecution case was weak, whether due to lack of credible evidence or incompetences I do not know.

But I would rather an guilty person walk free than an innocent person banged up for life, fortunately he has been found guilty on other charges and I hope he will be going down for a long time.

One other charge involving receiving a firearm that was discharged under the table in a crowded restaurant.

I very much doubt he will be going down for a long time.

[F430murci]

These high profile cases that get media circuses always get unusual, skewed or controversial results. My gut reaction is that this one time "national hero" is an egomaniac suffering from a deep seeded inferiority complex related to his handicap. This results in irrational, jealous and violent behavior in relationships with the opposite sex comprised of women to whom he feels inferior. He definitely has mental and emotional issues and shot that poor woman in a rage.

Ridiculous to compare him to some poor hypothetical black person unless the shooting and circumstances were exactly the same.

Edited September 12, 2014 by F430murci

[Chicog]

He's looking at up to 15 years for the manslaughter charge and 5 for the gun charge.

Not home and dry yet.

[uptheos]

He's looking at up to 15 years for the manslaughter charge and 5 for the gun charge.

Not home and dry yet.

I think if M'Lady had fifteen years in mind, she'd have found a reason from somewhere to deny bail.

[Exsexyman]

There must be a very good chance that the prosecution will appeal, a lot of legal opinion in SA suggesting they would have good grounds. It would appear that M'Lady's interpretation of the charge of dolus eventualis, ie, common law murder, is seriously flawed. This charge applies if the accused knew they MIGHT kill someone, but still went ahead with their course of action. SA legal expert Professor Pierre de Vos stated, 'rejection of this charge cannot be correct. Surely if you shoot several times into a door of a small toilet and know somebody is behind the door, you foresee and accept POSSIBILITY of killing'. In his opinion this should be enough for a conviction of murder. My hunch is that the prosecution will wait until after the sentencing, if he gets of with a light sentence i'm sure there will be an appeal. Rightly so in my opinion.

[robertthebruce]

I cannot believe he got bail.....

Well let's just hope he TOPS himself.....

Still if it was here in Thailand he would be free too go about his daily life...

i.E. The Red bull heir, who seems to have disappeared.......surprise surprise..

How can these People live with themselves knowing what they have done.... ????

[Soutpeel]

A very predictable result, he was never going to get done for premeditated murder from day one, getting convicted of manslaughter was always going to be the verdict, he will not be getting 15 years either, my money is on 3 years, he will do about 18 months and released on good behaviour

[uptheos]

I cannot believe he got bail.....

Well let's just hope he TOPS himself.....

Still if it was here in Thailand he would be free too go about his daily life...

i.E. The Red bull heir, who seems to have disappeared.......surprise surprise..

How can these People live with themselves knowing what they have done.... ????

During apartheid, detention without trial was ruthlessly exploited by the oppressive state to suppress political dissent. The law was a weapon in the apartheid government’s arsenal, used to maintain minority domination and entrench its racist ideology. The value of the presumption of innocence and individual liberty therefore cannot be over-stated in South Africa. Nowhere is this more true than in the case of bail laws, even if at times this upsets a public that seems to forget the risks associated with unnecessary detention before trial and the high cost of it to society at large.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial-why-has-he-been-on-bail-for-the-last-year-9129123.html

[Roadman]

There must be a very good chance that the prosecution will appeal, a lot of legal opinion in SA suggesting they would have good grounds. It would appear that M'Lady's interpretation of the charge of dolus eventualis, ie, common law murder, is seriously flawed. This charge applies if the accused knew they MIGHT kill someone, but still went ahead with their course of action. SA legal expert Professor Pierre de Vos stated, 'rejection of this charge cannot be correct. Surely if you shoot several times into a door of a small toilet and know somebody is behind the door, you foresee and accept POSSIBILITY of killing'. In his opinion this should be enough for a conviction of murder. My hunch is that the prosecution will wait until after the sentencing, if he gets of with a light sentence i'm sure there will be an appeal. Rightly so in my opinion.

Tend to agree.

The judge ruled correctly in not being the higher degree of pre-planned murder, but on the evidence presented not finding a guilty of murder charge seems flawed and I hope the prosecution appeal. There is enough evidence there including his personal traits and other violence behaviors. And I think it is on top what you suggest in the shooting through the door is going to kill, being that the forensic's on the door and bullet path showed that he was shooting at someone he knew was sitting on the toilet. Suspect he lost his cool, went overboard as he had shown in the past and targeted her.

My sympathies as with others are also with her family having to sit through this and see the murder charge being passed over. Even a lesser prison charge under culpable murder is poor justice. What the family have to do now is go back into court and negotiate against the defense what the term of punishment should be. Truly abhorrent.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Roadman

[F430murci]

I dunno about appeals, but I wish someone would beotch slap that whinny little pos.

[MJP]

2-3 years, out in months. Deserves life.

[haybilly]

Totally agree with the majority on here- - so sad to see her parents sitting through his charades.

I thought that Nell made a good case against the twisted sociopath.

[daveAustin]

If thus judge does not send him down (there's no dressing it up, he killed a human being), then she too should be put away.

[Lite Beer]

Oscar Pistorius verdict: Steenkamp family protest

The parents of Reeva Steenkamp say "justice was not served" after South African athlete Oscar Pistorius was acquitted of murdering their daughter.

June and Barry Steenkamp told NBC News of their "disbelief" that the court had believed Pistorius's version of events.

Judge Thokozile Masipa found him guilty of the lesser charge of culpable homicide, saying the state had failed to prove he intended to kill.

Pistorius has been allowed bail ahead of sentencing on 13 October.

Judge Masipa said the athlete had acted "negligently" when he shot his girlfriend through a toilet door, but in the "belief that there was an intruder".

The Paralympic sprinter had strenuously denied murdering Ms Steenkamp after a row on Valentine's Day last year, saying he shot her by mistake.

Read More: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-29184590

-- BBC 2014-09-12

[spidermike007]

Weak decision. Flawed prosecution, and slimy crafty defence.

One might be tempted to conclude that if a defendant is wealthy enough, regardless of his level of guilt, he can buy a legal team, that is morally and ethically bankrupt, which is capable of convincing most judges and/or juries that there is some doubt. A powerful mind can come up with 100 ways to justify any position. Does that make it right? Of course not. These lawyers sold their souls soon after getting their law degrees. They care not one iota where the cash comes from. So, they work Johnnie Cochran style, to get their defendants off, so they are free to commit more crimes later on. Does OJ come to mind? The US justice system is just as broken, and compromised. Of course, not nearly as broken as the Thai system, but pretty close. The South African system is obviously broken. Did anybody doubt his intentions? When was the last time you shot your girlfriend when she was taking a leak? Who else could have been in the bathroom? Duh.

Edited September 13, 2014 by spidermike007

[rickirs]

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There must be a very good chance that the prosecution will appeal, a lot of legal opinion in SA suggesting they would have good grounds. It would appear that M'Lady's interpretation of the charge of dolus eventualis, ie, common law murder, is seriously flawed. This charge applies if the accused knew they MIGHT kill someone, but still went ahead with their course of action. SA legal expert Professor Pierre de Vos stated, 'rejection of this charge cannot be correct. Surely if you shoot several times into a door of a small toilet and know somebody is behind the door, you foresee and accept POSSIBILITY of killing'. In his opinion this should be enough for a conviction of murder. My hunch is that the prosecution will wait until after the sentencing, if he gets of with a light sentence i'm sure there will be an appeal. Rightly so in my opinion.

"Surely if you shoot several times into a door of a small toilet and know somebody is behind the door, you foresee and accept POSSIBILITY of killing'."

Isn't that culpable homicide (aka "murder" or "killing")? It matters not WHO the defendent thinks is the person behind the door, only that a reasonable acting person wold know that firing 4 shots through the door MAY likely kill the person.

The defendent had a legal firearm and training with it. He loaded the firearm and deliberately fired into the door. He also knew the bathroom dimensions and layout such that a shot had a likelihood of hitting a person behind the door. Homicides without direct witnesses, a pattern of prior circumstancial evidence such as open threats to kill or wishing death, or witnesses out of sight hearing altercations between the defendent and deceased makes a quilty verdict beyond a shadow of doubt most difficult and easily overturned. Judges don't like to be overturned; makes them look incompetant.

[lumply]

The State failed to prove his guilt on the charge of murder. He was found guilty on the lesser charge of manslaughter. That's within the law. Period. I doubt that he will serve jail time; maybe a fine and suspended sentence and/or house arrest at his uncles place as he no longer owns property. His firearm licence will be withdrawn of course. Let's just wait and see.

[uptheos]

Nothing will bring Reeva back and her death will forever remain a tragedy for her family.

But the judge did not rule that he killed his girlfriend by mistake. She ruled that the determination of culpable homicide was irrelevant of WHO was behind the door at the moment shots were fired into the door. The "mistake" according to the only witness to the shooting (the defendent) was discovered allgedly after he opened the bathroom door.

The only witness to the shooting was the defendent who claimed he thought it was an intruder behind the door and that Reeva was still in bed; there is no evidence to contradict his alleged belief. The judge had no choice but to side with the defendent's story.

Though not much a consolation as it was not for the Goldman's, culpable homicide does provide grounds for a civil lawsuit against the defendent. Given the young age and her growing popularity as a model, a court judgement for award could be in the millions of dollars. And there is no statue of limitations on collection of such judgement. Just as in the case of O.J. Simpson.

Also, the bathroom window was open which gave weight to his story that he heard a noise like a window opening.

Lots of questions will never be answered.

[Ulic]

A very predictable result, he was never going to get done for premeditated murder from day one, getting convicted of manslaughter was always going to be the verdict, he will not be getting 15 years either, my money is on 3 years, he will do about 18 months and released on good behaviour

I agree with the predictable result but I expect he will get 7-11 years and serve 5-7. South Africa is a beautiful country but everyone is afraid and lives in fear. Hard to find anyone who has not been robbed at knife or gun point. All the homes have razor wire at the top of high walls. I do believe he was in the fog of sleep did fear for his life but his actions were reckless.

[Soutpeel]

A very predictable result, he was never going to get done for premeditated murder from day one, getting convicted of manslaughter was always going to be the verdict, he will not be getting 15 years either, my money is on 3 years, he will do about 18 months and released on good behaviour

I agree with the predictable result but I expect he will get 7-11 years and serve 5-7. South Africa is a beautiful country but everyone

is afraid and lives in fear. Hard to find anyone who has not been robbed at knife or gun point. All the homes have razor wire

at the top of high walls. I do believe he was in the fog of sleep did fear for his life but his actions were reckless.

Having lived under the siege mentality there and carried a firearm for many years is it conceivable that he thought someone had broken in ?

Most certainly been there myself on a couple of occasions, walking around the house in dark in my underpants with a drawn firearm, but at the same time its equally likely that they had an argument, she locked herself in the bathroom, wouldn't let him in, so he got his firearm and let rip at the bathroom door, knowing full well she was in there.

At the end of the day only two people know the truth of what happened, and one of those is dead

[vogie]

The judge is known for tough sentencing. A serial rapist got 200 years.

Yes but with good behaviour he will be released after only 175 years

[DiamondKing]

Got away with murder. If it were some young black African male he would have been found guilty months ago. Mr Pistorius, you sir are a grub.

pretty sick of people like this that always bring race into any argument PATHETIC

[Geordie59]

Another celeb gets away with murder. Just how many times do you have to shoot through a door to intend to kill the person behind the door? Obviously more than 4.